Why do martials even try?
You cannot compete with the infinite powers of the cosmos you silly rubes.
All you're good for is being our meatshield at low levels and our pack horse at higher ones.
Now stand aside while I resolve this enounter then teleport to my private demiplane to have sex with my harem of succubi all before you've even rolled initiative.
Feels good to be a caster master race.
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>martial wat do
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Sorry Greg, but we're playing 4e. That shit doesn't fly anymore.
Honestly these faggots hate casters for the same reason they hate elves, because they're not 'manly' like dwarves and humans, aka obnoxious manchildren
>muh manliness
You're playing D&D for fucks sake. I'm guessing you're not exactly an alpha male to begin with.
I like casters very much, I just think it's stupid trying to "completely reasonable and real life bound fighters"* in a world of Dragons, Hydras, Orcs and Beholders.
*Mainly because they aren't. At high levels fighters just jump from the top of the Evil Tower of Ominousity because it's faster than walking the stairs.
Did you get banned for the "d20 sucks" threads so you are now spamming these?
Dear casterfag,
I know it's hard to grasp such harsh truth for a mind as primitive and delusional as yours, but yours passionate masturbation to the worst classes in the worst edition of one of the worse RPGs on the market won't in fact make any other player envious in the slightest.
You just picked up the cheap cheese because 1) you can't be assed to really roleplay or use actual wits to resolve encounters, 2) you lack the dedication and patience to master any playstile that differs from "I have a keyboard of win buttons and will gloat and feel smart about it", and 3) you sure as hell are too much of a whiny bitch to tolerate leaving any other player any trace of a spotlight.
So, what can I say to you? Have fun with your phallic hats and vibrating wands and turgid staves, and keep repeating the same pun about the fighter's greatsword being 'compensating for something', just to remark how witty you are. If the other players still tolerate you, they clearly deserve your cancerous company. As for all us other players and GM's out there, we're not going to miss you, your pathetic wizard or your caster-suprematist magical realms.
Also stop shitposting because holy shit am I tired to see the same idiotic thread popping up every day just like acne on your fat face.
Billy, this is Anima, sorry James is btter than you at combat but that's how Technicians work.
Stop pretending you don't enjoy these threads martialcuck.
You post in them every single time.
Martials are masochistic. They love the abuse really.
*5e
>OP makes fun of martials while playing 3.5 and PF
>I'm laughing at OP because I'm playing AD&D and you're most powerful spells take enough time for a martial to get a full attack on you, and if you get hit your spell is wasted, you've got a shitty armor class, and you've got D4 hp per level.
>
It's better, but casters can still obsolete the skill system with a couple of level 1 spell slots and a cantrip. Also, fuck bounded accuracy (more specifically, fuck how 5e uses it)
Pretty sure my martial can kill your caster because ot top of moving fast as fuck (having even punce and tekeports) and dealing enough damage to kill monsters several levels above me in one hit I have a feature that makes me go first, even on surprise rounds. So omae wa mou shindeiru
Ah, by the way, I see invisible and other shit
Bounded accuracy fucks martials so hard, no because to hit and damage but because secondary stuff like jumping, lifting, etc
Psst - we're playing Anima now.
Role for anal circumference.
>Pretty sure my martial can kill your caster
>A round to prepare then we roll initiatives
No, you're dead, sorry life is unfair. I go first, I blow my load and you die.
Most of my problem comes from the fact that 8 stat no proficiency and 20 stat full proficiency is only 12 different, so odds are 60% better between a babbling incompetent and a max-level master. Only with expertise does this become a more reasonable 18 difference, but most people hardly get 4 proficiencies, much less expertise. Of course, one of the classes that gets expertise and buckets of skills is a full caster, because fuck you.
>this guy
You're funny dude. Tell me more about how a martial stands a chance against a caster in D&D. I could use a good laugh. There's literally nothing a fighter can do that a wizard can't just laugh off.
>not having everything prepared and having contingency spells activate for every possible situation before rolling for initiative.
No, you're dead, sorry life is unfair. You're dead before you get to go.
what spells can obsolete the skill system?
The contrary cos martials are the only one with STR.
Psions and Sorcerers can be rather fun to play, simpy because you can't do everything.
Even if you can get godlike in some things you need to make commitments and you need to plan.
And yet you an always be blindsided.
I know that most people consider tier 2 op garbage, but there's some serious fun to be had on it (tier 1 is one man party tier, not good for cooperative games).
It took me like 5 minutes to look for an scroll of antymagic field.
Like I said, I go first, teleport and deal more than enough damage to kill you. This was a 1vs1 no? I win. I also ca fly and become invisible, all of this without magic items.
>tfw your group's casterfag joins the FantasyCraft group
Here's a replacement for Survival, Medicine and Animal Handling, plus some damage.
The best part is that a Druid can completely change their spell list after a long rest, so if they're not ready today, they will be tomorrow.
Most people who play tabletops aren't exactly prime human specimens
So dork, your idea of awesomeness is silly white globes and hugeass sleeves?
I will resolve this conundrum by playing literally any balanced system
OP, listen to this man .
The answer is GURPS, btw
>play with normies
>our spellcasters are total bros
>blaster casters who mop up mooks while the fitemans beat on the big dudes
>support bros who heal and buff their allies between bouts of smacking up skeletons with a mace
>most of the super cheese bullshit in the game gets ignored
>casters tend to be clever and pragmatic but aren't huge asses about it
It's almost like the problem is nerds.
>
You nailed it
this tbqh.
If i have to choose between a group of normies and a group of nerds, i'll choose normies.
>playing druid in 5e
...
3.5 is balanced on the assumption that casters will blast and clerics will healbot.
It's also balanced on the assumption that any given party has a bunch of roles covered (heal, trapfinding, lockpicking, partyface, etc). But they give casters tools to cover those roles in case another character isn't avaiable.
The problem is when people realize that covering those other roles is better than blasting/healing
>fist time pkaying this system
>noob picks druid ans bear
>another noob picks monk
>guess who had an awful time?
Being an asshole isnt the only reason why this system is flawed
Only casters can use scrolls
Well, Druid has class features stronger than most other classes.
Full Caster + A pet fighter better than the fighter + can become a fighter better than the figther
Nope, UMD, and you can get it as class skill with the correct feat/trait
>what is Use Magic Device
>tfw low intellect mongoloid, so can't tap into the secrets of the multiverse
Just end me now famalam
Well, monk is also broken but from the other side of the spectrum
The background that gives survival, also gives you autofood.
Survival let you have safe travels
Survival let you go around monsters and dangers.
Survival let you track.
Medicine is for asserting an injury, poison, cause of death. Effective healing in D&D has always been magical until 4e.
Animal Handling: duh you are a druid. Plus animal friendship requires a save and only works to not be attacked by it.
Gonna repost this now since it seems like this thread is here to stay. Doesn't yet have the edit suggested in the previous thread.
Yeah, lots of tricks that don't sinergize, aren't strong enough, come too late to be useful and are sometimes contraditory.
>Take the spell book alway
> Laughs in Cleric
>Laughts in sorcerer
Did he face the might of Hydra Martial Artist or Soldier/Shinobi Knife Fighter?
And most of their stuff can be rendered moot with a 1st level spell or ring once you reach 2000 gold pieces
Here you go, not the best edit but it does it's job
Would've preferred keeping "It's never been a problem at our table," but this is still nice.
I'll take my own stab at it and post it here when I'm done.
...
That's part of why I like 5e so much. Going by the 3.5 tier system, most classes fall between tiers 2-4, with much fewer outliers.
Wizard and Bard are the only Tier 2 classes, and that's due to having a handful of broken spells. Armies of skeletobs, simulacrum+wish, Forcecage, True polymorph shenanigans. It's a rather short list, but it does give them quite a few nukes.
The only tier 4 classes I'd say would be Ranger and a handful of the weaker subclasses like 4 elements monk.
Everything else fits pretty solidly into tier 3.
And the best thing about this is spells are no longer a direct correlation to power. A rogue is probably going to be more useful than a Sorcerer, Ranger and 4elements monk aren't that great despite getting spells.
Really if you gave Ranger and Monk a few buffs and got rid of most of the high-level spell exploits, things would be great.
Yeah that one's better than mine
Didn't ranger get a buff in Unearthed Arcana?
And someone made a pretty good Wot4E monk homebrew in the 5e general
Yeah, I think the Unearthed Arcana ranger solves a lot of their issues. I haven't looked at that 4elem monk fix, but I wouldn't be surprised if it resolves that as well.
Really, the big things are just those few Bard and Wizard exploits, and those are really simple to fix by just banning or adding an extra restriction to a handful of spells.
I saved it, here you go
Not sure how good it is, I just saved it without looking at it because "hey Wot4E fix, can't be worse than what's in the PHB"
I fight because no one should have that power. Because even in failure, my death can move others.
I fight because there is no other way. I fight because i must.
...
Hmm...they made water whip a bonus action, which is good, and they also seemed to make Ki costs more reasonable. There also seems to be more utility and variety there.
I'd probably want to see if in play to be sure, but it seems nicely done.
Because the casterfag was any better?
I'm pretty sure both sides were being intentionally overdramatic parodies of the normal fan of the role, I know I was.
Elven Eternal Blades are one of the most dope martials in 3.5. They are like meat blenders of the elven people.
Okay but casters usually end up getting in more fucked up situations than fighters because they're arrogant and are dealing with forces way greater than themselves.
Casters are powerful but some others prefer mundane stability.
I think we can all agree that mages and fighters are at least better than clerics, though, because neither has to suck some big entity's dick to self-actualize.
You go first, teleport, his contingent spells activate and you die in a lake of acid.
There's no avoiding it m8. Even in AD&D, once mages get upper mid-range spells encounters practically revolve around the casters duking it out and fighters are just little guys running around. Rogues can at least be annoying if they have tons of invisibility potions but fighters don't have that luxury.
The only reason why fighters are better than mages is because they don't have to sleep all the time to stay in top condition.
But then again all it takes to make a rogue completely worthless is one cast of true seeing
Nah, Fighters in AD&D still had awesome hitpoints, saves, and damage. Casters were still taking minutes at a time to do anything so it was still easy to get in their face and interrupt them without a frontline.
No matter how good the wizard, a dagger between the shoulder blades will really cramp his style.
t. assassin
Just so you guys know, that's not an official WotC fix, it's a homebrew thrown together by a dude on the Unearthed Arcana subreddit
True seeing cannot detect mundane disguises or mundane stealth checks, you know. There are also at least 4 different ways around it.
>Schrodingers Wizard, ACTIVATE!
But the wizard was just a simulacrum and now you're trapped in a box.
>Schrodinger Wizard wins again!
>Because I say so!
Yeah but it's cumbersome to make mundane stealth checks in battle unless you have hide in plain sight, which I think is a scarce feature in AD&D. And most of the ways around true seeing revolve around having caster allies to counter it.
Mages can set protection spells on a contingency to make up for their poor HD and use tenser's transformation to literally become a fighter if they really wanted to.
homebrew 3x games to disallow a few metamagic feats and cut out a very small amount of spells and casters become much less dangerous.
>not defending 3x or pf flaws
What kind of AD&D are you playing? Even when mages get mid range spells, they can still get there asses beaten by martials if the martials are intelligent and lucky. How many death spells and fireballs does your mage have? What happens when the fighter starts saving against your spells (any damage spell does half damage, and any instant death spell does nothing), how good is your AC (after all, mages in AD&D can not use armor, magical bracers and robes are fine, but you can't wear that regular leather armor), do you win initiative, how many hit points do you have (after all, I hope you rolled high on all those D4's), and last but not least (it's also up to the DM as well), if you get hit while your casting your spell, then the spell isn't completed.
Also most fighters use magic weapons and armor to make themselves viable and who makes those? Casters do. So even if a fighter does beat a caster it's usually indirectly because of another caster.
Yes, because 1d4+4 damage is a real threat to something that can shrug of 1d10+25 damage three times.
>Mages can set protection spells on a contingency
Assuming they got those spells. Spells for wizards in AD&D are heavily reliant on the DM. He picks what you get when you level, he decides if you find a scroll to research.
If he doesn't want you getting contingency wards or being a temporary fighter, you probably won't be. And even if you are, those protection spells are rarely enough to do more except help you live. They won't make you immortal.
The Blood God bestowed his blessing upon me and thanks to his might, I fear not the weapons of a cowardly mage.
Your witchcraft has no hold on me, and your skull will greatly please the Lord of Battle.
I've had an idea for a homebrew that relies on the idea that a 5th level character is roughly the equivalent of a top-shelf human being. Since 3.5/PF have this weird hard-on for realism for martials that says mundane can't do anything epic while wizards can bend reality, one could do this:
>get rid of Wizards altogether; if you wanna be a smarty, roll an INT-mancer Rogue or Bard or something, fluffed as a professor/scholar/whatever
>Sorcerer becomes a prestige class everyone except Clerics and Druids defaults to after level 5
>every base class upon hitting level 6th gets to start leveling in Sorcerer
>casting stat is the highest of INT/WIS/CHA, or the average thereof (compensated for by increasing the amount of possible stat levelups every 4 levels)
>Sorcerer's hit dice is d8 + CON; of pre-Sorcerer classes, only Fighters can reap a CON bonus higher than +2
>everyone sufficiently higher level can cast spells now
>this affects how everyone uses, and fluffs, their spell selection
>if you wanna warp reality in due time and stay on even playground, you will
>multiple spells but the Sorcerer's relatively restricted spell list encourage each member of the party to specialize
Because when it comes down to it, you can't stop me from breaking your spine.
>a magical deity has granted me the power to defeat other magical beings
w e w still reliant on that magic, I see
when will fighters ever be able to stand on their own?
>dominate doesn't exist
Break your own spine
>getting through my Iron Will
>Implying I even need my spine to kill you.
...
>he thinks I'm going to let him make a saving throw
>lake of acid
what part of I fly and Im invisible didnt you understand?
I like the idea of magic being something that experienced people discover after living some time as mundanes. It makes it more open to everyone as possibility, sets it as an ultimate destination for everyone (so there is no magic vs non-magic caste system) and it allows for more integration into individual play style. That's pretty cool.
Lmao good luck breaking through the emergency force sheild in one round.
Sure Mr low IQ barbarian. Here let me just gate in some demons to break your spine while I sip some more wine.
If you're lucky I wont' reanimate you're carcass to serve as my personal footrest.
Reminder that this is what happens when you pit a max level fighter against a max level wizard.
Martialfags BTFO for all time in every dimension. They cannot recover from this. It's over. Casters have won.
no, that happens when you give the caster preptime but you dont give preptime to the martial
They both had prep time in that example though.
You're delusional. Both player had prep time.
If you're seriously claiming that martials are as strong as casters in D&D you're fucking retarded.
What edition are we talking about and what level are we talking about? because if its 5e Gate doesn't give you control over what you summon