/wbg/ - Worldbuilding General

yes

I'm assuming you mean a bit more towards earlier final fantasy rather than later?

That aside, the thing to keep in mind with noblebright is that people are largely noble, and the world is bright. Evil people and monsters can still exist of course, but there's going to be the prevailing theme that good will triumph over evil in the end.

I'm not sure what the best method would be to show that, rather than simply telling the players.

Take your fantasy setting, and completely excise all the game-of-thrones grimdark political horseshit from it. I know you have some going on somewhere in there.

The kingdom is prosperous, the king doesn't murder his wifes or fuck his children, there's no entire family of lesser nobles who are famous exclusively for skinning people why is this a thing? and the primary conflict is that a witch has places a curse, or a dragon has plopped its fat ass in the castle and everyone had to flee for their lives.

What a fairytale is, at its core, is uncomplicated. A simple tale, with a simple solution, trimmed of court politics and intrigue and difficult moral questions. Break the curse, slay the dragon, outwit the trolls under the bridge. The conflict is simple, and so is the moral.

>What should I do to present this idea and to make the theme resonate throughout

Show that that the lords are noble.
Knights are expected to do honorable things
Perhaps the king is selected from the knights by the gods in some ceremonial manner, and the gods choose the most noble person. Thus everyone strives to be noble.

also, might be good to define what noble is...

I would take a look at Lorwyn from Magic: The Gathering. It actually gets across a very fairytale sort of tone

If you want to do some court intrige, make sure the bad person is some sort of easily identified as bad person, a wormtongue or rasputin type who dresses in dark clothes, whispers bad advise to a worried king, and must be defeated

extra points, he must not be killed, as that would be not noble

The most important thing for a world to be a fairy tale world is all the weird little rules: Beans grow into giant beanstalks that pierce the heavens. Saying somebody's name makes them poof. Bears leave porridge leaving all over the fucking place, etc.

Everyone here tells me that slavery is inefficient and that no culture should have it if you want to be realistic.

Well those people are both retarded and wrong.

Depends on the time period and region. There are points where slavery becomes less efficient, but if it was universally inefficient (ie, having a slave work a farm didn't give you more food than the slave ate) then it would have never occurred much at all in history, because there'd be little point.

But user, you're excising the best parts of fairytales. Things like abusive husbands, or woman who cut the thumbs off naughty children with giant red scissors, and other really fucked up shit.

Slavery died out the same reason feudalism did:

It's much more efficient to just pay someone 5 dollars an hour to do whatever shitty work you need to get done than it is to pay "nothing" to do whatever shitty work you need to get done (which actually means hiring other people to get your slave and bring it to you, hiring people to guard them so they don't escape, paying for their food, paying for their shelter, paying for a doctor if they get fucked up working etc)

I wonder if there's an alternate universe somewhere where Europeans offered African tribes entry level agricultural work in the Americas and it actually worked.

Noblebright Earth.

Not worth the cost of importing unintelligent, tribal savages.

The Transatlantic slave trade happened because Africans and Muslims were already enslaving each other in their wars and had plenty of surplus in stock. Meanwhile, the workers that were moving into the Americas had trickled to a crawl as economic conditions improved in Yurop and people didn't wanna go anymore. Faced with a labor shortage and imminent economic downturn, indentured servantry began to shift to full life-time slaves and the rich began importing more from Africa.

I'vve been trying to make a world for the longest goddamn time. Been trying to detail histories and ethnic groups and monsters and all sorts of things, just so I can have a playground to work in for stories.

And I'm sick and tired of it. I just ran out of steam. I'm going to write a bare bones high fantasy story. Good V Evil, ect ect.

It's gunna be like bonkles or something i dont fucking know.

Do you guys ever feel like this? That trying to assemble a web-like framework adorned meticulously with fucktonnes of detail just sucks all the imagination and livliness out of the world?

Like, I feel like we worry too much about wind patterns and philosophical movements of the late 34th century Elven Kingdoms than the important stuff: Like the themes and whatever.

Like, why are we building this world? What do we want to explore in it? What's it got to say about the human condition/existence?

I very often scrap and start over to try and figure out what I want out of a setting, though luckily I don't often get into too much detail before the broad strokes.

I feel like I don't ask those sorts of questions about theme enough though. I feel like I know the tone I want to aim for, but I'm not reinforcing that as much as trying to piece together cool stuff I want to include.

Going for a Celtic vibe for a new Dnd5e setting, wanted some input on races.

So far I got Gaelic and Norman Humans, Norse Elves and Half Elves, Gaelic Firbolg and Halflings, Anglo-Saxon Wolfmen, Giants, and Catfolk based on the Cat-Sidhe.

Good? Bad?

I often feel that way. I start over with something simpler, which then turns into another overcomplicated mess, which I then abandon then start over with something simpler etc.

Civilization is the source and centerpiece to Good. Your Knights are Paladins and your Paladins are Super Paladins. Kings are unwaveringly benevolent, and the churches only exist for the betterment of their towns. Corruption does not exist where people are.

Evil lies elsewhere. It might be in Goblin or Orc camps far off in the wilderness. There might be a Kingdom of Evil, but its never one of your neighbors. If that kingdom is human, there's something obvious that makes them distinctly different from the Good people (other than being evil obvs).

Townsfolk are uniformly optimistic. When something good happens they are elated, while a bad event trends towards a more neutral reaction. People are curious, joyful, and friendly. There is scant superstition that isn't also tongue-in-cheek. Wizards are seen as wise sages rather than with apprehension.

If you want to try something new, it works more often than not. People want to learn, experience, and expand themselves. They're more trusting with less foundation needed. Populations are more unified than not, and demographic differences aren't particularly important. Honor goes a lot further and with less evidence expected.

There's also plenty of ways to corrupt all of this if you ever have the desire. Noblebright is very idealistic, and subverting that is its weakness.

>What different models of slavery exist in your setting?
One nation has some nobles who employ indentured servitude to the lesser human-things. Through technicality, there's also a hivemind nation who enslaves its people based on geographical proximity to a Queen. Messengers between kingdoms have instructions to deliver messages either to the Gate or the Inner Chambers depending on how much a Queen wants their messenger back. And of course the monstrous races practice traditional slavery as they're wont.

>In which nations would you find the largest portion of the population being enslaved?
The Hivemind nation for sure. The Nobility/Servant nation employs very few to do labor and the Monstrous races are too small and disorganized to compete.

>What notable rebellions have been orchestrated by the common people?
Somewhat of a rebellion, a !America was established by multiple small refugees all finding each other in the wilderness. People leave their homelands and try to establish another village/town/city all the time, but for it to happen nigh simultaneously for each "important" nation is noteworthy.

>What notable rebellions have been orchestrated by high ranking traitors?
Within that !America, there was a cult that rose to power under the guise of Organized Religion. They were attempting to summon a Demon Lord to enslave the entire world. !America had representatives from each of the 12 Blessed races, which was a requirement for the ancient magic. The ritual only partially worked. The earth was reformed, almost every living thing's genetics were altered, and the world restarted. This was less of a traditional rebellion and more of a "rebel against life". I'm sure some traditional rebellions happened, but I haven't gotten to that overall level of detail yet.

>Who are the most famous traitors?
Each of the 12 Blessed races had a leader for their refugees. That part of history hasn't been forgotten. Same with the leaders of the demonic cult.

Tell me more about this free mapmaking toolset.

So I have a setting where I am basically "changing the meta" of Wizards and magic then in most settings.

Instead of Wizards being powerful 'artillery pieces' feared by all, Wizards are helpful kooks with a grimoire of useful charms, hexes and transformation spells of all kinds.

Wizards are significantly weaker then in traditional DnD on purpose here; for one thing they absolutely require a wand to do any magic at all and do not have powerful spells. They can cast an unlimited number of useful but small spells and cantrips, allowing them to do small and simple tasks. Very powerful magic, anything even closely resembling a fireball or summoning a demon would be something special and encompass an entire campaign worth of character growth and great archmage-level status.

How would the average fantasy world change if magic users are almost entirely supportive instead of power houses, and who the majority of spells they have access too are Hearth-spun enchantments to help out around a house or campsite?

How would you incorporate Wizards of this stature into your own fantasy setting, or what do you think is their proper place in society full of muggles and fantastic things alike?

They would probably be everywhere and people would treat them with more respect than traditional powerful wizards. Since you mentioned hexes, some people may be paranoid that a wizard is targeting them. The general quality of life would be much higher based on the specific spells I'm picturing from your description, and that would lead to quicker technological development.

They would be somewhat out of place in my setting, magic is everywhere in mine but it can only occur in ways that cannot be proven to be magic. While they aren't as powerful as my wizards, they would be far easier to spot and magic would be much easier to study. My wizards essentially work like this:
>They are adept at imposing their will on reality in seemingly unnatural ways.
>Achieved through different methods like prayer, obsessive-compulsive (often placebo derived from experience) rituals, confidence, or simply because the wizard thinks it's funny.
>The wizard succeeds in a field without the benefit of as much talent as you would expect should be necessary
>People seem to have an irrational hate for the wizard that is not entirely explained by the wizard’s actions.
>Wizards are often more ambitious, and often more aggressive, than you think is normal.
>One or more major reputation disasters define the wizard’s history.
>The wizard has a gift for simplification.
>Observers detect a reality distortion field.
>Wizards have an ability to succeed where other fail by changing the entire game as opposed to winning at the existing one.

Additionally
>Have very distinct appearances and mannerisms, which they are obsessive in maintaining. Part of their power comes from this persona.
>Illicit joy, confusion, and even fear in times when they seem absurdly out of place, creating surreal environments simply by existing. Something is very off about their aura.
>Addicted to having their persona imprinted into the minds of others.

Neat

Bumping

Thanks! Any suggestions for keeping the setting feeling Celtic?

Hey Veeky Forums can I get some constructive criticism on my map?

Think GURPS had a 3rd edition Celtic book, GURPS books are great for worldbuilding, even if you ignore the crunchy backside of the book.

looks like it is upside down...

What is the big wall protecting?

Why did you do this to my picture Veeky Forums? I thought we were friends

That is built by the large empire to protect against the evil one that rules the middle empire there.

Let's try again

I am a horrible with drawing, but a easy way to make mountains look better is to give them off center sub ^ to give them better definition.

Sounds like a plan! You don't happen to know the full name of it, do you? Would cut down on the time it'll take to dive through the archive in the general.

It is called Celtic Myth, its under the historical section of their files.

Good advice.

Thank you sir. You are a gentleman of taste.

You are welcome.

And now comes the great debate.

Been working on some world building. And have a key question.

Which is better suited - low fantasy or high fantasy?

Depends on the world. Each has it's pros and cons. What kind of world we talkin about?

Not that guy but high fantasy is always better if you want to have fun since it have more room for creativity to maneuver.

For your Celtic setting? Go with high fantasy for the initiated, low fantasy for the common man.
Have weird shit like the realms of the Seelie and Unseelie, etc be relegated to the informed, with the majority of the population kept in willful ignorance.

>What different models of slavery exist in your setting?
Mostly indentured servitude. Debtors can sell themselves when they've got nothing else left to sell. The conditions of servitude can vary widely; often the deals are worked out to be pretty humane, but unscrupulous businesses have been known to strike highly unfavorable, even cruel, purchases. In the worst cases, they specifically target the illiterate, making strict contracts and telling the debtor the deal is much more favorable than it is. An appointed legal official is supposed to oversee all servitude contracts to ensure this doesn't happen, but those same businesses usually have at least a couple such officials in their pockets.

Most contracts are for a theoretically limited period, but depending on interest rates of debt and the rate of pay, that can stretch far longer than anticipated.
>In which nations would you find the largest portion of the population being enslaved?
Meride, known as an economic powerhouse, has purchased miners from all over the world. Dwarves typically live near the poles, but close to 4% of equatorial Meride's population is now composed of dwarves. Maybe. I don't know for sure what I'm gonna do with dwarves in my setting or if they're gonna exist at all. But I do think I'm gonna have Meride own lots of indentured servants.

That actually fits in really well with another feature of Meride: twice now they've outright purchased other countries teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for easier access to their natural resources.

1/2, because apparently I can't keep myself from rambling.

Depends on certain factors. In a super-simplified nutshell: if you can pay people to do the work for less than the upkeep of your slaves then slavery becomes less cost-effective.

>What different models of slavery exist in your setting?
On the Hammer Isle people are born into slavery. Strong racial divide exists with Greek-looking masters and Irish-looking slaves.

In the Ilem Wildlands people Ilemites would kidnap people in raids and make them work for them and also make criminals work for them sometimes. Traditions demand to release them once in a while.
>In which nations would you find the largest portion of the population being enslaved?
Aforementioned Hammer Isle has ridiculous percentage of slaves. Not really because they need them, but because they need to keep them down.
>What notable rebellions have been orchestrated by high ranking traitors?
A succession crisis. Accusation against the crown prince's mother's fidelity caused his half-sister and her husband to raise a rebellion across the country in a bid for throne, after the old king died.

>What notable rebellions have been orchestrated by the common people?
The most notable turned Reveste from a pure monarchy into a constitutional monarchy of sorts, where the sovereign (or a representative) shares power with elected officials.
>What notable rebellions have been orchestrated by high ranking traitors?
Dozens have occurred over the millennia, most of them unsuccessful. Pretty much any time a new ruler takes power, you can expect at least one noble to revolt.
>Who are the most famous traitors?
Alveila Tenvaas, the first Reveste sovereign of the current dynasty, who seized power one hundred and forty years ago.

>pay workers to work your fields/assembly line/etc
>they have money, pay for their own upkeep
>occasionally give you money back for the products they help produce

Muffled sixteen tons playing in the distance

The reason why African slaves prosper in Americas and not in the Middle East where most African slaves are actually bound to is simply because Muslims castrate their male slaves and impregnate their female slaves with their own seed. This had resulted in several African tribes been wiped out of existence.

Make it in Inkarnate.

Why did ancient empires have so many slaves?

Depends which ones you mean. In the case of Rome, constant wars and the ways the laws worked meant slaves were rather plentiful. Furthermore, it was basically the only good way to move a ship quickly.

Slavery gets you some cheap but motivated labour. Which is great for picking crops, but not so good for anything else. It also gives you some greedy unmotivated businessmen which can potentially slow down your economy consistently. Which is why it had to be outlawed. It's not 100% inefficient, just not being a slaver, pays better, especially as knowledge pool expands demanding for more sophisticated workers.

Wage slavery is much more efficient, and you can still keep your workers in debt and suffering until they position improve more with rise of even more sophisticated know-hows and general humanism in society.

Remember, kids; if you need unintelligent, unskilled labor in a fantasy setting, just call your friendly neighborhood Necromancer.

Once again, a lot of different factors. Generally, if your free people can gain a good living working for themselves, then you're going to have to offer them sufficient incentive to work for you instead. If that incentive is greater than the cost of purchasing and upkeeing slaves, then you're saving resources by using slaves. It's sort of supply and demand. If there is a high amount of available resources and a small amount of free workers, the price of hiring free workers rise. If resources are scarce and free labor plentiful, the price of free workers goes down. Tangentially, you have a legal right to force slaves to work for you, which you theoretically don't with free people, meaning you can keep your labor costs steady even if you're having them performing increasingly unpleasant tasks.

Also, it can be a "good" way to handle criminal prisoners and captives of war. If you're going to keep them alive might as well put them to work.

wrong.
slavery died out because of the enlightenment.
i dont know why i even goto this site anymore. arguing with literally thousands of 16 year olds is just.... a waste of time

How long does it take for a human to walk about 100km assuming they take a few breaks a day and sleep maybe 6-7 hours a night? Like 3 days?

It's about 20 hours of walking, I think. Assuming it's not a difficult path.

So I guess 3 days is a reasonable estimate. 7 hours of walking per day, more than enough left to rest.

Depends on the terrain. If it's just, like, a flat meadow or a dirt road or something, then a rate of 6-7km/h is on the high side of reasonable. If they walk 14 hours a day (7 hours of sleep and 3 hours for meals/rests), then they could cover 100km in about a day and a half.

What's that?

It's a drawing program made for fantasy maps.

Is there any way to take a hand drawn map and recreate it in inkarnate? Or another program? I know I could scan it and throw it into gimp but I don't have a tablet or anything so I can't draw on my computer. Also I'm no good at art all I can do is basic map shit.

I think just set the paper copy in front of you and draw a copy of it in the computer. You can take the opportunity to refine it at the same time.

What kind of country is Rekke? Agrarian, manufacturing, that kinda stuff.

The divine mandate of rulership has been a myth perpetrated by pretty much every ruling class in every part of the world, and they still have rebellions. Hell, a watered-down version of it still exists ("I'm rich because I'm smart and I worked hard"). I don't think a "magical bloodline" would be enough to keep people from revolting against a shitty leader.

>Idon't think a "magical bloodline" would be enough to keep people from revolting against a shitty leader.
In mine the ruling family's bloodline can literally shoot lightning from their hands, but that doesn't protect them from an angry enough mob. That's what the jackboots are for

Magical bloodline in the sense that the nobility can cast typically cast charm spells and fling a few firebolts.

It isn't going to make them immune to resentment, but it's harder to assassinate them. I think you'd have far less rebellions when the divine mandate to rule was backed up by someone shooting lighting.

Unless a rebel leader could also shoot lightning

Which makes him the bastard son of nobility, in league with otherwordly entities, leading to the mistrust of the populace, or just someone who's heavily outnumbered because one wizard against 5 or so sorcerers is a bad fight even for a higher level wizard.

>What kind of country is Rekke? Agrarian, manufacturing, that kinda stuff.
The holdfast is basically a wilderness fort. They are used for raising crops, (and most likely bedwarmers). It is viewed as a evil place. but as said, the holdfast is something like 800 free folk and 650 slaves... So we are not talking huge numbers.

Is this a logical map? Does it at least not too overtly trigger the autisms of the "muh realism" players?

Biggest things I see are a desert being right next to all the towns names snow, making me thing that place is supposed to be cold, and the giant straight wall.

That desert would be a tundra if anything, which is fine, but should be labeled better. And the wall shouldn't be perfectly flat, but follow the countours of hills and mountains and other obstacles, sort of like the great wall of china. Unless there's a perfectly seared line in the earth, it won't be perfectly straight.

Take a photo with your cellphone and download it to your computer, then try to match it up with your export from Inkarnate

>What different models of slavery exist in your setting?
All kinds, we don't discriminate. Race based chattel, debt slavery, non-race based chattel, thralldom, concubinage, the works.

>In which nations would you find the largest portion of the population being enslaved?

The glorious Zunbilid Shahdom has gathered a great host of slaves to serve in its fleets, fields, arenas, and on the battlefield. So great in fact, that over 65% of the population consists of foreign slaves of varying levels of societal status.

>What notable rebellions have been orchestrated by the common people?

The Free city of Gogow exists due to a slave rebellion in which the reveling slaves managed to seize the cities harbor, along with the 3 great warships that came with it. Unfortunately for the Zunbils, they had just came out of a war with its neighbors that left its navy crippled and unable to respond with haste to the rebellion. Being surrounded on all sides by mountains, the Shahs generals were forced to approach the city from the sea, a tactic that proved disasterous as the Gogowian Slaves manned the battleships and drove off the invading shahs forces. Even many decades later, the well trained forces of Gogow continuously repel all Zunbilid attempts at getting close to the city.
>What notable rebellions have been orchestrated by high ranking traitors?
Unrelated to the previous event, a state run by communist technocrats had recently broke away from the Golden Khanate to form their Utopian state. War has not yet been prosecuted by either side however.
>Who are the most famous traitors?
More legend than anything, the tale of Durgen the Horrible and how he damned the dwarves to near extinction is one that's rather infamous, and the Clanfolk that roam the hills of Lorn take it upon themselves rename those who commit a crime against their kin after him as a mark of shame deserving revulsion.

Might be autism, but i just wrote a 1000 word short story on a obscure bit of history of the world I am creating - elder scrolls style.

Good. I'd be interested if you wanted to talk more about it

and yes, would need to copy edit it better if I was to really publish it.

Have to agree with my label, didn't really think it through. Figured that side of the mountains got all the wind rain and snow, no fall on the other side would logically be a desert. Also the wall looks mostly flat-ish, since the land there doesn't get more than rolling hills

Well, it is still technically a desert, it's just that the people wouldn't call it that. It would be all permafrost, rather than sandy and hot.

Well I could just call it the frozen north, I guess, but still. The point is that there's literally nothing up there Maybe. Probably. No one who has went deep enough in that territory was ever seen again, so they must have starved or gotten lost right?

Anyone using/has an interesting take on wendigos in their setting?

Have you played Everyone is Wendigo?

Is that like Everyone is John, but with cannibalism?

Always wanted to to a GURPS horror in a Mexican american war setting.

youtube.com/watch?v=OjvXL0vXt8Y

Dwarfs, do you use them? How do you do them? What do you do with them?

Im stewing with an idea that Dwarves and Giants come hand in hand. Dwarves are like maggots in the flesh of giants, so wherever Giants are or were, Dwarves are.

It's an old setting I saw on Veeky Forums. There were no more humans left, everyone was some form of shapeshifter pretending to be human, but no one knew anyone else was a shapeshifter

Wasn't that the original Dwarves in Norse myth (something was made from maggots, but I don't remember exactly what)?

I have mine as a merchant navy mercenary and privateer force with a Phoenician flavor. They come from a northern mountainous region that centuries ago, the natural seawalls gave way and flooded, turning the valleys into waterways. They are pretty standard Dwarves; stubborn, honor-bound, and obsessed with money, due to their beliefs that when you die, you must pay the toll to enter the afterlife, which increases the more sins you've committed in life.

Everything is seen as business to the Dwarves, even war. Dwarven military is made up of mercenaries and sellswords. Privateering is a common practice, pirate companies are hired to attack tradelines, and combat is done in a relatively orderly fashion, only involving combatants. The pirates will capture and hold the target until ransom is negotiated and paid, the release it and compensate for any damages caused to non-risk items and personnel.

>Wasn't that the original Dwarves in Norse myth (something was made from maggots, but I don't remember exactly what)?

They were maggots in the flesh of Ymir given reason by the gods. They're ugly hairy short men who are lecherous and obsessed with beautiful things. They're incredibly skilled in craft, having made mead from the blood of a skald, and a necklace that a goddess wanted it so bad she had sex with the dwarves for it. Dwarf women are rare, but apparently there was a Dwarf woman seductress.

What evolutionary niche might dwarves fill?

Maybe they were just there first but are inferior to humans and fell from glory due to humans being better fit for the dwarves' habitats?

Built for high altitudes
Hands and feet evolved for climbing and gripping
Can sniff out edible plants in the ground
Winter hibernation

Didn't think of these until immediately after I asked the question