/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Only In The Zone is really "Redundant" with Leash the Beast (spending Willpower to Ride is also unnecessary, but you still can and so Unyielding still benefits).
The other three features aren't *redundant*, though there is a certain point where enough is enough, and Ride the Wave + Coil of Wyrm both at 5 is ridiculous.

Of course, someone was saying Dying On Your Feet competes with Coil of Wyrm 5, but Dying On Your Feet is a Carthian Fighting Merit and not the capstone of a fucking amazing Coil.

I think what user is saying is that he's seen edgier.
It's sort of like the Salty Spitoon meme.

Coil of the Wyrm is fucking amazing, though it's always been Voivode that appealed to me most.

Am I the only one that finds Requiem's red cursive absolutely unreadable?

I could parse it out after looking at it for a minute or two, but it's extremely hard to distinguish at a glance for me.

I'd rather have Rites of the Impaled.

>I think what user is saying is that he's seen edgier.
That's what I was saying as well. I'm afraid to know what those edgy characters are.

If you think this is bad, you should have seen 1e.

1ed awakening Gold print

Here's hoping that Secrets of the Covenants has more Coils than just the 3 they previewed.

Question:
Does dissonance happen if sleepers who are no longer sleepers see magic?

For example, a Thyrus turns a roomful of sleepers into rats and gives it Indefinite Duration. Does the Abyss try and break that spell down since the human-minded rats know Magic was done on them?

Yeah. That was also bad.

But why? What possible good comes from morbidly avoiding every and any topic that makes us feel negative emotion? And why are you so intellectually bankrupt that you can't admit wholesale censorship of themes that, in your own words, "*triggers* an intense negative emotion" -- spells the death knell of a horror game, a fucking WORLD of horror games, based literally on monsters who feed and prey on human beings, devour souls, drink blood, ruin lives and other things that can, do and should trigger intense negative emotions in the viewer?

If I shield a little boy from everything that could scare, upset or hurt him, in 18 years I have a neurotic, emotionally crippled adult with no resiliency whatsoever, incapable of joining the adult world for fear of sharp edges. Maybe that actually happened to a bunch of kids 18 years ago, I don't know, but I'm not doing grown adults any favours by treating them like mentally ill torture survivors.

If I remove everything from the World of Darkness that could cause negative feelings, there is almost nothing left. "It's like our world, except... not... and there are conspiracies... or not, if that's particularly upsetting...."

Also, there is no guarantee the X card won't be mistreated and abused. Who are you to say what someone else finds triggering, Aspel?

Also, we're not talking elfgames, we're talking fucking horror games. If someone is recovering from heavy, heavy psychological shit, maybe games involving blatant metaphors for depersonalisation, sexual asssault and mental illness are a fucking stupid idea to begin with.

Stop justifying stupid players doing some hyper-leftist radical postmodern meltdowns for the sake of attention. White Wolf themselves have passed down the advice to us: STOP BANNING CONTENT, START BANNING SHITTY PLAYERS.

Aw shit there back

...

Go back to your dumpster fire of a thread and go make your dumb impassioned plea to someone that cares, we're talking about WoD/CofD things now.

At this point who knows what'll actually make it to the book. It's kind of exciting!

I know its beaten to death but is there a date for hurt locker and not just" a few weeks"

>Denies one enthusiasm
>Enthusiastic exclamation mark

I feel like you are completely misunderstanding this topic. Whether or not it's intentional or simply an inability to grasp the intricacies, I would rather not continue.

I'm playing the X-Card on this conversation. Please respect that.

Here is some reading material to better understand the X-Card system and it's uses.
docs.google.com/document/d/1SB0jsx34bWHZWbnNIVVuMjhDkrdFGo1_hSC2BWPlI3A/edit
story-games.com/forums/discussion/18533/using-the-x-card
web.archive.org/web/20121027232907/http://thisjustinfromgencon.com/2012/08/20/this-just-in-from-clyde-an-interview-with-john-stavropoulos-of-nerdnyc
gamingaswomen.com/posts/2013/01/finding-my-o-with-the-x-card/

When you add the O Card it really does become a BDSM thing...

>playing the X-Card on this conversation

December 7th. Same day as Secrets of the Covenants.

...

Yes. Otherwise the go to move is to transform your enemies into bacteria and enact the most soul wounding vore larp in front of your friends whenever you want to kill somebody.

Turn em all into fish and the issue sorts itself out in ten minutes. Argue with the ST that your victims will be so desperate to breathe that they forgot they ever were people

But you actually can do that. Dissonance only happens at the end of the scene, and if you can turn someone into a frog and step on them, they don't become people again.

What's to stop a thyrsus from altering a tree with three dots of life into making it flexible and thrashy as a snake and then dominating every physical encounter with the buggering birch?

Doesnt each polymorph victim get a saving throw to disbelief the situation theyre in? And doesnt the disbelief happen each time the rat person notices his friends are now rats?

WHAT happens if you poly someone into something small and lock them ina tiny safe and dispel it?

Do people turned rats quickly forget they were ever people and just become dumb animals once they fail the first saving throw or can furry inclined mages make slutty mares for their mlp larps. Pls answer each of my concerns in depth :3

>Dare you enter my magical realm?

THIS
DUMPSTER'S
ON FIRE

THIS
DUMPSTER'S
ON FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRE

>Dissonance only happens at the end of the scene

>WHAT happens if you poly someone into something small and lock them ina tiny safe and dispel it?
They grow large in a tiny space and physics take over.

>World of Darkness is urban fantasy
>Dracula despises Urban Fantasy.

Confused - 10/10

>too bad it's just your reinterpretation of/impression from the book and not something what was actually written there. I agree that this way it would work much better.
Actually beasts do have an ability where no matter what you did, at worst if you spend I think it was 48h away from the victim, everything you did was A-OK again.

Thing is, neither that nor the whole "kin" system work on the unchained.

No, you being such a bitch makes me want to continue when before it should have died. The thing that should die here is you. Kill yourself.

Not really.

Also, that person misunderstands how Demons work, too. Yes, they edit reality, but that doesn't mean it's not a shock that Bob your uncle is actually someone who double-secret ultra killed Bob and took his place.

No you see, WoD is different because you're all sad and stuff!

In all seriousness: CofD and WoD are horror games and are designed to be so, but just so happen to have rules general enough and tend to be so setting-rich that it's very easy to play them as urban fantasy. Changeling the Dreaming, for example, can get pretty dark, but it's also the most Urban Fantasy out of the lot. Geist the Sin-Eaters is another game that leans heavy on the Urban Fantasy as well, though obviously it can be pretty spooky.

It's still really weird that Dracula has such a hatred for Urban Fantasy, though, since WoD being a formative factor in the genre's birth ensures that it always has some kind of horror aspect to it. UF books used to share space with horror books for quite a while, and still do in some cases.

Urban fantasy and horror are not mutually exclusive. The type of horror that World of Darkness explores *is* urban fantasy. That is, it is fantasy elements set in a modern urban world.

>UF books used to share space with horror books for quite a while, and still do in some cases.
I read an anthology that had a forward I really liked but I can't remember the exact words or what book it was. But it was such a good quote, something like:
>Urban Fantasy is the bastard of Gothic Horror and Noir.

Only if it's ever shown to them (like when the thing takes off its Bob-hat and the fuel-drain tentacles come out). It's a hell of a breaking point if it does happen, but as long as it's not, Bob's your uncle. He was never *not* your uncle, even if, as far as the demon knows, he only became your uncle bob last week.

Turning stuff into your cover widely affects people; that's how everyone and the records show you're a graduate of such or such highschool, and have an appartment at such or such a place. In fact lower cover ratings are full of holes there which is how people could get suspicious.

>Add to that ... a shield, and a spear
What respectable vampire would use that? This is not Roman legion, vampires are savage and bloodthirsty monsters - Claws of the Unholy ftw.

Yeah. It's rather bad, but still improvement.

Actually there were only 2 Coils previewed. And I wouldn't expect more :(

This is fucking Veeky Forums. Wretched hive of scum and villainy. Dark corner of internet. Home of alt-right neonazis, weeb fedoras, misogynist gamergaters and mlp fans.
You think anyone cares?

>Doesnt each polymorph victim get a saving throw to disbelief the situation theyre in?
Nothing about that in rules. They can just withstand it with stamina.

Reading what I was reacting to again, I seem to have misunderstood 3rd paragraph (second language...), which lead me completely astray. That caused my reaction to be non sequitor and in the context not mean what it was supposed to.

Some people tend to equate urban and contemporary fantasy. Urban fantasy doesn't have to be contemporary and vice versa. WoD isn't necessarily urban fantasy either. For instance in Werewolf you can quite easily do without urban elements, in Vampire it's hardly possible.

That explains it. I found it odd that someone would argue against whether or not an ability is in the book.

They're not mutually exclusive, but that doesn't make WoD's originally intended style of horror "Urban Fantasy". Its horror was meant to be more specific and personal than many future Urban Fantasy stories. Calling it "Personal Horror" wasn't completely marketing. Just, you know, 90% marketing.

Which is probably why Dracula doesn't like UF as a direction for his edition. For him, it's all about getting back to the basics, which is why he's so adamant on reviving the 1e/early 2e material. Urban Fantasy just makes things too thematically broad for him, since it's Fantasy, Horror, Noir/Crime Fiction, and occasionally Science Fiction rolled up into one.

Of course, that broadened scope is why the game became so popular and memorable once the initial VtM buzz died down, so trying to eschew the term and the genre is a terrible idea.

What I'm getting at, I suppose, is that Dracula's comments make sense if you remember how Pathfinder marketed itself over D&D: it claimed was the true successor to the name and Paizo were the only people carrying on the spirit of 3.x era WotC and TSR.

White Wolf, and Dracula in particular, has similar tactics: "Personal Horror" over "Urban Fantasy", making a documentary about WoD, hype over how they're making blood drinking "really matter", and making sure that their first announcement of the new brand had Mark Rein•Hagen in attendance. It's all to establish that WWP is merely the natural and legit continuation of the brand, not intruding meddlers or nostalgia hounds.

Whether or not that's actually working is up to you.

Who the fuck is Dracula?

>In a thread about vampires
>Not knowing Dracula

So, I'm going to be running a 2e Changeling the Lost game using the play test packet. I noticed a few things missing, nothing major.

I'm going to make it easy on myself and use the Seasons free hold.
While the Storytelling contract is missing and I'm not exactly concerned about it the Emotions contracts are, and so are the Mantels. I can BS up the mantels pretty easily.

Do you think I can just import the 1e Contracts?
Also Tokens...I was just thinking of letting them be an Item with a resource value up to the dots of the Merit that has a contract of up to dots built in. Is that too powerful?

The guy from the new Software company that bought White Wolf from CCP. He's the guy in change of White Wolf Publishing. How he came to be called Dracula I don't know I'm assuming it's something the community here Ascribed to him but...don't know. Don't Care.

Seems like every time I lurk /cofd/ it's always talking about SJW bullshit. I'm glad that not everyone that plays these games is a retard.

Welcome to the internet. The people who yell the loudest get heard the most, and the ones who are organized don't let the rest of us get answers to our questions.

Of course I'm not sure how well they would do if people just patted them on the head said "okay, that's a valid opinion" and stopped responding to them after that.

He portrays Dracula in the Vampire the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition art. That's about it.

His real name is Martin Ericcson. While just calling him Martin would invoke one of Romero's best films and one of the best vampire films of the 70s, that's not as catchy as Dracula.

encouragement or validation of another opinion is the bane of the internet user

I think you could import the 1e contracts. The 2e Contract formula seems simple enough to make that possible, though I'd need to read them again to be sure.

As for the Tokens, I think that'll be fine as long as long as you're not expecting your players to pour five dots into Token at chargen.

There was a brief trend to pointedly refer to him as Martin a few weeks ago in response to some outrage which I have forgotten, but it seems that the threads have gone back to calling him Dracula.

Except for many people the things that World of Darkness does and *WANTS* to do ARE Urban Fantasy. Not "I want to do this instead", but that it IS. For many people, Urban Fantasy is a brand of horror.

>While just calling him Martin would invoke one of Romero's best films and one of the best vampire films of the 70s, that's not as catchy as Dracula.
What?

I don't think you can port the contracts and honestly I wouldn't bother. Tokens you can do however, that actually shouldn't matter much, I kind of hated how Tokens were costed in 1e anyway.

Yes, yes, you're very brave for never being upset or sad or angry at anything ever at all, unlike those silly SJWs. Would you like a cookie to make you feel special?

But calling him Dracula is already insulting.
I've seen people who don't think he's masturbatory get mad when people call him Dracula because it's disrespectful and dismissive.

>I've seen people who don't think he's masturbatory get mad when people call him Dracula

But those people are idiots.

I'd say there's a vast gulf between never getting angry/sad at anything, and going off from multiple hairtriggers about things that would bounce cleanly off even a thin-skinned man or woman easily.

I mean, if someone's gonna pull an X-card on - and this was listed
>Being alone (no sneaking ahead? no having a quiet day? what?)
>Comittment ("hey user these two characters are dati~" "X-CARD, LISTER, X-CARD, THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER")
>Public places (OH SHIT FUCK THERE'S A PARK AND/OR A BUS STOP OR SOME KIND OF BUILDING IN A TOWN OH GODS)

Then the only person that reasonably can be shut down over these things is the one brandishing the card. They're beyond repair, and doing nothing but banging around the engine compartment loudly damaging everything else.

Not everything is black and white; and thinking entirely mundane parts of everyday life should be shut down hard is a sure sign that the problem is someone's completely busted CPU.

>you claim not to be completely crippled beyond all hope from mere mentions of any random thing at all, therefore you must be some angry internet tough-guy trying to pretend he's all that

No see, there's a large... spectrum (I'm sure you know plenty about at least being on one of *those*) of ability to tolerate and shrug things off in between "dead apathy" and "trigglypuff". Not being the latter does not in any way require one be the former. The latter isn't normality in any way, nor is it even remotely close to anything resembling a functional undamaged mind.

And that's saying a lot, because most minds are normally very different.

I think Dracula has not noticed the shitstorm of Mage: Revised.

He sounds like the personification of badwrongfun

>I described plane turbulence. This triggered a player and luckily I stopped asap (we had to stop the game as well) and we did what we could to help the person in question.
That's fucking hilarious

My current character might die/get doxxed soon so I wanna have a whole roster of backups

Need ideas for ww2 mages

Axis, allies, it's all fair game

I already had an idea for a correspondence/matter/prime sniper using a legendary rifle

Need moar

I'm pulling from the Mage magical items and the Werewolf Fetishes for that. So good.

Dang though on the contracts because some simple contracts of emotion were in those. And would have saved me a lot of time.

... Plane turbulence? Really?
Why aren't these nuts in Arkham like they need?

"Martin" is a good vampire movie that George A. Romero directed.

>Except for many...

They are classified as Urban Fantasy now, because we have an idea of the genre as it exists, and many things retroactively get put into that category. That did not make the original intention of VtM to be an Urban Fantasy game.

Now that we know what it is, it's obvious to put it in that basket. But that doesn't play into WWP's messaging of "returning to the heart of WoD/VtM", so they distance themselves from the term, even if it's a stupid idea.

Also if you're addressing the publishing classifications of Urban Fantasy, it's not considered a Horror subgenre anymore, though it can have horrific elements. Urban Fantasy as a whole doesn't intend to cause a sense of unease in the reader, and some horror magazines will ask people not to submit UF stories at all (or if they do, they have to belong in the sub-sub genre of "Dark Fantasy", which is still considered a horror related genre). Today, UF is considered an offshoot of fantasy, especially after it gave birth to the Paranormal Fantasy sub-sub genre, which also got thrust into the Fantasy genre. This is probably because of mainstream publisher's attempts to steer clear of Horror outside of the big names, but that's outside the topic of this thread.

Even now, CofD/WoD games are Horror games first, Urban Fantasy games second, in contrast to Scion, which is all Urban Fantasy all the time. You could actually just split the difference and call the games "Dark Fantasy". Some early WoD anthologies did just that.

It's not even that they got triggered, it's that they had to stop the entire game AND make an attempt to console the player.

Yeah, I just... I have no words to properly describe how I feel about this.

... But I won't go demanding everyone console me no matter how distraught the stupidity makes me feel.

I won't deny a hug would be nice, but people are allowed to play one-dot intellect dullards, and for me to demand otherwise just because of that would be unacceptable.

If a hallow has a rating of 2 does that mean it can provide a maximum of 2 mana total per day. Or 2 mana per person or imbued item per day?

total

A normal person might remember bad turbulence with something like this:
>Oh, yeah dude, I've been through that once. We lost a couple of thousand feet more before they could get the plane back under control; that was fucking terrifying for a bit. No I can totally understand the action penalties from that right now.

Okay so here is my first contract of emotion how does it look?
Influence (Emotion) 0 - 00000
Cost: 1 Glamour
Dice Pool: Presence + Expression + Wyrd
Action: Instant
Duration: 1 Day
Catch:
Upon activating this contract The changeling behaves as if it has an influence rating equal to it's dots in this contract in regards to their courts emotion. Successes on the activation roll act as a pool of bonus dice for the duration of the contract to add to rolls to enact their influence.

>a 14 year old Nosferatu embraced after his family was killed during WWI and permanently wore a gas mask

But the Brothers of Ypres are a Mekhet bloodline...

Are you my Mummy?

Ouch. Does mana recovery get significantly better with a legacy? I seem to be burning through a lot.

Is this a mixed chronicle?

What? No not that kind of Mummy. Mummy as in low class British english for mommy.

What shitstorm? Is this the new shitstorm or the old "ww took the umbra ball home because we werent playing it right" shitstorm?

You. I like you

>can furry inclined mages make slutty mares for their mlp larps
>slutty mares

Redundant.

No such mechanic. They get to resist once with stamina when the spell is cast and that stamina just subtracts from the dice pool to cast. End of story.

What happens when you lock them into something small and the time runs out or you dispel. Chunky red salsa, and a mystery for the forensics team to be stumped on for the next decade.

Depends on how much you want to reach. If you reach yes they can retain their human intellect otherwise they will awaken from it thinking they had a dream where they were a rat and unaware of their pervious life. As for transforming them into Slutty Mares for a LARP, we just contacted the Guardians of the Veil. Please remain where you are so the sniper can have a better shot. Yes they could keep their intellect with reach but using magic to do that would likely be a wisdom breach and possibly invite hit squads on you because you aren't supposed to run the risks of exposure and Abyssal interference for mass transforming people into pastel miniature equines for no purpose other than a Role Play.

correction::

the spell's potency must extent beyond the targets withstand

Withstand for this kind of spell would be stam + PowerStat

The old

Thank you for the correction.

You're a right faggot, aren't you?

Power Stat is never factored in. Needing Successes > [Resistance Trait] is already making the spell enough, adding in Blood Potency or whatever would make it impossible for most Mages to do things.

KEK

Rate my latest version of VtR Samedi! Now with a custom blood sorcery!
Samedi
Clan: Nosferatu
Bloodline Disciplines: Majesty, Nightmare, Obfuscate, Vigor
Nicknames: stiffs, ghede.
Boon: The Samedi have access to the Blood Sorcery of Necromancy.
Weaknesses: The Samedi suffer from the Lonely Curse. In addition, they can only Embrace post-mortem.

Necromancy.
* Twilight Sense (Wits + Occult + Necromancy): no cost. The Samedi may see and communicate with ghosts in Twilight for the rest of the scene.
*Séance (Presence+Occult+Necromancy, 6 success): 1 Willpower. Summon a ghost the vampire knows by name, who must answer truthfully to a number of questions equal to the vampire's Necromancy dots. Further questions may require rolls. The ghost disappears at the end of the scene.
**Cursed Touch (Dexterity + Occult + Voodoo, 8 success, contested by Resolve + Composure): 1 vitae, spent when touching the target. It loses a point of Willpower for each exceeding success obtained by the Samedi on the roll.
**Ghostly Familiar: (Presence+Occult+Voodoo, 7 success, 1 Willpower): The Samedi has "befriended" a Rank 1 ghost (created following the normal rules)., the ghost appears in Twilight close to them. It treats the character as an anchor and must obey their commands for the rest of the scene, after which it returns to the Underworld.
***Raise Zombie (Intelligence+Occult+Necromancy, 8 success): 2 vitae and an talisman crafted by the caster. Animates a corpse as an undead minion. Its speed is reduced to 5, it has 2 dots in Strength and Stamina, and 1 dot in Dexterity, Athletics and Brawl, but all other attributes and skills are reduced to zero. It can understand simple commands from its master, is immune to mind control and reduces lethal damage to bashing, but crumbles if it suffers a single point of damage from fire, if the talisman is taken from it, if its creator enters torpor, or at sunrise. The Samedi may spend 1 Vitae daily to prevent this.
****Friends from the Other Side (Presence+Expression+Necromancy): 15 success, 2 willpower. the Samedi summons vengeful ghosts. The "friends" are considered to be a single Rank 4 ghost. They obey the summoner as long as he succeeds on a Presence + Expression roll before each order he gives. If he fails, his friends may decide to leave, or even turning on him.

So is it okay to discuss the next Scion KS teaser in here since the game doesn't really need its own general?

It is still an OPP game and shit

I'm really excited for it, though truthfully I can't speak to the accuracy of it. I already did my part in starting a whole mess over the Netjer preview, and I'm mostly just really excited to see the revision.

Curious as to how the Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan thing will be handled.

>Curious as to how the Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan thing will be handled.
I think the Mayan pantheon is going to be handled like the Vodoun, in that its something between a new mantle for a whole faith and something else. I mean it could just be a mantle for the god though, fuck if I know

Necromancy here is just a Discipline with two first dots and required successes, not Blood Sorcery. Also, I'd suggest making them a minor Covenant instead, with a Blood Sorcery based on how Ceremonies are handled in Geist. Change the successes required for most of that to [Dots]+2 or something.

If you're going to make them Nosferatu, have it so they can only Embrace a corpse that has been dead longer than their Humanity-10. (Lower Humanity Samedi have to wait longer, and thus will likely have groddier Childer). Be sure to read up on the Posthumous Embrace, though.

I think they've said one is a Mantle of another, but I have to wonder at how Kukulkan feels about hanging out with the much bloodier Aztec gods as Quetzalcoatl. A friend of mine pointed out that the Aztec gods are like fucked-up, evil versions of earlier Mesoamerican gods and it'll be neat to see how Scion handles that.

Truthfully, I'm looking past the release of the corebook because I want to see the Incarnate Genesis that's hopefully going to be in the Companion, as its core to most of my character concepts.

The sorcery's "skeleton" is actually a discipline I made for them some time ago. I was aiming at 2-3 rituals per dot, but I'm not convinced by some of the others I made, especially the higher ones. I'd prefer to have them as Nosferatu to tie them in a bit with the VtM version, but a covenant could work. I'll re-read on the posthumous embrace. Thank you for the comment.

It'll probably be just a slight variation on knack access or something.

What were the VtM version? Also, there's a Baron Samedi inspired bloodline of Ventrue in 1e. They have one milky white eye and have boundary related powers in addition to the whole ghost thing.

How interesting are crone vampires as antagonists for tier 1 hunter?