Hektor Heresy

OK, so I put it that (and you may or may not be that guy) is really a complaint that I didn't hang about in IRC to discuss the course that hasn't yet been written. Now, I know that people in this project are very fond of shadowy cabals, but it seemed to me that it would be better to get the outline done so that it can be discussed in thread.

I'm not sure that's Copypasta. Earlier in the project the idea that we'd just go through the events of the Horus Heresy with the new Legions was pushed and uncritically accepted. Several contributors wrote about things happening at Istvaan, including Golgothos/Alexios. The Entombed page hasn't really been updated since he went off to do his own thing and it seems to me that the mentions of Istvaan are just legacies rather than plagiarism.

>OK, so I put it that (You) (and you may or may not be that guy) is really a complaint that I didn't hang about in IRC to discuss the course that hasn't yet been written.
It was a complaint that you signed off the IRC with a bitchy comment because Asymptotic and I can't read your mind.

>I'm not sure that's Copypasta. Earlier in the project the idea that we'd just go through the events of the Horus Heresy with the new Legions was pushed and uncritically accepted. Several contributors wrote about things happening at Istvaan, including Golgothos/Alexios. The Entombed page hasn't really been updated since he went off to do his own thing and it seems to me that the mentions of Istvaan are just legacies rather than plagiarism.
I hope so.

Regarding the Entombed, the Istvaan-related stuff will have to be rewritten anyway, because Ostium isn't playing quite the same role now. So in the unlikely event that it is plagiarised (and I don't think that's Golgy/Alexios' style), it'll be gone anyway.

If you would like to repeat your concerns about the draft so far, I'm happy to discuss them in thread and rewrite if necessary. But it didn't seem to me that you had concerns about the draft so far except that the Hektor Heresy was (like the Horus Heresy) less than a decade. This was "lame". In my view, the relatively short timeframe just represents the intensity of both conflicts and the efficiency of Warp Travel. (Hopefully fight-fans will be comforted by the prospect of another seven years of Scouring immediately following the Heresy!)

Everything else was directed at what hadn't been written, with questions about the major events of Horus's Heresy. Horus's Heresy doesn't matter in the AU. The Hektor Heresy should follow its own logic, based on a very similar material situation (9 Primarchs a side) but different personalities and different politics.

Now, you could say that there need to be events, but I'm not claiming to have a finished draft. I'm saying that hanging out in IRC and telling a couple of people what I have in mind is clique behaviour. Instead, I should be writing a draft to put in front of everyone interested in the project. Are we clear?

Our Heresy should last considerably longer than the canon heresy. We have no Istvaan, so there are going to be way more loyalists (we have 2 legions getting rekt early on instead of 3), so more loyalists in the war. Plus, No Ultramar and no Imperium Secundus, so more loyalists active in the war, which is good, because we have no Russ for an epic warp-faring navigation montage to get everybody to terra through the warpstorm.

>Horus's Heresy doesn't matter in the AU.
This is objectively false if you insist on following the same timeframe as the Horus Heresy.

If we're keeping to the same timeframe, we have to consider what events stretched the Heresy out to that length, and what events will have to happen in our AU in order to keep the same duration of the conflict.

>Now, you could say that there need to be events, but I'm not claiming to have a finished draft. I'm saying that hanging out in IRC and telling a couple of people what I have in mind is clique behaviour. Instead, I should be writing a draft to put in front of everyone interested in the project. Are we clear?
Not really, because I have to winder why you didn't just say that at the time instead of repeatedly telling us useless information and then leaving with a passive aggressive comment.

>We have no Istvaan, so there are going to be way more loyalists
OK. I will tackle this one bit because it's kinda-sorta in the time frame addressed by the draft so far.

There's no Istvaan, but we do have the Sacred Band. That means there are senior and highly respected veterans in most Legions who have ties of loyalty to Hektor personally. Their influence means that there will be substantial fractions of Loyalist Legions declaring for Hektor and fewer Marines from the Traitor Legions declaring for Terra.

This is what I mean by "Hektor isn't Horus". He is a different person with different strengths. Horus was a gangster-turned-general and got his material advantage with an unexpected knife to the gut. Hektor was an ultra-charismatic personality and got his material advantage because people couldn't help but adore him.

I don't see the point in trying to extend an argument. If you really dislike my approach, just write a competing draft. Then we can weigh the two against one another, decide which outline is generally better and perhaps use material from the weaker candidate to make the best possible synthesis.

>There's no Istvaan, but we do have the Sacred Band. That means there are senior and highly respected veterans in most Legions who have ties of loyalty to Hektor personally. Their influence means that there will be substantial fractions of Loyalist Legions declaring for Hektor and fewer Marines from the Traitor Legions declaring for Terra.
See, it's kind of strange to see you bringing that up, considering that you'd told me they wouldn't make a large difference in numbers, due to disenfranchised traitor officers.

>Horus was a gangster-turned-general and got his material advantage with an unexpected knife to the gut. Hektor was an ultra-charismatic personality and got his material advantage because people couldn't help but adore him.
>Implying that being ultra-charismatic isn't a big part of Horus's whole schtick

Seriously? After all this "it's a group project" talk, your response to appropriate concern is "go write your own"?

>it's kind of strange to see you bringing that up, considering that you'd told me they wouldn't make a large difference in numbers, due to disenfranchised traitor officers.
Why is that strange? I thought it over and decided you were right. Are you saying that you've changed your mind too? That's quite funny!

>implying
Don't be that way. I get that you're annoyed but there's no need to give a pissy response to everything I write.

Shit, sounds like I need to advance my worktable if I want the Dreameaters to be a thing.

I'll begin work on the 12th, but don't expect solid results until the 20th. I still have exams and work

Well, currently several people are writing for that spot. That's all he's saying - he's presenting his idea, you present your's.

Calm down and re-read my post. I didn't say "go off and make Imperium Asunderer". I'm just inviting user to write an alternative treatment. My ideas might be wrong and it's good for the group to be able to say, "No, let's take the other option."

Why do you plan to stick with the Horus Heresy timetable?

I feel that the basic material situation hasn't been changed. The Galaxy is still the same size, the AU Imperium is about as productive as the OU one, Warp Travel is just as fast, so the amount of time necessary to blow up a comparable amount of stuff will be very similar.

Now, I don't think that I am Right about this and other people are Wrong. The length of the Hektor Heresy is really a matter of opinion and taking the same nine year timeframe as the Horus Heresy is arbitrary. It seems to me that if we're adjusting the timeframe, it might be worth considering how any extra years would be filled (or, conversely, how necessary events might be crammed into fewer years). I tend to think that it would be more realistic project-wise to have a shorter Heresy rather than a longer one, but plumping for that would create even more arguments. (So, yes, this is basically the same logic that underpins my preference for 18 Legions.)

I'm aware that there's a "killer" response waiting for me so let me try to defuse it. If we decide on a nine year timeframe, then we just need to make sure that the events within that timeframe make sense, rather than worrying about whether they precisely match up with the events of the Horus Heresy. Rather than thinking, "If there is no Istvaan, then..." it would probably be more productive to think, "In the OU, Horus achieved advantage X in manner B. Would Hektor do something similar, achieve the same sort of advantage in a different way, or instead acquire a different advantage?"

As an aside, it's not really the same timetable in so far as the events along the way are different. I'm not raising this to be pedantic, I just think that anons coming into this discussion midway could be wrong-footed by talk about using "the Horus Heresy timetable" and think that we really do mean to have Istvaans III and V, etc, etc. Talk about "the Horus Heresy timeframe" doesn't have the same implications.

>"If there is no Istvaan, then..." it would probably be more productive to think, "In the OU, Horus achieved advantage X in manner B.
This is literally working with the same issue, you're just approaching it differently. The work is the same. Example: In the OU, Horus achieved advantage "not getting zerg rushed by the loyalists" in manner "fucking with Guilliman's head to make him turtle". At this point asking "How do we compensate for that in our AU" and "how does Hektor compensate for that in our AU" are pretty much the exact same question, save for that the latter has the limitation that it has to be Hektor's doing.

I should add that in terms of rewrites, changing dates is very low impact and probably not worth worrying about at this stage. If we had a settled narrative that worked but the majority of interested parties didn't like the length of the war, it wouldn't be much trouble to stretch or contract the Heresy.

If the approaches address the same issue and do the same work then it sounds like we're in agreement and can get back to writing.

I really want to get back into writing, friends. Who has a thing they want to get involved in?

Hey, been meaning to ask.

Each legion is getting four special characters, including the primarch. Tell me who your remaining three should be, and if they don't exist, could you write them up? They don't have to be complex Shakespearean characters or anything, but an idea of what you'd like would be nice.

Should those four be loyalists, traitors, or a combo?

Ideally speaking, for loyalist legions you'd have more loyalist characters, but it's entirely up to the perogative of the original writer, or in cases where the original writefag is no longer present, I'll just make some shit up.

Let me recover from my drunkenness, and we shall discuss tomorrow.

Where the hell are all the Arabic and generally Middle Eastern chapters and worlds?

Segmentum Pacificus.

1d4chan.org/wiki/Al-Sherar
1d4chan.org/wiki/Ghalhal
1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Saracens

Danke

Mere housekeeping, but someone should swap the Crimson Teeth's link in the 'Space Marine Legions of the Hektor Heresy' box at the bottom of each Legion page with Mastodontii just to avoid confusion.

It's already done on the Template page at 1d4chan.org/wiki/Template:Veeky Forums-Heresy-Legions. Maybe try refreshing the individual pages you're looking at?

I'll present a timeline of events, in a rough greentext format, for the Primarch and legion (separately) later tonight.

This is meant to simply show the direction I want to take them (Think Robin Hood's Merry Men instead of straight up bloodthirsty, criminal yakuza with few redeeming values) and how they would fit into the setting.

This will give me an opportunity to work out major kinks before I engage in any serious work, as few things are set in stone as of yet.

All I ask from the group is that they simply give it a once over and offer their concerns and critique to me so I can make fixes and tailor the Dreameaters to better please the group.

If your only concerns are that they are asiatic and are gang themed, and their Primarch Oni themed, than I'm afraid you may just not enjoy the Dreameaters. But beyond that, I want to tailor them into something most folks can enjoy.

A silent majority were skeptical of the Rosskan Primarch, who's measures were both radical and necessary. Military officers and politicians alike were in fear of Alexandri's true intentions; as the crisis precipitated the necessity for a build up of emergency powers, adding to the already immense power of his position. It would be a blow the Imperium could not recover from if he chose to seize power for himself. These worries never materialized, nor did Alexandri misuse his newfound authority. He implemented an the unimaginable build up of arms and industry in a narrow span of time. The Imperial Army's numbers in the Segmentum Solar nearly doubled from widespread draft. Alexandri's forces also pursued punitive measures against any world which had regiments who surrendered to the Traitors. Imperial fleets destroyed continents to enforce discipline against the very notion of capitulation. The stakes had been set by the Warmaster Regent.

Bump

Hey.

Finally remembered to do this.

1d4chan.org/wiki/Massalia

Thoughts?

livebunker.rocks/chat/int

Anything that makes my life easier is mucho appreciated

Not exactly sure what you mean by that, but happy to be of service.

I'm helping Snek with the Zealots, and Massalia is connected with the Zealots, hence my job becoming easier

Hmm. I'm not sure that this works very well as a sidebar in the "Bloody Star" section. It seems strange to put the focus on the Silver Cataphracts when the narrative is discussing the Black Augurs and Eyes of the Emperor. Alexandri of Rosskar isn't going anywhere and he'll get the spotlight (again) later on.

Alright, slot it in anywhere later on at your digression.

Update on the Heresy draft. Things are hotting up.

1d4chan.org/wiki/Hektor_Heresy

It's funny because Arelex Orannis is on fire.

Here's just a sneak peek that at the xenos race that corrupts Aubrey. Details are not set in stone and I would appreciate feedback.

They are the Hezeyar, an ancient psychic race that have given themselves completely to Chaos. The Hezeyar are humanoid aliens, slightly taller than the average human, with thinner, almost elongated limbs. They do not appear to have much facial muscles, Hezeyar have not been observed to change their facial expression, even when talking. They have two large pupilless eyes, and may be blind given their reaction to visual stimuli. Still, the Hezeyar probably have some other means of sight, as they can move and fight without assistance. Their formidable psychic powers allows them to guide the ships of the traitor legions during the Heresy.

Under their naming conventions, Hezeyar do not have individual names, but are named after their part/role/status in society.

Over a million years ago, the Hezeyar were at the pinnacle of their psychic prowess. Led by the greatest of all, the high king known only as The Hezeyar, they enjoyed relative peace and prosperity, opting to seclude themselves away from primitive races. However, their links to the warp brought danger. Of the Hezayar there were mere billions, and their burgeoning psychic abilities began to outstrip their ability to control it. Millions died in accidents from uncontrollable warpflame, or formed rifts that devoured entire planets.

Desperate for a solution, The Hezeyar sought the help of the Dark Gods within the warp, who were more than happy to oblige. High King Hezeyar created a massive ritual, a sacrifice to the Primordial Gods, seeking their favour and the ability to control the warp as they wish. The ritual was completed, at the cost of the souls of the entire Hezeyar race. Of the High King, most powerful of all, there was no trace. Drinking of the void, the Hezeyar would find their souls replaced by something darker, an essence that could be described as daemonic in nature.

The Hezeyar would soon discover that they had been changed in many ways beyond controlling their psychic ability. Death as a concept was gone to them, they could live forever without dying of old age. The concept of life too was gone, no more Hezeyar would be born. Without their High King, the Hezeyarans would become the willing thralls of the Chaos Gods, immortal agents determined to spread the Primodial Truth. Though war and accident has claimed many Hezeyaran lives since their pact with the Runious Powers, there are still millions of Hezeyar dedicated to their dark masters.

GOOD SHIT

Roman approves

This is good stuff. One point:

>They do not appear to have much facial muscles, Hezeyar have not been observed to change their facial expression, even when talking.
How do they do this? Are they producing all of the talking sounds in their throat and just letting them echo out of their mouth? I also wonder about them eating and drinking without muscles in their face but I guess they could do some snake-like swallowing whole routine.

They'd have to have some musculature in their face to appear humanoid, though i think what Sigma is getting at is that they are not used for communication the way humans do.

As for vocalizations, that's easy. They have syrinx, which is what birds use to produce their wide array of sounds.

Pretty much what Vetro says at On their speech, I was thinking that a couple hundred thousand years of speaking through telepathy does a number on your throat. As for food, I did not think of that. The main reason I mentioned that is because even though they're humanoid with reasonably human characteristics, there's something terribly uncanny valley about them. They're like flesh puppets, they blink too slow and they have little to no facial expressions. Everything about them is frozen in time, from their tech to the Hezeyar themselves.

All existing map of the 40k galaxy are a crime against cartography so I'm correcting that. Well starting to.

I'm debating on if I should make the eastern arc of the Segmentum Solar get closer to the core or if I should leave.

And of course I forget to post the actual image.

It looks great! No pressing reasons to move the border between Solar & Ultima come to mind - were you just thinking of making Solar a bit bigger to balance its size against Pacificus, or is there something that I'm missing?

Mostly just that.

>or if I should leave.
Why not?

>ancient race
>very powerful but dying in the millions
>happen across some space gods
>make a faustian bargain with the malevolent gods
>as a race lose their souls
I feel like I've heard this story before.

Don't forget

>Skeletal, and highly dependent on social caste system

Why does Segmentum Solar have big chunks cut out of the side?

Usually it's to make Pacificus not be 1/10th the size of all the other Segmentums.

;^)

On a more serious note, any similarities to Necrons is accidental and I didn't realise it until your posts. The Hezeyar are based on the idea of 'What if the xenos had a big E who was a lazy fuck?' So instead of taking the fight to the Chaos gods like the human Emperor, he shortcuts it by striking a deal and gets wiped to oblivion as a result. Anything else still comes from needing them to be chaos enough to corrupt the traitor forces during the Heresy, yet not too op as to make chaos win from a million years back. You may ask the question as to why they start a million years back. That is a valid question that I do not have the answer to.

On appearances, they are sadly not skeletons with a caste structure. They're more like grey men, or the XCOM2 sectoids if you want a more accurate scale. They don't have a caste system, their ruling system was a constitutional monarchy before things went all chaos, now everyone is equal in the eyes of the Ruinous Powers. That is, if they are strong enough.

>Sectoids. Not spoopy alium skeltals
>Names are literally their jobs
>Not caste-like

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but I would say that it may be better, and easier, to put this on a canon Chaos Xenos race.

The Ssylth.

>'What if the xenos had a big E who was a lazy fuck?'
The Necrons have one of those too.

>You may ask the question as to why they start a million years back. That is a valid question that I do not have the answer to.
It read like you were rejecting the "Chaos Gods evolved because homo sapiens" story.

Anyway. If the only objections are that the Hezeyar are too explicitly like Necrons, just blur the historical details and give a couple of contradictory accounts. (You could even present the High King narrative above with a warning that its source may have confused the Hezeyar with the Necrons.)

Think of it as an honour thing. You become a governor, your name changes to Governor. You save a bunch of people, your name changes to Saviour. You commit crimes, your name changes to Untrustable. I should have elaborated that their names don't work like our names, it's all fundamentally different

>Was gonna start writing tonight
>GM of my favorite game in years quits because the game got too stressful to run

Well that must suck

>You may ask the question as to why they start a million years back.
cause they did? you don't really need much more than that

Progress slowed down on this thing but the Entombed have been hit with a super-plague, the fate of Tisenjoch has been revealed, and there's a (hopefully) useful strategic round-up to precede the next batch of major events:

1d4chan.org/wiki/Hektor_Heresy

...

Never bump with bump you insufferable human mosquito noise.

Why not?

>Thread almost dead
>No one posting
>Have to be autistic and meaninglessly bump

Just let it die if it's going to die, unless you have something worthwhile to say

>Just let it die if it's going to die, unless you have something worthwhile to say
Okay, why?

Or you know, not get upset over posts on a Pakistani knitting forum

Oh hey guess what? Bump.

And now for actual content before I go to bed.

So everything I can easily find out states that a sector is usually a box with edges of around 200 lightyears or of a volume there abouts. This is pretty respectable chunk of space. Even if you focus on a single segmentum between it and a sector is still vast which is kind of a problem.

Now I could just do a polar grid but that's boring. So instead the galaxy has been chunked up in administrative units below the segmentum but higher than the sector called diocese. The term starts secular but just like with the real life diocese makes the transition into religious life easily.

I've pretty much winged making the borders, starting with separating each arm of the galaxy and then wiggling my way through the perceived clusters on the background and then dividing until I was about satisfied I had a clusterfuck on the order of say the CK2 county map. This is intended to represent a compromise between actual diocese set up by the Imperium during the great crusade, regions of space with common characteristics, former borders of absorbed states, and projected borders for later conquests.

I'll put down some numbers of them so we can start to refer diocese specifically and maybe even begin naming some important ones but that'll happen another day. For now, I'll just share that I'm planning on calling the diocese Sol is in the Golden Belt (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gould_Belt).

I think this is glorious. The regions are big enough to be noticeable, small enough for naming the relevant diocese to be informative. Great work!

Looks great! Good work.

Now comes the labeling.

Or, or, or, and I know this is crazy so just hear me out:

What if we don't go full retard and try to make 40HkH as speshul as possible and just have it be the same as OU to pair down confusion

But if the AU was the same as the OU it wouldn't be an AU. There'd be no point in writing anything about it cause GW's already done that.

Bruh. Drawing some lines on a map is hardly "full retard". Come on now, that's some weaksauce trolling.

Looks really good, dude. That'll give an easy way for people to diagram regions of space, zones of control, paths of Crusades, all kinds of stuff.

Going to update Legion lists when I get home tonight. Expect work to commence 6 central time, should be finished updating the page with my work thus far by 7 central time, though I'll likely keep working on it for most of the night.

List of changes:
Finished first draft of the War Scribes.
Finished first draft of the Black Augurs.
Finished first draft of the Thunder Kings.
Finished framework for Iron Rangers.
Finished framework for the Silver Caraphracts.
Partial work on the Sons of Fire and Void Angels.

Yo Voidwatcher, did you ever settle on some fluff (or at least a name) for that Dreadnought character?

This is good news! Anyone else wanting to check out Josman's WIP can find it at 1d4chan.org/wiki/User:Josman

And now the map has numbers. Also I remembered to turn the scale layer back on.

Naw, I hadn't come up with anything specific or definite. Something like the Tyrant though.

Also, you called the Augurs Blackguard a couple times. Which makes me realize that at this point that's probably a better name, with them becoming Black Augurs after the Heresy.

Wrote something up for that idea I had for the Dark Eldar that waits until the last day of every month to binge.

>Hine’ar the Chaste is a singular presence among the Dark Eldar of the Webway. While other Dark Eldar constantly revel in sadism and gluttony, garbing their thralls in revealing coverings of rags and leather, Hine’ar acts with restraint, holding back much of his fury during raids and dressing his servants in tasteful, modest clothing made of silk and linen as they serve him plain victuals in times of rest. Hine’ar even treats his captives hospitably, serving them fine foodstuffs from his own table and treating them as prized guests. At first glance, it would seem that Hine’ar is not similar to the other denizens of the Webway in the slightest. However, behind this civilized facade is a hungering beast that longs to feast on the flesh and agony of his prisoners, a beast that is intentionally suppressed in order to make the gorging more pleasurable. For on the last day of every month, the beast emerges from its cage. The captives, having atrophied from the rich food and comforting words, are consumed by shock as their generous host and his dutiful servants abandon their pleasant masks and gorge on their flesh and their pain. Once the binge is over, the scraps are swept up, the stains are washed out, and the inner beasts sit sated, waiting raptly for the next chance to feed.

I'd appreciate some criticism and I really hope this doesn't sound edgy

Literally the dark eldar equivalent of edging

That was the intent. I thought it would be interesting if there was a group of Dark Eldar who edged until it was almost unbearable, then gorged.

Do you guys think it's okay the way it is or should I change it beforeI put this on 1d4chan?

Where did you plan to put it?

I was going to put in the "Notable Characters of the Dark Eldar" Section of the page for the Webway Lords and Dark Eldar.

Good enough for me.

Okay, then. I'll put it in

It's in.

Good work, you've now successfully wiki'd.