Gentlemen, how do we fix the sisters of battle?

Sisters should be a shooting-based army with emphasis on short to middle range and faith magic to help them hold up in the inevitable CC.

>Space Marine hunters
The Minotaurs already exist and the Imperium doesn't need yet another TK faction.

>They are between IG and SMs in the power ranking.

See, this is a problem because now the Skitarii have this position.

Minotaurs are just one Chapter.

And nobody knows when the Ultras and their successors will un-person them.

Hmmm. Then I don't know what to do anymore.

A single chapter seems rather limited no matter how well supplied they are.

The militant arm of the ordos hereticus is a great idea.

In anycase, the sisters play a pivotal role in harvesting psykers and bringing them to Terra right? I'd like to see that expanded as the sisters embracing the use of psykers in some capacity. So they'd take a unique position as working towards the Emperor's vision of a super psyker human endgame. Whether consciously aware of this end game or not, the SOB ought to play a role in weeding out the weaker psykers to feed the astronomicon but retaining a large host of psykers to train and use against their enemies.

But also being the best on the scene to deal with psykers (among other things).

More fire.

And change their 'panties on head' helmets.

>They should've been part of the Ordo Hereticus instead being lackeys of the corrupt Ecclesiarchy.
Hereticus works best without a Chamber Militant.
They are investigators and an army is counter-productive to that end.

Also, remember that Vandire was High Lord of the Administratum before he took over the Ecclesiarchy.
And the SoB police the Ecclesiarchy more so then anyone else. They are by far, much more then 'lackeys' of the Ecclesiarchy.

>And the SoB police the Ecclesiarchy more so then anyone else.

And yet they somehow didn't detect a Chaos Worshiper who caused the Abyssal Crusade...

Give them bs and ws 4, some form of fearless (maybe chaplains?), and they would honestly work pretty well with some form of protection while getting up the field. Like drop pods, faster faith fueled vehicles or simply a 5++ army wide or a 4++ on vehicles.

Also I would like to see some built-your-own-saint rules.

SOB? Chaos Worshipper? The Abyssal Crusade was almost entirely about marines. The SOB don't really factor into it at all.

I would like to see more done with the whole 'Double edged sword for the Ecclessiarcny'. It's a cool dynamic.

Although I may have been too harsh since the Abyssal Crusade started at the beginning of the Age of Redemption, hence why the Sisters didn't detect that one guy because they were still starting.

>Swarm of fanatics led by elite units of SOBs.
i.e. Frateris Militia like in their first codex.

To be fair, no one did. He had the unanimous support of the Ministorum, Inquisition, Astartes, and even the High Lords themselves.

As far as fixing what currently exists

>Army wide
The faith system itself isn't too bad, but the effects could use a buff, instead of having a different one for each unit have a pool the can select from, or maybe let each unit purchase different faith powers for a point cost.

>HQ
Canoness needs a cut in price, 65 points is far too much. Let her take more than one relic, and let her take a jump pack.

>ELITE
Celestians need a rethink and something to differentiate them from regular squads, let them purchase more special/melee weapons and artificer armour aswell maybe.
Repentia could do with a points cut and a transport, someway to get them into melee.

>TROOPS
Battle sisters are pretty solid, although they look expensive points wise compare to tactical marines/scouts/CSM. Maybe drop them down to 10 points, what does a scout run at these days?

>FAST ATTACK
Our best slot really, both choices are good, my only complaint is that dominions faith power doesn't work on flamers, but that would be fixed with the rest of the faith system.

>HEAVY SUPPORT
If battle suits and cyborgs are monstrous creatures then these guys really, really should be, they might work better in elites as well.
Retributors are fine, but I'd love a faith power that can give relentless, maybe one for skyfire too.
Exorcists are spot on

Also give them all extra defence against psychic powers.

Rules wise? A way to get into CQC with a reasonable amount of models left. Whether thats a nebulous faith shield or cannon fodder.

Fluff wise? They need a more proactive goal or purpose. There doesnt need to be a super Imperium endgame objective but something they actively are pushing. Because right now the SOB look more reactive than active.

>To be fair, no one did. He had the unanimous support of the Ministorum, Inquisition, Astartes, and even the High Lords themselves.

Yeah. Nobody knew it.

Got more of this?

We had several threads on this topic a few months ago, which ended up producing a Veeky Forums 7e update for Sisters. You can find the resulting rules here: 1d4chan.org/wiki/Codex_-_Adepta_Sororitas:_Veeky Forums_7th_Edition

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Wish listing what could be added to the codex

>GEAR
Make some new special weapons for the holy trinity. Torrent flamers, a lance melta (I have a model of one from the inquisitor game), a salvo bolter.

>DEDICATED TRANSPORT
The army has decent amount of melee units, which really need someway to close the gap. My personal choice would be something open topped, like a modified rhino, or maybe even something more civilian like the GSC.
One upgrade I saw in a fandex that was cool was a pulpit, to allow priests or other independent characters to preach to nearby units.

>HQ
Add a beefed up priest to give the ecclesiarchy a generic hq.
Generic living saints always seem popular, so that too.

>ELITES
Let Arco-flagellants be taken as elites again, or maybe just make battle conclaves elites.
Add another elite sister unit, armed with storm shield and artificer armour, just a solid unit that can absorb charges and hold up elite melee units.

>TROOPS
Add militia, such an obvious choice.

>FAST ATTACK
Some sort of scout Walker pilot by a sister, made from a dual kit with the penitent engine, heavy weapon on each arm.
I've seen some art from the old Horus heresy card game of sisters of silence with crazy steroid dogs and hawks. Take that concept and mount the sisters on some weird cyber steed, like the death korp cavalry or even a Demi-gryph (eagles everywhere), and play them like DE beast masters.

>HEAVY SUPPORT
Another MBT, options for big turret flamers/melta/bolter. I'd prefer something not based on a Rhino, maybe a dual kit with the assault transport?
Give exorcists a soldier option.

>FLYERS
I'd like any flyers to stay imperial navy rather than break fluff and give sisters their own flyers, but I'd love a way to embark my squads on a Valkyrie or arvus lighter before deployment.

I think that would give them a decent sized army, and enough units from both sisters and ecclesiarchy to field an army of either.

Fascinating

What happened to the remaining loyalists?

>800 years in the Eye of Terror
>without logistics
>still a combat capable chapter, if extremely undermanned
>completely clean of any chaos taint
That's some complete mary sue teir bullshit right there.

Most of these got covered in the SoB 7th edition update we made a few months ago: 1d4chan.org/wiki/Codex_-_Adepta_Sororitas:_Veeky Forums_7th_Edition

Time in the warp is weird, it could have been 800 years on the outside, and like 10 minutes in the warp.

Unmentioned, and thus free to be expanded on later, officially or by players. The Vorpal Swords at least are/were still around in M41 and had appeared in fluff before this.

If they ever do revisit the period after the survivors' return, it seems like a perfect opportunity to include the Sisters - helping to bring Basillius down would be exactly the sort of thing they're meant to do.

years in the Eye of Terror
From the perspective of realspace. Within the Eye it could have been a lot shorter... or many times longer.

>>without logistics
I imagine they all would have had to resort to looting and scavenging eventually. Which in itself probably ended up bumping even more of them off the 'pure' list.

Time is basically irrelevant in the Warp, so what was 800 years in realspace might've just been half that time for the Chapters, or even just a few decades.

And I wouldn't call ~25 out of 30 Chapters "taint free".

>Lesser Daemons of the Emperor?
my only problem is this idea is that if ut did happen, then they would end up looking more or less the same, maybe with some shit like wings or a halo added, which just doesn't feel daemonic to me.

If their fluff and appearance were changed enough to keep them looking like warp monsters, then I would be more then okay with it. Maybe it's the teratophiliac in me talking, but having an army of females cut from the same cloth as Bloodletters and Plaugebearers that looks and acts like generic pretty woman sounds not only boring in comparison to other daemons, but also like a lot of wasted potential.

Apart of the Vorpal Blades, nobody knows.

Either dead, corrupted, or somehow alive and trying to still continue their crusades.

All Sisters have this statline and cost 10pts per model, +1 for Scout on Dominions and +3pts for Jump Infantry on Seraphim, +2 on Celestians for +1A and Stubborn.
(Before you cry OP look at SM Scouts that cost 11pt are and 4 on all stats):
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv3+ 6++

Acts of Faith:
Once per game ability per unit, Faith Points per unit is equal to Turn Number. So turn 1 all units have 1 FP, Turn 5 all units have 5.
So the tactical question is do you use your once a game ability early when units are at full strength or later in the game when you have more FP to spend?

+2S per FP spent
+2I per FP spent (I1 weapons strike at +1I per FP spent, so spend 3FP and you strike at I4 with Chainfists (Eviscerators)
+1 To Hit per FP
-2 To Enemy Cover save per FP
+2 Inv save per FP
+1AP on weapons per FP (if at Ap1 get +1 on dmg table, Ap 5 weapons become Ap3 for 1FP).
+2-3" Range per FP (Flamers get 2-3" Torrent per FP, so spend 4FP and your flamers can be placed 8-12" from the model
1 of the following per FP : MTC, Fleet, Rage, Furious Charge, Rending, Shred, Preferred Enemy, Fearless, Relentless
Fire Weapons again for 3 FP
+1 to Invulnerable Save for each FP spent

If Sisters got the above they would instantly go from bottom tier to high mid tier. They'd still be shit but allot less so.

>+1AP on weapons per FP (if at Ap1 get +1 on dmg table, Ap 5 weapons become Ap3 for 1FP).
What the fuck are you smoking.

> Should be: Ap 5 weapons become Ap4 for 1FP

I'm smoking codex Eldar, SM, Admech, Skitarii, GKs, Deathwatch, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Tau, Necrons and Dark Angels, Chaos Legions. All of which contain weapons, wargear or special rules that work the entire game and have lower AP than all Sororitas weapons (other than Meltagun). Act of Faith would last for one phase once per game.

So giving your bolters or flamers better AP for one phase once per game is hardly game breaking compared to what other armies get.

Here's how faith should work

>Distinction between living saints which are for all intents and purposes, greater daemons of the Emperor and those merely blessed with his power.

>Living saints are sanguinor

I just want this meme to die.

fold them in with Sisters of Silences and make them the anti-pysker faction of the Imps

Sisters are superfluous; get rid of them.

> Somewhere between a MEQ and a GEQ, much like the Tempestus Scions
> Guns-and-flamers role already taken by Salamanders
> Angel aesthetic already taken by half the Space Marines
> Fanatic religious theme already taken by Black Templars

Either roll them into the Astra Militarum as an Elite choice or just turn them into female Space Marines. Or let them die and move on.

There is literally no counterargument to this.

No no no, that's a really bad system and not at all competitive in todays game.

Flaws in that system are having to roll higher or lower than models of models in a unit which leads to restricted army construction based on what you want to do.
Flaw in the number of Faith Points you get, it becomes better to spam small units to get more Faith Points to use with Divine Guidance on large units.

It's a bad system compared to the one I suggested and my system does the exact same thing but is more competitive with todays power creep.

To elaborate:
This is a dawn of war spawned meme, the codezis treat them as badass normals. Even the Saint Celestine Miniature isn't angelic, it merely uses dove to hold her cape like wings;the model itself is human.
Her survival etc could jsut be a coincidence that was given reason in the aftermath, though that fuff was written in the more atheistic olden days of 40k.
The farthest i'd go with is the depiction of daemonifuge, but it has it's own problems.

There should just be Codex: Inquisition.

Among the HQs are Inquisitiors from Hereticus, Xenos, and Malleus.

Take an Inquisitor to take units from that Ordo as Troops. Hereticus = Sisters, Xenos = Deathwatch, Malleus = Grey Knights.

You get bonuses vs Imperium, xenos, or Chaos depending on your HQ as well.

And you are retarded and there is no counter argument to this...

Sisters place is right in between IG and SM, IG S/T/I with SM BS (sometimes WS) and some wargear.

Saying Sisters are superfluous is like saying all SM chapters are too, and Dark Eldar, GSC, Admech, Skitarii.

If you don't want sisters then play 30K, is has all the SM cock you can choke on.

Just an idea, to give them a place gameplaywise:
Make them focus more on pole weaponry, which is more symbolic of being guardians; it also makes them hit hard in the first phase of combat. Add hit&run.

So now you have mid range shooters like most of the armies, but with the added gimmick of doing that run into melee and trying tog et out again for the next midrange shooting.

Also let them use flamers or rather burning flamefields to contorl the battlefield by creating fields of dangerous terrain for the enemy that stay for 1 or 1d3 rounds.

>Turn one
>pop faith on all melta guns and pop all the SM vehicles
>Turn two
>Top faith on all other units, making all the bolters AP3 and reducing cover by 2.

Is this bait or pasta?

Give them Stormravens.

Turn 1 you have 1 faith point, how exactly are you going to pop all SM vehicles with your short ranged Melta guns? Or are the SM deployed within 12"?

Turn 2 you have 2 FP, so you could get Ap3 bolters or Ap4 bolters with -2 cover saves.

If you did this on all your units you would have no faith left and simply get overrun by the far superior SM units. Perhaps you should play the game before you talk shit out your ass.

It is not a meme though. They are literal daemons of the Emperor. There are 2 in the entire imperium, thats hardly impossible or crazy.

Tau are superflourous; get rid of them.

> Somewhere between a MEQ and a GEQ, much like the Tempestus Scions
> Guns-and-more-guns role already taken by Iron Warriors
> Alien aesthetic already taken by most the Xenos
> Shooty based xenos already taken by Necrons

Either roll them into the Eldar as an Elite choice or just turn them into blue Orks. Or let them die and move on.

Squat the bitches

At the beginning of your turn, units may use an act of faith. To use an act, simply declare which act you are using. You may attempt to boost some powers using one or more faith points. To do so, remove one faith point and roll leadership.

You gain one faith point for the following:
Whenever a faithful unit dies
Whenever a faithful character dies
Whenever a unit of Martyrs dies
Whenever an opposing Psyker is killed
Whenever an opposing psychic power is denied

All units have the following acts of faith:

>Spirit of the Martyr
Until the start of your next turn, casualties from this unit are ignored. Remove this unit from play at the end of your opponent's turn. Units locked in combat may consolidate.
Faith: you may use an additional power

>Light of the Emperor
Add 1 to this unit's Shield of Faith until your next turn
Faith: Increase by +2 instead

>Divine Guidance
Pen/Wound rolls of a 6 Ignore Cover
Faith: Pen/Wound rolls of a 6 become Ap2
>The Passion
Add +2 to the unit's initiative
Faith: Ignore Unwieldly

>Hand of the Emperor
+2S, Unwieldly
Faith: Relentless

>Units

>Canoness
Adds 1 Faith
Gains jump pack
Can use 2 acts
AoF - Boost without point or test

Command Squad
As Celestians or Seraphim but add:
AoF - Reroll failed saves

Celestians
Adds 1 Faith
Following options:
Exchange bolter for power weapon, combi-weapon, storm shield, Evicerator
Pistol for power weapon, plasma, inferno, or flamer pistol
AoF - Furious Charge

Seraphim
+1 Faith
Can use pistols in CC (d3) for hand flamers
AoF - +1S to pistols

Doms
AoF - +6" range/Torrent

Retributers
AoF - Monster/Tank Hunter

Repentia
Martyrs, FnP 4+
AoF - Remove casualties at end of turn

What they've got now is good, the strength is definitely what they can put out in terms of flamers.

more units, more distinct differences between Orders, more customization options.

This, and scouting meltas.
The only thing they are clearly outclassed by is the fact that things like gladius exist.

>Saying Sisters are superfluous is like saying all SM chapters are too

>implying people don't say this all the time

>Dark Eldar

Which are nothing like CWE.

>GSC
>Admech
>Skitarii
>implying those aren't superfluous mini-dexes

...

t. ADB

That, or Sanguinor is an example of what happens when a space marine becomes a living saint themselves.

Sisters of Battle are morale tatted up gung ho Space Marines desperate for battle so they don't get assigned to pose as prostitutes or Slaanesh cultists.

What would the Sisters be like, then, if they were all daemonic and freaky?

Make them literal female space marines stat for stat on paper. They already have most of the equivalent units. Also make different type of Saints instead of mixing Inquisition units into the army composition to fill in slots.

>Normal Saint = Elites choice equal to a dreadnought
>Great Saint = HQ choice equal to an Avatar of Khaine
>Grand Saint = Imperial Knight tier
>Almighty Saint = Forgeworld Lord of War tier

Also make Sister termies, make Orders have Chapter equivalent rites which make players specialize in tactics like pure flamers, pure melta, pure melee, etc, and give Sisters Volkite weapons to make them models sell.

They should be able to pray to gain massive boosts in a single turn, or have it triggered when they take losses via martyrdom via certain conditions.

>Make them literal female space marines stat for stat on paper. They already have most of the equivalent units. Also make different type of Saints instead of mixing Inquisition units into the army composition to fill in slots.

You can already do this with regular space marines, just say they are female and that the first edition 40K fluff supports this.

Sisters ARE NOT SM, they are a step below SM and above guard in terms of stats.

Why? WS/BS 4 with 3 on the rest would be enough and a base cost of 10pts per model.

There you go, a more elite army than guard but not as powerful as SM.

This.

They could be powered by relics and prayer leaders to maintain their excellent stats and when these critical faith units are killed then their stats revert back to humans.

just make plastic fucking models
I don't fucking care if it's just the basic squad, 80$ for 10 monopose models is ridiculous

yeah at think point Games Workshop should have make female Space Marines canon so they have an excuse to pulled in Steven Universe's Jasper in canon like they want to (no really they're fans of the show)

Battle Sister Squad
4 sisters & 1 Sister of Superior + up to 15 Sisters at 14 pts/model

>Stats
WS 4, BS 4, S 3, T 3, W 1, I 4, A 1, LD 8, 3+/6++

>Equipment:
Bolter, Bolt pistol, Grenades
Sister Superior Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Grenades

1 Sister in 5 can buy a flamer for 5 pts, a meltagun for 10 pts, heavy flamer or plasma pistol for 15 pts

1 Sister in 10 can buy an Eviscerator for 25 pts

The Sister Superior can buy a hand flamer or melta bomb for 5 pts, a combi-flamer/melta for 10, or a power weapon for 15

>Special Rules
Act of Faith: Once per game the unit can increase all their stats except Wounds and Armor Save by 1.

Adamantium Will

Stubborn

>sisters
>14 PPM

They should cost as much as Stormtroopers.

see
1d4chan.org/wiki/Codex_-_Adepta_Sororitas:_Veeky Forums_7th_Edition

>over costed shit, somehow less playable than the real codex

No.

>Eviscerator for 25 pts
Just kill this sacred cow already.
Chainfists cost that much on a Marine because a Chainfist on a WS4 S4 T4 I4 Sv+2/++6 Terminator is really fucking good.

As Sisters are NOT terminators, the identically statted Eviscerator should be much cheaper.
15 points max.

>Chainfists cost that much on a Marine because a Chainfist on a WS4 S4 T4 I4 Sv+2/++6 Terminator is really fucking good.
Chainfists are 5 pts on termies

In that case make the Eviscerator 5-10 points. Maybe give it a premium for being fuck-awesome and giving a squad an unusual method of warfare, but for fuck's sake, don't just make it a guaranteed waste of points.

Eviscerators typically cost 30 pts. When you take in the fact that you can buff the unit once per game guaranteed to WS5 & S4 I think a 5 pt discount isn't unreasonable.

Their specialty is special weapon spam and units that very in their spam focus. Give them a new weapon that only they can get that fills a middle role like an Assault 3 S4 AP3 mid rang weapon with a pistol and heavy version.

otherwise fix some of the existing units slightly, make penitent engines MC instead of walkers, let Seraphim use their pistols S and AP in close combat (fitting their fluff and making them not suck in the assault, not to mention would make inferno pistols not insanely over-costed), up Retributors costs a bit and give them relentless (or make relentless their AoF) to make Multi-melta not pointless, maybe make Dominions infiltrate instead of scout.

Proxy them with Space Marines.

Truthfully I've never played Marines, I was just repeating what I've heard elsewhere.
Still, 5 points?
Yet Sisters have to pay through the bloody nose for them

So once per game you can MAYBE have the unit hit as hard as a Marine and that means a 5point Marine weapon must be worth an extra twenty five.

GW loves it's poster boys.

It'll hit harder, actually and it's not a matter of 'maybe' it's a matter of will. You'll note they don't have to pass a LD test to get their act of faith off. It just happens.

What's a Powerfist worth to a Marine?
Because a Chainfist is a PF with added antitank bonus so that 5pts addition is likely on-top of the built in PF cost.

A powerfist costs 25 pts for a muhreen.

>hit harder
>S4
Sorry, I'm missing something here.
Have Marines been demoted to S3 recently?

The one from soulstorm is no 1
Who is the other?

Sanguinor?
That Blood Angel's Celestine.

>WS 5
>I 5
>A 2
You are missing something here, namely that they'll get more quantity and quality

Sorry, i just thought we were only talking about the sobs

Eviscerated are the same as Chainfists, Hit last in combat.
So only S4 WS5 and A2 count here.
And for a once per battle power-up, 25 pts is still too much.
Especially as you have sisters at 14 pts as is.

>Eviscerated
Eviscerator.
Damn auto correct.