Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Storm Shields aren't legal on Tartaros.

Wow, I never noticed that. Saves me a lot of hassle luckily enough.

"Standard" terminator armour means Indomitus (40k) armour?

I'm looking at the Great Crusade legion book and I don't see where it says they can upgrade to Cataphractii. I assume they can though, but do they get the Cataphractii bonus?

Since last weekend user posted comments on Master of Mankind and tuns out...remember how Emps couldn't bring himself to kill Horus despite being an explicit traitor and killing hawkboy, until his act of mentally flaying a regular human showed him that his son was long gone, consumed by the powers of chaos?

Well turns out Emps isn't that fond of the primarchs so there is not much love that would make him stop his hand against "Sixteen" on the Vengeful Spirit. Expect heavy(er) retcons.

But I made that image because we were talking about Kyme and user said he was a manlet, so another one said he was harmless yet I said "come on look at him, he'd set user on fire if he knew he would get away with it".

One thing led to another and Gouldie's and ADB's pics were made.

I mean, I hope it happened just a week ago intead of two. Not being able to recall entire weeks has become worringly normal for me

Sorry, I meant Tartaros. It says "any unit may exchange its Terminator armour for Cataphractii pattern armour for free."
But I don't see that for Tartaros, and it just describes their wargear as "Terminator Armour".
Meanwhile the Command Squad's terminator option differentiates between Tartaros and Cataphractii in the same option choice (but doesn't list "regular" Termie armour?).

I don't see much of a problem.

these pics haha, nice work. I would call Kyme 'he that cannot be read' since I can't actually get past a few of his pages.

Well shit the emperor is now an even colder bastard than he was already. I always personally thought people thinking the emperor was a good guy was a bit bullshit. I mean he is a ruthless conquerer.

As for more retcons, I just found out they killed alpharius for no real reason. They could literally kill all the traitor primarchs in a drop ship accident and I don't think I would care.

Great Crusade book is outdated. You want Age of Darkness legions.

On the plus side it did show that Emps has humanity's best interests at heart and cares nothing for glory.

Ghengis Khan and Alexander the Great were also warlords. They still had human emotions and could love people.

ADB ruined the Emperor because the Emperor actually cared about the Primarchs. That's why Sanguinius and Ferrus dying and 9 of the Primarchs betraying him is tragic. They were his SONS. They could've had a family of brotherly and fatherly love.

Now he refers to them by their serial numbers like they're fucking UPS packages in transit, and clearly doesn't care at all.

I can handle grimdark when the tragedy happens to human characters, but making everyone in the setting massive assholes doesn't make it a tragedy, or grimdark, it makes it a bunch of assholes jerking off in each others faces for no fucking reason, except to contrive a reason for their falls when random chance and misunderstandings should be enough.

Oldfluff made the Emperor a flawed man who couldn't relate to most of humanity, and came across as uncaring when, in reality, he cared more than anyone and was too autistic to show it properly. Horus was justified because it made the Emperor LOOK like he only cared for them as tools, and two right characters fighting is tragic.

Newfluff just makes Horus right because ADB plays Chaos.

>Thin your lens

>They still had human emotions and could love people.
But Gengis Khan is seen a conqueror first and a person second. You're a person only to yourself and those who love you, user.
Why can't be He a ruthless conqueror AND also a loving guy? Because he is still a good guy no matter what he calls the Primarchs, he has mankind's interests over his own, says it correctly.

Besides, he's a Master of Manipulationkind. Several of the parts where he's "badmouthing" primarchs happen when talking to his tribune, whom already has a bad impression of them.

Ah, thanks, the army list.

Show me your Praetors! I'm waiting on a bitz order to build mine and I'd like to see yours.

>Newfluff just makes Horus right because ADB plays Chaos.

Nope, stop eating dick by lying. The new fluff makes it clear. The Emperor is a gigantic asshole but the Chaos Gods are way worst. Heck, the fluff even showed that Horus is being deluded and manipulated by the gods who don't care if he wins or loses. He is just puppet and he destined to die a puppets death when the Chaos Gods mockingly abandon him to die at the hand of his creator. He is the biggest sucker ever was.

I am all for criticism but you shouldn't lie like that. It's like sucking a dick in public. Slurping it shamelessly in front of everyone for attention and drama. Stop it.

>Why can't be He a ruthless conqueror AND also a loving guy?
Because it's clearly shown, from his own words, that he only thinks about primarchs as tools. We already knew that the emperor cared about humanity, not his personal glory. But a big driving force about the horus heresy was that he cared for his sons, not this 'I will face the 16th' bullshit where he only thinks of them as tools, and seems to care more about the custodes. A big part of the story is the final battle, where he can't defeat horus, not because he's too powerful, but because the Emperor still thinks of him as his son. And only through extreme rage, where he knows that he's completely lost him, does he truely fight back. But nope, thats going to be gone now, replaced with a mindless, boring sequence where horus is in fact more powerful than the emperor.

It's so fucking cliche and boring. Not to say that the old fluff was 10/10 amazing, but it had a good feeling to it. This is just generic crap.

>Now he refers to them by their serial numbers like they're fucking UPS packages in transit, and clearly doesn't care at all.

lol.

That's a fair argument. I'm a chaosfag so I never really thought of it like that. I always felt Big E failing to take Mars properly and never offering such a sweet deal to anyone else was shit of him. After that it was take a knee or die standing.

Yeh I'm sure he could be both, but in the end ruthless conquering would win. And friendship and family would be sacrificed on the altar of victory.

I think I'm just an edgelord. Seems like I would like MoM. haha.

What bitz are you getting?

>The Emperor is a gigantic asshole but the Chaos Gods are way worst.
Of course the Chaos gods are worse...but why is He an asshole?
I meant why as in why won't BL write him as such? You know they're not mutually exclusive things.
>And friendship and family would be sacrificed on the altar of victory.
Lest one sacrifice oneself. The bit I liked of Outcast Dead was the fact that He already knew He wasn't going to survive 30k

The Emperor said clearly that he loves the Custards. He considers them his sons and friends. Each one of them dying hurts him emotionally.

The primarchs are just bio-weapons. Nothing more and nothing less. A means to an end.

>The final fight

Will be scrapped because

1) The Emperor doesn't value a bio-weapon over humanity's future
2) The Emperor being stronger than the mightiest beings in the Warp makes zero sense. he is just a man-god. They are TRUE GAWDS. Also it's been established that the Emperor cannot draw close to the beings (Chaos Gods) whom he stole his powers from. This would be really harmful to him. Add to that that the Emperor couldn't beat a single Undivided Daemon. So Empowered Horus should be more than capable of breaking the Emperor regardless of if he was serious or not
3) The Emperor and Pius are not under good terms with each other. Pius loathes the Emperor.

>The bit I liked of Outcast Dead was the fact that He already knew He wasn't going to survive 30k

I didn't really like that.
It's basically just cribbing Sanguinius' shtick.

>but why is He an asshole?

Because his uncle killed his dad.

>I meant why as in why won't BL write him as such?
they won't because they want the 40k universe to be even more 'grimdark' than it used to be, and the story of the emperor being kind and treating primarchs like sons is considered old lore 'propaganda'

and apparently the best way to write grimdark is to make everyone unlikable douchebags.

Wait what. He loves his fucking golden secret service jobbers over his fucking generals? He loves the guys who do jack shit over the ones who conquered the galaxy. Wow.

> unlikable douchebags.

John-G , Alivia-S, O-Pius, Loken, and a lot of other characters are really likeable, though.

>The Emperor refers to the primarchs by their number and never actually cared about them as more than tools/weapons

Is this shit for real? Why?

>The primarchs are just bio-weapons
I know Emps loves his Custodes (or so He claims), but arguably EVERYTHING in 30k/40k is a bioweapon. So were Thunder Warriors, so are Astartes and Custodes, so are the Primarchs, so are all orks, eldar and tyranids, etc.

If he likes someone and dislike someone else, well that's up to him, but don't say it's because weapons.
>they won't because they want the 40k universe to be even more 'grimdark' than it used to be
I don't know. It was pretty damn grimdark when the Emperor was the only good guy in the galaxy, forced to endure eternal undeath, his children either dead or communing with the warp.
I mean, it's so sad people who like NTR would get high on the setting.
All Custodes grew up with the Emperor and He raised them, but only one Primarch had the same bond with Him. And I'm not talking about Horus.
But yeah, it's not like the Primarchs didn't pull their weight, yet all of them were flawed and tainted by the warp-kidnapping

I'm getting a bunch of bitz to build 3 praetors for some build diversity. I've got a couple of Red Scorpion Honour Guard Torsos and (counts-as Legatine) Axes, a Templar Brethren Archaeotech pistol, a volkite charger, volkite serpentas, Mk 2 Command Head, a Mk 2 torso, some helmet crests, a FW UM Head, a thunder hammer and Vanguard Plasma pistol, a BaC Chaplain, a Paragon Blade, a Sigmarine Shield and arms, legs and backpacks for them all coming in. I'm building one as inspired by pic related, but the others I don't have a solid plan yet.

What are thooooooose

ADB has daddy issues.

That's quite an undertaking, best of luck with it.

Do you think there's a place for an imperial guard regiment that's inspired from RL Panzer Lehr?

which primarch?

Thank you. I might skip some of the fancier trim on the arms and avoid the chest eagles, but I'm hoping to do the pic justice. Unfortunately it's looking like at least another weekend before my order comes in.

Reposting my Word Bearers because people were too busy with shitposting about ADB last thread.

Not really. Remember, the Emperor is defined by the people he's interacting with. The person who sees him - at that moment - is Arkan Land, who is a scientist first and foremost. He also sees the Emperor specifically as a scientist.

Nice. Is that writing on the knees? Looks cool.

Are those two new secutarii units worth using?

...

>He also sees the Emperor specifically as a scientist.
Because He is :^) :^) :^) :^)

I hate to be about six levels behind everyone, but I only realised I'd been reading an out-of-date book when user told me and now I have to re-check my whole list.

Surpised me to see the Primus Medicae can no longer take power fists, chainfists, boarding shields or paired lightning claws.

Anyway, is it legal to give him the Imperial Fist "Solarite Gauntlet" or is that a power fist, as "rules as intended" would seem to imply? How about the storm shield? Is a TH/SS primus medicae possible?

I don't have my books on me atm, but it depends on how the entries are worded. As an example, if the Solarite Power Fist entry says something like "characters/independent characters may replace CCW with a Solarite Power Fist" I'd say that's fair and allowed, even if the character doesn't get other normal CCW options (unless the restrictions are something mentioned in the rules that explicitly state the Primus can't take upgraded weapons or something to that effect)

Ignoring ADB/BL for one moment and let's talk about something else.
1: What are you working on right now?
2: Can you share with us the mini you have most recently finished?
3: Any games coming up?
4: How did your last game go?

The Thirteenth Wolf or Children of Sicarus link?

Such links do not exist at the moment, and is it unknown if such links will appear in the meantime. Please take an appointment, and come back in five months.

1: Fixing some Mechanicum.
2: Out right now, sorry.
3: Christmas themed apoc game tomorrow. Santa vs Krampus
4: Dark Eldar vs Mechanicum. It's amazing how many jinks he failed due to minus one cover save.

Yeah, it's not a replacement for a power fist, it can be taken by any independent character with the option to take a thunder hammer, for the same point cost.

Alright! I do believe Medicae can take Thunder Hammers so if that's the case, you're good to go.

Don't forget Mr Based himself.

Yeah, it seems like a RAW "loophole", though maybe an FW email would answer this.

I like the Emprah basically being Dr. Manhattan. It makes more sense.

>3: Christmas themed apoc game tomorrow. Santa vs Krampus
I'm intrigued. I need to know more.
>4: Dark Eldar vs Mechanicum. It's amazing how many jinks he failed due to minus one cover save.
>mfw
user, Space Roman Super Science was not meant to be used for seal clubbing, even if those seals are edgy space elves who suck in this edition. He at least he got off on his suffering right?

1: Writing up an IG version of Panzer Lehr
2: Nope, but it's a whole lotta squads of guardsmen. Not very high quality. I need numbers.
3: Yep, doing a campaign versus a friend who has an army of orks. We keep any minis we kill, and count up at the end of the year. 5th game is next week.
4: See answer number 2.

Guilliman, Sangy, Vulkan, and Khan have all been made out to be "likable". Hell even Praetorian of Dorn made Dorn likable.

Then there's endless amounts of likable secondary characters.

Having a 40,000 year old immortal warlord of near god-like power be detached is fine. I think it's going to be revealed he does care about Horus deep down anyway.

>2: Nope, but it's a whole lotta squads of guardsmen. Not very high quality. I need numbers.
That's basic IG 101.
>IG Panxer lehr
Go on.

He says that to a Custard who doesn't like the Primarchs, a Custard who he's emotionally manipulating the entire book, read between the lines mang

He did ask me to go hard in the paint for that game. He also said his nuts hurt afterwards. So yes?

Christmas games looks pretty cool. There will be presents on the table that units can unwrap. These can be anything from apoc assets too ugly sweaters from Grandma that don't let you use cover. Also, all gargantuans and super heavies are free because on Christmas, everyone gets toys!

It doesn't seem like a loophole to me, but if you want to email FW to give you some peace of mind, I won't stop you. It's in the rules and the language looks pretty clear to me. If we were playing a game, I'd have no problems letting you run a Solarite Fist.

>He did ask me to go hard in the paint for that game. He also said his nuts hurt afterwards. So yes?
In that case the seal clubbing was okay. Just how hard did you go?
>Christmas games looks pretty cool. There will be presents on the table that units can unwrap. These can be anything from apoc assets too ugly sweaters from Grandma that don't let you use cover. Also, all gargantuans and super heavies are free because on Christmas, everyone gets toys
>Magos finds a STC for ugly sweater

Basically read the Ciban Chasseurs, went 'oh shit, Heresy IGs actually have tactics and organization?' and thought about either editing a poorly fleshed out regiment, or creating my own part. Would use Blitz and/or Deep Strike doctrines, along with mechanized cavalry. Their main goal: preserve precious armour and manpower. Armour because it's expensive, manpower because the more soldiers survive, the more trained and powerful they become. The Panzer Lehr would be the result of that doctrine: trainers being put onto the field to observe combat, and go back to update their teaching techniques. No idea if this fits into Heresy, I've just discovered this while browsing 1d4.

>I always felt Big E failing to take Mars properly and never offering such a sweet deal to anyone else was shit of him. After that it was take a knee or die standing.
It's because the Emperor's army wasn't shit without mars' tech, and would likely have lost to what the cogboys would have thrown together.

Converted from sevatar and some other stuff

February 2016.

the thumbnail looks like a tyranid termagant...

Book 7 is available February 4th.

That is certainly a painted miniature.

Someone explain to me what was supposed to be Horus' real plan for Terra, assuming that Magnus had been killed as he wanted.

The Emperor, Custodes and Sisters would be entirely focused on fucking him up due to no webway war. He wouldn't have had any Thousand Sons at his disposal to dismantle the psychic barriers of the Palace.

Horus is retarded.

No, please no sigmarine bits. They're far too large for marines.

Chaos: Not even once.

>Someone explain to me what was supposed to be Horus' real plan for Terra, assuming that Magnus had been killed as he wanted.
>The Emperor, Custodes and Sisters would be entirely focused on fucking him up due to no webway war
You do know Magnus fucked up the Webway BEFORE the Burning of Prospero, right? No, of course you don't.
And Horus wanted both the TS and SW to kill each other, but it turns out the TS for some reason declared for him.
He wasn't expecting anything and got something, win-win.
>He wouldn't have had any Thousand Sons at his disposal to dismantle the psychic barriers of the Palace.
>Needing witches to siege a place
Do you even siege?

Magnus destroyed web way wall before Horus even planned attack on terra.

>He wouldn't have had any Thousand Sons at his disposal to dismantle the psychic barriers of the Palace.
>Implying that's anyway a bad thing
TSons job user, it's what they do.

There's a tradeoff: in the old fluff, the traitor primarchs were just stereotypical bad guys - Horus's fall didn't make as much sense when the Emperor was a nice guy. The story really depended on Horus being possessed by a daemon after "falling ill" on Davin, and that's stupid. It means he was nothing more than a tool (ironically enough) of Chaos, with no agency of his own.

Now the traitors are interesting and sometimes even relatable. Yes, it's gone too far the other way, but I still think it works better than the old fluff.

Time to write a Lion King sequel in which Simba conquers the continent but half his sons go rogue.

Well the newer fluff about his fall is equally stupid, it was better when his actions depended on a chaotic evil third party than "I hope I don't become unemployed when we win the crusade"

>pic related
I don’t think the shields are THAT bad, sizewise. It's there for me to experiment with and potentially use. The shield cost me like a $1.50 and was mainly there to put me over the free shipping threshold.

Oh, the shields? Yeah those are cool.

This mini is a great statement about how all legions can use all marks to great effect. Good job user

>mixing mk4 and mk3
[muffled screeching]

Cool model. Sigmarine shields are pretty solid. Shame they're not quite good enough for breachers, since they lack a gun hole, or a decent spot to carve out a gun hole.

Full disclosure: this is unfortunately not mine but it is something I aspire to. It was something that came up when Googling 30k Ultramarines.

Still, most depictions of roman legionnaries have them wearing those rectangular shields, without any hole or indentation on which to place a spear.

And it's UM the only one who can make testudo marines.

Yup, sorry IF, you tried. But you still have TH/SS termies. Unless you mention Firedrakes, that is.

PULLO, GET BACK IN FORMATION

So first wersion some guardsman stand before Horus and gave badass speech before he was obliterated.
Now this guy is 45k old perpetual with some mission. thank you Dan Abnett
Still i prefered Custodes wersion, how the fuck guardsman will get on VS during the siege?

>It means he was nothing more than a tool (ironically enough) of Chaos, with no agency of his own.
But that's exactly what he is now. A delusional tool who thinks he's taking over while in reality being manipulated to start off the Long War.

That's the one thing that hasn't really changed in comparison to the old fluff. All Chaos does is pull the wool over your eyes. It slowly twist your perceptions and makes you an unwitting pawn.

Russ.

Emps probably teleported up everyone in an area. Some poor chucklefuck Guardsman got a little too close.

NO I CAN TAKE THEM GUYS

Right, but I want my tortoise (ultra)marines with guns, rather than swords. It'd require some pain in the ass reconstructive surgery to make it work.

>and gave badass speech before he was obliterated.

I thought he was literally the original Leroy Jenkins/Forest Gump and just charged out of hand. That version appealed more to me, because it underscored the "low versus the mighty" angle, where the Emperor was reminded of the simple faith/desire to be free from the Chaos gods that the commoners in the Imperium had.

>So first wersion some guardsman stand before Horus and gave badass speech before he was obliterated.
No, first version had an terminator (later replaced by custodian) stumble in and get torn apart.

The whole guardsman thing was 41st millennium myth that some random regiment subscribed to for some reason.

>45k old perpetual with some mission
>Long forgotten contingency plan by Big E
>There on VS because Big E told him to 45k years ago.