Warhammer 40,000 general

I was the guy who asked about GSC in the last thread, thank you all for the replies. Would the Deathwatch board game be the best purchase for starting a GSC army?

FW Mk VI kits, but get them from China.

A) unless you're playing against wysiwyg shitlers, bolter/missile launcher is legal. (swap CCW for bolter)

B) you are mixing weapons. NEVER MIX WEAPONS. give each squad a job, and equip them to do that job and do it well.

C) your razorbacks are not for transportation, they are one of your cheapest sources of anti-tank with actual range, use accordingly.

D) take a dread instead of artemis for command, cheaper, and vastly more effective.

Its a true shame that Dreadaughts cant have DW-fragcannons. They would rock with them.

Yeah, you get less options than the full boxes, but it's great for cheap bodies for starting your army.

What is the viability for casual play on these guys?

I know bikes are better in every way, but can they work at all?

This thread's topic. Pick a faction from the list and post your ideas.

How do we fix:
>Dark Eldar
>Tyranids
>Orks
>Grey Knights
>Blood Angels

Yes but get another player that wants deathwatch so you can get two sets of GSC

They Rock with night Lords, Emperor's children alpha legion and world bearers.

It isn't bad, but the regular neophyte kit is one of the most baller kits GW has released in a long time

>comes with ten autoguns
>and ten shot guns
>all the heavy weapons
>lots of different heads
>all the power weapons

Black Legion Raptor Talon or Night Lords CAD are your best bets. Death Guard should also do okay.

Nid medium and big bugs should be able to either join or LOS wounds onto gant blobs.

Grey Knights:

minor points drop per model on terminators, heavier drop on strikes.

some method of allowing assault from deep strike on a limited basis with disordered charge. possibly only when using GoI.

the real problem grey knights have is lack of reasonable and reliable anti-armor, and the fact they are slow once they make use of deep strike.

terminators as troops is nice, but unless they get a serious points drop for what they are now or terminators just get better somehow (either +1 w or +1 t under current system) they'll continue to have problems. the largest challenge as a grey knight player is how few wounds you have for points invested, and the proliferation of AP2 is noticeable.

Is raptor talon black legion only? I don't have the new book yet.

Oh what, really? I could have used all that shit for my Guardsmen. I gotta start getting those kits.

Which army has the most autistic players?

Rules when?

>never stormbolter
Why? I want to shoot bolter shots and then charge.

>mixing weapons
No I'm not, I've got a close combat squad which is running meltaguns (assault weapons) so they can pop transports and charge the occupants, then the black shield gets angry and swings the heavy thunder hammer a lot.

I've got a missile launcher squad with a stormshield serg to stand infront and get shot a bunch

Then I've got a squad with doubling down on frag cannons (which are assault weapons) and storm bolters (which are assault weapons) so these guys can charge and then the black shield gets angry and swings his fist around a lot

The dreadnought is on anti-horde/anti-light armour duty with the assault cannon and the heavy flamer fits in with the anti horde.

>use razorbacks as lascannon or plascannon platforms
Yeah, I could go with that

>Drop artemis
Yeah, he's in the start collecting box, I'll probably just use him as a sarge or a blackshield or something. I do like his strength D weapon though, was thinking he could sit with the power fist and charge something huge for glory.

Whole 40k-line.

Were all auspies here. You are. I am. Carnac is. We cant help it. Embrace it.

... Aren't they know more for their use of Mk IV armour?

tau

Probably Space Marines just by virtue of having the most players.

>Blood Angels
fix the assault phase

or give up and give them access to grav weapons, skyhammer, etc

some of the bits are a little genestealery but it can work

Stormbolter lacks special ammos. If want to charge, give your veterans Boltguns/Shotguns. You can have both.

>Orks
+1W for all non-gretchin models and allow charge after disembarking. New detachments with extra heavy support slots.

>Why? I want to shoot bolter shots and then charge.
iirc special ammo doesn't work with storm bolters

Councilling and hook them up with a nice partner who is into their weird kinks?

>charge after disembarking

Aren't most Ork vehicles open topped anyway?

>Blood Angels

Whats wrong with plasmabacks, supercharged land raiders, assault cannon spam, and death company facerape?

Mark V.

Mostly fix the assault phase and then everything falls into place fairly quick.

>Dark Eldar
Diversify their ranged options--why are the oldest race with near immortality limited to only splinter?
Fix wyches, fix mandrakes, like seriously fix mandrakes, fix hellions too while we're at it.

>Nids
Fix the assault phase so there are HQ options besides flyrants
Buff tervigons, buff carnifexes
Consider giving some bugs invuls, give the bigger gribblies some FNP and more wounds

>Orks
Fix the assault phase, fix mob rule

>Grey Knights
Lower the cost of GK terminators and GK in general, paying more than 12 points for 4 4 4 4 4 won't be viable as long as the metric for viable is ITC capture and control a bunch of objectives

>Blood Angels
Fix the assault phase

stormbolters do not get specialist ammunition, which is what you are paying 5 points per model for over regular marines (along with an additional base attack)

you are spending more than you need to for a squad to do each job. in the case of the first squad, you have 2 meltaguns, which are incredibly short ranged weapons, and plan to charge the occupants of something you shoot, however you seem to have given no thought to the fact you must get there first. razorbacks are AV 11 and die to any kind of reasonable mid-strength weaponry, the only other option you have is deep strike, from which you cannot charge.

if you wish to make an assault squad that has an actual chance of reaching that assault, load for bear with the entire squad (power weapons across the board) stick them in a blackstar, and bring it on using hover mode so they don't die when it gets shot to ribbons.

I guess the better way to put it is "never mix shooting upgrades and assault upgrades" as if you spend points trying to get a squad doing both, it isn't earning the points spent on shooting when it's fighting, and vice versa.

overall deathwatch isn't a great melee army, and I would advise against trying to do that with it. simply leverage the fact you have specialist ammunition and very effective special/heavy weapon choices, acquire drop pods and shoot before you get shot back.

the dark reapers are probably really useful with everyone loving jink saves and bikes right? or should i be adding in some D cannons or shadow weavers to be knocking out special weapons?

Ah. Thought it was MkIV. Makes since. If BaC came with chainsword like BoP does I'd advise buying that and converting to make the army.

disordered charge
overwatch
counterattacks
abundance of ap2 and ap3
lack of grav spam
lack of rerollable 2+

>Orks
Halve cost of all shooty units that aren't flash gitz, tankbustas or lootas
make boyz strength 4 base
make orkanauts super heavy
make tank bustas ap2 against vehicles
Flashgits ap should be ap:d3 to justify points
Give lootas rending

Jobs a good 'un

A lot of the traitor legions can use it, it's just BL can deepstrike starting turn 1, warlord gets guaranteed arrival if you want, and raptor talon lets you assault out of deep strike. Book is in the mega if you want to look.

dark reapers are point for point the most effective anti-air unit the eldar have, and will make ravenwing cry tears of blood with starshots. You might not see them in super top end lists, but if you're trying to build a semi-reasonable take all comers type list then one squad is entirely worth the investment.

Fucking damn, +1 wounds is actually a good idea, maybe increase cost of boyz by like, 2 in response?

What're people's opinions on Imperial Knights? Cheesy or balanced for their point value? I remember that I didn't like the idea of super-heavies becoming standard fare but it seems like it's the nature of the game now.

Dear Games Workshop,

All I want for 8th edition is for Walkers to be significantly better than Monstrous Creatures, so I can eat the tears of Eldar and Tau players, who defended that their Walkers should be MCs.

Love,
Dracul De Vrees (Night Lords Dreadnought)

Everyone can take a Raptor talon, but Night Lords can use it as a core detachment instead of a Chaos Warband.

go halfs with someone who wants a deathwatch group and its great - otherwise nah; you're spending money on models you dont want

depends on the game. if you're expecting one and aren't orks, harlequins, tyranids or tempestus you can deal with the problem alright, but it does take a decent effort to down one.

ultimately I'd say they're fairly costed, except for the pure shooting version which could stand for a minor increase as it does not have to expose itself to the same threat of being bracketed that melee+ranged knights have

Fuck you asshole. Just make Tau suits into Walkers like they're supposed to be.

Sincerely,
Tyranid players everywhere.

FUCKING THIS.
either this or make every unit that 'has some dude (or essence of dude) inside a bigger dude' a dreadnaught

>Night Lords can use it as a core detachment instead of a Chaos Warband.
sounds like I will have to read the rules on this then

I really really want relentless raptors, but I also don't want some bullshit tax decurion. Turn one deep strike would also be cool, but I am almost certain that requires some tax decurion. No way that we would just get it like how space marines can do it.

Too big for 40k's scale, like pretty much everything bigger than a 'Fex. The biggest issue with them is the D/Stomp rules being retarded, followed by the ability to make an army of nothing but Knights. One Knight per 1,000 points is okay (assuming no retarded FW variants), but pure Knights results in really, really shitty games.

taking a lot is cheesy but they're well balanced. the problem becomes they're too easy to add into any army and now all the super heavies are rated against them. the "proper" lords are now all overpriced or terrible by comparison. you also get the odd case of anything that size is a lord of war or should be, i'm looking at you gorkanaut. i've only seen it once (i don't play much) but it didn't do much besides bother my flamers of tzeentch

>immobilized results changed to -1 movement speed and charges
>all walkers ignore shaken/stunned

idk if this would help much and now i want to go dig out my 4th BRB to check the walker rules

Man, the idea that people like you with strong opinions about things you know nothing about can vote is absolutely terrifying.

mfw
Chaos slaves, try to take over Cadia.

Can someone post stompas?
I want insperation.
Bonus points for scratch built or kustum onez

csm got shat on for so long and got four supplements that were garbage

I know people say this new one is good but I am skeptical

Monstrous Creatures now have a chart they roll on like vehicles do for damage.
Gargantuans would ignore everything but the Explodes! equivalent like super-heavy vehicles do.
Does this fix MCs?

BaC comes with actual swords instead of Chainswords, though the Sergeant can get a Chainsword or Power Sword.

>BaC comes with actual swords

Combat Knives.

>fix the assault phase
im not sure exactly what is wrong with it?

>Orkz
Add more upgrades and make everything cheeper. Possibly random armor upgrades, for lulz?

Hm well I only wanted to take one if I ever do. Should be fine if the day comes.

i dunno what you're talking about, skitarii walkers are amazing; maybe dreads just suck balls?

the game is all about the shooting phase currently

Monstrous Creatures that aren't in Codex Tau are fine.

It ruins all the MC's that aren't riptides and stormsurges.

user, there are actual combat knife models, they aren't as large as chainswords.

so fix the shooting phase?

There might need to be a couple of good rules for different types. Seems like we have heavy walkers which are just vehicles and hang around the rear line, scout walkers which are just light platforms for a gun and infiltrate around the sides, and walkers made for mixing it up with the rest of the troops in the middle.

So far, walkers like the Onager are fine since they are just tanks but with legs instead of wheels or tracks. Scout Walkers like the Sentinel and Ironstrider are fine for running around the side and headhunting. Then we have the close-combat walkers meant to mix it up with the rest of the army, and these are the ones that need work.

>Charge after disembarking
You don't play Orks do you?

Disordered charge rules are terrible, charging two units right next to each other shouldn't rob you of charge bonuses.

No sweeping advance into combat is dumb.

Overwatch should be redesigned to work like 2e, including having firing arcs.

Weapon Skill mechanics need a complete redesign.

I just realized I have an unopened Lemun Russ and a shitload of unassembled guardsman and stuff. How would I go about converting this to Genestealer Cults?

you say that, but the skitarii dragoon is a very good anti-vehicle close combat walker, that can get to the other lines very fast (dunestrider), and gets a nice survival invun bonus

>what's wrong with it?

spotted the tau. it's not so much it's terrible (i play daemons, i live and die by assault) but shooting has a lot more advantages from night fighting not limiting range any more, random distance, overwatch, and easy ways to boost BS. units that get to assault from deepstrike or reserves are fewer.

there's also how anything that gets assault from reserves is instantly powerful or OP

Buy a box of genestealers

>point for point the most effective anti-air unit the eldar have
Nope, that'd be Swooping Hawks. A 96 point unit of 6 Hawks (say 106 or even 121 with a kitted out Exarch) deals an average of 5 hull points to ANY flyer (vehicle) per turn while still being able to fire their guns at other targets.

In order to deal 5 HP per turn to an AV10 Flyer (so best circumstances possible for them) with Reapers you'd need roughly 21 of them firing Starshot Missiles (672pts), and and roughly 50 of them firing Starswarm Missiles (1250pts). I think you might have confused the Starshot missiles they have access to for Starhawk missiles which are only on the Eldar Missile Launcher. You could take Exarchs with EMLs, but even then Hawks are still more efficient vs vehicle flyers, and Crimson Hunters are more efficient vs FMCs.

You're right about making bikers cry though, and they have utility, but they're definitely not AA.

most disordered charge stuff is negated by grenades, sweeping advance needs a rework - its too all or nothing, and im not sure firing arcs makes sense with overwatch? this ain't old fantasy

Neophyte Hybrid Squad boxes (the Squad part is important, there are also Neophyte Hybrid boxes but these are not the same thing). They come with a conversion sprue that lets you replace Guardsmen heads with genestealer hybrid heads and has cult symbols you can bolt to your vehicles and such.

Paint it purple

Actually I made a mistake, those Hawks only deal slightly less than 3 HP per turn, so Reapers are a bit better by comparison.

Deldar:
>allow disembarking after transports going cruising speed without any penalties
>Any shooting against a unit that moved over 9'' in previous turn gets -1 to BS, if BS drops to 0 the shots are snapshots instead

Tyranids
>removed from the game/made into native race that went from 0 to hero in no time and has devoured huge swathes from the galactic north fringes while other races fought Abby/tau/necrons/orks/anything else
>cut point costs on medium and big creatures and upgrades
>speedboost to hormagaunts and their bigger versions
>rework synapse to either only minor buffs and no drawbacks or huge buffs with serious drawbacks

Orks
>Improve wargear options and point costs
>Fix mob rule
>give them serious discounts on things that have drawbacks and/or give boost to those things to compensate drawbacks. Orks should have wild swings in power (IMO).

Grey Knights
>shift power budget from killing/fucking over daemons to something else, can't have a cake and eat it too.
>cool formations

Blood angels
>rolled into SM codex with black templars.
>Supplement support for their special things just like all the other chapters in C:SM.

>most disordered charge stuff is negated by grenades
Grenades have zero interaction with disordered charges, do you even read the rules?

Sweeping Advance should just allow you to immediately charge the next closest unit if you wipe the unit with it, as you use the fleeing enemies to screen your approach and roll the momentum further into their lines.

I mean I'm not a tau player, i play skitarii/inquisition so i do have a choppy element to my armies, and its usually my ace - an assault inquisition group is crazy powerful once you get in their face with a landraider - sweeping advance makes all the difference

For most of those, the bigger issue is reigning in the power creep (especially for shooting weapons) that has infested the higher tier codexes and fixing core rules issues. Tone down the high-RoF-medium-Strength weapons of the Tau and Eldar, gut Grav, make Overwatch less severe, stop wound allocation from costing assault armies several inches a turn, let units charge out of stationary transports again, reduce the variance in charge ranges, etc. Fearless and ATSKNF need penalties for losing combats. Ignores Cover and the absurd cover saves available to some armies need toned down.

Dark Eldar and Orks both need kabal/klan detachment rules. Tyranids need a couple FBD/DoF's to represent various stages of invasion.

Dark Eldar need Wyches and Mandrakes unfucked, and need some special characters added back in (or a bigger list of Relics/wargear that do different things). Dark Eldar also need all of their leadership stuff to stop fizzling against ATSKNF.

Tyranids need some means of preventing mid-size bugs from getting splatted so easily. They need their biomorphs returned and done by someone whose head isn't firmly lodged up his own ass.

Orks need access to Invulns, minor points adjustments, and the Morka/Gorkanaut made into SHW. Mob rule needs to be more of a benefit than a hindrance.

Grey Knights and Blood Angels should be mostly fine with the first paragraph taken care of.

Chaos Marines.
T. Chaos player

It shouldn't go that far, deathstars are already bad enough.

>Orks
>Improve wargear options and point costs

the problem with the Ork wargear isn't how much it costs, its how its not worth it because of either lots of rng or orks BS2

Fuckin nifty, thanks user

What's your group like? I was thinking of doing a few acolytes with flamers, 10 death cults, a priest and an Inquistior in whatever land raider holds 16 models.

Nope, now we have shitty walkers and shitty mcs.

>Dark Eldar
-They whole army gets combat drugs
-all vehicles get aerial assault
-night shields force snapfire on enemy units and schytes and grav bikes upgrades confer vector strike
-power from pain gives normal fnp and +1 fnp the second time
>special characters back
>Tyranids
-synapse gives fearless and other bonuses
-bonded exoskeleton is back and also confers EW
-tervigon, exocrine, tyranofex, brood mothers, mawloc, maleceptor and toxicrene become GC
-no instinctive behavior
>Orks
-invulnerable saves
-nobz become t5
-extra armour for infantry to gives them +1 to armour saves(yes I want 3+ orks running around)
-old mob rule(even the bit to allow running units to join other mobs)
>move units from elite to heavy support
>allow deffdreads to be puerchased on killa kans mobs, 1 every 3 kanz
>Grey Knights
-everything but dreadknights get cheaper
-psy ammunition is back
-psy grav cannons for instant death grav :^)
-they give -1 to inv saves for miniatures with the daemon special rule
>Blood Angels
-They become a vanilla chapter
-frag cannons
-assault units become troops again
-new land speeder+rhino hybrid to carry 10 Marines fast and make CSM players butthurt

Formations are obviously coming let's just hope they're good

Christ, someone has already even done all of the work FOR games workshop to completely unfuck orks. Geedubs could just replace the replace the ork codex with the Space 0din dex, and it would unfuck the entire faction instantly, and make them actually viable. And the best thing is that all it needed to do was exactly what you just described...

Deathstars need their own fixes entirely separate from the assault rules.