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>Standardshitters can't handle numrakul

topkek

>looks at your hand

What did he mean by this?

This did apprise me. I mean, U've seen plenty of games go longish and eventually:
>Emrakhul
>Take turn, fug you shit
>Scoop
She's big. She's got trample. And she's probably made you use all your answers on yourself.

Point bring, she's scary, but I didn't actually think she'd be ban worthy.

God, I should not be typing in the car.

I thought you were having a stroke.

Sell any pushes you open immediately. It's an uncommon in a modern set; people are vastly underestimating how many are going to be available. The price is going to drop for sure.

Think it will drop from being $4 to being $2?

My last modern tournament matchups were literally dredge, infect, delver, and suicide blue.

I'm happy

Probe was part of a greater problem.

Now we can go back to dying to Naya Burn on turn four or Infect on Turn 3.

We're saved from The Eldrazi again!

Hooray?

Hey. Infect dies to Push right?

I won't miss having to watch her in streamed matches at GPs. Shit was so fucking boring.

Does losing GGT actually hurt dredge that much? Don't they just jam thugs and keep rolling with like a 5% decrease in overall performance?

CONCENTRATE ON DRIVING user

It was the biggest Dredger and enabled them to win many game 1's. It would also be an xbox hueg dude if they just sit back and casted it normally because of a clogged up board state. Honestly the deck should still survive and they'll use Thug to dredge for 5.

Thank got Probe got banned. Half the fun of playing and watching Magic comes from playing around your opponent, what he's representing, his outs, your outs, etc. Probe did way too much for way too litte cost - it might be balanced without the card draw, or with an extra mana.

well peek is basically instant speed probe without the phyrexian option, but it is a garbage card that doesn't see play in any deck

So I'm a modern U/G infect player, any ideas on best cards to fill the Git Probe slots? Was thinking some combination of blossoming defense/apostle's blessing/spell pierce/slip through space but not really sure. Also with it out, should infect still run 4 become immense or go down to 3? If that was the case, was thinking of trying out a Birds of Paradise in main, and just go with the combat tricks as well.

Also, semi-jokingly, opinions on Peek to replace probe?

being instant isn't enough of a tradeoff for costing one mana more than probe
worth testing though it's probably fine

Because probe was avaliable. Now that it's banned maybe one dude will make a deck that has one.

This was kind of what I'd been thinking, honestly probably going to go for like 3 blossoming defense (currently running 0 as I like apostle's blessing a bit more) and maybe 1 more slip through space. If I decided to go to 3 become immense it'd be those+ 1 birds of paradise.
Whether or not to stay at 4 become immense is really the biggest debate for me right now

Driving is overrated. Especially for a 16 hour drive back home after a GP. I'm chilling in the back seat.

Stay at 4 Become Immense. It's still powerful with fetches. As for G probe replacement you don't really have any good choices. Either just up the infect creature count or if you're not on a budget constraint add Mishra's Bauble. Not much else you can do.

Distortion Strike > Slip
With Push around the corner I'd play full sets of Blossoming Defense and Vines, maybe more than 1 Spell Pierce. I'd drop to 2 Become Immense, 3 used to be the stock number. For 4 Immense, Peek sucks, if you want info run Mishra's Bauble (peek at their eot kill on yours), if delve+cycle asap Street Wraith.

So I'm sitting here as a play who more or less has quit for reasons that this recent banning is not going to change anything for me.

And I'm wondering why anybody at Wizards thinks their bannings on either list is going to bring anybody back. Obviously people like me are lost and are beneath consideration, but who is actually close enough to come back thanks to all this. Maybe Standard Showdown wasn't enough - but it was a first step. And now we have aggressive bans in Standard and Modern. I still kinda feel it isn't enough to give a shit because this isn't going to solve anything.

Because really, how many percentage points did you knock off Dredge, Infect, and Delver. Are people going to stop playing those decks? The answer is no. This is not the time for fucking fine tuning the format. And the bans in each format feel like fine tuning when they should have been cutting off limbs, especially in Modern. But if we didn't feel like cutting off limbs, maybe we could just provide people with the cards they want without having to pay 30USD+ to draft it - I know crazy idea.

The funny thing is, cutting off limbs and making heads roll is only a solution in Modern. It's not even the best one. Because the real problem is still there - money issues.

I get it, you can't just give us all the medicine at once otherwise it will kill the body. But each year that passed we went from Stage 1 cancer to Stage 4 right now and the financial tumor has metastasized into every single format. And I just feel like if you want your solution to have any impact, it can't be anything less than providing the patient with an entirely new body.

Or a blowjob. If Wizards somehow provided everyone with oral sex I think that would go a long way.

Push is kind of steering me towards Blossoming Defense. The lowest I'd want to go on Become Immense is 3, but in that case I might maindeck a 1 of Birds of Paradise. I also like Slip more than Distortion Strike, just b/c I feel like w/out probe, the cantrip is stronger now, plus Distortion Strike can put you in bad positions if your only infecter out is inkmoth. Also I feel like mishra's bauble/street wraith might be pretty hardcore, but definitely interesting picks. I like the bauble a lot more than wraith I think.
I guess I just have to decide whether or not to go hardcore into feeding delve or not

Losing GGT is the equivalent of a decapitation, the deck fizzles enough as it is and seeing like 10 cards less on average per game will further increase that rate. If your mom hug flips over a Thug and that's it you just basically lost.

UR Fiend and Suicide Zoo will become tier 2 at best due to losing their best card, Infect's critical turn has been rolled back to 4 since you can't go balls deep vs any open mana basically unless your hand is like 4 Mutagenic Growths, Noble + protection.

4 Immense is a lot worse without probe though. 3 or 2 makes more sense. You can't cycle as effectively early and your turn 3 kills are less consistent and there's really no way around that so the only real solution is to accept that the deck is going to often be a few turns slower and little less safe and just build for that.

The deck worked fine before the Twin ban and was slower and it seems like the best solution is to think of this as the same situation.

>10 cards less on average

??

Got any math to support that?

Dredge, loot, dredge, cathartic
Replace all dredged Trolls with Thugs

That would be the maximum though, not the average, that's worst case scenario

Hopefully prices will improve with aether revolt at least
Reserve list still needs to go

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Seriously, what were they thinking with phyrexian mana, ESPECIALLY on a 1 cost cantrip?

oi vey goyim get your Mishra's Baubles while you can

>Seriously, what were they thinking with phyrexian mana, ESPECIALLY on a 1 cost cantrip?

>Seriously, what were they thinking with phyrexian mana, ESPECIALLY on a 1 cost counterspell?

Ssh, the WotC Competitive Diversity Task Force™ will take you away for reconditioning if you say that!

4 immense is still fine without G Probe. Like I said if you want a 0 mana cantrip to fuel for Delve just use Mishra's Bauble. You won't get to see their hand but it still fuels Delve fine. If you don't want them for price reasons then play more pump/protection spells or infect dudes.

aggressively reprinting expensive cards almost killed magic at one point. maybe read up on why the reserved list exists instead of going on rants.

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Good fucking riddance

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I don't think anybody here agrees with you nor feels that events that happened almost 20 years ago is relevant especially given so many changes in context to the game.

I don't actually know how a person who feels the way you do even exists. It's actually more reasonable to believe you're trolling than to believe you genuinely defend the things and policies you're talking about without seeing the problems they're causing.

Wow, that looks fun as hell

Eventually it could get to Inquisition and PtE levels if it gets played a ton and doesn't get reprinted, but that will take several years.

Reminds me of farscape

ordered a foil playset from my lgs like 5 days ago with some extra christmas cash, pretty bummed as well, especially if I end up finding I like Mishra's Bauble replacement the most, seeing as its like 17 tcg mid now

Issue with emrakul was less that emrakul itself was strong and more that its natural counter is a wide board filled with good creatures that synergize off each other, like vamps or allies, and that these two decks are garbage.

Zombie decks were actually pretty decent against Emrakul.

What have you been playing in Modern?

UR Twin played Peek as a 1-of

I agree with him, the main reason some TCGs die is because of their overprint, a recent example is Force of Will TCG. Regarding the reserve list, I think, at least for Legacy, to make it more playable, either restrict the dual Lands (would likely quadruple (best case scenario) the supply, and by making it more accessible, also increase demand (to nullify some of the large supply).
I have very little knowledge about this stuff, so I don't know how exactly the secondary market would react to restriction to the dual lands, but something easy to see is that overprint, and ignoring contracts or previous statements can kill a TCG.

>restricting duals in legacy

What would you do? Ban them? Or just keep crying the format is too expensive?

sides in orbit

>Overprinting is bad
>So obviously banning whatever gets too expensive will save the game

I played Living End and Jund and Jund variants - I stopped after Siege Rhino became a thing.

If I had picked up Dredge I probably would continue playing it today with Troll getting banned and just replace it with Thug regardless of how less efficient it made the deck. If they banned Kalitas tomorrow, Jund players would just go back to Huntmaster or Olivia.

Yes because restricting = ban, specially when fetches exist

Doesn't change how your proposition is stupid. Also, why play under the assumption that if wizard were to reprint stuff from the reserved list, it would be over printed?

Force of Will isn't dying, if anything it's picking up more players.

>I stopped after Siege Rhino became a thing.
Why?

It would depend how the secondary market would react, the main issue of the reserve list wouldn't be the overprint but Wizards going back on what they said, it would affect the market negatively, just like what it did with Pokemon. Their previous actions fucked up and they should try to evaluate the best course of action that would damage both side the less. Chronicles showed how much damage it could do with printing.

The way I see it, to some portion of the player base any amount of reprint that would diminish the value of cards they own is considered "over printed".

And I think that's a fucking absurd mentality to have, to care if your cards are suddenly worth less. My car is worth less when I buy it; I don't care if they make more of my car - in fact I would be happy knowing there will be a longer support period for my car.

I have this $2000 stack of cardboard commonly known as a "Legacy deck". If that pile of paper was suddenly was worth $100 in exchange for people to regularly play with I think that is good value gained for a "loss" of $1900. And it's not even a loss, if I gave a shit about the opportunity cost of owning a $2000 deck I would have fucking sold it and collected dividends off the money.

And the same applies to Modern. If you paid $80 for a playset of Grave Trolls yesterday or even six months ago only to have the card eat shit, you shouldn't get mad at Wizards for attempting to unfuck the game, you should be mad at the fact Wizards let it get so fucking bad that cards are going for $20 in the first place.

And even then, if you wanted to protect the secondary market you could just let them know that in two+ year's time the Reserve List is eating shit and there is going to be a massive reprinting of Legacy and Vintage - so let that be a warning to not buy anymore overpriced singles.

But they're doing none of those things.

So... I gotta wonder. You want to play legacy, but you don't already have the staples? Or do you have the cards and you want the barrier to entry lowered so that it doesn't die?

Because I didn't want to buy Bobs. And I'm glad I stopped because I didn't want to buy Kolaghan's Command, or Kalitas, or Grim Flayer, or new Liliana.

I ran old Jund against the decks of today. It doesn't hack it.

Idea: play a different deck entirely.

Both, it gets difficult to buy a second deck, and there are no tournaments of Legacy in my country, it's not fun to have something you enjoy but almost no one to play with. Every time someone gets asked the reason they don't play Legacy, it's the duals. If we see, there are many decks that the difference between Modern and Legacy are the duals. The duals is basically the main entry barrier. While Legacy is dying, Modern is extremely popular.

Have you been reading this thread?

It's not practical to buy a new deck. One, it's too expensive, and two, because it's so expensive you won't have people to play with. I can pay for a deck, but why the fuck would I if there's nobody to play with.

So, wait.. you didn't have Bobs in the first place? wat?

I remember it was a little out of style at some point, but that was short-lived.

When did you start playing magic?

>Lel other games are diying by overprinting
>LCG are more popular each day
>Yu-gi-oh outsells mtg
>FNM are losing attendants because of prices
>They had to make standard rotate slower cuz people couldn't keep with the secondary market prices
>Chinamen fakes are more popular than Everest.
Stop pulling shit out of your ass, the game does not need a secondary market

>literally

As opposed to figuratively playing them?

Eight years ago. I don't understand what you want to get out of me. I decided to stop buying cards. Jund needed a fresh $100 in upgrades nearly every set, I felt like I made the right decision to stop. Buying a new deck is impractical.

>just spent 18 tix on 4 probes
>It drops to 50 cents a couple of hours later
I know how standard players feel now.

Oh fuck yes now im gonna play it in pauper

The rationale behind the free counterspell for 1-mana crap was solid, the problem with it was that it was itself technically 1-cost which led to annoying Misstep wars.

Probe however was dangerous since day one. A free cantrip is the kind of thing that can REALLY do damage, regardless of what the effect is, because there's so much stuff that triggers from casting a spell.

>One, it's too expensive
I don't find that to be true. Recent decks I put together:
Dredge: Had to pay a bit much for Conflagrate. Cost for me to try it: ~$12.
Breach Titan: Let's see... had all those cards. Cost nothing to assemble.
Lantern Control: Had to buy Lanterns (got those within hours of GP OKC ending), recently added Inventor's Fair, Blooming Marsh, Crane, Collective Brutality and some other junk. Cost: like $30 or something.
Bant Spirits: Had to pick up Botanical Sanctums, Spell Quellers, Rattlechains and Mausoleum Wanderers. Cost: $40-50.
Eldrazi: Okay... got me here. It cost me over $100 because I only had one fucking Eye of Ugin before the pro tour.

Point being, if you keep up on your collection instead of buying something that's been killing it for years, it doesn't really cost that much.

>and two, because it's so expensive you won't have people to play with
Huh? There's plenty of Modern where I live. The last PTQ here was 150 people. The PPTQs have been coming in around 50-60 people.

>I don't understand what you want to get out of me.
Wait, so when did you start playing Modern?

>I don't understand what you want to get out of me.
I'm trying to understand why you didn't just buy Bobs in 2011.

>Point being, if you keep up on your collection instead of buying something that's been killing it for years, it doesn't really cost that much.
I feel that the most useless thing a person can do is in this game is to buy cards incrementally. The fact that it is the most cost-efficient way to play this game speaks more about the stupidity in this game than anything else.

I feel that it's completely stupid to just buy pieces of decks here and there and sit on huge piles of playsets of cards that might see play in the future. It is a ridiculous thing to tell new players to do that if they burn a couple bucks every week they'll eventually have a real deck assuming it doesn't get banned to shit or outclassed.

Why the fuck would anybody play Magic at all if the only way to play it is on the installment plan?

It's nice that you have a huge community. Mine is barely firing events. Wizards needs to get their heads out of their asses and stop looking at large communities like yours unless if all they want are large communities like yours and nothing in smaller cities.

In what? Eye Candy isn't good and it's the only deck that runs it.

I played Modern from Day 1, five years ago. Are you seriously shaming me for not buying Bobs in 2011? Could you look some new player in the eye and tell them that the reason why the game is so expensive is because they didn't start playing the format five years ago?

As someone that works for distribution I can safely say the Yu-Gi-Oh is barely a drop in the bucket compared to Magic in North America, couldn't comment on Asia.

Yeah, that's what I was told when I asked about getting in to new formats.
"Hey, I have 200 dollars, what deck should I get?"
"Just get some fetchlands."
I'm sorry, but if I'm spending that much money on something, is it really that unreasonable to want a complete, usable thing?
I've also lost multiple modern decks to the ban-hammer, so i'm feeling a little bit leery of that format right now.

>I feel that it's completely stupid to just buy pieces of decks here and there and sit on huge piles of playsets of cards that might see play in the future.
It's simple. You buy into cards to play decks that later become pieces of future decks. For example: I didn't buy a playset of Caverns to sit on them. I bought them so I could play Naya Blitz in Standard. I didn't buy fetchies just to sit on them. I bought them so I could play Zendikar Standard decks. I got my Bobs playing Ravnica Standard. Snapcasters? Those were a solid $20 for a long time. But I picked up a playset within weeks of Innistrad coming out.

But I don't always pick things up for Standard. A good example: all the good Kamigawa shit that didn't see play during Kamigawa block. So how did I get a playset of Breaches? I bought them in 2011-12 after seeing Instant Reanimator. They didn't cost much back then.

Same goes for just about any insanely priced staple I have. I didn't pay current prices. You think I paid $100 each for my Goyfs? Fuck no.

Some cards slip through... I didn't pick up Mishra's Baubles until something like 2014. But $5 each... that's not that bad.

Cry to me some more about how stupid a strategy it is to buy good shit as it comes out, considering I paid far, far less in the long run.

>Are you seriously shaming me for not buying Bobs in 2011?
How much were they back then?

>Could you look some new player in the eye and tell them that the reason why the game is so expensive is because they didn't start playing the format five years ago?
Sort of. I tell people all the time that Modern is fairly expensive for new players.

>Could you look some new player in the eye and tell them that the reason why the game is so expensive is because they didn't start playing the format five years ago?

>"Hey, I have 200 dollars, what deck should I get?"
>"Just get some fetchlands."
That's good advice, tho.

>it doesn't cost much if you already have everything
huuuuuur

Sure, but I guess I what I was trying to say, is that that isn't very appealing to hear when you are trying to get into a format as a newish player.

How about this:
Buy fetchies and put together Burn and Infect. Get two decks.