Pathfinder General /pfg/

Pathfinder General /pfg/

What is your preferred permutation of default allowed sources? Paizo + all DSP + all SoP seems to have been the standard before.
Paizo + Forrest (in DSP or FFS) + N. Jolly seems to be gaining traction now, possibly because of disillusionment with PoW and SoP. Does this permutation have good merits?

>THIS IS IMPORTANT!
If you want build advice make sure to say what 3pp you can use, if any.
>THIS IS IMPORTANT!

Unified /pfg/ link repository: pastebin.com/JTj1yEmU

Avowed Playtest 1:
drive.google.com/open?id=0B5HkyGRtGZy3SWVhdWFBWERWWjg
Avowed Playtest 2: docs.google.com/document/d/1rV7kaF9JL2gw9xQalkEnlEDL9WXtbsaCqNABm_pLIgc/edit?usp=sharing
Malefex Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1W3LrE8WyIxxYRr8d9dHsWioeUk_-HZaSMqVWRnzc9Fc/edit?usp=sharing
Legendary Kineticists II Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/11_w1o5dSef2tzu2GDLnJKElHY3uyETzuzFHDAjI6P6k/edit?usp=sharing
Spheres of Might preview: docs.google.com/document/d/1aLaYQEFAWU4zQBx58boJPPaySLgJc0Emmw9eKyIJeGI/

Old Thread:

Other urls found in this thread:

archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43652765/#43653434
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hYrnghrSe7kMOko-aNiS0HTVlSJnUBkvHD2dmg0omGY/edit#gid=1753461638
d20pfsrd.com/traits/tools/traits-filter
app.roll20.net/forum/post/4420260/character-applications
twitter.com/AnonBabble

I currently use Paizo + DSP (psionics and akashic) + SoP. Everything else on a case by case basis, but I don't think I've ever disallowed anything of Forrest or Jolly's.

I personally hope that, once we get more content and an actual playtest build, that Spheres of Might gets some traction

Mostly for Parkour Kobolds

What would drive a non-Irriseni to become a Winter Witch, /pfg/?

Especially if he is prone to making nihilistic-sounding jokes on the best of days and outright states that he wishes he could freeze to death without chickening out on the worst?

Pic related only insofar as it's what he aims to inflict on his enemies. And his friends. And everyone. Including himself.

Troll pic and troll discussion question for maximum havoc.

I might be one of the only ones in /pfg/ that finds Forrest's stuff a little... samey? It's never bad, per se, but it seems like it's all just "dude blasts lmao". Living legend was neat though.

It's already shaping up to be what I actually wanted when I think "I want martials to be able to do cool things"

Nah, I agree, it's pretty similar.

I overall like a lot of it, but the design space has gotten incredibly crowded with psyarm, kineticist, kineticists loads of 3pp support, warlock vigilante+3pp, Spellburst, and Avowed. It's difficult to look at those all when the majority of them do some sort of "ranged magic attack allday.tm with allday.tm utility"

>Paizo+ Jolly + Forrest + Limited DSP (no initiating, but some feats from PoW) + other 3pp on case-by-case basis
>25 pb Gestalt with feat tax reductions

That's what I'd like to play, though the likelihood of anyone bothering with that without a shitfest is next to nil.

It definitely falls within a pretty specific framework, but it's also generally solid, well executed, and balanced so I don't worry about Forrest's work being disruptive or creating unwanted dynamics in my games.

Probably because FFS started with her blaster concept, before patreon voting got us to work on our Warlock port. Our next project is rather different!

Parkourbolds?

I'd likely just say Paizo+Avowed+Jolly+PoW feats
Soulknife and Aegis are maybes. Never been a big fan of Psionics, or vancian for that matter. I like SoP if not for the odd interactions it has with vancian. SoP really feels like it needs a 2.0 release to iron out a lot of the weird things it can do.

Here's hoping that SoM is a fucking great release.

>SoP really feels like it needs a 2.0 release to iron out a lot of the weird things it can do.
They have an errata, also many of the sphere Handbooks do have references and clarifications in them on occasion

I think SoP gets a lot cleaner when you remove Vancian entirely, which I do. SoM seems really on point, I haven't heard anyone on that team say anything that I don't find interesting, and their teaser preview makes me want to see more of the system and classes.

Weather was still a fucking mistake-and-a-half.

Alright, I know Avowed is the current Flavor of the Month, but what about the Spellburst Savant? Was that ever finished, and was it any good?

It would still be nice for them to upgrade the book with all the errata and clarifications. Maybe do a new printing with some upgraded art while they're at it.

It was great, as much as any blasty class generally is. Makes a nice replacement for classic wizards if you want an E6 feel without having to actually limit yourself to low levels.

SoP is far from perfect. Weather is still absolutely broken for example. Ignoring the Greater Talents though I think SoP casting is in a better position balance wise than Paizo casting.

Currently I feel it's one of the better casting systems around due to its simplicity and theme. Psionics is in a similar place balance wise, but it's not as elegant as Spheres to me.

SoM seems to be avoiding one of the pitfalls of a lot of books like that by avoiding the "These are a new set of replacement core classes" by basing the system out of feats and archetypes. The classes they are introducing are stuff that aren't really in Pathfinder like a non-magical buffer, healer, and a real "build your own martial" class.

I'm actually looking forward to the Conscript who manages to be the true blank slate the Fighter failed to be.

First level Skald, strength heavy.

I have 13.6gp left, what should I spend it on? What low-level, low-cost items are overlooked when they provide great utility, especially in the beginning of a campaign?

Does anyone have stories they would like to share about clever ways they navigated 1st level?

I'm pretty liberal with allowing 3pp, but I'm getting a feeling that when SoM is finished it'll be Core + SoP + SoM - Vancian casting, no Path of War, Jolly and Forrest always, Gonzo when applicable.

>I'm actually looking forward to the Conscript who manages to be the true blank slate the Fighter failed to be
I saw them talking about that, a martial version of the Incanter. I'm intrigued to see that and the Scholar class. Seems kind of ballsy to put a 1/2 BAB class in a martial book, I'm interested in seeing if they pull that off.

Conscript is still in balancing, as is scholar. We have our ideas for this though.

Flasks of oil are always useful. An intelligent enemy will spend an action putting themselves out instead of attacking. It's good against swarms, too.

Weather's weird. You have nigh godly powers to manipulate the weather and hold an entire kingdom's crops ransom, but your actual combat options are surprisingly slim.

From what I understand the Scholar is more like a back line commander/healer/support.

The conscript is a pile of talents and feats. I don't know if it has class features and if it does they'll probably be as fluff neural as possible like "Bonus to save of choice/weapon group of choice" Since the idea seems to be that the conscript focuses on whatever the player wants.

Personally thinking I may make Nephenee and style her combat style to be very Dragoon.

The turbo version is pretty awesome. The regular version is okay, but loses a bit too much of its fundamentals flavor to regular spellcasting I find.

Regular version is in most ways a much better Cryptic, though magical instead of psionic.

What do you mean good sir?

Get elemental resistance for your party to fire or cold then walk into the dugeon with a giant burning rain/blizzard filling any room you enter.

Just keep doing as you do. I'm happy with what you and Mike have been telling people.

Anyone here played Dragon's Demand? Anyone GM'd it? How was it?

Which is kinda good I guess. Sure, you can make it rain whenever you wish, but it takes a while to gin up, and any schmuck with either a knife or a well placed arrow can stop it all, and you have almost nothing to stop a Fighter from charging forth and cutting you in half

Well they put multiple full-bab classes in their magic book.

Level: 5th
Race: Dreige (Lords of the Mist update) or half-giant (Ultimate Psionics)
Classes: Warder (ordained defender, zweihander sentinel) 4/stalker (brutal slayer) 1
Domain/Inquisition: Conversion (use Wisdom in place of Charisma for Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate)
Martial Tradition: Stained Glass Champions

Ability Scores (25 point buy): Strength 17+2+1+2, Dexterity 12-2, Constitution 12, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 16+2+2, Charisma 7

Traits:
• Combat: Practiced Initiator (stalker), +2 initiator level for stalker
• Race: Fey-Touched (Lords of the Mist), +2 trait bonus against compulsions and diseases, feyblood subtype
• Third Trait: Some method of gaining a +2 trait bonus to initiative checks, possibly through a campaign trait or Adopted
• Drawback: One of choice

Feats:
• 1st-level: Altered Life (Bloodforge), use Wisdom modifier (+5) instead of Constitution modifier (+1) for hit points
• 3rd-level: Martial Charge, use a martial strike in place of a charge
• 5th-level: Victorious Recovery, once per encounter, recover initiator modifier (+5) upon reducing an opponent to zero or less hit points
• 5th-level (Stalker Art: Combat Art): Improved Initiative, +4 bonus to initiative checks

Custom Monk Weapon:
• +5 DP: Martial
• +3 DP: Two-Handed
• +3 DP: Additional Design Points
• +1 DP: Fragile (irrelevant once made masterwork)
• -3 DP: Improved Critical Threat Range
• -5 DP: Improved Damage
• -1 DP: Weapon Feature (Monk)
• -3 DP: Weapon Feature (Reach)
Final Result: Martial two-handed melee weapon, 50 gp, 2d6 damage as Medium, 19-20/×2, fragile (irrelevant once masterwork), monk, reach

Key Equipment:
• 4,000 gp: +2 Strength from belt or Combating Christmas Trees
• 4,000 gp: +2 Wisdom from headband or Combating Christmas Trees
• 2,000 gp: Masterwork full plate with masterwork armor spikes
• 400 gp: Masterwork Large-sized custom monk weapon

Pretty standard adventure stuff. Not too many plot holes, decent challenges, fits into pretty much any campaign setting.

I saw a claim on the Paizo forums that with SoM you'd be able to make almost every Soul Calibur character using two Spheres or less. Is this true? I'm almost tempted to make as many 1-20 builds of Soul Calibur characters as I can just to see if this claim holds water.

Warder Stances:
• Primal Fury 1: Running Hunter's Stance
• Silver Crane 1: Eyes of the Crane

Warder Maneuvers Readied:
• Golden Lion 1: Boost: Encouraging Roar
• Silver Crane 1: Strike: Enduring Crane Strike
• Golden Lion 2: Counter: Warning Roar
• Scarlet Throne 2: Strike: Rising Zenith Strike

Stalker Maneuvers Readied:
• Broken Blade 3: Strike: Steel Flurry Strike
• Riven Hourglass 3: Boost: Time Skitter
• Shattered Mirror 3: Boost: Reflected Blade Style
• Veiled Moon 3: Boost: Ghostwalk

Stalker Stance:
• Primal Fury 3: Primal Warrior Stance

Combat:
• Initiative Bonus: +11 = 5 Wisdom modifier + 2 trait + 4 Improved Initiative
• Attack Bonus with Martial Charge (Steel Flurry Strike) and Time Skitter: 4 BAB + 6 Strength modifier + 1 masterwork enhancement + 1 Time Skitter + 2 charging - 2 Steel Flurry Strike = +12, possibly against flat-footed AC
• Non-Critical Damage with Primal Warrior Stance and Steel Flurry Strike: 6d6 base weapon damage + 9 Strength modifier + 3d6 Steel Flurry Strike + 2 Broken Blade = 9d6+11 (average 42.5)

This character walks around with Time Skitter active nearly all the time, thanks to being able to recharge it as a standard action: archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43652765/#43653434

In other words, the character is permanently Hasted and has 40-foot speed in heavy armor.

What warranted this?

The character opens up combat with a very high initiative check, then charges 80 feet with Martial Charge, activating Steel Flurry Strike and Reflected Blade Style, probably targeting flat-footed AC.

Assuming there are no critical hits (which trigger Brutal Strikes)...
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hYrnghrSe7kMOko-aNiS0HTVlSJnUBkvHD2dmg0omGY/edit#gid=1753461638
• One hit: Enough damage to take down two CR 4s
• Two hits: Two CR 7s
• Three hits: Two CR 10s are most likely dead

Then Victorious Recovery recharges essentially all maneuvers.

This a 5th-level character. Their other highlights include:
• Wisdom for hit points in place of Constitution.
• Wisdom for all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.
• Detect Evil and twice-rolled Perception from Eyes of the Crane.
• Scent from Running Hunter's stance.
• At-will noncombat healing from Enduring Crane Strike.
• At-will incorporeality (i.e. passing through walls).
• Hasted most of the time, with Rising Zenith Strike as a backup enemy-exploder.

This is the design goal we have, although I'd like to say that it'll probably involve classes here too.

Memes, Jack!

I think that claim only referenced their combat abilities used in the vidya. I imagine that if you wanted to have some abilities used in lore, such as being a boss sailor or spy, that you probably need a few more spheres.

SoP also really needs to drop the whole "fractional caster level" thing entirely. That on top of the slower talent drip and stuff is just silly.

These are proxy posts because Touhou is having trouble posting. This is a follow-up to from the last thread.

Any chance we'll see a Skyborne SoM book with spheres like "Airship Piloting" or "Anti-Fey combat techniques"

That woudn't really fit in the base book for SoM, but I imagine that the world of Skyborne has some pretty niche stuff like that.

Greatbow class/archetype?
Y/N

Down the road, that'd be something pretty awesome to do; I'll bring it up to the crew!

Nah.

CROSSBOWS.
giant bows already have entire classes to themselves, it's called "anything not specifically entirely dedicated to a weapon that isn't them"

Maybe an archetype, but we're trying pretty hard to keep spheres weapon agnostic aside from melee/ranged, and even that we're doing our best to keep as open as possible.

Awesome! If more playtests roll out, I'll be sure to post some builds here for critique.

I will say, this feels like one of the highest points of initiator optimization. I don't know how much higher it could go, but I'm incredibly curious.

So, to clarify, the AVERAGE damage is 42.5 points per two rounds, with a maximum non-critical of 85? Which is a far cry from the "lol150damage" people keep touting about, and more importantly it requires a specific race, multiclassing, AND an expensive customized weapon in order to function, correct? Not simply something that "anyone can do".

Ergo, not only are the memes inaccurate, they weren't even as much as people kept exasperating about. Thank you for this lesson, 2hufag, it was enlightening as well as very useful in BTFO'ing the shitposters. From the bottom of my heart, thank you very much.

Have a trio of Touhous in return!

How the fuck are you supposed to pick Traits?

What do you mean? You pick two that aren't of the same type (Social, Race, Religion, Regional, Magic, Combat), three if you've got a Drawback.

Good. Keep'em agnostic when possible.
I still seethe at seeing "melee weapons only" on everything from targeting scopes to high pressure ammunition back in the steelforge playtests.

Yah!

Best character in best game

Yeah, it'll on average miss on 1-4 against CR-1 so the DPR is a bit lower than the average damage per hit.

Seems the meme was caused by yet another "BUT ITS HUGE" on-paper that is far lower in math and lower still in practice.

That's the best I could ask for.
I'm feeling a Silver Knight character coming on, and you can bet I'll be pumping acro to get up on catwalks to shoot people off them.

That 42.5 is without using a boost. Which could be RBS or bronze knuckle. We went over the math for the 150 thing in the end of the last thread. The number comes from the pre-attack calculation.

WGA+Large Greatsword+Powerful Build+Primal Warrior+Power Attack+Steel Flurry+Bronze Knuckle+20 STR (or 18 and a +1 weapon).

The point of lowcasters and midcasters is that they're supposed to have class features to make up for the lesser caster level.

Mageknight for instance, super does.

Armorist on the other hand, not so much.

I mean more "how do I filter through these hundreds of seemingly useless traits to find things that will actually be relevant"

We will be doing more previews, and we WILL be doing a public playtest for SoM once we're further along. Repeat, we WILL be doing a public playtest.

We're doing our best to make sure that if something COULD work for a weapon type, we'll allow it. You can't box with arrows, but that's about where we're trying to cap it.

That sounds like it'll work damn well with armiger. The preview should have been updated with the new text on that to help clarify where it might have been a bit muddy before, so check it out!

There's a Trait Guide in the pastebin linked in the OP. It's actually really helpful

Follow this link: d20pfsrd.com/traits/tools/traits-filter

Then, in the Benefit bar, type in a single word that you want to focus on for that trait, such as "Armor" or "Device" or "Critical". Find the thing that fits the best, and go to town; SO much easier than sorting through everything at once.

d20pfsrd.com has a page you can go to that has a searchable list you can plug keywords into to find what you need.

What exactly makes Forrest/N. Jolly so special as to have them be their own category?

many thanks

Correction from Touhou: Ghostwalk has to be dropped because of maneuver prerequisites. Instead of readying Ghostwalk, ready Broken Blade 2's Bronze Knuckle instead.

42.5 damage is per non-critical hit. Steel Flurry Strike is three attacks. In the best case scenario of three non-critical hits, then, 127.5 damage is dealt to two enemies.

They talk to people here, and their work doesn't suck.

The problem is that SR and AC aren't comparable, but that system treats them like they are.

Armiger already makes me moist.
Is there any chance of it getting an archetype that swaps out additional bound weapons to trade for more features on the single bound weapon?

>high-pressure ammunition
>melee weapons only
GODDAMNIT SQUALL!

>You can't box with arrows

AHEM.

At this point in time, agreed. I think so too, though I'd like to think that my stuff is relatively unique within their own classes.

It's mostly a quirk of timing and what I ended up working on. The Living Legend was my Big Thing for a while, but it's a soulknife—stabbing things with magic is its gimmick. Then the kineticist stuff for PsiAug, and the Roil Dancer (I was the only DSP staffer really willing to touch it, and having fun with it).

The Spellburst Savant was basically "I'm gonna do homebrew based on an idea handed to me" and morphed into something bigger, and the Avowed is a port of my second-favorite 3.5 class, which coincidentally was ALLDAY magic + ALLDAY utility. Honestly, I personally quite like "allday combat magic/martial + some sort of utility" as a design paradigm, but ideally not /all/ my stuff will follow that mold. Most things /will/ have some sort of repeatable gimmick or sets of gimmicks in their subsystems, though, because running out the stuff you need to /function/ (as opposed to the stuff that makes you /amazing/) sucks ass.

The tech stuff I'm writing, along with the eventual unchained bard, unchained cleric, mounts, and other things (maybe a Binder port), are gonna be very different from this, I expect.

"tried tested and true". you don't have to worry about it looking like the Adamant Entertainment Warlock by the time it's out of earliest alphas.

Probably, we plan on doing archetypes, but I'm really hoping we make it to at least 15k so we can get a really nice archetype section.

...well dammit, you win this round user.

God that warlock was terrible...

Hey, Forrest. I'm working on Spellburst Savant for Hero Lab. Do you use that at all?

Reminder that if you use "custom weapons" without GM approval, and just make them into balls of stats not properly based on any practical weapon, you are scum

So yeah, my trip disappeared...it was eaten by a wolf...

I do not. Never been one for character builders.

Is there a link to the Conscript somewhere? I know it isn't out yet, but I'm intrigued about what was talking about

>and the Avowed is a port of my second-favorite 3.5 class
What's your first favorite? What other classes (base or prestige) do you like the most from the 3.5 era?

... How?

That's a v cute elb mage

Assuming my DPR calc program isn't wrong, the thing linked does like 103.8 dpr after hits/crits are factored. And that's before boosting with RBS.

So it's a 207.6 dpr build, with really good movement, initiative, socials, and detection abilities. With a out of combat heal.

Notepad worksheet type?

Oh that was against CR 5, which has an AC of ~17, and a health of about 53. And it'd hit two of them.

They've described what it is, but it hasn't been made available through preview or playtest yet.

How do you go from doing those numbers every other round to doing twice that as DPR?

Are you Cryptic Entertainment? Is that build the Omega Torpedo Launcher that they only recently "fixed" not by bringing its damage back up but by REMOVING the DPS from the tooltip?

>It fires every half second so we'll be lowering its per-hit damage and giving it an ammo limit
>Even though in practice it actually fires every TWO seconds, and so was already in the crapper

Anyone see the new 'meet the team' update for SoM?

>Adam Meyers is the creative mind behind Spheres of Power, Skybourne, Rogue Glory, and many other Drop Dead Studios products, Adam founded Drop Dead Studios when he was living as a stay-at-home Dad, and it quickly transformed into a full-time job with which he couldn't be happier.

>Michael Sayre has an extensive list of credits in Pathfinder design, including Akashic Mysteries, The Battlelord, The Luchador, The Genius Guide to Bravery Feats, Lords of the Night, Spheres of Power: Expanded Options, and Vigilantes of Skybourne, and he's excited to work on the next big iteration of the Spheres system.

>Andrew Stoeckle is the writer behind the acclaimed Destroyer's Handbook and Shapeshifter's Handbook from the Spheres of Power handbook project. He's also the original creator of the Spheres of Power Orrery and its associated guides for the system.

>N. Jolly is a hero, and someone you should admire. As the writer of the Kineticists of Porphrya series and the Legendary Vigilante line, he has a long history of being amazing and handsome. Not only that, he has also helped pen quite a few guides for character creation for several different classes, aiding the gaming community for quite some time.

Which one of these isn't like the others?

Median CR5 AC is 18 not 17. The mean is 17.6.

Don't you spend a round recharging every time?

Who's your favorite Dragon Applicant?

app.roll20.net/forum/post/4420260/character-applications


>LG Human Knight Disciple Paladin // Unchained Monk(Scaled Fist)
>LN Tiefling Sorcerer // Unchained Monk(Scaled Fist)
>LN Kitsune Steelfist Commando Warlord // Elemental Asceticist Kineticist
>NG Dragon Royal // Draconic Hero Cavalier
>N Dragon Onslaught Kineticist // Draconic Exemplar
>LN Silver True Dragon // Battle Butler
>NE Dragon Mesmer // Draconic Exemplar
>CN Dragon Alchemist(Draconic Hero + Internal Alchemist) // Atomic Adept [first Chaotic entry: CN]
>CN Dragon Royalty(???) Draconic Disciple // Unchained-Monk(Scaled Fist) / Aberrant Aegis
>LN Human Fiendbound Marauder Warder // Aegis
>CE Human Unchained Rogue // Slayer. VMC Magus
>CN True Red Dragon // Incanter(SoP)
>CN Human Sorcerer // Shadow Assassin?
>NE Human Dragonrider(Harrier) // Cleric of Tiamat
>LN Kobold Alchemist // Unchained Hidden Blade Rogue
>LN Human Rough-Rider Myrmidon Fighter // Druid
>NG AND N Kobold Vigilante // Betrothed Avowed
>NG Human Paladin // Synth-Summoner
>CG Undine Undine-Adept Druid // Savage-Warrior Fighter
>CG Tiefling Unchained-Rogue // Sorrowsoul Bard
>N Titan Architect // Spell Sage Wizard
>N "Half Dragon Human" Two-Handed Fogjter Titan Mauler UCB

I don't know if it's you schict, but you know what would be awesome?

A White Knight Chronicles class. In that game the knights were strong combatants who could call upon magical armor for periods of time.

Hey!
I autism'd that list!

I'm not on it yet, so I'll go with the synth.

I guess its time to slow down. We've complimented Jolly so much, he's now beginning to get a swollen head
JollyXForrest slashfics when?

I want the one with the six older sisters.
... I don't really care about him I just want his sisters.

my god, there are that many who submitted Evil aligned characters? (we all know that CN is on the evil side)

I'm gunna have some smiting to do...