>Servitors in general, but especially the cherubs. Zombie robot babies are well past the usual levels of fucked up.
>The treatment of psykers in general.
>The retention of death world colonies. >The retention of feral worlds as colonies.
>An inability to generate lasting ties to the few not-crazy alien races/factions in the face of mutual extinction from the madness of everything else. And yes, I do consider the Eldar, Tau, and saner necron dynasties to be every bit as guilty of this.
>Way too many skulls, guys. Way too damn many.
>The Inquisition booting everyone and their mothers into Labour Camps after the First War for Armageddon is pretty high up there.
>Localized atrocities like hunting people for sports, horrible working conditions, enslavement, horrible enslavement conditions and so on.
>Joyful extermination of non-spacefaring sapient species
Don't forget the Interex, who exist solely for the purpose of showing that the Imperium is full of shit.
John Reyes
>colonies
This is the one thing I disagree with. It actually works out well for the feral world, since they get tech and a chance to leave their shitty hellhole (normally to go fight for other shitty hellholes, but hey).
Plus, the Imps don't really interact with them beyond the tithe.
Brody Peterson
Horrible things the tau have done...
>Genophage programs likley being implinted on unruly settlements to increase the speed of colony integration.
>Communism?
Andrew Anderson
Lets not forget the horrible Bureaucracy and religious suppresion
Ayden Butler
But the Imperium doesn't try to really uplift them and probably prevents those who do.
Dominic Rogers
They do though. When it's in their interest to do so. They barely have the technology and resources to support themselves for the most part. Having your pastoral medieval world turned into a strip mined industrial world is not a good thing.
Kevin Clark
To be fair, when the Space faring part got up and running they got nothing but hellscape and killer Xenos left and right, cryptic Eldar not just negotiating, sharing information and talking, instead playing the good old "Keep out of muh forest" Skinwalker earder shit with their Webway jumping.
And as it was a climate of endless war, I can see why no one would sit down to map an entire alien psychology and ecology just so people could get along.
Either your beneath man's feet, or underneath 40k too busy with that whole war thing to get along
Jason Kelly
Mutations are result of spiritual corruption in 40k and rogue psykers can plunge entire worlds into chaos. If someone is oppressed doesn't automatically mean they're right.
Brandon Wright
The Imperium is nothing but a moribund man that has been in coma for 10,000 years. All the vitality is long lost.
Asher Taylor
because it's grimdark. Everything is supposed to be fucked up
Jacob Price
The beurocracy is terible sure, (just ask the The Departmento Munitorum) but the religious suppression is 110% justified from the danger of opening portals to space hell
Luke Sanchez
I think you're taking a best case feral world and a worst case industrial world for granted
Jordan Turner
>wiping out stable happy families
Imperium literally worse than planned parenthood
Brandon Gutierrez
Skulls are cool.
Eli Harris
Galactic Empires are impossible withou machines or supermen autist running it.
Evan Morris
>Servitors in general, but especially the cherubs. Zombie robot babies are well past the usual levels of fucked up.
There is nothing wrong with this. At all. Why not lobotomize prisoners of harsh crimes and use them as robots? I like cherubs even if they are macabre, it'd be pretty cool to have them flying around in my neighborhood tbqh fampire
>The treatment of psykers in general.
Mutants can suck my dick
>The retention of death world colonies. >The retention of feral worlds as colonies.
Why is this bad? So what if people don't live in 21st century apartment decadent comfort Human-farms?
>An inability to generate lasting ties to the few not-crazy alien races/factions in the face of mutual extinction from the madness of everything else. And yes, I do consider the Eldar, Tau, and saner necron dynasties to be every bit as guilty of this.
Kill all non-Humans
>The Inquisition booting everyone and their mothers into Labour Camps
BASED
The rest is just modernist bitching. I would choose to live in the 41st Millennium or 30k by my own free will, even if I became some hivescum laborer. To serve one's species/race/nation/tribe/clan/family is a glorious and noble purpose.
David Sanders
/pol/ please
Ethan Garcia
hey reddit
Brandon Perez
Each of the "Order"-aligned races share the blame for not being able to work out a stable non-aggression pact/alliance of convenience in the face of gradual annihilation by a combination of Orks, Nids, Edgelord elves and space hell. Though this is ultimatly a case of none of the species involved being willing to analyze the full picture without bias or ego interfering -- at least not until it is far too late.
40k is where logic comes to die and status quo is god emperor.
Daniel Stewart
Uh, mass murder?
I guess every faction has done that, but people tend to forget that the Tau are aggressive expansionists and bring the fist down on anyone that doesn't step in line after the first course of diplomacy. They've incinerated entire Hives to prove a point and there are undoubtedly many many xenos within the Tau Empire that are only in there because they'd be wiped out otherwise.
Brody Young
I'd say the level of blame is ranked like so: Imperium > Tau > Eldar.
Why the Imperium is where it is should be obvious. The Tau can have alliances but they ultimately believe they must end up in charge and have a thirst for domination over others. Eldar are shitty to everyone but primarily out of self-preservation. They don't reach out with honesty to the Imperium because they tried that during the Heresy and it didn't work; they manipulate humans because they can't trust them not to be genocidal dicks. Note that there's like zero fluff of them being manipulative pricks to races that can be cordial, such the Tau.
Thomas Harris
>hey reddit nice meme friend never used leddit in my life
Justin Smith
You would be dead by 35 from either industrial accident or stress related burn out.
The last time avg human life expectancy was so low was pre-bronze age.
Elijah Fisher
they're not babies, they're cherubs
babies would grow too quickly to make implantation of augmetics practical, so cherubs are just clone-flesh made to a particular template
they're about as disturbing as a pug or a greyhound
Robert Morgan
Only in death does duty end
Camden Sanders
hola reddito
Luis Lewis
Don't forget religious intolerance and persecution of innocent Neverborn.
Lucas Garcia
So many STDs, but... So Thicc... But I can't forsake the Emperor, but, there's no point in it all anyways, I might as well... But, no, I... Oh dammit all, PRAISE NURGLE!
Logan Turner
Can't forget the hunting of the sensei.
Nolan Torres
Trump voter spotted.
Easton Gray
I'm fucking done with this shit Every god damn board
Blake Rogers
Moot was an ass for not deleting /pol/ when he had the chance. Now it's infected everything.
Parker Diaz
Day of the rope is drawing near, friend. You will swing together with your pet monkeys.
Jose Moore
...
Lucas Long
Cherubs are vat-grown, cloned flesh, little more than fleshbags designed to be incorporated with cybernetics.
Servitors can also be vat-grown but they can also be made from convicts and fallen soldiers, which can easily remove a Penal planet's problem citizens or make up for battlefield losses by replenishing troops with fallen comrades. This is also horrifying.
Skitarii can sometimes also be made from vat-grown humans and be allowed to maintain some human autonomy so they can be effective warriors, but otherwise they can just as easily be made into partly fleshy automatons fit for grinding conflicts and sentry duty. Although they also recruit from their own Forge World menials, mind-wiped convicts. They can even be promoted to Tech-Priest status, so a heretic can come full circle from traitor to the God-Emperor to loyal and faithful servant of the Omnissiah, overseeing the works and warriors of the Machine God.
Dylan Roberts
At least the Emperor wasn't a whiny bitch baby who pees on things that make him made while tweeting about it.
Nolan Morris
>The Inquisition booting everyone and their mothers into Labour Camps after the First War for Armageddon is pretty high up there.
This is possibly justified as regular humans who've come into contact with Chaos risk being corrupted by it and spreading that corruption.
Mutation is seen as a sign of spiritual corruption and there is evidence for that, but I believe there are also just mutants who are the result of normal means.
Ryan Rogers
>Don't forget the Interex who's only fluff consists of like 25 pages in a HH book
You Interexfags are the worst.
Eli Flores
>I would choose to live in the 41st Millennium or 30k You have to be really fucking dumb to WANT to live in that type of universe.
Carson Wright
>It's a ''retard tries to apply liberal values to 40k'' episode Kill yourself post haste. The Eldar are the single most guilty race in the setting and they ruined everything for everyone and still dare act smug. It's Eldar guilt>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone else
Brody Sanders
Nope, it's EVEN WORSE. The Imperium purposefully doesn't uplift them because a sect of Inquisitors called the Amaltheans (hugely influential) have decided that everything in the Imperium is advancing according to the Emperor's plan, and thus it is their sacred duty to maintain the status quo.
That's right. GW's need to maintain the grimdark has a faction in-canon responsible for it.
>See attached image
The thing about modernists is that unlike you their ideology supports the vastly better world we live in. If you don't like civilized society you're free to leave.
The Tau would be the bad guys in any other scifi. The fact that they're the least transparently awful faction in universe speaks volumes.
Colton Gonzalez
No day of the rope is ever going to happen, unless you're talking about the moment when your self-image finally matches your reality and you decide to put yourself out of our misery, /pol/fag.
Owen Butler
>>The treatment of psykers in general. TBF,if you don't control them,your world is taken over by Chaos and you can become a chaos sp-
OP,you are ignoring their worst crime: making shitty starships.
Compare this beauty to the bloated,slow,underarmored and underpowered pieces of shit imperial navy personal have the gall to call battleships.Their ships have so much wasted space they often have colonies of primitive cannibal humans.
Carson Foster
This desu. the imperium's only crime is inefficiency, corruption and incompetence. Everything else is fairly justifiable. Although i do find the mechanicus pretty unsavory.
Hudson Wood
>someone brings up /pol/ >/pol/ responds >nooo stop invading us every fucking time. The guy was just stating his opinion.
Nolan Powell
Don't forget the Interex, who failed to learn from humanities previous mistakes and were well down the path of destroying themselves by developing advanced AI
Henry Long
>That's right. GW's need to maintain the grimdark has a faction in-canon responsible for it.
They're a plausible excuse, but not the reason. Humanity in 40k is always going to embrace its worst aspects because that is the entire point, the idea that we're just a bad day away from going backwards.
Jason Smith
>waste of space >posts the Executor Listen man I think that Star Destroyers can't be topped, but after awhile the Imperiums ships grew on me. Halo humans still have the best though
Jaxson Walker
You've also got the caste system. Not as bad/more subtle the the unending oppression of the Imperium, but it's still not great.
David Myers
Why is it not great? everyone is able to accept their differences and do the things they're good at, there's no reason that forcing everyone together and causing conflict is an inherent good.
Matthew Lewis
>Born in Angola >Hated all forms of religion >Technically the ultimate globalist >Better hair and complexion
Trump is more like Abaddon: >shit haircut >angry impotent failure >was liked until he was in charge
i'm just waiting for Trump's arms to fall off.
Christian Garcia
>I'm fucking done with this shit So you're finally just going to give in and go to reddit? I really don't understand you guys who got shocked by the offensive and off-topic stuff, what exactly were you expecting, seriously? Were you not aware of the nature of this website? Did you somehow think that none of the threads that you partook in would be affected by it? Why?
Josiah Gutierrez
>angry impotent failure >failure He's going to be your next president m8, you call that a failure?
>>was liked until he was in charge He had lower favourability ratings then motherfucking Hillary Clinton during the election, what are you talking about! The fact he was able to win the election is a real testament to the monumental incompetence of the democratic party, how do you fucking lose against a guy who's more hated then any other politician in history and has half as much money as you to campaign?
>inb4 muh popular vote Yeah that's not how your presidential elections work guys (not saying they shouldn't work that way btw), the democrats knew this, no excuse.
Easton Nelson
What communism? Tau aren't communists, Tau have a caste system, something that communism doesn't support
Jonathan Fisher
Necrons are the single most guilty race, dumbass.
Eldar and the Imperium have done about equal levels of damage to the galaxy. The Imperium keep doing it, though, so they get way less sympathy from me.
Owen Ward
>dark eldar
Also >creating a literal chaos god. >equal to owning a bloated and corrupt empire.
Anthony Sullivan
The Imperium feeds Chaos every day. It is by far the largest contributor to Chaos' mortal agents, and constantly creates the conditions for Chaos to thrive in the material world. Its civilians are so ignorant and desperate that they fall to Chaos with supreme ease once exposed even slightly and their greatest warriors cannot fucking stop turning evil. The greatest and most powerful of Chaos' armies in the physical world were all created by the Imperium and the Imperium constantly adds to them.
Additionally, its xenophobic incompetence is the primary reason why there is no solid alliance or truce existant in the galaxy despite there being a huge existential threat looming in the Warp.
So yeah, the Imperium are worse than the Eldar. The Eldar fucked up once spectacularly, the Imperium continues to fuck up on a daily basis, and prevents anyone else in the setting from getting their shit together.
Isaac Jenkins
He won because he told ~100, 000 rust belters that he'd revive coal. I'm not saying Hillary was right to assume she'd win those states and not campaign there, but still.
Julian Diaz
It's the 'Greater Good' thing that seems to be throwing off a lot of people. I guess because since Capitalism isn't really a system that builds upon that ideological foundation, the idea is so foreign it confuses people.
Sebastian Hall
They are going to be so fucking livid when they realize that coal is never coming back.
William Jackson
In their hearts of hearts, and black lungs, they know that already. It was really that Trump was talking about, and to them, specifically that made them want to vote for him. That he's also protectionist on trade and wants to deport all the Mexicans that compete with them for the low and low-mid tier jobs only makes him seem more credible and trustworthy, to them.
Kayden Lewis
>Greater Good I really don't get that. Imperial is 100% more like communism than Tau. They even have tithes - you work your balls off, and these guys in space ships come and take away most of what you make in exchange for food, and if you don't give them the stuff they kill everyone in charge and install a new regime that will obey.
Gabriel Morris
>Mutation is seen as a sign of spiritual corruption and there is evidence for that, but I believe there are also just mutants who are the result of normal means. Yeah, it occasionally comes up in the fluff. Some mutants aren't Chaos-related, they just drew the genetic short straw, got exposed to some sort of mutagen or radiation, etc.
Most people in the Imperium are superstitious tits though, so they automatically assume heresy.
Kayden Garcia
Well, the Tau are totalitarians with a strong streak of utopianism in them. They claim their system has a place for everyone and that once their system is victorious there can be peace.
I can see how that reminds people of communism; especially if you hold it up next to the Imperium, a more classically fascist kind of totalitarianism (life is permanent warfare, there is no place for the untermensch/xenos, pacifism is treason).
But yeah, the Tau are not communists; they do not even pretend to egalitarianism.
Cooper Rogers
I think you are putting too much emphasis on the Craftworld Eldar and not enough of (much more numerous) Commorites. Who are feeding Slaanesh constantly and can't even plead ignorance.
Ian James
What you have described is just feudalism. There really is nothing communist about that.
Lucas Perez
What does the community gain from accepting mutants exactly? Especially if they can't function. You're thinking with modern leftist morality.
John Sanders
user, it is facist ideology to judge someone based on birth, not deeds. I fully accept it's safer that way, but don't claim moral superiority because you shit on people because they were born versus whay they do. >I am drunk and high on nicotine from multiple cigars, pls excuse my grammar and spelling
Aiden Bailey
The Imperium incinerates their own hives as part of the planetary governor's sunday funday romp
Jack Carter
>He's going to be your next president m8 >implying I'm American
Also he was liked when he was doing goofy shit on TV not running for president, m8.
Aiden Long
Gene variability? The exact evolutionary reason we have mutation?
Nathaniel Jackson
>Someone makes a mistake trying to do something amazing >Instead of learning from that mistake your should never try to do that amazing thing ever again even if you know exactly how to prevent the mistake now.
AI is the key to a powerful Imperium and the Mechanicum's fear of it is due to fear and misunderstanding spawned by their superstition and holds the progress of humanity back.
Mason Thomas
>Servitors in general, but especially the cherubs. Zombie robot babies are well past the usual levels of fucked up. Cherubs are vat grown, Normal servitor is either vat grown or criminal. >The treatment of psykers in general. Untrained psyker can easly be possesd by daemons, or even open warp rift on the planet causing chaos invasion. You need to cath them all to avoid such risk. >The retention of death world colonies. >The retention of feral worlds as colonies. From such waorld you have strong peoples, they are perfect for Adeptus Astartes. >An inability to generate lasting ties to the few not-crazy alien races/factions in the face of mutual extinction from the madness of everything else. And yes, I do consider the Eldar, Tau, and saner necron dynasties to be every bit as guilty of this. Xenos usualy attack Imperial planet, murder everyone and leave or conquer the planet. They only don't fight Imperium when greater threat is near like chaos or tyranids. Tau diplomacy is "join us or die" so what lasting ties you want with them? >Way too many skulls, guys. Way too damn many. Symbolism is important in Imperium >The Inquisition booting everyone and their mothers into Labour Camps after the First War for Armageddon is pretty high up there. Chaos corruption is most dangerous thing in Imperium. Chaos is no ordinary foe, it not only attack you from outside but also corrupt from inside. That's why you need to hide all knowledge about it, it's simply to dangerous. >Localized atrocities like hunting people for sports, horrible working conditions, enslavement, horrible enslavement conditions and so on. It depends from the planet >Joyful extermination of non-spacefaring sapient species Reminder, about M35/36 Tau were primitive xenosthat fight by throwing rocks at each other. In M41 they are expanding xeno race with advanced technology. >The treatment of mutants in general. It depends on the mutant, chaos mutants are exterminated, ogryns serves in imperial guard.
Leo Jones
Tau are controlled by ethereals using pheromones. This is not serving the cause it is slavery.
Asher Clark
Or death causes you to fail that duty. Way to go fag.
Ayden Myers
I call him, and the entire process he took part in a massive failure.
Lincoln Clark
>They've incinerated entire Hives to prove a point and there are undoubtedly many many xenos within the Tau Empire that are only in there because they'd be wiped out otherwise. >they actually allow people into their empire and give them a chance instead of killing everyone who isn't their race Wow, that's so evil.
Tau generally conquer human worlds because the humans most of the time try to kill them on sight. Where the humans DON'T kill them on sight (see the Ciaphas Cain novels) they get along just fine until the tyranids stir up a fight.
Jayden Mitchell
It was mentioned somewhere in the lore that the cherubs have to be made from actual children, because the way regular servitors are grown makes it impractical to do so. Also they're used as a status symbol by the wealthy because grimdark.
The cherubs are basically an example of how petty the Imperium can be in terms of evil. There is no greater justification for converting children into cherubim, the human race would not be threatened if the Imperium stopped. All they simply represent is a means for the aristocracy to flaunt their power by abusing technology and their fellow human beings. Not too much different from some of the techno-barbarians the Emperor encountered when he unified Earth.
Evan Rogers
That's the opposite of everything I'm seeing. They're bespoke vat-grown creations. No actually children were harmed in the making of.
Blake Carter
*looks up lore*
Ah, I see. The "made with actual babies" thing got mostly retconned because it made the Imperium look too grimdark.
Camden Howard
If you do anything outside of your mandated caste, you are instantly lobotomised and turned into pseudo-servitor. In new Tau book, there is earth caste girl that likes sculpting. Since earth caste is supposed to only work itself to death, it's forbidden, and the novel tells us she acquired illegal pulse pistol to off herself if ever discovered.
It is so bad that commander of all Tau forces, Farsight, in the middle of battle, was accused by caste breach (read - pressed reset button in his suit during combat after space marine bolt disabled it). He was given choice - lobotomise your old master, or yourself.
Then you have farsight enclaves book. Remember puretide chips you buy to give commander a bonus? These are also inserted by lobotomisation, and the wearer has a few years left to live, loses all personality, and pretty much turns into a drone. Farsight deserted after ethereals told him to kill his friend, as his life span was nearly over and the chip was needed elsewhere. The logical option, keeping the 'wearer' in stasis to stop deterioration (which is what farshight did after deserting to save his friend) was judged too expensive.
IoM is million times better than this, they at worst can kill you.
Ayden Davis
>IoM is million times better than this, they at worst can kill you. dude they LITERALLY servitorize folks when they don't have enough servitors. Why do you think servitors are synonymous with the imperium to begin with?
James Ramirez
>IoM is million times better than this >IG cucks are this delusional
Jaxon Butler
>Boo hoo lobotomies and brainless cloned meat so awful
>Lets be nice to the filthy cultists holding our entire empire at ransom and putting all of us in constant risk of the most agonizing deaths immortal pain predators can imagine
>How dare the imperium provide assistance in return for paid laborers!
>How dare the imperium provide desperately needed protection in return for taxes! What do they think they are? A country!?
>There are so many nice species! That would maintain peace like-!...uh...The Demiurg? Maybe?
>How dare the imperium commemorate loyalty by making some part of a man last forever!
>How dare we not just let chaos taint run rampant! What do we think we're doing? Fighting a desperate war for the survival of the species against chaos?
>How dare we not allow an alien race to grow up and wage war and genocide against humans? We need at least 40 more tau empires you guys!
>How dare we not be nice to the people literally physically altered by chaos due to how deeply rooted in their bodies it is!
Burn yourself, heretic. I'd do it but that would mean having to smell your filthy, unwashed, xenos fetishizing body.
Joseph Nguyen
Having C. S. Goto as a chronicler of Imperial history is a pretty bad one.
Cameron Roberts
>Rape camps >Forced pregnancy >Mind controlling alien governments >militarily enforced caste system >forced labour with no mention of compensation ever >literal enslavement of alien species >Eugenics >Genocide >Aparthied >Segregation >Mass propaganda campaigns >Eradication of self determination >Illegalizing love >Banning consenting relationships between races of the same species >Colonialism >Lobotomizing people for political opinion >lobotomizing people for sculpting (Everyone in the imperium can have hobbies) >punishing you for maintaining your own equiptment (not even the IOM does this. You're expected to keep your shit together.)
Joseph Morris
Feral worlds are by and large left to advance naturally until a certain point at which stage the imperium modernizes them. This is to allow it to watch the feral worlders develop sacred, human technology. Before this thye only really deal with the church.
Yes. That's right. You can invent in the imperium.
Carter Thomas
>>Servitors in general, but especially the cherubs. Grim, but it's not like they kill babies to make them. The Imperium just has that many dead babies laying around. The Imperium is also extremely gothic - and I mean the art movement, not the kids at hot topic and Starbucks. It's not as grotesque to them.
>The treatment of psykers in general Necessary evils since every pysker is a portal to a dimension of hell and rape waiting to happen. The black ships are pretty bad but that's because of logistics - stretched too thin is the Imperiums motto
>Aliens Born from paranoia based on humanities past when their many alien allies turned on them during the rebellion of the iron men
>Skulls Religious symbol. They couldn't get away with crosses/it wouldn't make sense. The skull represents the emperor the way a cross does Jesus. Just mentally replace every skull you see with a cross and enjoy Deus vult
>Exterminating aliens
See above
>Hunting humans for sport, the Inquisition
Yeah both of these are true. This is a reflection of the fact the Imperium is a hastily conquered and assembled adhoc collection of infinite cultures with no oversight on its elite as long as they pay tribute.
>Mutants
Mutation carries with it the potential and stigma of chaos, officially they don't even let them live at all
Jace Watson
Horrible thing the Orks have done.
>have a jolly ol time.
Robert Wilson
There are many times more Humans than Commorites, and thus they feed Slaanesh much more.
Luis Cooper
>IoM is million times better than this Filthy xeno scum aside, a nice lobotomy sounds quite pleasant compared to this:
One of the Priests of Mars books goes into some detail about being turned into one. Imagine the Stroggification process from Quake 4, but a lot worse. Also, no one saves you at the end.
Isaac Edwards
Cherubim are vat grown servitor babies The Nephilim are real babies who were transformed into servitors (Mostly because they were a Beta-Class Psyker and as such a danger for the people around.) They are used to help as psyker focus.
Joshua Evans
Oy vey, remember the gorillions of humies the orks threw into the ovens
Aaron Moore
>Angola Anatolia*
Asher Wright
>all these good things Greater Good looking pretty great
Owen Sanders
Fuck off already you slobbering retards
Gavin Sanders
>religious suppresion You are free to venerate the Omnissiah and the Emperor in a shitload of ways. That makes them far less supressive than for example the Tau.
Elijah Ross
>Mutants
Mutation carries with it the potential and stigma of chaos, officially they don't even let them live at all
I think he means Space marines and abhumans
James Price
Skitarii can vary from quasi servitors to fully sentinent autonomus individuals. They are not standartized regarding their modifications or equipment. Every forgeworld and legion is different.