SHOOTING: - Shootingh - either MG or Main Gun - Shooting at Aircraft - similar to TY - 8inches for AA safe zone - Like in TY - LoS to Aircraft can never be blocked - terrain like in TY - either tall or short - 2 inches from the edge of terrain you can see normaly otuside but you are concealed - teams in upper flors of buildings see teams outside in buildings not ceonceald, even in short terrain - No HE is now +1 to shoot - After shooting on Aircraft in enemy turn, apart from no def fire and shooting and assaulting turn after, you may NOT be GtG until the end of enemy's next turn - When you rotate to hit, you can rotate the turret OR rotate the whole tank 90degrees - shooting through smoke is only +1 to hit - your hits must be assigned to the same type of teams and 6 inches within hit team - MAn packed gun teams and light/medium guns are now 3+ save - Heavy and Immobile guns are 4+ save - Aircraft has it's own save now - 3+ usual and shooter needs to pass FP test to kill it - passengers in destroyed transport retain their usuall save - 3+ or 4+ - Everybody get mission tactics - Warrior save is now 3+ - Unit with 12 or more teams at the start of the shooting step need 8 hits to be pinned - Commander morale reroll to every unit that is within 6 inches of commander and has LoS - Flamethrowers do not run out of ammo! - Breakthrough gun is now reroll to save, not instant fail
Charles Richardson
and the rest we know....
- Artillery - you have only 1 Observer, other units may spot depending on army - May not fire artillery bombardment if you attempted to dig-in! - aiming point may be on the ground, anywhere observing team can see, no need to put it on team - No more double width template - You only have three range in attempts for one observer team, if you range in on first, you may give the rest of range in attempts to another artillery, with penalites for second and third range in - you hit on enemy rating - 5 or more guns get reroll to hit - Staff teams are gone, so everybody have all guns repeat! - Change to Artillery FP and AT rating depending on whetever you hit infantry/gun team or tank: on Infantry (older FP/newer FP) - 1/1;2/2;3/3;4/3;5/4;6/4 on tanks (older AT/newer AT) - 6/3;5/3;4/3;3/2;2/1;1/0 - Repeat bombardment may be with different spotting team - Infantry and gun teams need to reroll saves when under Repeat bombardment! - 1 Smoke bombardment per game per artilery unit - LoS through Smoke is blocked unless you are within 6 inches, otherwise +1 to hit
ASSAULT - More or less like Team Yankee - Teams on small bases got +1 to hit in assault - Infantry choose how to hit tank - top armour against TA2/FP1+ or side armour against any AT weapon you have. - Shurzen is now Side armour 5 against At weapon with 5 or 6 FP
Ethan Sanders
Will IS-2s FINALLY BE WORTH IT?
Jayden Allen
Nope, they're Russian.
Cameron Lewis
We can hope that Soviets might get smoke this edition. They got it in Team Yankee after all.
Alexander Powell
Well breakthrough guns are getting nerfed down to brutal. It will almost certainly have slow firing. Not sure if it will get any buffs in assault, but my guess is no.
Zachary Anderson
Staff teams are guaranteed gone?
Josiah Scott
It will be something of a buff if panzerfausts and bazookas get nerfed to being side-firing instead of tank-assault. AT 10-12 vs side 8 and 5+ firepower is much nicer than AT 4-6 against top 2 and autobail.
Samuel Diaz
yea
Ayden Powell
>artillery nerfs was there a lot of reason to take artllery previously anyway. maybe it's the mostly metal paywall but i haven't seen it do much aside from dropping smoke or seen it all that much at all. >at 3 against any armoured tank >against the lightest tanks +2 ties
John Morales
I think basically everyone took mortars or nebs if they could unless you were doing a hardcore arty park. If you can't do arty parks anymore and mortars are getting even better at killing dug in infantry then yeah, literally no reason not to.
Ayden Cooper
Yeah, good point. I couldn't quite remember the stats for the side armor of the IS 2. Not sure if bedspring armor will be a thing, but it already seems better.
I play soviets and take heavy mortars every time. They were cheap and had good firepower and serviceable AT. The 160mm mortars that came with Berlin with AT 4 were truly special. Generally artillery is nice to pin infantry down and punish them if they are caught in the open. Some pieces could be effective against armor with a little luck.
I am sad that I will probably never get to use my 203mm howizers at their true v3 glory of AT 6, but it also seems that they will have a 4+ save (and hopefully retain volley fire) so I can roll them up.
Tyler Cooper
Hungarians got nerfed
>Zrinyis >149mm
The 2 best national units
Josiah Bell
I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that Soviets would still be shit garbage tier in V4.
Nathaniel Kelly
Decloaking to throw my 2 cents in publicly.
Soviets aren't shit garbage tier in V3. The hero tabkovy lists, the IS-2, and depending on who you talk to the SU-100. They have some lists that can be quite good. Hen and Chicks limits your flexibility, but you can still perform well. I think the non hero T-34 is a great tank in FoW.
Battlefront has a very particular view of how the Soviet army operated in WW2 (and the Cold War). It's a view I don't always agree with and to some extent I think it does disservice to the wartime performance of some of the men and women who fought for the Soviet Union. However, Flames of War being what it is, I can live with it.
Honestly v4 has me a little annoyed by how much BF is sticking their hand in the cookie jar, changing all sorts of rules that probably could have been left. I'm willing to give it a go though. I don't see anything that really bothers me so much I won't play. I am probably most concerned about arty being used as a primary means of digging out infantry and morale (if in fact we are getting TY morale: in that case strelkovy and tankovy will be getting a major buff and there is less of a reason to run Guards).
For the Soviets particularly, I haven't seen anything thus far that is going to screw them over big time. Getting mission tactics is pretty nice. Like I said before morale is going to make a huge difference since you have large companies. I think the rule changes are looking pretty good for my Tankovy. We will see what they do with hen and chicks, but if it's similar to how it is now, that is fine by me.
Jeremiah Adams
thee is some extreme memeing over Soviet weaknesses.
though i saw a new player almost die once he realized what Hen & Chicks actually did...
Jayden Lewis
Theyre the weakest of the big four (britain is also down there from what i recall) with usa and german so far ahead it reeks of extreme blatant favouritism
Tyler Perez
Compared to most nations the brits and soviets are fine, it's just the US and Germany that're really good.
Parker Jackson
Yeah, this is pretty true. A few minors have some ok lists like finns and LW hungarians and MW carri but it's very niche. As much as BF kinda shits on the Soviets there are many minors that have it worse.
EW is just a mess though and EW actually does have overpowered Soviets.
Adam Stewart
H&C ain't so bad when you buy the bargain stuff but the iconic Soviet gear is not it.
Matilda IIs and Stuarts ftw.
Jaxon Parker
Because fuck muver ruska amorite?
Brayden Bell
Oi! you!
shagged ur mum 4 a fiver!
the fact we have overpowered Soviets anywhere was hilarious. here is a list of powerfull soviets, BTW: >EW T-34's >EW infantry >opening game team yankee, before the West & Brits >TANKS soviets >that one list in 2008
So they're following through on their promises. Free books to be shipped directly to you.
James Brooks
>Compared to most nations the brits and soviets are fine, it's just the US and Germany that're really good. I'm of that opinion as well. as much as i want more toys for brits i thin the smaller powers could do with some more. i'd like to see the free pole army be a list if it isn't there and some love for the poles dispite their minor player status. Romanians need some love too, Hungarians, Italians hell any axis power that isn't Germany.
Jason Baker
The terrain rules I like. A lot simpler to use.
I also am totally okay with my man-packed guns getting a 3+ save now. Means my platoon of 47's won't die from being stared at too hard.
Not sure how new tank shooting rules will really impact my Italians.
New arty rules seem to be just a mess, though. Why fuck with AT and FP? Why only one observer team? Now you're making it harder for people to take multiple arty batteries(which is one of Italy's primary options for higher AT) because shooting with more than one a turn will be way harder.
The "only one smoke bombardment per a game" thing is alright.
Overall still iffy on v4. I suppose worse comes to worse I could still play ve with willing folks.
Brandon Hughes
>>that one list in 2008 Which one, user?
Gabriel Morris
T-34s can play just fine with hen and chicks. Not going to open the other can of worms, but yeah it would be nice if there was a better list to play them without hen and chicks. I guess there is always Finns or Beute Panzers.
There are some potato sucking misconceptions about the Soviet skill and battle performance.
It's a bit frustrating at first, but then you can manage it well enough because you have so many tanks. Even with Hen and Chicks the T-34 is far superior and less spammy then the T-55AM bullshit in TY, which is like somehow finding a way to spam CT T-26s. The T-34/76 will really benifit from its dash speed once dashing is actually a thing in v4.
In before Battlefront changes Hen and Chicks to make dashing harder for the Soviets
Anthony Perez
>In before Battlefront changes Hen and Chicks to make dashing harder for the Soviets
Dashing without getting clowned on would help T-34s a lot but imo they're too pricey for what they offer with the H&C restrictions, especially in late war.
Big nerf to the Soviets is the assault rules though that make it hard to participate.
I don't mind the AT and FP changes to make arty more broadly usable against their intended target. AT guns got a buff anyway. The 75/76mm pack howitzers/field guns were almost totally worthless with the previous rules.
Grayson Jackson
I mean, this is still a problem, because I've never been to a club where there weren't more big-four players than the rest put together and they're predominantly playing germans and americans.
Opening TY was a sweet spot for the soviets, where they had real strengths and weaknesses and could do stand-up fights. WGermany and Brits upset the scales a lot there.
Colton Butler
>Big nerf to the Soviets is the assault rules though that make it hard to participate. And going down to 8 pins to drive back.
Kayden White
Brits especially.
They have ungodly amounts of anti-tank missiles available to their infantry and air-mobile forces.
Logan Clark
Yanks and russkies are getting there own books this year aren't they, that should give them their needed boosts.
John Edwards
>heavily debating selling off an army or two because Im not super impressed with how the ruleset seems to be changing. >Battlefront offers up this
Goddammit I was so close to escaping too, but they pulled me back in.
>inb4 they're all delayed and none show up on time
Wyatt Scott
>>inb4 they're all delayed and none show up on time They're going to be delayed and then there's not going to be any germans for a month with no explanation while everyone's floundering on how to sell a game launch with one faction.
Aaron Campbell
Yeah, FA 16 could deal with 8 shots of AT 20, but not 20+ at AT 21.
I initially got excited when I realised they can't shoot if pinned but soviet artillery being skill 5+ (and the brits still being 4+) makes that real hard to work with.
David Rivera
HOLD UP >12 Skoda 100mm guns cost 355 points >12 Skoda 75mm M15s (the infantry gun Soviets use) are 180 points >I can """downgrade""" to the infantry guns and get exactly the same artillery capabilities (4+ fp no smoke), while MASSIVELY increasing survivability (medium base concealed in open foxholes with a 3+ save at all times), saving 175 points in the process >I have almost enough spare infantry guns and random crew to do this right fucking now THE AGE OF AMERICA IS OVER THE TIME OF THE GYPSY IS NOW
William Murphy
>The 75/76mm pack howitzers/field guns were almost totally worthless with the previous rules. I dunno about other armies, but my 75's have done me pretty well. Not game changing win all the time well, but certainly an extra little boost of firepower with solid range.
Leo Ortiz
>TANKS Soviets Nobody plays that, and it only adds +1 to any other tank's shot after the first (it doesn't keep stacking). US have the better national rule there. And the Soviet SU-100 is pathetic.
Owen Cox
Not to mention your Puscasi are going to fight nearly until the last man if the morale works the same as it does in TY. I for one welcome our new Romanian overlords.
Zachary Jones
Roll CT on the peasant army table and just shake your head at your big infantry blob as it spends the whole game pinned. That's been my experience with romanian infantry blobs.
Colton Cox
Quote from the hobby page from the Spandrel ATGM carrier for Volksarmee.
"The roof mounted launch system meant that the vehicle could hide its bulk, only exposing the launcher and gunner’s sight on the top of the roof to the enemy making it difficult to kill or suppress should the enemy even see the weapon firing."
>difficult to kill or suppress should the enemy even see the weapon firing
>hit on 3+ >No Hammerhead/Swingfire >4+ cross so you know you are bogging half of them when you go in the woods for concealment.
BF is trolling us with their fluff pieces.
Easton Allen
The issue really comes down to Brits, Germans, and Americans getting the lion's share of focused, fine-detail lists full of special rules and specific motivation/skill ratings that are thematic.
The problem with Brits is that while they have a lot of these fine detail lists, they get kind of passed over. The focus is there, but the rules crunch is lacking. Historically the difference between a company with 4 platoons with a 3-tank platoon setup, and 3 platoons with a 4-tank platoon setup, was extremely minimal. In Flames of War v3 however, the difference between those two setups is colossal in regards to morale, motivation, and the lack of crunch to compensate (no widespread fearless brits, motivation rerolls for under half, etc).
Soviets are in a different boat. Some of their crunch works, under the VERY strict pretense that all you go highly motivated horde. But the fine detail is not there at all. Everything is widespread, over generalized, and generic, with very few options for motivation/skill. The difference in gameplay between the 53rd Guards Tank Brigade, and the 170th Tank Brigade that Bryuhov Vasily Pavlovich was part of, is miniscule. It amounts to Fearless vs Confident, and whatever thematic options you -decide- to limit yourself to. In history however, the differences were immense... The 170th Tank brigade was a meatgrinder brigade that went through replacement tanks as fast as they received them. Pavlovich attests to the ruthlessness of the brigade's commanders, and the idiocy of the orders they frequently received. Whereas the 53rd Guards Tank Brigade was a Red Banner awarded veteran brigade from Stalingrad that lasted through the entire war. And they were highly decorated, and renowned for taking on numerically or technically superior opposition with minimal losses. Even to the point of ambushing and wiping out a column of 3 King Tigers with no losses.
Landon Green
Or you end up with the biggest, hardest to shit blob of dug in veterans sitting on an objective... I've seen that in person. 3 turns of volley firing SU-122s couldn't make a large enough dent for my assault to have a mediocre chance of winning.
Luke Robinson
This but it's better when they're an entire army on their own like the italians. Infantry? Nah, HMGs. Tanks? Nah, AT guns. Leave them alone? Nah, they're artillery too.
Hunter Collins
"Nobody" plays TANKS because BF drastically underestimated demand and they sold out of what they thought would be 3 Months worth of stock in something like 3 DAYS.
Then add in the time it takes to schedule a second production run, produce the second production run, and get it shipped out.
It was essentially a dead game for anyone who didn't get their hands on the initial release.
Connor Martinez
Anyone have a conversion chart for Battlefront's old paint range to Vallejo? Or know what the old Brown Violet is called in Vallejo's range? Colours of War sucks.
Jaxon Phillips
BF's old paints are Vallejo paints.
So Brown Violet would be Brown Violet.
Kayden Clark
This is my attempt at a fluffy Berlin list for a tournament. The only ahistorical bits are the forced mounted unit (duh) and the ISUs would probably be SU-100s but they kinda suck ingame. Other than that, this is a fairly bog standard Berlin assault detachment. Because this is a tourney I am open to ANY changes to do better--this is just the casual core. Building to 1790.
Angel Baker
>Or you end up with the biggest, hardest to shit blob This conversation took a turn...
Jordan Hughes
Oh yeah, this is a theme tourney so ONLY 1945 lists are permitted.
Bentley Flores
Par for the course lately, what with WaterSportsGate...
Seriously, what is it with /pol/ and pee? Weren't they also the jackasses behind Piss For Equality?
Jacob Ross
My only question is "why cavalry?"
Especially in 1945.
Tyler Bennett
Because they are the ONLY source of veteran T-34s for some reason.
Hunter Cook
now that was old /b/ along with free bleeding
Ryder Russell
Soviets loved them some cavalry. Less fuel intensive than mechanized/motorized troops with more mobility than infantry. They had a lot of experience in WWI and the Civil War that told them horse cav could be useful.
Elijah Jenkins
Anyone know how to remove the top magnet out of a pah?
Oliver Jenkins
Is this for real? Everything they've made that mentions how it fires behind cover has been hammerhead or equivalent so far, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't. It might be a typo.
Austin Powell
...
Isaac Cruz
Try using several equally strong magnets to pull it out of it's hole.
Sometimes that's powerful enough to overwhelm the strength of the superglue.
Gabriel Campbell
Put it in a freezer and wedge a screw head beneath the magnet. Superglue's brittle when cold, it'll snap out.
Logan Thompson
LaBamba, tell me you have at least 3 Gun-team platoons of actual guns (not mortars)
we need to do the Charge of the Light Brigade before v4....or at least, using v3.
oh, shit.....
Thomas Anderson
inb4 heavy tourney swing to Romanian. inb4 more plastic Roma. TURK WILL NOT BE ONLY THING INTO REMOVED.
John Smith
>tfw I'm more interested in buying models and painting them than playing at this point
Gavin Bennett
Volksarmee was a mistake
Robert Walker
Phil was a mistake.
Oliver Barnes
That too
Xavier Richardson
You were a mistake.
Brayden Torres
...
Henry Gutierrez
Counter point: East German Military A E S T H E T I C.
Oliver Williams
>East German Military A E S T H E T I C. >east germans >>>/gulag/ tovarish
Yeah, seriously. This was the one big thing I was hoping for from a WW3 scenario. But they're not tanks, so haha. Maybe in a couple years...?
Kevin Thomas
NBC?
Jaxson Cruz
Nuclear/Biological/Chemical
Basically, what troops would be running around in once the balloon went up.
Bentley Perry
...
Sebastian Powell
I would like to play a s.t.a.l.k.e.r. army. fuck i would switch to Russians to do that if it was Russian only
Nicholas Morales
i see zero airtight uniforms
0/10, would gas.
you. i like you.
Carson Ortiz
>i see zero airtight uniforms
Yeah, wouldn't troops have to almost literally duct tape themselves into those suits to create air-tight seals?
Cooper Davis
It's obviously a for fun picture, comrade. To political indoctrination with you.
Wyatt Torres
Uh...I have an anti-tank platoon with 4 47's.
I also have a cannon battery of 75's.
Camden Lewis
those are good...
feel like offering a christmas list?
why not 1 more round of guns....?
Ayden Adams
This is Phil's world. We are all just living in it.
Liam Morgan
I want to pick up a battery of 100/17s and a battery of 102's in the future.
As for 47's; I plan to grab some Bersagleari(I'm sure I fucked that spelling) with them as well.
I need to get two more 14/41's; I only have 3 at my disposal currently. Thankfully Gajo has them.
Ryder Morris
...
James Butler
And if I'm gonna play EW I'm determined to get some tankettes. They're just such cute little flamethrower weilding bastards.
Colton Ross
what a smug motherfucker he is.
Elijah Allen
...
Oliver Wilson
As I pointed out, Phil does have a twisted point there. The T-72 was meant to iron out the problems with the T-55 design. I'm just waiting for T-80s. At least he can't fuck those too hard. They have ERA, Thermal and better autoloaders. The West did not like them, so good luck trying to smack them with the nerf bat.
Christian Evans
I am just going to weep silently as I click through all the pictures of T-55AM parking lots on Facebook. I think I may paint my WARPAC stuff up as North Koreans.
Honestly at this point who knows about the T-64B.
Noah Butler
>T-80 >hit on 3+ >FA 17 >Cross 4+ >Same gun as the T-72, with no improvements for the autoloader
How am I doing thus far with the bat?
Nathan Lopez
Oh, and the thermals are Soviet, so suck (IR rules), and ERA is also Soviet, so sucks (SA 14 against HEAT).
Wyatt Watson
You're deliberately trying to hurt me.
Anyway looking at the stats on Wikipedia, the T-80U is actually better protected on paper than the M1A1 Abrams. Plus Gun Missiles and a Diesel Turbine. Even if they're still hit on 3+ like the rest of Soviet Forces, it'll be be yuuuge. It'll be like spamming King Tigers at RT. Because it's basically a NATO tank for cheaper and better morale. Probably. >T-80U : Hull & Turret with Kontakt-5 780 mm vs APFSDS 1320 mm vs HEAT >M1A1: Hull & turret – 600 mm vs APFSDS, 700 mm vs HEAT
