This nigga

Ulthanesh then?

Who ever he is, he's a stone cold motherfucker.

Standing around like it's cool with that many BT's around. You know every one of them is just itching to murderfuck him with their swords.

Of those three I would go with a corsair, they are proud bastards with a taste for swag. Exodites are willing to dispense with their space elf Amish bullshit when it comes to war, but I have a hard time believing an exodite would haul his ass to Cadia. I've never heard of pre-fall Eldar heroes appearing just now - some might have disappeared into the webway and have since been pulling heroic appearances a la the Legion of the Damned, but again, I've never heard stuff like that mentioned.

I have heard the Veilwalker was involved in that stuff, maybe s/he is some eldar hero affiliated with the harlequin who still carries some proper eldar armor?

wrong
-Yriel always wields the Spear of Twilight. Not a pair of swords
-the Eldritch Raiders' colors are dark blue and yellow/black stripes. Not red and turquoise.

Whoever it is it's fucking cool looking.

It's Illic Nightspear in disguise.

the Veilwalker is a harlequin and all harlequins wear a mask
>I've never heard of pre-fall Eldar heroes appearing just now
it's the Time of Ending, innit? Sounds like a pretty appropriate time for mythical heroes to pop up.
If Belisarius Calw (who's been around for 10 000 years) has never heard of an eldar with that kind of armor then surely he's not your average corsair/exodite asshole.

It looks like he has two big ol' warpvanes sticking out of the back of his armor. It could be Eldanesh - risen from the dead as a wraith in his old armor.

Maybe he's Drazhar/Arhra? He's got the two swords thing going on and the back things fit.

Guys.

Remember how aspect warriors work?

They put on the armor of another aspect warrior and get all his memories.

What if some eldars found the armor of Eldanesh, and got one of their boys to wear it?
If it works the same way aspect armors do, then his personality would be effectively replaced with the remnant of Eldanesh's.

But that's just a theory
a gay theory

Eh, not really. He doesn't have the characteristic bits of the incubi apart from the wing-blades (and those aren't unique to incubi)
also let's not forget that Arhra IS A CHAOS ELDAR.
WHY WOULD A CHAOS ELDAR HELP THE IMPERIUM STOP CHAOS?
looks more like trophy blades than like warpvanes
also the armors of dead eldar warriors can be worn by another dude to effectively resurrect him, no need for wraith bullshit

For one, Veilwalker has a vagina. He is a she.

Two, she wears a mirror mask that reflects the face of the person who is talking to her or ripples and transforms into the face of somebody else.

I dunno, the helmet with the t-shaped visor.

I agree it's a stretch, but it's about all there is that fits imo.

Ahra rejected Chaos in the end before he died or so his followers claim.

Yriel has a bionic pirate eyepatch.
that's where the emblem of the Eldritch Raiders comes from.

It's deep cover.

that's lame
and extremely unlikely

It's just the helmet of an average Kabalite warrior.
In fact it's closer to a Kabalite helmet than to an Incubus helmet since it doesn't have horns, and has a crescent moon instead.

Who else?

loving that fluffy cape

Illic, stop wearing Motoko's outfits you big drag queen!

Yriel is a descendent of Ulthanash isn't he?

Wouldn't he be buttmad as fuck if Eldanesh came back from the dead?

It's the end times dawg, sometimes you just gotta eat your buttrage and kill some spikey boyz.

>The Path of the Eldar ain't free. The House of Ulthanash gotta be litterd with the soulstones of autarchs. Eldanesh aka "Shilldanesh" is not my sire. he is khaine's enemy and probably dark eldar as well :DD SOULSTONES and wraiths not aspects and Vaul's blades ok. praise khaine.

Yeah, if the Veilwalker is confirmed to be a harlequin and not just someone who works with them, it's rather unlikely.

I still doubt that it would be some pre-fall mystical figure, though.And yes, it's definitely not just some regular Joe Eldar, but it could be some new character GW has not detailed yet.

Veilwalker is a chick with a harlequin mask

Who knows, maybe it's Malekith.

>both craftworlder armor and dark eldar armor

Aspect and Incubi armour specifically. It's fucking Arhra. How is this any mystery? There's only one character with a tie to both Aspects and Incubi.

>I've never heard of pre-fall Eldar heroes appearing just now

You've never heard of Phoenix Lords before? They're kinda fundamental to Craftworld society as well as the Rhana Dandra.

>You've never heard of Phoenix Lords before?

They are not Pre-Fall. They are formed from a group of Fall survivors.

>They are not Pre-Fall.

Learn the basics of the lore.

>People saying it's Eldanesh
>People not recognizing Incubi armour
>People not knowing who Sylandri Veilwalker is
>People not knowing what Yriel looks like
>People saying Phoenix Lords didn't pre-exist the fall

No matter what, Veeky Forums will always be bad at xenos lore. Always.

I have, you idiot. I read Gav's "Hand of Asuryan". Asurman was a Fall survivor so was Jain Zar who was his first student. He found the rest and trained them.

You need to die screaming in pain for acting smug while being clueless.

Asurman in his mortal life was a fuccboi during the Fall. After the Fall happened he transformed himself into Asurman by mediating in Asuryan's temple amidst the ruins of his home world.

More than once, if you put the different Eldar myths together though whether you're supposed to is another matter. Khaine started the War in Heaven when he killed Eldanesh, but at the climax of the war, after Khaine defeated Vaul and claimed Anaris, Faolchú retrieved the sword and delivered it to Eldanesh to fight Khaine with.

(Of course, that can be explained with pre-Fall reincarnation for those who want to rationalise it in such a way.)

They're like that.

>Slau Dha stepped forward to face Alpharius. The Astartes followed him with their weapons, but he ignored the threat.

>‘Well?’ he asked, in halting, thickly accented Low Gothic. ‘What is your response, mon-keigh? Do you have the strength to make this choice, or are you just as weak and self-serving as the rest of your vermin species?’

The book that gives a detailed account of Asurmen living pre-fall? The book that has him living before everything goes wrong? The book that has him see the rise of pleasure cults? And yet you're saying he's NOT prefall? You're an idiot.

Asurman as a person lived before the fall. Asurman as a Pheonix Lord didn't.

He pretty clearly said the the Phoenix Lords were not pre-fall, not that the people who would become Phoenix Lords were not pre-fall.

HE WAS NOT ASURMAN back then, you idiot. He was a random pleasure seeking fuccboi with no real combat experience.

Asurman is what he became AFTER his medoidation in Asuryan's temple AFTER the fall. You fuck.

You don't know anything about Eldar lore. Go away.

>

>Asurmen doesn't count as pre-fall because that was his first life

Way to shift goalposts. Their first lives count and are the bedrock of who they are. If you bothered to read the basic fluff you'd know PLs never change identity no matter how many lives join their spirit pool.

>PLs never change identity no matter how many lives join their spirit pool
But that's completely irrelevant to what we're saying.

Asurmen and all the other lords aren't pre-Fall heroes because they weren't heroes before the fall, and the guy you were arguing with clearly acknowledged their presence before the Fall, referring to them as Fall survivors right here

You're the one shifting the goal posts. The original post clearly said "They are not Pre-Fall. They are formed from a group of Fall survivors." He's not talking about the people, he's talking about the titles and organization. None of that existed pre-Fall.

Look at the goalshifting.

The PL and their system did not exist back then. They were entirely different persons. More so in the case of Asurman who had a large portion of what he was removed and sealed within his ship.

New eldar shrine when

that fucker doesn't look like an incubus

he looks like a random kabalite warrior with two trophy blades

in fact his helmet looks like one of those in the kabalite warrior sprue

>But that's completely irrelevant to what we're saying.

You argued that he didn't exist pre-fall and that he Asurmen didn't exist until post-fall. I've demonstrated the first identity is the dominant identity.

>They were entirely different persons

Read the codex sample already provided that outright contradicts you.

>They are formed from a group of Fall survivors

How does one survive the fall without existing before it. You're splitting hairs like a madman.

>that fucker doesn't look like an incubus

Veeky Forums please... Just look at an incubus and look at him. Two obvious design features shared.

This has got to be bait at this point.

>You argued that he didn't exist pre-fall and that he Asurmen didn't exist until post-fall. I've demonstrated the first identity is the dominant identity.

Asurman persona, his system and teachins that he invented, and everything related to him did not exist prefall.

And again, the guy who would become Asurman mutilated his personality and soul becoming a different person.

Read the novel, it BTFO.

Eldarfags are and were always cancerous.

For example, this guy insists that necrodermis is not living metal

>Asurmen was completely different!
>Here's lore that says his 'mind is forever unchanged, driven for eternity by the dominant personality'
>T-that's b-bait!

Great contribution!

>everything related to him did not exist prefall.

Except his first, dominant identity and all the pre-fall PL weaponry.

Who is that? I mean, is this some fluff dropped in wd, or what?

>You argued that he didn't exist pre-fall and that he Asurmen didn't exist until post-fall. I've demonstrated the first identity is the dominant identity.
These two identities (which weren't even what I was arguing) are Iliathin and Asurmen, not Asurmen and all the Asurmens after, still making it completely irrelevant.

>Read the codex sample already provided that outright contradicts you.
Literally where does it say that Phoenix Lords existed before the Fall. Go ahead and highlight it.

If we followed your guidelines for what a pre and post fall hero is, then a WW2 vet born in 1916 also counts as a WW1 vet because they were alive during WW1, except they don't, because that's a complete failure of reasoning.

ONE
and not even an obvious one.
Eldar big bosses often have two banners, or wings or warpvanes in the back
dark eldar voivods often have at least one trophy blade in the back

it's not an obvious indication that he may be related to the incubi.

>Except his first, dominant identity and all the pre-fall PL weaponry.

Nope, his personality splintered. Take it like his it's like the situation with the Unnamed Namekian. Asuryan split his soul in half. One which is good which is Asuryan as we know him now (Kami). Two, the guy who is sealed inside Asuryan's ship who represents the darkness within the guy (Piccolo).

Two separate entities emerged from the same person.

>all the pre-fall PL weaponry.

No, Asuryan and Jain Zar left their home world with a pack of soulstones and IIRC some swords. They were survivors dressed in rags by that point.

>dark eldar voivods
Slav detected

This is kinda sad. I've posted it right before your eyes, but you're doing everything you can to avoid the fact the first personality is the dominant one and remains unchanged. There is so much mental gymnastics going on... I'll leave you with more pre-fall Asurmen shenanigans.

oh yeah they're called archons in britbongland
whatever

Asurmen created Stormlance post-fall so that has fuck all to do with anything. It says right in his codex entry his first personality is dominant and all you're interpretive bullshit doesn't change that.

>No, Asuryan and Jain Zar left their home world with a pack of soulstones and IIRC some swords. They were survivors dressed in rags by that point.

More stuff easily refuted by the codex.

I think he's quoting the new book, but I haven't read it so I wouldn't know.

This seems like a case of new lore superseding old lore.

That's a legend and the Eldar own codex says that Eldar legends are contradictory and allegorical.

Even the Wotdm Maugan Ra says that legends surrounding him are all over the place and that they change wildly with each telling.

But you know what beats legends and hearsay? Things spoken from the character himself.

>Novels superseding codex

No one gives a fuck about BL.

Here, I'll link my premise to you again so you can actually dispute it:

>Asurmen and all the other lords aren't pre-Fall heroes

That's it. I don't care about autismal disputes about personality or whatever else, I'm saying that Asurmen isn't a pre-Fall Eldar hero because he only became a hero after the Fall, (or during depending on whether you define Fall as the exact moment of birth or as all the events that happened shortly afterwards).

>But you know what beats legends and hearsay? Things spoken from the character himself.

You mean like where he talks about him doing stuff pre-fall?

Well, given everything that's happening it seems like a new Eldar Codex is probably in the works. It'll clear things up and we'll see which canon it decides to go with.

You and him are arguing the same thing, but different perspectives...

Right, so, I was born in the 80s. Today, I murder your entire family. Is it a 21st, or 20th century crime?

Obviously, its 21st, me having been born in the 20th century has absolutely no relevance to that specific context.

Asurmen existed before the Fall, but he was not a phoenix lord, he was the man who would become one later.

Saying that there are no prefall shrines, is correct, they were built, their roles created, after the fall, regardless of Asurmen being pre-fall.

>That's it

Yeah, and it's demonstrably wrong as we have them remembering their lives before the fall. You couldn't just say "soz, I'm wrong" and tried to squirm around the fact by arguing the original personality doesn't count. Then you got BTFO when it was pointed out the original personality is the most important. So suck my dick buddy.

>entry his first personality is dominant

Which was created post-fall by splitting the originally personality into two making Asuryan not the same person he was before.

>More stuff easily refuted by the codex.

Nope, these either scavenged after the fall or created later.

>regardless of Asurmen being pre-fall.

That right there was the entire argument though.

were their lives before the fall heroic?
If not, they are NOT pre-fall heroes

that's all

You're still not paying attention to what he's trying to argue.

He certainly did stuff before the Fall, because he was alive then, but he didn't christen himself as a Pheonix Lord until after the Fall. He was kind of a random jamoke before the Fall too, if people quoting the book are to be believed.

As a different character who has nothing to do with fighting or aspect warriors. P-Lords as they are post-Fall did not exist.

No, the argument is whether or not the phoenix lords were already badass armored dudes before the fall or not.

He's an incubus incubii need to kill an aspect warrior and incorporate it's armour into the suit

What new book?

>we have them remembering their lives before the fall
They lived before the Fall but only became heroes after the Fall. They are post-Fall heroes. They were not heroes pre-Fall, only post.

>arguing the original personality doesn't count
I'm not even arguing around personalities here user, this is simply a strawman.

>Then you got BTFO when it was pointed out the original personality is the most important
See above

I'm still waiting for you to present some sort of counter-point here. Do you have an example of these people being heroes before the fall?

You have it all wrong

Incubi need to incorporate the SHATTERED SOULSTONE of an aspect warrior into their suit.

a soulstone is normally worn over the heart or on a harness. Either way it's one big soulstone

this guy here has plenty of gems, but they don't look like soulstones.

>Which was created post-fall

Gee, now you're just outright lying and trying to pretend his first life wasn't pre-fall. The personality is never shown "splitting" in the scene in Asuryan's shrine. He simply prays and meditates and comes out stronger. You're just making shit up now.

No, it was "are PLs pre-fall". Read the thread.

Nah, no one here, well, aside from the ones going on about the soul splinter/meld technically, is saying he isn't prefall, is well established he was alive before the Fall.

But shrines, aspect warriors, PL's, the tactics and roles used, even if the weapons existed before (irrelevant), are all post-Fall.

its a bit like saying "Templar Knights exist since the bronze age because back then there were swords, shields, and horses", ignoring that the weaponry is not what made a templar knight, but the philosophy, creed, traditions, tactics.

Nope, his first life was a fuccboi was prefall.

But at some point Asuryan split his personality and threw the darker part of it in his ship making "the dominant personality" nothing like what came before it.

No, you read the thread.

>I've never heard of pre-fall Eldar heroes appearing just now

The emphasis on the hero bit. Were they heroes before the Fall? If not, then they are not pre-Fall Heroes.

It was brought up in relation to the possibility of Arhra wearing a pre-fall armor.

Therefore, the implicit, relevant question, is "DID THE PHOENIX LORDS ALREADY WEAR A BADASS SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE ARMOR BEFORE THE FALL?"
You know, an armor that looks even more ancient than what craftworlders and dark eldars wear, but similar to both.

Like the dude this thread is about.

Ad that's the point we are trying to reach and hammer into the Eldarfags head.

There are Admech, custodes, perhaps marine characters, and Orks with more combat experience than the PLs.

Setting-wise, the PL and aspect shrines are fairly young.

actually the only thing that's relevant to this thread is the armor and weaponry.

Why would there even be heroes pre-Fall? Wasn't the entire army made up of super-drones and automated systems and basically all Eldar spent every day fucking for literally millions of years?

IIRC.

In the Ultramarine plague series, a flashback shows a group of pre-Fall Eldar adventurers stopping a Nurglite outbreak. They count as heroes.

Because eldars weren't always lazy fucks with tons of robot slaves.

Once upon a time they were a powerful race of real badasses who fought gods and stuff.

We're talking ANCIENT heroes here

>They lived before the Fall but only became heroes after the Fall. They are post-Fall heroes. They were not heroes pre-Fall, only post.

This is complete goal post shifting. The original point of dispute was the claim "They are not Pre-Fall" despite existing and acting Pre-fall and being defined by surviving the Fall.

By your argument there are no pre-fall Eldar characters, because pre-fall was a time of peace and galactic dominance. No one was arguing if they were "heroes" during the fall. It was an argument if they were pre-fall at all, and some faggot couldn't admit defeat.

Also. everyone is conveniently ignoring the lore inconsistencies that has Asurmen being a Pre-fall hero: .

>I'm not even arguing around personalities here user, this is simply a strawman.

Many posters are arguing PLs don't count as Pre-fall because their original personality doesn't count. No strawmanning, that is literally their argument and it's been beaten.

That would be potentially tens of millions of years ago wouldn't it? How would any of them be alive?