Pathfinder General /pfg/
What kind of weird knick-knacks do your characters haul around? That thing you spent your last several gp at chargen on? Strange occultist casting implements? Unusual loot?
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It's reasonable to assume that stranger sneak attack stacks with other sources of sneak attack, because otherwise they wouldn't have called it sneak attack but precision or bonus damage.
Right?
If I may? I think the general idea is that sure, you'd like a character to be both flexible and powerful. However if you push that to the absolute limit, that can create one or two characters in the party that make the rest of the party feel useless even when fully optimized.
Like say someone finds UC Monk fun. They optimize it to the absolute Nth degree they can for what build they want.
Then another member makes, like, a Wizard, goes into that full crazy Int focus and outclasses them in practically everything but BAB. You have more skills, scaled better, with massive modifiers from all sorts of sources, spells for aeons, etc.
Since Pathfinder/D&D/tabletop systems tend to be based around 'teamwork' of you and other party members to accomplish goals, it stands to reason in order to actually let the Monk feel like he is contributing meaningfully you'd have to hold back on what you do in-session Sure you optimized your character mechanically, but you'd then have to play them un-optimally with your optimal build to keep other party members from feeling useless.
All because of the choice of class, and that classes necessary stats dictating, and the systems that can make other things function with that stat dictating how powerful you CAN make it. And this can't always be remedied since not everyone loves playing conceptually agreed upon 'Tier 1' or even 'Tier 2' classes.
So what would you recommend to alleviate this? Because if 1-2 characters are handling EVERYTHING (utility, skills, combat) how are the other players supposed to keep up if they don't want to play the most powerful classes, since they may not find them fun?
Wrong. You get sneak damage from it, yes, and that will qualify you for prestige bullshit, but it specifically calls out getting that damage on a grapple.
You'll need your grapple to qualify for a normal sneak attack to stack them, and even then you're not getting grapple-sneak on normal sneaks.
>how are the other players supposed to keep up if they don't want to play the most powerful classes, since they may not find them fun?
Build something shitty but fun. I've still never actually met one of these super Wizards who can handle absolutely everything while the rest of the party holds his purse, but I'd still build an absurdly vain monk who spends most of his time oiling his abs and flexing. Or hoary old kobold rogue who talks like a racist fortune cookie and swears he's just the cook.
Is there an errata on this?
Doesn't need one, Strangler doesn't ever actually gain the Sneak Attack feature.
It just has something else that happens to have sneak damage attached.
Sometimes I wish these texts would be more explicit.
What else is wrong with the strangler? I thought the strangler was badly written?
>At 2nd level, when a strangler has the grappled condition, ... does not lose her Dexterity bonus to AC.
Pathfinder doesn't deny dex to AC through grapple anyway.
It doesn't say you get it only on a grapple. It's sneak attack, why would the regular rules not apply. Usually you need a feat to get it on a grapple.
>Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity.
Dexterity to AC is not the same as -4 Dexterity overall. You can be denied your Dex to AC and still not take an overall penalty to Dex.
>Strangle (Ex)
>At 1st level, a strangler deals +1d6 sneak attack damage whenever she succeeds at a grapple check to damage or pin an opponent.
It says exactly that. You deal sneak attack damage on successful grapple checks.
It is not actually "Sneak Attack" the feature, and as such will not stack with other class features named Sneak Attack that explicitly allow such a thing to occur.
>d20pfsrd.com
>If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice
Strangle has no such provision and isn't itself named Sneak Attack to qualify for it from another class.
Consider that a rogue with sneak attack will not apply sneak attack on a grapple.
And that sneak attack from different sources stack.
So you would argue that a rogue 5, sleepless detective 1, has "only" 4d6 sneak attack?
>Sneak Attack (Ex)
>This ability is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 for every three levels beyond the first. If a Sleepless detective gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.
Sleepless Detective has the wording that allows stacking.
So yeah, 3d6 from rogue levels and 1d6 from detective for 4d6 sneaks.
>The strangler is always considered flanking her target for the purpose of using this ability.
When this ability is clearly tied to grappling, why do they need to give the strangler's grapple flanking, which is one of the conditions of allowing sneak attacks to happen?
Because the writer was retarded.
I think flanking does give you a bonus to CMB for better grapple checks, though.
Is it this ability (grapple) or this ability (sneak attack on a grapple)?
Anyway, very poorly written.
SPREAD THOSE WINGS BABY !
The GM should ideally offset this by saying "everyone, play a tier 3 character" or "no full casters".
Alternatively, play a game where some characters are wholly incapable of doing some shit.