So besides literally being an army made of dirt what makes the rubric marines special?

>So besides literally being an army made of dirt
Lol have you seen the new book?

>being this retarded

sdf

No really.. in the new book the rubrics become humans again...

Yeah, a couple of the prodigal sons do for 5 seconds until they get tossed into the Warp. The rubric was not negated on any large scale.

>One squad is the entire army
Please fucking kill yourself.

>So besides literally being an army made of dirt what makes the rubric marines special?
He is talking about the main thousand son rubric squad you genius, not the whole army.

>Someone has the power to turn them back into humans
>Ahriman wants to kill himself
>Seriously thinking they will be forever lost in the warp and won't come back
>really
>Welcome to the Age Of The Emperor

>He is talking about the main thousand son rubric squad
What do you even mean? What 'main squad'???

>What do you even mean? What 'main squad'???
You know... rubric squads.. aka the "sand ones". That is what Rubric means usually. That is what he is asking about.
I don't understand your comment cause he is asking about how rubric marines compare to other regular marines. How can you be this stupid?

So lets get this straight. You walked into a conversion, missed the point being discussed, then insulted one side based because you cant follow along? Killing it mate, killing it.

Either way it's still cancerous

AP3 Bolters.

This makes them perfect against MEQs.

I'm pretty sure that equal points spent on stock CSM deals more MeQ damage, while also having twice as many wounds and melee output.
Rubric a shit, sadly.

Yeah no, thing is that stock CSM will be raped by Rubrics before they can even get to them. They cannot overwatch, run and pursue due to Slow and Purposeful, but they can move and shoot at their fullest.

You are talking here about Chosen. It's Chosen you want to unleash on Rubrics.

Also add to this that Rubrics have a 4++ Inv save, and that they have a Aspiring Sorcerer with a Force Weapon and Mastery 1 means that even your Chosen Champion will have some hard nuts to crack.

Also the new Soul Reaper Cannon can do a lot of hurt (24", S5, AP3, Heavy4, Rending) along with the whole squad being capable of taking Warpflamers.

Is that the same Soulreaper that costs 290pts? (More than a Wraithknight)

And 8 Bolters / 2 specials >>> 4 bolters / 1 pistol, even w AP3.

> what is a cover save

Not sure why you'd ever send Chosen against Rubricae. They're an expensive MeQ unit who's sole purpose is spamming plasma; literally the worst possible matchup for a unit with AP3 and a 4++.

Rubricae are bad even before considering that CSM are rolling in AP3. A bare squad could almost pay for a full Heldrake.

They can't die, not permanently. They are basically spirits in animated armor. They're incredibly tough, because they have no organs to injure, and they don't get tired. Also, their bolters are charged with warp-flame, so they fire bolts of energy instead of bolter shells.

The tradeoff is that they need supervision by a Sorcerer, and they're slow and cumbersome in melee combat.

Why did GW even bother to make so many beautiful models if the associated rules for them are unplayable?

I also need to mention that the Rubrics have been unplayable at least since 2000, and always for the same reason - the cost. Why can't GW understand such a simple thing even in 20 years?

>warpflamers

I think GW are too emotionally invested in the Son-Wolf rivalry and are unfortunately massive yiffs.
Until the studio can control their rampant wanking of the Space Wolves, Rubricae are doomed to mediocrity.

> AP4

If only Tzeentch had AP4 flamers.
If only they were even tougher than a marine with dope invuls.
If only they weren't S&P, but instead Jump Infantry with all the Overwatch and Deep Strike you could need.
If only they came in cheaper, in MSU format and weren't hamstrung by a 65pt champion.
If only.

Flamers are still held as shit, even after all these buffs.

>Aspiring Sorcerer
>Tough nut to crack
I sure do love only being able to roll on a shitty tzeentch table and get something that does absolutely nothing

>I think GW are too emotionally invested in the Son-Wolf rivalry and are unfortunately massive yiffs.
They made the Sons the first Legion to become its own army, that kind of contradicts your point.

Wolves need someone to shove about and bully on the tabletop.
Means players can now play out Bjorn fisting Magnus rather than just imagining it.

Probably the AP 3 bolters and flamers, or if you stick them next to a pipe line with said flamers and watch the hilarity insue

A 30pt model with an S4/AP4 Torrent isn't what I'd call hilarious, especially once you add the 58pt babysitter.
Consider that these models cost more than a Scatter-Bike and rethink.

>They made the Sons the first Legion to become its own army, that kind of contradicts your point.
If the 1kSons got their book before the SWs you might have had a point

A book that is shit rulewise. Unlike the yiffs, which are good rulewise.

You can't say they don't write fluffy rules
:(

magic obviously

Not the OP but I have a different question. What is stopping the Thousand Sons from recruiting normally? Did the rubric affect their geneseed and cause anyone who receives it to crumble into dust if they don't have psychic potential?

in the fluff the are good listeners and never complain

>along with the whole squad being capable of taking Warpflamers.
Spotted the GW shill. The Warpflamers are more of a sidegrade than an upgrade, and they sure as fuck aren't worth 7 PPM for a Rubricae. The rest of your post is also the kind of the retarded gibberish that GW likes to spout about the game.

They still lose to the Space Wolves like no other

Well, the vast majority of their geneseed got turned into dust, and most of the remaining sorcerers have been huffing warp dust for millennia at this point.

They do recruit, but I don't know if its specified what geneseed is being used. There's a Thousand Sons sorcerer in the Treacheries of the Space Marines anthology who got recruited post-Heresy (he's pretty baller).

In a Warpflame Host in an Incursion they're pretty baller. Three Jump Heavy Flamers for 69 points is a great deal, especially when they've got Daemonic Corruption.

>they are really tough to kill
You're thinking of Plague Marines

Zombies it armor are a bit hard to kill, but they're still just flesh. Rubrics are walking armor with a bound spirit.

>or their save whilst their main bonus is negated by standing in cover.
it dont matter, cast force and shoot at the units with more than 2 wounds. killing those with one shot is quite satisfying.

who is tougher in the fluff and crunch? Seems kinda dickish for the Transsexual Sons to encroach on the Death Guard's turf

>until they get tossed into the Warp
and so they died and their souls went back to the planet of the sorcerers where they became rubrics again... cool.

If the strength of the weapon is less than 8 then their exactly the same in terms of survivability. with or without armour.

If the weapon's strength is 9 then the thousands sons are slightly tougher.

If the weapon's strength is 10, then the Thousands Sons are way tougher.

In short, Thousands Sons survive better against about 5 guns in the game. Even then, if the Plague Marines grab a 4+ cover save they're better in every way.

>with or without armour.

Sorry, the Plague marines are actually much tougher then Thousand Sons if you don't pierce their armour.

They have the best fall of all the traitor legions.

And there is a WHOLE ARMY of rubric marines. Hundreds upon hundreds.
A few guys getting reverted doesn't mean anything other than "Look at what Ynnead can do if we wanted, but look we can take away what we give."
There's still 99% of them as dust in armor still. Your main squad point still makes no sense.

It was effectively a proof of concept, or a tech demo.
We don't know if they can do it to more than a few guys at a time anyway. So there is still an army of dirt people.
I bet you support kickstarters!

I wonder how much money gw lost making this kit, I can't imagine it sold that well

There own fault. I hope their rules writer got shit for WoM, because the modeler knocked it out of the park. There was so much hype that built up too, then day of the leaks, people were refunding left and right.

On Man was my wallet ever ready

Again, never preorder

> Invalidate all existing champion models
> Flagship 'unit' is a box of extremely expensive HQ models that you'll never need more than 2 of
> Fix literally none of the problems that have blighted the unit for 3 editions now
> Soulreaper is so impractical to implement, may as well not exist
> Entire army is built around AP3 with zero consideration for xenos or vehicles

Genuinely the worst Codex release I can think of, and that includes Orks/Tempestus

If they gave Inferno Bolts rending, it would have at least given them an answer to vehicles.

Fixed point costs could make the army playable. Just the point costs! Why won't GW understand this?

> TS have been awful in every iteration of their rules
> GW have stopped reworking units, only adding wargear or formations
> Expecting a miracle update

Not saying you deserved it, but how much were you really expecting?

TS are the one case that you cant just lower costs IMO, the unit/army is fundamentally fucked because it tools so hard against AP and MeQs.
Recosting against marines still leaves you fucked against armies that don't use AP like Orks, but balancing against that leaves you OP against marines.

The unit needs a total overhaul of its rules, or at least the Scarabs need to be as hard anti-xeno as the Rubrics are anti-MeQ.
And that's before dealing with vehicles, monsters and TeQs.

>mfw people can be this wrong

You could fix the points cost by simply getting rid of the mandatory aspiring sorcerer. Ksons cost 23 points base, so without him a 5 man squad becomes 115 points. Still not amazing, but not nearly as bad as almost 200 points for 5 in a rhino.

Or just give them the damn sorcerer for free, for what you're already paying for the squad (10 points more than regular marines) they can't slap a 1 wound dude with tzeentch-only powers and a force sword on for free? Give me a break, do I need to bust out literally any other codex besides orks or nids

yep, Khrove was cool. For those who haven't read the story, he called out an old Iron Warriors warband leader (interned in a custom dreadnought) who was holding an auction on some Eldar soulstones on being a self-important whiner and a shitty host, then got away with the Eldar soulstones after everyone starting shooting each other.

>and a force sword on for free
Force Staff. Dont want that aspiring sorc to do anything useful now do we? Beside now you have to buy new models as your old ones are no longer supported.

Why not? The old ones are fine, just slap a staff on the sorc, easy hand swap. Unless I'm missing something?

The Sorcerer is the point of the unit. The issue with current Thousand Sons/Rubric Marine unit is that the Aspiring Sorcerer is locked into a shitty discipline, can't take the Spell Familiar, and has a single wound. Sure, Warpflamers and Soulreapers not being pants-on-head retarded would be nice, but they aren't an integral part of the unit.

The issue with the faction as a whole is that they pay tons of points for their squad psykers who proceed to never cast anything due to a combination of inherent inefficiency (no Familiar) and lack of worthwhile spells and then they have to turn around spend several hundred more points on HQ psykers who can actually cast worth a damn.

Nothing. It doesn't take very long (compared to 10k years) to use slaves to turn even one progenoid gland into 1,000, for example.

Force only affects Sorc's force weapon.

Incorrect, it affects the entire unit. For example if there were 3 psykers in a unit, only one has to activate force for all their force weapons to be activated.

They also have a psyker, and get an invul save

TSons can in theory survive a barrage of battle cannons. Plague Marines cannot.

Tsons because tougher in a different way. And holy fuck AP3 bolters.

Only now they're in thrall of Magnus' loyalists rather than Ahriman's exiles. It's kind of surprising hs Ahriman hadn't run out of Rubrics if Magnus steals his dead.

ksons only have 1 force weapon in the squad tho

And?

>All this head-canon presented as fluff
;^)

so what are you talking about? why would force apply to any other weapons in the squad besides the sorcerer's force weapon? do you know what force actually does?

It doesnt apply to their weapons and that isn't what I claimed. Learn to read the argument presented. Force is a buff that effects the unit the psyker is in, in this case the rubric marines. This gives them their improved invulnerable save.

If you actually work out the points the Aspiring Sorcerer gets some decent discounts on his gear*. And you want to squeeze every mastery level you can get for cheap with psychic armies so if it was an optional +25pts to your CSM squad to make him a ML 1 psyker you'd take it in any case. Issue is the absurd cost of 23 pts per model for a Rubric when all of its "bonuses" either became a hindrance with the changes to SnP and Rapid Fire weapons or are completely situational (4+ cover is easy as tits to get and a 4++ doesn't help against most of the weapons people can use to kill infantry).

Lame Legion rules / Tzeentch lore certainly didn't help matters of course. Nor the fact that without decent Legion rules the base CSM squad to use as a reference isn't particularly great

*Whether or not you believe Chaos should be forced to take Aspiring Champions/a mastery level is worth 25 pts/etc. is another matter entirely.

>it dont matter, cast force and shoot at the units with more than 2 wounds. killing those with one shot is quite satisfying.
Did you jump into the convo halfway through and start mouthing off?

Apparently.

The astericks kills this unfortunately. Sure it might be "good value" with DIY points costs, but there's a budget bundle a available in the HQ sorcerer already that is just better. Best way to run Thousand Sons is with a count-as Sorcerer Aspiring Sorcerer in a unit of Chosen/CSM. Take Black Legion rules and you can even run your unique units still for the most part

Most elite MEQ's have a bunch of upgrades that are reasonable alone but add up to make something that's too expensive for what it can actually do/how durable it is. Thousand Sons and Grey Knights both really suffer from this.

What a bummer. They should treat Ksons sorcerors like warlocks--Able to be taken in their own deathstar unit or attached to rubrics. But with, you know, useful powers

They're gonna be the first legion to flip back to loyalist.

One primarch turns traitor, one turns loyal. Magnus is bringing his boys back, and Rowboat Girlyman is going to be the one to fall. He just casually handwaved the death of one of his honorguard to let Cypher through, who wants to get back to Terra and would need a fuckhuge army to get past the custodes to the golden throne. And that's how the emperor dies and whatever direction they take that goes.

Hence GW showing off Cypher and Girlyman fighting Thousand Sons, but the opposite of what people expected. Magnus' dudes are fighting the good fight and may not be made of dirt soon. When they're about to release a new edition that's supposed to completely change the game, what would draw more attention than the fall of the Ultramarines?

By Tzeentch, they're both even light(er) blue with gold trim.

Or do it Inquisitorial Kill Team/Deathwatch Kill Team style and just have the "unit" be a formation comprised of a Sorcerer and a unit of Rubricae or Rubricae Terminators.

There won't even be any big announcement, they're just going to swap the models in the book and see if anyone notices.

So iron hands then

So space marine wriathguard

>I bet you support kickstarters!
What kind of faggot thinks this is an insult?

As someone who did it in the past: this is a huge insult to your intelligence.

They got a rad armor design

>As someone who did it in the past: this is a huge insult to your intelligence.

(I'm not the stupid guy who thinks the Rubrics are a single squad)

Why? Because I'm willing to risk some outlay of cash to get a promising project off the ground?

I've literally backed over a hundred, and very few have been massive shitshows (there are warning signs most of the time something is going to be a horrifying failtrain).

I'd much rather put my money where my mouth is and maybe get something cool than to sit on my ass on the internet complaining "why does no one make stuff I want?".

They...wuz kingz n sheeit?

Seriously though it's a thematic flavour thing, not an actual gameplay thing, I mean in fluff they're basically Alphonse Elric that can be resurrected after dying, on paper they're fearless marines with better AP on the bolters.

I miss when rubric marines had two wounds.