All human and dwarven nobles are lords or kings

>Dwarves not esotoric mysterious beings that live far beneath your feet
>Elves not elusive legends of the forests that dance in the corner of your eyes when you travel the wild
>Orcs as anything other than slaves to an evil overlord
>Halflings not as furtive creatures that live right under your feet
>Gnomes not as tiny critters that take care of forest animals
>any of them
>having a coherent and understandable government
lame
At what point did fantasy creatures turn so mundane?

He's trying to imply some kind of DEUS VULT, user. A common perception.

What if non-humans went DEUS VULT?
Hell, orcs already do

OP Here.

I kind of forgot to mention I have been stuck in a quagmire of shitty DMs who think like this and I needed my faith restored in the creativity of our people. I was attempting to sum up these ideas quickly and failed.

These are fairly interesting especially the idea of Frankish Crusader Orcs.

And I agree with you and want to add that when you reach the point you orcs are merchant lords with pompous look and a cunning for trade, then choosing to still say they are 'orcs' is obnoxious, if not outright stupid.

It's not that all orcs should be the same. But it's one thing to take some stablished and well known facts about orcs and expand on that to give them new characteristics. But to simply say they are strong, green skinned man with tusks, but otherwise behave entirely different from orcs, it's just a poor attempt at being 'original'. When you look at it, it's not that your orcs are merchants and traders, but rather you choose to slap the label 'orc' on them and make only the most irrelevant, cosmetic aspects of the orcs apply to them. Even worse than changing orcs into something that has nothing to do with orcs, not because it's a core element to some point you are making in your history bu rather change for change's sake, is simply randomly assign fantasy races names and appearance to cultures that have nothing to do with them.

Sure you could have green skinned traders. But you'd be better off building a new race with a new mythos around them them writing 'orc' is comic sans on their forehead and then giving yourself a high five for how subversive you are.

Esquire is not a nobility title.

Grand and Arch Duke are actually very different things and it doesn't make sense for this titles to exist at the same time as both Duke and King.

Either the Grand Duke rules over a grand Duchy divided in a couple Dukedoms, or it's just a king.

Knight is also not a nobility title. One could argue that 'landed knight' is, but those are apples and oranges. Knight is as much as a nobility title as 'lady' or 'Shoemaker'.

And Finally; Viceroy is the stand in ruler for a king in a different kingdom (like vicepresident, roy means king in french.) Viceroy was often a title held by the Governor of all central america spanish colonies, for example. They were called the kingdom of New Spain, and the 'king' was the Viceroy of New Spain, under the King of Spain. In that sense, Viceroy would come above dukes and not where you placed on your scale because the viceroy may have Duke underneath him.

I hope I helped and have a good day user.

David Bowie, the Thin White Duke

I like using thanes, earls and kings for Dwarves.

>Do you ever subvert or reinforce this in your campaigns?

All fantasy races in my setting are close to extinct and hidden in wild corners of the world. Any hierarchy they have is known only to them, and any references to royalty by human-kind is only their word for it (like how most label Germany as such, but Germans call it Deutschland).

The basic unit of dwarf society is the clan, composed of a patriarch, his wife or wives, and all their non reproducing sons. All patriarchs are considered the equivalent of nobility, with the settlement founding clan's current patriarch being the settlements most prominant member, he may or may not have a title and be a de facto or de jure ruler depending on the culture or settlement size, when they do have titles it's usually Thane, High Father, Son of Urzan, or King.

Elves have a hundreds of ranks and titles throughout thier entire society.

Ogres usually call their leader by a unique ____ one title, like Great One, Iron One, Old one, wise one, and so on

But Orcs make the best Merchants.
youtube.com/watch?v=WSLBDkQ7o6k

man, oblivion was awful.

Why shouldn't orcs change and progress the same way any civilization would, why change the name if I am working with a Renaissance level world where orcs native lands were well suited to expand into the trading market and have good control over the routes? And which particular "master definition" are you working with that is immutable, there are a number that you could make an argument for so I am not even sure which of them is the end all and be all. Do all orcs have to only be tribal raiders, fit only to be the evil horde over the horizon?

>>No one knows who the fuck leads the gnomes
Y'know, I just realized I really like this idea now that someone said it

Though on the subject of the thread has it right with
>As a rule I avoid subversion for subversion's sake.
Work out their politics for how it their culture/economics, it doesn't have to be too detailed but just a basic idea of how they govern is fine, assign titles based on that

The elven elite in my setting are family patriarchs, the eldest of which are known as Grandmothers and Grandfathers. Elves separate themselves along broad strokes of subraces, based on individual habitat, but within their own race they separate into houses, similar to human nobility, but different in that every member of the family has the potential to live forever, so succession isn't really a thing unless someone is killed in battle (which doesn't happen often)

So, what you end up with is an organization of individuals who know their station at birth, and generally expect to maintain that same station for eternity, and while intrigue does exist, it's an exception to the rule, and such things rarely result bloodshed and usurpation, so much as a member of the house losing face and credibility, while their rival secures more weight of opinion within the family. Elves have long memories, but aren't prone to grudges or infighting.

That lack of inter-political ambition is what has allowed Humanity to shoulder further into their territory, as constant political ambition sharpens their wit over generations. The general fear is that, through sheer brute force generation after generation, Humans have had enough practice outwitting each other to begin outwitting the "superior" races.

>Orcish crusaders on a divine mission to retake their holy land (probably from Elves. Fuck Elves.)

I'm keeping this in my hat. We've got plenty of Orc Waaagh and the like. I wouldn't mind some Orc DEUS VULT

>>No one knows who the fuck leads the gnomes

Because no one ascribes a specific set of tropes to gnomes across all mediums. Diminutive forest folk? Absent-minded tinkerers? Sly merchant princes? It's not like orcs or elves or dwarves. Mention a gnome to three different people, and you'll get three different mental images.

In the last setting I ran that had mostly racially divided nations...
>Humans had all manner of ridiculous titles, the highest of which was Prince/Princess owing to the greatest of the various human-majority nations being successor states to a vast kingdom that fell to supernatural evil, each "founding" nation having been the domain of one of the children of the last King. With the capital lost and fingers pointed, nobody has been able to be crowned King/Queen since and they won't let their neighbors presume the title. (Grand or Arch) Duke/Duchess was another common sovereign title for later-founded nations
>Dwarves had an Emperor, who was owed fealty by Dukes, Counts, Barons, and a variety of non-hereditary territory managers, typically Mayors.
>One elven-majority nation had Councillors, the other had nominally equal Lords and Ladies. The difference was a coat of paint: they were both Oligarchies but one didn't want to publicly admit that seats on their ruling council were hereditary 99 times out of 100 and sort of halfheartedly shuffled them around between family members every few years.
>Halflings were gypsies, lacking their own land or any titled rulers
>Gnomes were second-class citizens in the Dwarven empire with a trifling population
>Orcs were extinct in known territories.

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