/5eg/ Fifth Edition General: "Necromancy a shit" edition

Even before Pathfinder went Full Furry, they were already showing signs of deviancy.
>skeleton king about to rape some knight chick with his tentacle tongue

>Even before Pathfinder went Full Furry,

What?

A GOO Tomelock w/BoAS

What should be the go-to ritual spells for such a build? I want a Find familiar, but i'm complete lost on a second.

Do you like fire? If so, it's okay.

I'd only allow Halflings and Gnomes to take it.

That's exactly the reason this is a problem.
'Once you have the spellcasting feature from more than one class...'

Nothing says you get the spellcasting feature at level 3. The way they wrote it does not tell you what level you get the spellcasting feature at or list it on the table. It just says somewhere you have spellcasting.
So we can only imply you get spellcasting right from the start, which fucks things over if you play a different partial caster. If you then play a dragonrider 1 / paladin3, you only get 1 level of spellcasting, whereas if dragonrider's spellcasting feature was specifically a level 3 feature, they'd have 2 levels of spellcasting.

It's very fucky, considering it's basically just a slightly nerfed fighter (the rider) and a beefed up fighetr (the dragon)

I could basically reconstruct this class by saying
'Okay, get a fighter, get rid of his extra ASIs, his action surge and he has to be an eldritch knight. Also he gets -1 hp/level, has less armour proficiencies so is probably going to be a dex fighter and for all of this he gets a big fucking dragon that might as well be an entire class and character in itself.'

Feels like it might've been better to have a fighter and give the fighter start with a baby dragon that grows oddly fast as he fights until he gets to use it later on.

>Most people see necromancers as menacing, or even villainous, due to the close association with death. Not all necromancers are evil, but the forces they manipulate are considered taboo by many societies.
Page 118, Player's Handbook.

Now can all of you faggots, especially the ones preening about how necromancy isn't evil, please shut the fuck up?

And then this guy walks in like this and stops everything.
Fucking rulebook wizards.

>especially the ones preening about how necromancy isn't evil
>Not all necromancers are evil
If Necromancy were evil, all necromancer would have to be evil.
But its kinda typical for this discussion for you losers to keep pretending you are somehow right even while actual text says you are wrong.

That doesn't count in the Forgotten Realms.

>Now can all of you faggots, especially the ones preening about how necromancy isn't evil, please shut the fuck up?
Except for how it says that necromancy is, in fact, not evil?
Are we at the stage where you point at things and randomly exclaim it proves your point despite not actually doing so?

I like the idea of a character who is blind to the advice of his/her peers using necromancy to try and resurrect the dead in a desperate attempt to undo an accident of a loved one, or thinking they are close to finding a solution to disease - perhaps misguided, but certainly not the malicious 'raise an undead army for world domination' trope.

PHB Page 212, Animate Dead has no [Evil] tag. End of discussion.
By RAW Necromancy isn't evil. Deal with it.
What you do in your personal setting is irrelevant to anyone else.

Isn't FR the default setting?

Neither does any spell in the game. Speaking of evil tags, can we talk about how 99% of undead in the Monster Manual, from a lowly zombie to a demilich, has evil alignment?

>Neither does any spell in the game.
Correct, because no spell in the game is inherently evil. You figured it out genius.

> Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil casters use such spells frequently.

B-b-b-but muh necromantic utopia!

Even if a spell was inherently evil, if a Paladin somehow was able to use it against an Evil foe, then the spell instantly becomes Lawful Good

This is not how logic works, idiot. Nowhere in the PHB rape has an [evil] tag. Sure, there are no [evil] tags in this edition at all, and rape isn't even mentioned anywhere, but surely it means that rape is okay. Because I said so.

>Utopia needs to be Good aligned
Not good=/= evil.
But keep trying.

NANI?

>This is not how logic works, idiot.
Clearly logic works by what you asserting being objectively correct despite there being nothing actually proving this.
Meanwhile outside of your butthurt delusions there are at least two instances discussing the moralitys of necromancy and neither of them call it a Evil act.

> only evil casters use such spells frequently
Clearly reading big quotes is too hard for you, so I'll try to keep it simple.

It's more salient to point out that there are no spell tags at all.

Are the Necrofags going to say
>durrr there's no [fire] descriptor on Fireball so it must shoot acid
SHUT UP LORE WIZARDS

Except that makes no statement about the morality of the spell and only of those who frequently employ it?
By that logic all killing is evil because only evil people do it frequently.

No spell in the game has a [Fire] tag. Therefore, no spell in the game is inherently fire-based.
No spell in the game has a [Cold] tag. Therefore, no spell in the game is inherently cold-based.
No spell in the game has a [Acid] tag. Therefore, no spell in the game is inherently acid-based.

No spell in the game has a fucking tag, you moron.

So we're still doing the "I point at random quotes and pretend they say what I want them to rather than what they do"?
Only evil people use it frequently in the default setting because in it its a taboo actand only evil people are likely to break taboos frequently.
If it were evil it would just say "Animating dead is evil". They didn't do that and clearly on purpose, its not a oversight its a deliberate point of 'not' calling it evil.

First of all, this is the dumbest thing I've heard from you yet, and this is quite an achievement. Second, even if your logic was correct, we would reach the conclusion that while necromancy is not evil, necromancers are.

Okay to you babies because you were probably not yet literate before 4e, but before Animate Dead HAD a evil tag, thats what he was referring to.

>Second, even if your logic was correct
The logic ISN'T correct I was poiinting out that this line of logic is dumb you autistic moron. Holy shit how can you be this retarded?

I have a bad case of the autisms and don't like any of the existing options for Artificers. Thoughts on this?

Otherworldly Patron- Arcane Creator
You have formed a pact with a powerful dood who knows how to construct stuff 'n sheeit. They might be a servant of a deity or other otherworldly being, a powerful artificer who's agreed to teach you some of their secrets in exchange for your loyalty, or perhaps your character stumbled across the research of a long deceased inventor or learned to construct things on their own through trial and error.

Spellz
1st - Catapult, Grease
2nd - Heat Metal, Find Traps
3rd - Lightning Bolt, Protection From Energy
4th - Fabricate, Stone Shape
5th - Animate Objects, Awaken

Arcane Creator- level 1 (Copypastad from Artificer)
blah blah stupid name here, it's probably a bad idea mechanically but makes more sense than CHA artificers.
When you choose this Patron at level 1 your spellcasting stat becomes Intelligence.
Tinkerer's Kit
You've created, or been given, a kit of useful tools.
You can use your action to go into your Tinkerer's Kit and find just the right tool. This tool can be no larger than 3 feet on a side and weigh no more than 10 pounds, and its form must be that of a nonmagical object that you have seen. The object is visibly magical, radiating dim light out to 5 feet.
The object disappears after 1 hour, when you use this feature again, or if it takes any damage (Using a tool for it's intended purpose does not cause damage, such as melting a lock with acid, however constructed tools cannot be used to make attack rolls on creatures).
Tool Expertise
Choose two types of tools. your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make with these tools.

(cont)

Whats the best monk, in your honest opinion?

(cont)

Arcane Creator- level 6
Superior Attunement
At 6th level, your superior understanding of magic items allows you to master their use. You can now attune to up to four, rather than three, magic items at a time. At 15th level, this limit increases to five magic items.
Crafted Armor
You gain proficiency with Medium Armor and gain a +1 to AC while wearing it, however must spend a short rest modifying it with arcane sigils or clockwork mechanisms before using it.

Arcane Creator- level 10
When you hit a construct with an attack, you deal additional force damage to it equal to your Warlock level.
Your understanding of magic items allows you to analyze and understand their secrets. You know the artificer spells Detect Magic and Identify, and you can cast them at will. You don’t need to provide a material component when casting identify with this class feature.
If you already know Detect Magic or Identify, or have the Eldritch Invocation: Eldritch Sight, you can instead learn 2 different level 1 spells, or can pick one different Invocation.

Arcane Creator- level 14

Starting at 14th level, you can use your arcane knowledge to bring Constructs under your control, even those created by others. As an action, you can choose one Construct that you can see within 5 feet of you. That creature must make a Charisma saving throw against your Warlock spell save DC. You have advantage on the check if the creature is Incapacitated. If it succeeds, you can't use this feature on it again until after a long rest and you take 5d10 Lightning damage. If it fails, it becomes friendly to you and obeys your commands until you use this feature again.

Intelligent Constructs are harder to control in this way. If the target has an Intelligence of 8 or higher, it has advantage on the saving throw. If it fails the saving throw and has an Intelligence of 12 or higher, it can repeat the saving throw at the end of every hour until it succeeds and breaks free.

>flying brooms are evil, because only evil witches use such items frequently

Define frequently. So many times a month? Is it a rare cultural thing? Why are you fools trying to label this kind of argument logic?

We know what he was referring to. It was a bad reference because nothing has a tag now.

This thread in a nutshell.

>but before Animate Dead HAD a evil tag, thats what he was referring to.
Yeah, and?

Except he was referring to page 212 in the PHB, where Animate Dead can be found.

The only PHB in which Animate Dead can be found on page 212 is the 5e PHB and we're in fucking /5eg/.

So no, he wasn't referring to anything else. He was referring to 5e's Animate Dead under the assumption that 5e still had tags for spell categories. In other words, he's a fucking moron.

If you use Awaken on something made with Animate Objects, does it remain "alive" even after Animate Objects ends?

Sophistry. Are you really that desperate?

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever inverse magic circle + planar binding the Abbot of krezek to force him to fight strahd with you?
A deva is really fucking useful in that fight.
Seems like the castle or amber temple would have the shiny gems required for the spells.

strawpoll.me/12360781
None of you will be changing your mind any time soon, so let's just settle this.

Strahd is a complete wuss, and bringing Abbot with you is akin to bringing a gun to a fist fight.

>Has anyone ever been a wizard
Yes
>Has anyone ever been a GOOD wizard?
Probably not.

Your quote very explicitly does not equate necromancy and evil, just the greater share of an undefined number of individuals using it.

Demonstrate some literacy before accusing me of sophistry.

It's 2017 you guys. Why haven't you made undead immune to radiant damage? They're literally neither good, nor evil.

>yfw it was just one person complaining necromancy is evil

Why would their alignment have any affect on resisting Radiant damage?

reminder that Paladins are just as weak to Radiant as skellingtons.

Hey! Leave Steve out of this, he deserves better.

...

What are you talking about? It's a perfectly even split. Between all options, actually.

>Immediately after I posted that it goes from 1 to 4 votes
>What are you saying? It's perfectly even.
Nice try, samefag. Not as if strawpoll isn't easy to manipulate.

It's a good thing you found a meme with all those words, making a real argument would have been REALLY HARD.

> Everything I don't like is rigged
Maybe the real problem was you replying literally two minutes after the poll was posted.

>conflating "necromancy" with "creating undead"
How did you fuckers ever make it through Wizard School

>okay /5eg/, is transmutation the school of pyromancy?
>but it's got a spell named "pyrotechnics" and plenty of fire damage spells!

Isn't it funny how necromancy fans and nazi defenders argue in the exact same way?

Spellcasters that key off con when?
Dexcasters when?
Musclewizards when?

I'm on the "fuck necromancy and necromancy people" side of the issue, but holy shit, you're dumb.

Not an argument. :^)

Doesn't all this necromancy crap follow Veeky Forums's golden rule?

Depends on the mother-fucking setting.

>Think I found something cool to do with Awaken and Animate Objects
>Realize I'm retarded and Awaken only works on Beasts and Plants

Neither is Godwin's law. There's not a single person alive on this planet, who hasn't been compared to a nazi or even literally Hitler at least once.

But we always default to Forgotten Realms.

I could reasonably see a bloodmage class keying off con. Vitality being the source of your magic and shit.

Well it's evil in the Forgotten Realms under 99% of circumstances. Always has been.

Even if one personally believes necromancers with Skeller Skwadz are evil, paladins and clerics of whatever alignment are not even 0.1% obligated to give them shit.

strawpoll.me/12360879
Time to settle this once and for all.

There's a board on this website that's dedicated to unironically defending nazis on a regular basis. And they argue in the exact same way. That is literally true and there's nothing your meme law can do about it.

Wow it sure is irrelevant moral concepts from defunct editions in here!

5e just reverted to the TSR era blurb on it.

Godwin's Law is meant to stop people from making ridiculous Nazi comparisons.
>people who like chocolate ice cream better than strawberry are literally Hitler
It's real different when you can take Nazi-related headlines from 1943 and swap all the nouns with current political groups and figures and you wind up with certain people going "hell yeah this is great news".

>Maybe if you get 3 or 4 short rests a day and you don't have any need to conserve your spell slots right until the end of the day for a boss fight or anything.
The 20 warlock does ~34.3 damage a round against AC 19 without smiting. He uses Hexblade's curse and attacks.

The warlock 3/valor bard 17 does 25.75 a round without smiting, but can bump that up to 38.175 for some time by casting magic weapon (+3). He casts Booming Blade and uses Battle Magic to attack again.

The warlock3/sorcerer 17 does 17.6 damage a round without smiting, but can boost that to 25.825 with magic weapon (+3) and double either with quicken. That's 35.2 or 51.65. He also casts booming blade.

They all need 20 Str with the Cursebringer Greatsword, and the warlock needs 20 charisma. Clearly it is the other caster that is hoping to save all their spell slots until the boss fight at the end of the day.

With 20 Cha, Eldritch Blast does 28.4 damage per round (so 56.8 quickened), or 44 damage per round for the Hexblade with their curse.

Wow, sophistry was a big word for somebody as bad at this as you seem to be. I'm impressed.

Alright, here I go.
>alignment
>negative energy
>positive energy
>negative/positive energy tied to alignment
>alignment/positive/negative energy tied to morality
>objective morality
>good
>evil
>beyond good and evil
>d&d
>gygax
>AD&D
>3.X
>PF
>4e
>Forgotten Realms

I think you quoted the wrong posts there silly.

You are not arguing with one person. I was the one who talked about sophistry.

Considering the other characters might not even need to use +3 magic weapons given their DM 'might' give them weapons at points (Which kinda invalidates warlocks' new weird 'make a magic +1/+2/+3 weapon' deal) it might cause the damages to balance out. Obviously DM depends on that.

I think the real tactic is to eldritch blast when you're not smiting. But that causes some invocation limitations.

Hmm..
Probably go for Oathbreaker11/Warlock3/(Sorcerer or bard)6 then. You get all the damage output, the improved smites and some extra spell slots.

how do I upgoat this?

Detect magic is popular. Alarm if you're paranoid. Identify if your DM makes you have to use it. Unseen Servant is amazing. There's too many to list them all by memory though. You'll always want more.

That would explain the drastic drop in quality, I suppose. Proceed with your infighting until you've got a better argument, then.

ohhh, its a mohrg

Do you guys all use the basic character sheet? I know 3.5/PFE had a bunch of alternate sheets and some of them looked pretty nice.

Not an argument.

Right now you have to summon cursebringer to be able to smite, so it's always a normal pact greatsword. You can't make any old +3 greatsword a cursebringer.

I also fucked up the warlock's damage. It's 42.3. I had dropped the extra stat's +5 when I put it in the calculator.

I can't disapprove of Oathbreaker, but you will probably find you lack spell slots with that.

What do you think of my latest retarded idea? I like the ability however I feel it's not really in a good place for the existing Artificer.

This is intended to replace the Artificer ability with something else, probably an ASI so if they want they can pick it up as normal (with slight buffs) or an appropriate Feat for their archetype, such as Sharpshooter for a Gunsmith.

If I do decide to go about this I'd probably make an entire new construct archetype probably based off the UA Beast Master.

Also I forgot to add- a prerequisite should probably be "proficiency with one appropriate type of Artisan's Tools matching the material you intend to use, Arcana, and Tinkerer's Tools."

Does that seem like overkill?

At least you can use the invocation to make it +3.

You know I just noticed, the reason the CR doesn't scale is probably because there is literally only one Large Beast greater than CR2, and it's the CR3 Giant Scorpion.

How about that. Feel free to disregard the CR bit I added then.

>beyond good and evil
Hey, it wasn't bad.

I use the basic sheet, but I don't use the rollled personality shit. I want a sheet with more inventory space.

I use an Excel sheet with multiple pages, and put whatever I need on them.

I use a spreadsheet, so I don't have to remake everything at each level up.

Yes, and the warlock does. Everyone else can just cast Magic Weapon on it.