What's your favorite element system in RPGs, and why?

I like the 5e one. It's classic, it's simple, it's flexible. Fire, Earth, Wind, Water, plus Positive and Negative Energy. What more do you need?

neat pic

I like them to interweave with each other culturally.

I've also been experimenting with multiple mutually exclusive element systems in the same setting, where people aren't completely sure which one is "right".

I haven't yet made a system that is "missing" an element, though. One that SEEMS symmetrical except for one or two outliers, and nobody's sure if that outlier element exists or if the world is just.....assymetrical.

Does 5e actually use Earth and Air, or is it just 3rd again where they're mentioned maybe 3 times the whole edition?

double post
Does 5e not have sonic damage? Did they actually take out a damage type?

>What's your favorite element system in RPGs, and why?
Yin/yang. Neither is good, neither is evil, and neither is superior to the other. Both just are.

What game?
Sounds more like an alternate to alignment then an element system.
Unless people can shoot yin or yang at eachother.

The only elements you need are Fire, Water, and Wood.

What are the differences between Agility, Speed, and Reflex?

Speed is raw velocity, how far in how little time.

Agility is precision. Minimizing movements to do the right job quickly and accurately.

Reflex is reaction time. Countering and Feinting relies more on subconscious action than deliberate movement.

Homebrew.
And, no, people can't "shoot" yin and yang at each other, but "dynamic" yin allows one to control motion, flow etc., while "static" yang allows one to change static properties of objects.

Basically, the yang practitioner can change the mass or quantity of an object, while the yin practitioner can impart motion or change directions of an object.

And, yeah, it's kind of like an alignment system inspired by actual yin/yang philosophy.

This thread is somewhat related; but basically I want to create a partially elemental inspired crafting system for a game involving sacred substances.

Any ideas to expand upon;
>Metal
>Dust
>Fire
>Water
>Spark
>Crystal
>Mist
>Figment

The idea behind these is for very rudimentary and alchemical crafting, not so much to be a easy model of a fantasy universe's inner workings. Any ideas?

is Air included in Mist?
glass blowing and shit, man

I don't know, maybe? Most people before the Renaissance probably didn't think of the elemental 'air' as a gas as we do, more like the phenomenon within the air. Like smells, fog, wind, lightning and so forth.

That's just my >opinion however.

>you can go all the way to 18!
I don't know about that, 6402373705728000 elements sounds like a lot to me.

I knew the Jews were behind it!

I's part of an all-wizard party in 2e. We're Elementalists, it's fun. Water, Earth, Fire, Air, and a Wild Mage, even though he's not technically an Elementalist. Water and Fire, then Air and Earth are opposing schools, and can't learn each other's spells. We cover each other, makes us feel like a team

reading comprehension is at an all-time low on this fucking board

Sonic has been translated into Thunder, which is kinda dumb honestly.

Although 5e doesn't have Earth and Air, if you're going by damage types.

It's a factorial user.

Sharing some I've toyed with

Fear
Community
Aggression
Compassion
Curiosity
Pleasure

Electricity, Gas, Steam, Coal, Fission, blood

I love those ones.

NAME IT

>Creation
>Being
>Destruction

Works really well.

Did you make that image yourself?

Wood, for handles
Glass
Quicksilver
Lode/magnet
Blood
Glue/Adhesive
Acid

Underrated post

No, it's from an MMO called secret world.

I really like it because the crafting is very simple and easy, and you use 4 basic materials (plus runes for special glyphs) to make all your tools. Weapons use metal, and then for your talisman (essentially trinket versions of armors) each element material has a different function.

Making a talisman out of dust provides healing power and a small amount of HP, Water provides a large amount of HP and a small amount of attack rating, and Fire provides a large amount of attack rating but a small amount of max HP.

>Suggestions
I don't like wood, glass, or glue because it's not really about the 'physical' components of the object that matter to me. I'm referring to like super base elements.

Glass could work if its meant to be like elemental glass though. Imagine a mystic blacksmith here, not an actual one.

>super base elements
I'm having trouble getting a feel for what you're asking, since crystals and mist don't really feel like base elements.

Rather are you looking for more elements, or more ways to define the elements you already have and how they interact?

I did a bad job explaining it.

Basically, I like the idea of little mystical trinkets and strange random 'clumps' of elements being used to create magical items, enchantments, or magic in some way. Imagine mountain fog, a glowing ember, mystic energies being used to create a magic sword or potion. Not actual metal or chemical reagents. Don't worry about it, I guess.

The part I didn't get was

>Any ideas to expand upon;
>Any ideas?

Expand upon the list, not the individual parts.

>What's your favorite element system in RPGs, and why?
My own, because it’s balanced and makes sense thematically, and ironically isn’t part of an Element dominated system, which I’ve grown tired of.
Also, because of an arrogant self-centeredness I suppose.

>Do you like them connected in circles or webs?
I definitely prefer the circle, but I can appreciate the web design as well.

>Do you like them independent of each other?
>Do you like the simplicity of pairs only?
I like each element having similarities to the elements on either side, with opposing traits one other element.

Btw, my system technically has 10 elements, but “elemental magic” isn’t really a thing and the elements are mostly metaphysical and associated with the original intelligent races, eight creator gods, and two new gods.

So, to be clear, you're looking for additional possible "sacred substances" for use in a crafting system?

yeah, but when you reduce all metals within a crafting system to just Metal....

you kinda lose out on all the chemical relationships.

Okay, how's this?
>Aether
>Dreams
>Time
>Salt
>Space
>Light
>Flesh
>Emotion
>Shadow
>Chaos/Distortion
>Lattice

D&D 3.5E elements are net for me.
Some druidic spell use earth but the damage are usually bash or bludgeon.

Sorcery elements like blood bone spirit are nice too.

>meh answer : Depends of setting

>Wind extinguishes Fire

My favorite of late is a homebrew I made. 4 Meta elements with an abstract theme consisting of Aero (change), Pyro (consumption), Aqua (replenishment), and Geo (stasis) (Air, Fire, Water, Earth, but those names can get confusing as you'll see). Each meta element has 3 subdivisions that relate to its theme.
>Aero
Wind
Lightning
Thunder (sonic)

>Pyro
Fire
Arid (erosion/time)
Bio (acids/poisons)

>Aqua
Steam
Water
Ice

>Geo
Earth
Plant
Metal

Everything in game deals with the sub-elements, so I really have 12 elements in use. Its been fun to mess around with, since even spell "shapes" are related to the elements. Any spell that's a cloud uses Steam as its shape, while Ice makes blocks and Plant makes pillars. I used to have a pretty interwoven relationship web between the sub-elements, but it ended up being unnecessary for the kind of games I would be running.

Are Star and Metal switched?

阳 is always superior.

Do you also summon planar beings as a group?

I once made an idea for a fantasy game where the primary source of powers came from people turning into "elementals" but the categorization was a bit unusual. Basically you had the 4 primary elements (Fire, Earth, Air, Water) but they represented the 3 states of matter and Energy. Along with this were the 3 untyped elements, Wood, Metal and Void.

Fire elementals embodied a form of energy. It could be Fire but it could also be Lightning or Kinetic Force or Light.

Water elementals embodied a liquid of some type. It could be different types of water (Sea Water, Ocean Water, River Water, Swamp Water) but it could also be Blood, Milk or Mercury even.

Earth elementals embodied anything that was solid. So you could have normal stone elementals but also shit like Gold, Steel, Plastic, etc.

Air elementals embodied gasses of various types. Oxygen, Hydrogen, Fog, etc.

Metal elementals embodied objects. Things like swords, boxes, desks, hammers, anything that's man-made.

Wood elementals embodied a living thing such as a plant or an animal.

Finally void elementals embodied or had dominion over concepts and ideas. Things that "exist" but are ephemeral like Love, War, Passion, Etc.

All of these would interact in the world in various classifications on top of one additional set of powers.

...

How about this one?

No. Very definitely not.

I'm curious what those elements are.

what I don't get is why star would be earth and fire, instead of air and fire

Independent is the only truly patrician option. Only the ape-like brain of an autist chooses to see patterns where there are none.

I came here to post that Planescape picture.

I don't get why star would ever be air and fire. It's like saying that the core of the earth should be treated as water elemental because its liquid.

that'd be earth fire

and the point that you're getting to....?

Absolute trash.
>Autistically overcomplicated
>Has 'Star' and 'Rime' as elements just to be different
>Implying using 'Rime' when you can just use Ice instead
>"Star" being an earth/fire elemental, as if ancient people knew fucking shit about what stars were besides just little dots in the sky
>Metal is the central element, and is also tied to the soul? The fuck?

Why would you even post that garbage here? Begone with you.

ones where the elemental system actually has an attribute other than a strength/weakness system

fire slowly burns you
ice slows you down
earth/metal is needed for weapons and armor
light can't hit shit except darkness
darkness fucks with everyone around

so you need to work on them for reasons other than "to fight this guy who is weak against it" also they have a certain use that makes just attacking them more efficient in some occasions than finding their elemental weakness

>overcomplicated
man, if you think THIS is complicated, we had some pretty complex webs in a previous thread way back when.

>when you can just use Ice instead
Ice has mass, and Cold....sounds bad. That's all I got.

>as if ancient people knew fucking shit about what stars were
the ancient people knew that when you make metal really, really hot, it starts to emit light. That's "star" enough for me.

Molten metal feels much more fitting as middle to Earth and Fire. Then Star could then be the soul and you could get all Lion King with it.

And find more synonyms for Rime, its too uncommon a word to be paired with the rest of them. Frost perhaps

it's kinda important to the setting that metal is soul. Souls aren't physically made of metal, but they are contained most easily in them.

Frost is....I'd been thinking about it, but Frost is also used to refer to the thin sheet of Ice covering stuff. Well, more that I left the naming issue in the backburner.

I mean, Frost is a full synonym of Rime so it shouldn't be an issue.

Going back to your first post and noticing you're thinking about multiple mutually exclusive combinations, one of those could swap Metal and Star to provide a strong reason to have those differing thought paths to begin with. You'd have your version of the Greek 4 elements and the Chinese 5. Mostly the same, but with a small but significant difference between them.

>removing energy from metal makes salt
>removing "focus" from metal makes "rime"
>salt turns to water when fluid
>fire and earth make star

Awful.

I might just go with Chill.

Swapping Metal and Star in one system works. I should make another change somewhere else, too. They're all still too similar.

Not that user, but I played a (homebrew-ish) game where our setting had three kinds of magic, though it wasn't like a strong-against/weak-against thing distinction. They were Harmonic (the vaguely-but-not-really holy), Chaotic (the vaguely-but-not-really demonic and wild), and Arcane (everything worldly and intelligent).

>Solid, liquid, gas, plasma
Earth, Water, Air, Fire is basically that already.

I mostly use the whole elemental shtick for fey in my game; they represent aspects of *human* nature, and have elemental powers depending on which humours their one-track personalities come closest to.

This brings up a different question,
How many non-weapon damage types is 'enough'?
For example, 3rd edition D&D has 6: Fire, Elec, Cold, Acid, Sonic, and Force
Sonic was almost never resisted and was the go-to, and Force was almost never mentioned outside the handful of spells that used it.
Fucktons of spells and effects totally ignored it and did typeless damage, which could not be resisted, and most players just took those.
I honestly need to say again just how many did typeless damage, because it was unbelievable.
(minor note, there was positive energy source and negative energy source, which were not true damage types, and you could be totally immune with a cheap ring, so nothing more needs to be said about them)

4e tried to fix this, adding Radiant, Necrotic, and Psychic damage types, and giving more creatures several resistance types, but I guess it just didn't take.

The problem is that you could call a damage type 2g97ruehbkiwsfdhvbkj and it would still be the same as fire or electric. They're all mechanically identical.

Fantasycraft has actual rules for the damage types, which I feel is needed more than the damage types themselves.

Can you give an overview of those rules?

Yeah, that's why 3.5 psions got a little extra when they picked an element.
Fire & Ice dealt more damage
Elec gave a save penalty
Sonic dealt a little less damage, but ignored item hardness
It was a neat little bit

I always liked the new World of darkness' conceptual elements.

What are they, and what is a conceptual element?

Check out my autistic little write up when I was thinking about how each element should be used as a 'style' but branched out a little further.
It's shit I know.

Fire= Dual weapon(dual axe-overwhelming)
Air=Single Hand Weapon(curved sword-Single precise strikes)
Earth=2 handed weapon(Hammer- Singular powerful strikes, patient style)
Water= Weapon+Shield(sword and shield-Defensive)

Fire= strong spiritual connection/commune with spirits/extra damage to spirits
Air=present sight(slight sixth sense for danger)
Earth=past sight(Memory/past insight)
Water=future sight(prediction/future scrying)

Fire(anaerobic str) beats air
Air(Aerobic str) beats earth
Earth(Constition/will) beats water
Water(Flexibility) beats fire

Synergist
fire(Major)+air=explosion/lightning" by focusing explosive power in hands, then direct force outward becomes elemental devoid mana/chi but very tiring and can backfire if lose control or interrupted
Air(Major)+Earth=Sand control/Sand Dervish creation(limited lifespan)
Earth(Major)+water=Mud control/Basic golem creation/Wood
Water(major)+Fire=Steam/smoke manipulation, minor illusion magic

opposite combination
Fire+Earth= Magma
Air+Water= Ice/Mirror

>I'm curious what those elements are.
Well, honestly the list is not that impressively unique as I started with the basics and slowly expanded and filled them out. The circle goes:
WIND – SMOKE – FIRE – MAGMA – STONE – EARTH – WATER – ICE –
Fire opposes Water and Wind opposes Stone.
Earth opposes Smoke and when combined created Wood.
Magma opposes Ice and when combined created Metal.
Wood opposes Metal.
The elements are based on driving themes and forces in the universe, which are based on the 8 creator gods that forged them. The gods were named by their mortal races and were never literally Fire or whatnot, just that those seemed most appropriate to the mortal minds.
(So fire did not exist before there was something to burn, etc)
Each element embodies an element of the world and has a positive and negative aspect and is mirrored by an opposite force.
As I said, elemental magic isn’t really a thing too much in the setting, I just use these themes to support forces and magic. As example, magic can be divided into 8 sources that either flourishes (Wood) or diminishes (Metal).

I still don’t like Magma as a name, but I am having trouble finding a better fit.

I've always liked the five element variations of though I'm not a big fan of Metal>Fire>Wood>Earth>Water

And I've been trying to work out a system for FIRE>WIND>LIGHTNING>EARTH>WATER

My only issue I keep having is what happens when you mix elements in a similar fashion to what happens when you mix with the traditional four elements like this

Fire
F+A-Poison
F+L-Radiation
F+E-Magma
F+W-Steam

Air
A+F-Poison
A+L-Light
A+E-Sand
A+W-Ice

Lightning
L+F-Radiation
L+A-Light
L+E-Gravity
L+W-Acid

Earth
E+F-Magma
E+A-Sand
E+L-Gravity
E+W-Wood

Water
W+F-Steam
W+A-Ice
W+L-Acid
W+E-Wood

Solidity/attraction
Heat
Motion
Expansion/repulsion

I'd like to try doing something with this some day.

Fun Fact: Metal>Fire>Wood>Earth>Water are the five more active elements in my system.
The thing with an odd number of elements is that there can't be directly opposing elements.

As for your elements, I find that the trick is to identify aspect of each element and then marry them so they make sense:

>Fire = Burning
>F+A-Poison = Blowing Burning?
I don’t know about this one
>F+L-Radiation = Burning Energy?
Sounds legit
>F+E-Magma = Burning Stone
Literally
>F+W-Steam = Burning Vapor
Literally

>Air = Blowing
>A+F-Poison = Blowing Burning?
I don’t know about this one
>A+L-Light = Blowing Energy?
Sounds legit
>A+E-Sand = Blowing Stone (Sandstorm)
Literally
>A+W-Ice = Blowing Vapor?
Sounds legit

>Lightning = Energy
>L+F-Radiation = Burning Energy?
Sounds legit
>L+A-Light = Blowing Energy?
Sounds legit
>L+E-Gravity = Energized Stone?
Sounds legitimately accurate
>L+W-Acid = Energized Vapor?
Sounds legit

>Earth = Stone?
Not sure but fits
>E+F-Magma = Burning Stone
Literally
>E+A-Sand = Blowing Stone (Sandstorm)
Literally
>E+L-Gravity = Energized Stone?
Sounds legitimately accurate
>E+W-Wood = Stone Vapor?
No, but Wood makes sense. Might need fiddling

>Water = Vapor
>W+F-Steam = Burning Vapor
Literally
>W+A-Ice = Blowing Vapor?
Sounds legit
>W+L-Acid = Energized Vapor?
Sounds legit
>W+E-Wood = Stone Vapor?
No, but Wood makes sense. Might need fiddling

If you change an aspect, make sure to change it across the board so it all makes sense.
Wood works, but is hard to describe as it is, but makes sense for Stone as “Firmament”.
Posion is a decent element and good to work in, but I had a hard time attaching it to Air, aside from blow darts.

Miasma is generally referred to as "ill air", or otherwise Air that is painful. Fevers have been associated with heat entering the body.

It's the gravity I find weird

Ah, so Feverish Miasma?
I can dig it.

Lightning is literally energy.
Gravity is literally the inherent, potential energy of earth.
An alternative to Gravity could be Sonic or Seismic vibration.

>Primary Elemental Planes (Self-explanatory)
Air (Wet/Hot)
Earth (Dry/Cold)
Fire (Dry/Hot)
Water (Wet/Cold)
>Secondary Elemental Planes
Dust (Dry) Endless deserts of scouring sand stolen from Earth, and ash falling from Fire. It's flowing sands are forever pushing towards Vacuum, always failing to fill its void.
Ice (Cold) A vast frozen plane of ice and snow, its blizzards stopping Water's tides and freezing Earth solid.
Lightning (Wet) An immense crackling storm cloud, pouring down rain and lightning. It pelts Water's surface and angers Air's clouds.
Smoke (Hot) Wafting up from Fire's inferno, climbing ever higher on Airs winds. It is always encroaching on Air yet unable to withstand its tempest, and abandoned by Fire to the skies.
>Tertiary Elemental Planes
Ooze (Neutral) An endless swell of the elements, of mud and goo, a maelstrom of viscosity. The alchemists element, there is nothing one cannot form from the Ooze of the elements.
Radiance (Positive) Beyond the dark clouds of Lightning is the endless Radiance of light, a blinding domain wafting down from the essence of life itself.
Vacuum (Negative) Beyond the cascading falls of sand into nothingness is a place devoid of all things. An empty void with one exit, unless your goal is beyond nothing. It's Vacuum is the only barrier keeping Negative from consuming all things.
>Energy Planes
Negative A plane of nothingness, yet filled with something. The antithesis of life, it does not create, but consume. And all things that enter find themselves with their life draining away. Nothing but the Negative can totally and utterly destroy the soul.
Positive A plane of blinding radiance, and so much more. It is the font of life, the forge of souls. Be wary, however, it is an overbearing domain and will always desire it's children stolen from it by the Gods and trapped within flesh.

Cont.

Lightning is energy in motion, just as Fire is energy released, or vibrations.

It'd make more sense if it was magnetism rather than gravity.

>Philosophical Elemental Planes
Aether/Quintessence The theorized substance of the gods. It is what forms many celestial substances, such as Phlogiston when mixed with Fire or the Aetheric Sea when mixed with Water. Aether is seemingly unrelated to the other 'Metallic' Philosophical Elements.
Coal (Transference) The process of the reaction, the moving from one form to another. It is Dry, and fleeting, it is gone almost as soon as it arrives.
Mercury (Cohesion/Volatility) The substance reacting and the substance once it has reacted. It is Wet, but also Solid and Insubstantial. It is the ability to take forms.
Salt (Solidity) What remains after the reaction. It is Cold, and after all is said and done, there will still be Salt.
Sulpher (Combustibility) The reaction and ability to react. It is Hot, and explosive quality always waiting for it's moment.
Imagine a burning log. Before it has even begun burning it represents two of the Metallic Principles, Mercury (Cohesion) and Sulpher (Combustability) for it is whole and can react. When it burns it is Sulpher (Combustability) that causes it to, creating Mercury (Volatility) and Salt (Solidity), the smoke that escapes and the ashes left behind. Coal (Transference) was the process by which the transformation occurred, it is never present during the beginning nor after the end, for it never existed until the object began its Transference.
While the Philosophical Elements have been shown to manifest in the Physical Plane, they have never been reached and it is believed that they cannot be reached. For they have no elementalists, and those that cast under the names of the Metallic Principles merely follow the ideas of the processes. There are no 'Aether Elementalists', for it is understood that a mortal cannot control the gods. As one can merely pass through the Phlogiston or the Aetheric Sea, so too is a Magic-User unable to manipulate Aether. The closest is a Theurgist, who serve as a vessel and extension the gods.

Well, literally everything is energy.

We could go that route:

Fire = Energy Released
Air = Energy Disapated
Lightning = Energy in Motion
Earth = Energy Condensed
Water = Energy Fluid

Or something.
The idea is to know what the Aspect of the Element you want to express is, and make the marriages based off that.

This is well thought out and a good design.
I even agree with Lightening being wetter than Water, which seemed wrong at first.
Does it have much utility?

Utility?
As to what you mean by that I'm not sure, but I designed it to fit with a somewhat non-traditional approach to settings/games. It has been put into basically all of my settings since making it (other than settings with different cosmologies).
Magic in my worlds is one force, there is nothing distinguishing arcane or divine spells, it is all magic whether or not gods grant it or you learn it. There are four Arts of magic, Dimensionalism, Elementalism, Mentalism, and Occultism. Spells have no levels, only effects. So there is no need to have diminutive versions of spells, meaning that all the elements get a similar number of spells without worrying about level scaling.
I think these elements effectively give me all I want out of the elements. There are obvious applications of each element, and instead of focusing on the element I can also make spells based on the qualities (hot, dry, cold, and wet). It's designed with inspiration from the Classical Elements and Planescape without redundant elements, and with the elements placed where I thought they actually should go.
All in all I think it has utility, at least in my interpretation of utility. Hope this is a good response.

>Hope this is a good response.
Definitely.
I was mainly asking if it was just a clever part of the setting or if it served an active role in playing the game, which it does through spell design.

Glad I was able to answer your question by going over all of my interpretations of utility.

>utility

How the hell would this work in a game? I'm not familiar with asian themed settings, but I doubt they have this much depth.

martial arts themed ones use them i think. Defensive, offensive, evasive, etc

That's cool as shit, though

>wind extinguishes fire
>what is a bellows

>tfw you go to blow out the candles and burn the house down, instead

Earth, Fire, Water, Air, and Void
OR Earth, Fire, Water, Metal, and Wood

I've never been a fan of Metal element, not sure why.
Maybe I feel it steps on the toes of people wielding weapons, as opposed to elemental magics.

Lookin' at it the wrong way, mate.

>What sort of Elemental Magic do you cast?
>I cast Metal.

yeah, but then should everything be an element?
I don't want Meat

My metal "element" isn't actually metalbending, but the binding of souls into the most appropriate vessel: metal.

So you COULD go thousand-fold katana with the spirit of your master.....or you could just make a golem.