Stat me, Veeky Forums

It's because he knows it doesn't matter, since it'll all be reset at the end

It's only when he's faced with the end of the world that he does something. Trying to stop you is the only choice he can make that matters.

Having stats misses the point. He wins by cheating and metagaming, not having a big fat statblock.

Kinda curious to see what cheating bullshit he could do in other mediums though

Any metagaming he would do is determined by the DM, who is metagaming anyways and would just be more open about it.

Not even meta gaming. Sans can attack you in the game menu, which is the actual game medium itself. Something equivalent would be like the DM booby trapping the game map by drilling holes in the table your mini can fall through, or treating the dice he rolls as actual attacks if he manages to hit your model with them

>tfw no DM would ever do this

>To defeat Sans, you must defeat your GM in a fist fight

When a die knocks over your mini, many DMs joke that this kills your character... Few would make it happen.

Sans' sheet though would specifically say that after X turns have passed, this counts as a successful hit.

The thing that Sans did is that he knew of the existence of the person controlling the MC, and he attacked them specifically. Not to mention he operated on a meta knowledge that would overcome general stats.

I think, for a start, if you're playing with real life players you take away their refreshments. Any beer or chips or anything, take it away, all of it.

Flowey is too over the top, his story is too contrived, his change is way too sudden and comes out of nowhere. Although I admit that Photoshop Flowey was fucking cool.

I see messages about attacking the GM in real life so often, I wonder if anyone's ever done that.

>DM: "Alright everyone, roll for initiative"
>Cleric: "Nice, 21"
>Rouge: "25"
>Fighter: "19 here"
>Wizard: "Nat 20!"
>GM:"Alright, now it's time for Sans turn"
>Fighter:"Wait, his turn or his initiative?"
>GM: "Yes"

Then he lifts this thing out from under the table

1 HP. 1 Attack.
But you can never hit him, and he's just as liable to damage you by breaking the components of the game themselves. Your character sheet just had a corner snipped off; you forget the first half of your name; it's been erased from history. A random white-out or ink blotch on your sheet; you've lost most of the languages and tools you knew how to use, as well as your weapon. Your speed drops from 30 to 3. Better hope that doesn't happen to erase your HP or ability scores.
Oh, and the only way to actually hit and defeat it is to destroy the mini.

It seems like other characters were aware of and able to mess with the interface (asgore, flowey). Sans probably wasn't aware of the player, simply of the interface.

stat me Veeky Forums

HP: 0
DETERMINATION: 0
Inventory: Your Soul
Kills: 99999999999...
etc. I mean, it's an edgy kid who was willing to lie to their adopted family and kill themselves, attempt to enslave their brother to kill all humans, get them both killed, and then potentially be reanimated by your DETERMINATION to murder every creature in sight, and thus be given the power to destroy and even recreate the entire universe it lived in.
What did you expect?

Sans is one of the few characters that literally talks to (You), I doubt the interface is all he knows about the game in: Game where every literally every part of the game is treated as an actual part of the game's world: the game.

...

You are right about game mechanics being parts of the game's world but even Sans is not aware of the player, he thinks the MC is a temporal anomaly and that resets are time travels.
His knowledge is vastly overestimated by most fans.

Not really.

I think the whole reveal to flowy's character was supposed to be an a-ha moment. the lab reports talk about his dust/ashes being spread over the flower bed, and Alphys injected one of the flowers from that bed with extracted determination, hence his powers. Whether or not it was effective at being that "a-ha" moment is up for debate.

Still better than a "theory" about giving the Pope the game

You are right. But Undertale is kinda the best game you can give a pope. Since you can play it full pacifist.

And besides, that assumes he's been around long enough to meet the other children.

The pope doesn't even know how to use a computer

I'm just going to assume that's not a serious response.

Don't be stupid, he's not a caveman.

Sans and Papyrus are shards of Dr Gaster.

Spaghetti: [x] REGRETTI
Pizza: [x] PASTA

This thread gave me cancer.

Gaster is a space whale?

More like a worm to be honest.

Makes as much sense as anything else.

He's religious.

...

I don't see how it was sudden. The Genocide route makes it pretty clear that Flowey spent literally years of time breaking down the entire game into absolutely nothing beyond its code. He felt nothing for others because he knew they discovered they had no feelings that weren't pre-programmed into them.

Not him, but it still always felt weird to me that Flowey's default state was 'dickhead psycho' every time you meet him. You'd have thought if he was such a nice guy initially he'd at least be curious when he first meets this new character, instead of just trying to shank them.

Cthulhu devours 1d4 investigators per turn

...

Cthulhu is a bitchnigga

Do remember that there is animosity between humans and monsters to where pretty much the entire cast has it in for you one way or another.

Not even boss characters, but random NPC's - if you do a Genocide run, one of the only people you CAN'T kill are shopkeepers (because there's no combat interface in their zones) and the old turtle archaeologist explicitly says he's staying in this zone because you can't murder him in this mode.

Though a number of other random NPC's don't even understand they are killing you in 'battles'. they are just doing random stuff that happens to damage you.

Undertale and SU are both shit, but I gotta admit, a chuckle did escape me there, bro.

...

I don't really see flowey or asriel as the type to swing that way tbqh.

>not aware of the player
I know it's ambiguous, but imho its given away by "on days like this, kids like (you) should be burning in hell" - that whole speech was seriously 4th-wall-bending

Well too bad, the thread is now a discussion on what would happen if Steven Universe had fallen into the Underworld instead of the PC from Undertale

Wouldn't that just result in a regular pacifist run but with even more crying?

Well beyond being emphatic Steven is half-human/half-magical alien with superpowers, thats gonna alter the situation a little.

If his dad was the one that ended up there instead the major difference is that all the monstergirls would be after him for some of that murdercock

By that point, he'd fallen into total despair due to boredom of seeing everything happen over and over and over, and his default state was 'dickhead psycho' to everyone.

On another note, I remember playing the demo and thinking, "wow this little shit is going to be one of the worst villains in history isn't he?"

I was right. I STILL felt sorry for him, despite his villainy being his own choice.

It's literally just a pacifist run but if Frisk had magic healing powers and shield powers. And it's outright stated that at one point, humans could use magic too, or at least some of them, so...

As says, the monsters would just assume he's a human capable of magic, and besides Alphys none of the monsters would really understand or care if he told them otherwise.

...

...

>Name

He only lifts a finger to stop you when you have literally psychopath'd your way to the end of reality. ONLY when everything is about to outright stop, does he make a move to prevent that from happening, because he just doesn't really care that much.

I took away my gm's laptop and deleted a statblock once because i was tored of the fight.

Turns out that was the plan from the start.

I thought its explictely mentioned that, as flowey, he has no soul.

He KNOWS everything that he used to, but he's physically incapable of any empathy.

He has no states, but stuff gets scribbled on the CE player's sheet each time he acts more and more dickish till the PC. Eventually his name is replaced and boom, IT's me.

It vaguely irks me that half the point of the genocide run was to reference 100% completion and doing things in games just to experience everything, but fanwork always just goes with "lol psycho killer."

I'm of the opinion that Frisk falling to the same "it always happens the same way, but what happens if I do THIS?" trap that got Flowey is more interesting. Genocide isn't a separate run from pacifist and neutral, it's a complement to them. It's the thing you do either once you've exhausted all other content or just want to shake things up. Everyone's treating Frisk like the murderous abomination he is, but his real motivation is way colder. He just wants to see how the world reacts, he's curious about what else the game has to offer, not knowing it'll corrupt Chara.

Eh, just my two cents.

>ONLY when everything is about to outright stop, does he make a move to prevent that from happening, because he just doesn't really care that much.

It seemed more like complacence than apathy. In just about all of the neutral runs he expresses genuine feelings about the monsters who die, especially his brother. In his fight, he even expresses regret for not stopping the player before. It's clearly not in his nature to just kill people who might be a threat.

Toriel texts him to help Frisk near the beginning of each game. That would make it emotionally very difficult for Sans to curbstomp Frisk right out of the gate, even if he thought it was a good idea.

Also one of his main traits is being really lazy. Or at least appearing to be. Plus it's not like the underground doesn't have defenders. Even in a genocide run it wasn't formally his job to stop Frisk anyway, there was always someone else to do it.

It's because he knows that none of that means a damn thing. He's going through the motions. He knows that you're just gonna reset reality and none of it is going to matter.

Until you run out of reality to reset and he has to act to stop you from wiping everything out completely.

Flowey feels regret for what happened to him and chara as a result of his unwillingness to kill, and he doubled down on chara hero worship. This is very explicit in the true ending. The last thing he did was fail chara by not killing a human. Of course he took the first chance to make that up. Pl

Genocide would be a lot better if it wasn't such a slog to play and devoid of artistic merit.

It'd be way better if it had more than two actual battles in the whole run.

So why'd the war begin in the first place? Did the humans shoot first after finding out what would happen if one monster got ahold of seven babies and offed them? Did the monsters shoot first after figuring out that a human child can kill them with a twig just by HATING them enough?

>Itd be better if it wasn't unpleasant according to design in order to make you feel the right things
>It'd be better if the themes of the game didn't apply

Sure senpai

>So why'd the war begin in the first place?

Also, the seven humans were after the war. They fell into Mount Ebott just like Frisk, and presumably went along the same path. The monsters didn't take any human souls during the war, and I don't believe there's any official lore for pre-war monster/human relations.

well the monsters attack you first in the game

they were probably a bunch of nigs on the outside too

Frisk as a Changeling: The Lost changeling
Flowey as a True Fae
The game is his Durance
Now stat Frisk.

The monsters were weird-looking and lived on land that humans wanted. That's usually about all we've needed to make war on each other, let alone things that aren't humans.

They were generally reluctant to fight Frisk despite being under orders from Asgore, who made that order (to take the souls of anyone who falls in) in part because he was furious over losing both his children and didn't see another good way to give his people hope. He regretted that decision and didn't want anyone to die. That's also why Toriel left him, because he made that order.

As Toriel points out, Asgore could have just used Chara's soul to walk out of the underground, kill some people for their souls, and come back to break the barrier. He refused to do that and kept the monsters in the underground precisely because he couldn't bring himself to go outside and kill people.

Part of the reason why monsters suck at fighting humans so much is because they're generally unwilling to kill. Also because they're made of magic, which is allegedly weaker than water. But that's another story. A book in the snowden library implies that human souls are overall more willing to kill because they don't need love, hope, and compassion to exist like monsters do.

When they'd supposedly been living entirely in peace beforehand? Please.

That's like suddenly turning against the one friend you have left from kindergarten for reasons neither of you even know.

Humans make war on /strangers/, who they are physically incapable of truly seeing as human like themselves and those they know.

From the wiki:

>A monster with a human SOUL...
>* A horrible beast with unfathomable power.
>* The humans, afraid of our power, declared war on us.
>* They attacked suddenly, and without mercy." - Ancient Glyphs in Waterfall

undertale.wikia.com/wiki/The_War_of_Humans_and_Monsters

So that seems to come down to "they haven't done that yet, but it's not impossible that one might someday," which paves the way to war based on "I can't take that risk."

One of my favorite things about Chara is that, while they're a power gamer, the PLAYER is Flowey, doing the 100% completion stuff. Chara is even a bit confused about it if you do multiple genocides

Technically, most monsters aren't intending to attack Frisk. The books in the library show that a mosnters magic bullets are a way of expressing themselves, to the point where they'll fill birthday cards with them. Anyone that isn't in the Royal Guard (And even then, I think most of the dog ones were just being dogs) was just saying hello to you.

You can see this when you fight Vulkin. All they want is hugs and they get upset when they realize they keep burning you, and try to heal you with more fire.

CHA and DEX at 24, everything else is irrelevant

Why are you guys debating this, the game tells us the humans attacked because they were afraid of the potential of a monster with a human soul.

I don't think you know what Changeling is.

>Now stat Frisk
"Frisk"

LV 1
HP 20/20
AT 0 (0)
DF 0 (0)
EXP 0
NEXT: 10

WEAPON: Stick
ARMOR: Bandage
GOLD: 0

It should've used the battle system from Resident Evil Gaiden, but retuned for a turn-based system.

That could had easily been fabricated since monsters would only want to see that way.

It still a game user. Video Games were meant to be fun.

Reducing boss battles to single cinematic hits that drain them of all their health removes the impact from those moments. It was abrupt the first time it happened but by the third boss it just meant that I don't actually get to truly embody the monster I have become.

finally, someone who gets it

dex/char focus
knife master scout
halfling with childlike and reactionary
bluff + initiative feats for betrayal
feats and whatever items you can loot for movement
knifes + Weapon Versatility + sap master = 20d8 sneak attack at level 20 per attack
i am death,
now...

Ẃ̡̲͓̥͍͈͉̘̝̜̩̣̬̪͜͠Ḩ̴̢̝̰͈͚̻̬̯̰̼̝̫̰̗̮͔̕͞Ẹ̵̷̢̦̱̠͕̣̺̙͉̹̥͟R̶̹͓̥̭̜͍̮̜̖̳ͅḚ̡̢̛̰͓̗͚̱̞͕͖̹̕ ̧̥͕̫͇͓̝̰̗͈͇̞̖̕A̳̩̠̘̳̮̦̩͕̭͜͞R̴̹͍̤̥͖̗̰̣͚̲̜̬̟͔͚̀́͡E̸͕̖͖̺̘̖͚͍̖̟͕͈̯͍̣̞̦͡ ̸̩̻̱̻͜͢͝T̨̹̺͎̗͘H̢̢͈̩̟̯̜̳͎͖̹̻̮̲̹̟̦̩́͟E̗̝̬̝͠ ̛͉̩̹̯̰͖̺͎͈͕͔͢͡ͅK̷̛͇͈̰̖̕͟ͅͅN͔̥̞̻͈̥͉͎͍̦̪͙̩̠͘͡ͅI̶̢̡͙̘̳̲̘͕̞͇V̵͖̜̭̞͚̰̩̤̜̯̙̙̜̖̤́͢É̶̢͇͖̮̟̩͓̺̮̣̟̮͇̜̮̼̀͘Ş̴̠̪̬̣͉͕̘̮̥̗̙̳͘͠?

*You think you are above consiquences, don't you?

*Greetings idiot
take a level in spiritualist, then build any other character.
this. sans is aware of the player to some extent but only as the anomaly. they don't remember resets so much as they have incredible attention to detail

i was powergamering based on murderhobo chara. its wrong and is not what chara was pre-death, but it appeals to my inner edgelord. spiritualist is actually more accurate, damn the idiots who think charrator is fannon.

its the players actions that turns chara into a demon at the end of geno. also chara and flowey are the only characters that talks directly to the player at one point and is aware of them. but i wonder if its because both only do so after gaining as much power as they did in both endings and became self aware.