/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

That sucks even more. Hope you get better luck in the future

Mages have Pashupatta Astra / Knife of Ixion, and Werewolves have the First Klaive; Do Vampires, Demons, etc have similar uber-artifacts? If yes, what are they?

Direct but effective zealot.

Street Urchin scrapping by

so mages can kill the universe by just willing it to happen.

I'm starting to think that the ascension devs were massive trolls.

Good thing they put it down like old yeller
youtube.com/watch?v=h6V98Vd9fi4

Nosferatu psychologist in VtR. Curse displayed as a stench of rot with he covered by smoking cheapest stinkiest cigarettes all the time.

What exactly did they put down?

>so vampires can kill all life on the planet just by willing it to happen

>i'm starting to think that the masquerade devs were massive trolls

Big difference between planet and universe.

They can't do shit because metaplot anyway

The same could be said of Caine and the Antediluvians.

Not really. Once you pass a certain threshold all bullshit starts to smell the same. Archmasters and Antediluvians are both beyond that threshold.

Well yes. No one can do anything in the world of metaplot

I wouldn't say that. Even the plot device Disciplines weren't that impressive in scale compared to 7 - 9 dot Spheres. 10 dots is flat out 'anything goes'

These abilities were not written with balance In mind, remember.

I'm not saying they're equal. Just both in the same field of bullshit.

Question; so it used to be that the 12th and 13th generations were thinbloods, right? About 100 years ago? With all the shit that implies. But now it's the 14th and 15th, and the 12th and 13th are full vamps, albeit the youngest and weakest. Does that mean that 1000 years from now, assuming Gehenna doesn't happen, the thinbloods will be the 16th and 17th?

Is the blood of Caine thickening? And if so, are the Elders also growing stronger? Could the Antedeluvians once have been no stronger than a 13th gen? And if so, how strong will they be a thousand years from now? And how strong will the methuselahs of the 4th and 5th gen be?

whoops. should be "about 1000 years ago?"

I'd assume "thinblood" is a term Vamps have been using to describe the weakest of their kin for quite a while now.

It's only more recently they've actually been seeing it get so diltued that the Kindred aren't just weaker, they're "different".

See, that's the thing- the 13th Generation aka Thin Blood flaw in Dark Ages Vampire makes using disciplines harder- and players are strongly advised to also take the Cannot Embrace or Weak Blood flaw (weak blood is cannot embrace+ no disciplines past 4, and they're harder to boot).

Now, that's not the same weakness 14th and 15th vamps have- but arguably it's worse.

Also I was wrong about 12th gens being thinblood, it was 13th only. Most elders didn't even believe 13th thinbloods could embrace.

How much time passed between 5th and 6th generation? If that was true 6th generations would already join others as methuselahs

Are the following Athletics or Expression?

Gymnastics
Ballet
Figure Skating?

>These abilities were not written with balance In mind, remember.

I love how opp tend to excuse themselves with this reasoning like its a good thing.

Is like saying "self inflicted brain damaged but proud"

They're Athletics
Movement Form, endurance

Expression are more things like instrumental or singing. Speech giving is one of the examples of Expression. I think debate is also expression

>I think debate is also expression
That's debatable.

>Question; so it used to be that the 12th and 13th generations were thinbloods, right? About 100 years ago?

More like a few hundred years ago, but yes.

>But now it's the 14th and 15th, and the 12th and 13th are full vamps, albeit the youngest and weakest. Does that mean that 1000 years from now, assuming Gehenna doesn't happen, the thinbloods will be the 16th and 17th?

The upcoming V20 book, "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" actually touches on this issue. It also introduces the 16th generation of vampires, which was created in the last couple of years in the V20 timeline.

>Is the blood of Caine thickening?

Yes, it is.

Beckett discovers, among other things, that some thinbloods have begun to develop clan characteristics. One thinblood suddenly ended up losing his shadow, showing that he'd spontaneously re-connected with his Lasombra heritage, and that sort of stuff.

>And if so, are the Elders also growing stronger?

Again, yes.

In the book, Beckett travels to Africa to meet with the Laibon, and there they reveal that the thickening of blood is *not* always a good thing.

The Laibon claim that their own elders are weaker than the Western Kindred mainly because they partake in rituals that lower the blood potency of the old vampires but simultaneously raises that of their fledglings. They do this because "old blood" tends to unravel the minds of the Elders and create a whole cavalcade of derangements that go along with it. The Laibon Elder see the (slightly) weakening of their blood through blood-sharing rituals a perfectly reasonable price to pay, when their own sanity is at stake.

>Could the Antedeluvians once have been no stronger than a 13th gen? And if so, how strong will they be a thousand years from now? And how strong will the methuselahs of the 4th and 5th gen be?

Possibly, but who knows, it'd be all up to the Storyteller!

Well I thought it might have been Persuasion
>Sees what you did there X)

>>Is the blood of Caine thickening?
>Yes, it is.
>Beckett discovers, among other things, that some thinbloods have begun to develop clan characteristics. One thinblood suddenly ended up losing his shadow, showing that he'd spontaneously re-connected with his Lasombra heritage, and that sort of stuff.

HA I called them importing Blood Potency

Mage or Chamgeling

Gymnastics is Athletics, hands down.
Ballet is expression, no question about it.

Figure Skating does throw me off a bit, I could see it being either. I'd probably go with athletics to perform feats like jumping and expression for just floating around like a poof on the rink.

Do you want to be ultimately powerful? Go Mage. Do you want to be a whiny little bitchboi/bitchgirl who does nothing but cry about going on a magic vacation? Play Changeling.

>magic vacation
>kidnapped, tortured, lost your human life and soul, and are constantly hunted by extra-dimensional beings

Alrighty then...

Balance, Flexibility, lifts, twirls, jumps, high kicks. All of those are under athletics. and Ballet covers all of them. Same reason you put FigureSkating for athletics

Those guys and gal are IN SHAPE
youtube.com/watch?v=WUrJuSh0evE

In awakening could a mind mage wipe another mage 's memories of their magic/arcanums? Probably not make them forget magic altogether but send them back to arcanum 1 expertice

>The upcoming V20 book, "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" actually touches on this issue. It also introduces the 16th generation of vampires, which was created in the last couple of years in the V20 timeline.

Yeah, nah, that's a pile of shit made by OPP.

That, combined with their revisionist bullshit regarding Saulot can fuck off back to the shithole that spawned them.

>HA I called them importing Blood Potency

That's been around for a long time, though, if I recall correctly. I mean, the 12th/13th Gens used to be regarded as the "final" generations in the Dark Ages, even before V20 or Requiem, yet those same generations became "regular" vampires during the Final Nights.

So while I wouldn't really have been bothered if they *did* import Blood Potency from Requiem, there were always hints that blood thickened over time and became more powerful.

>That, combined with their revisionist bullshit regarding Saulot can fuck off back to the shithole that spawned them.

Wait, you're actually bothered by the fact that they're opening for the idea that Saulot *could* be a good guy but also a bad guy, depending on what the Storyteller decides to implement?

lol k

Salt is real mate.

>ould a mind mage wipe another mage 's memories of their magic/arcanum

No, Awakened magic is part of a mage's soul.

A Mind attack could probably befuddle a mage enough to hinder forming an imago, but the effect would be quite temporary.

I oppose faggots that like to play revisionist.

As if this Lore of the Bloodlines bullshit isn't enough with how they completely revise the history between the Salubri and Tzimisce, now there's this Jyhad Diary bullshit.

Seriously now, why is WW letting them go forth with this?

Isn't this sort of instinctual? I guess you could make him forget theory about it but not the power itself

>play revisionist

Vampire history isn't real.

You know what I meant.

I'm requiemfag so I have no stakes(HUEHUEHUE) in this but why are people even opposed to changing such details? How often do intentions of someone like Saulot come into play in their games?

I'm just making sure. After that one dude came in going off about how his life was ruined because Mage magic isn't real I don't know what to expect anymore.

>magic isn't real

That's right.

The perfect example of non-biased if ever there was one.

that was sarcasm. Fuck off magefag

>why are people even opposed to changing such details?

Because they're faggots who REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE anything changes. Ever.

>How often do intentions of someone like Saulot come into play in their games?

Pretty much never.

>stop reading Changing Breeds around the point furries get mentioned
>Think they've nerfed bastet
>Get linked to the SA post archive
>Oh so very wrong
>Everything is worse than expected
>Were-african-elephant > all

Changing Breeds were mistake.
No seriously War against the pure did solid job on adding shapeshifters other than werewolfs. Why didn't they expand on that

>Using neo wod changing breeds
Just play WtA instead

Lazy vampires with big ambitions and 5 dots in resources never let your players take 5 dots in resources

I have player with 4 dots and I want to stab him already

Mechanically every generation has and Had been weaker. IE bloodpoints and blood spent per round. 11gen had 12BP 12gen had 11BP 13 had 10BP.

Once you have 13 gens with 11BPs you break away from the generation system and then you have blood potency. (Without diab of course.)

Or 14gens with 10BPs. Or you just have a bottom out of all 13+gens at BP10 and they eat up gens. Which is again BloodPotency

>I do like BloodPot because it gets the old dragon argument. I am old because I am powerful. or I am powerful because I am old

15th generation vampires can have children and only take lethal damage from sunlight, they can't sire or make blood bonds. This is stated in Time of the Thin Blood.

Saying
>lol 16th exist now!
Is pure revisionism of the worst kind

And thus the 5th edition war began

It's really is. I once had to stop the guy from buying recreational nukes I know I could turned it into a sideplot, but that asshole seriously was pissing me off.

I had another character with 5 resources who used his money to blow up Elysium. At least that lead to a fun game. Never again though.

Dance is explicitly listed as a specialty for Expression.

Which isn't to say your average figure skater and ballet dancer probably doesn't have some dots in athletics as well.

The 16th are gonna be even weaker so stop bitching

>Can only take 2 dots in disciplines
>Not immortal
>No ghouls
>Can't use most of his blood points for useful stuff
Just imagine how shit they will be

I know that now, I just had some woefully misplaced hopes after reading WtF2e

>be a hunter
>outpunch 16th gen
>man this are the saddest fucks

>Saying
>lol 16th exist now!
>Is pure revisionism of the worst kind

so much salt

>>Not immortal

Well, unless they take that particular "not immortal" flaw (which all thin-blooded can take, not just 16th gens) then they're still gonna be immortal.

But yeah, 16th gens are shit in terms of power. That's... kinda the point.

Considering some flaws for 14th gen are granted by default to 15th gen vampires, I think it's possible they will have this flaw naturally

>Saying
>>lol 16th exist now!
>Is pure revisionism of the worst kind
No its not, its just adding more to the setting.

>its just adding more bullshit to the setting.
I totally agree

I'm way more sympathetic towards magefags now. Vampfags are the fucking worse

>Considering some flaws for 14th gen are granted by default to 15th gen vampires, I think it's possible they will have this flaw naturally

That's true... though, the write-up we can see in the Jyhad Diary previews don't mention that said flaw is automatically acquired.

Still, it's definitely something that could happen, I'll grant you that.

>being this salty over something so minor

The things is, the right way to play VtM is with the 7 camarilla clans and that's it.

Sabbat and the independents were a mistake.

Don't you talk smack 'bout my Lasombra waifu, faggot.

>Waifuing edgy social darwinists

But the Sabbat were a thing since the first VtM book.

I'm talking about Sabbat playability and clans

I'm pretty sure the Lasombra and Tzimisce were mentioned in it, but I can agree with the sentiment. The Sabbat focuses too much on being an edgy asshole.

The problem about the Sabbat is that the moder Sabbat is all about being an edgy moster who revels in gore and slaughter.
But the idea behind the founding of the sabbat - freeing yourself from the chains of the Older vampires, the really old and venerable ones, was a good idea and can make for interesting character concepts. You just make a about 400-500 year old Lasombra or Ventrue antitribuu who is charming and eloquent. But has no remorse if he/she has to kill somebody fangs bared.
Yeah if you play Sabbat like a 4 weeks old shovelhead good luck and embrace your beastiality... but don't bother when everybody calls you and your friends edgelords!

This. The Sabbat can be cool and fun to play, but it can too often end up in edgy murderhobos.

That is where you GM has to work. It should not even come to this. If you all agree on playing Sabbat, sit with your players and talk with them about what characters they want to play. Even the sabbat can be tragic. Simple things as an escaped shovelhead Lasombra who is shunned by the rest of Kainite society is valid character concept.

I would like to play a Lasomra, with the hunted background who - thanks to beeing unbondable and thus immune to the vaulderie - fled the Sabbat and just wants... well from there you are free to make what you want.

Ok so I may have sold out the location of the Sabbat base to the Vatican.... My pack doesn't know I sold out the base yet but they know I tried to attack them when they got in a fight with the Hunters and pretty much have it confirmed that I'm high-Humanity. They knocked me out and are going to decide what to do with me next session. What the FUCK do I say to talk my way out of this? The only saving grace is that the pack almost uniformly has 9+ Viniculum ratings with me.

For reference I'm a fresh Shovelhead. I was planning to just try and keep my head down and conform while avoiding the edge as much as possible, but then I ended up ashing a Tremere in a single bite by accident and then accidentally draining a guy to death right after, then accidentally siring him in a panic, getting 4-5 Conscience successes on every check and picking up some guilt-based derangements as well as kicking myself into gear that I have to do something about the monsters I'm surrounded by.

Try to convince them the Sabbat is compromised by infernalist agents of the antediluvians and you're trying to save their souls by atoning for the sins of the Cainite race.

pray... pray that God, the almighry Lord may save your Soul because you tried really hard to redeem yourself. Maybe you are heard??

Or make up a story about that this is all part of a larger Plan that you would really tell them if they only would let you go. You can even show them XY if they follow you. From there you have to make shit up.
What clan are you? with what disciplines?

I'm a fucking Intelligence 1 Brujah! I'm a total moron! I've got Celerity as well as Drive 4 so I can pretty easily skip town alive if it comes to that assuming I make it out of the initial interrogation alive, which I probably will. I'm coming up short on ways to not have to retire the character though. Damn my love of playing ditzy characters.

How much Charisma/Presence do you have? Bullshitting your way out of the first interrogation before legging it is a good plan, but if you manage to convince them of some shadowy plot by elders it could be a fun chronicle.

I've got manipulation and subterfuge out the wazoo as well as a specialty for unbelievable lies, so making up a massive conspiracy could be hilarious.

Then do it! Insist on the fact you're doing it to redeem all vampires and swear to Caine every other sentence.

>Van Helsing training school for thinbloods
It was just too pitiful, man.
And some of them even go after older gens after I've trained them.

Only one problem....

There really is a secret infernalist presence in the Sabbat. And it's my packmates. Our pack priest is a hardcore Cainite and anti-infernalist, but everyone besides the two of us are infernalists on that one path that makes you need to corrupt people to evil. A fact that I don't know in-character.

>Seriously now, why is WW letting them go forth with this?
youtube.com/watch?v=XjsQUcFHF0k

Hope your bullshitting forces the others to make a mistake and leads to infighting, then run.