Why does Veeky Forums love Warhammer so much?

>A lot of people here still seem to be divided on the direction of the company is going, like with Age of Sigmar. Do you think it will get better or worse?

You have to stop listening to the vocal minority. AoS was a huge boom to Fantasy, previously fantasy wasn't selling, post AoS it rocketed up to almost as popular as 40k (gw reports that AoS is 45% of all model sales, previously fantasy made up less sales than paints)

The main focus for the company is getting NEW players into the games, they've introduced getting started kits which often save you $50-80, and other bundles like armored assault boxes which save you $30 or so

One thing I think they'll definitely do is scrap hit and wound modifiers and they'll scrap armour values as well. Both cause an infinite number of problems and people are liking AoS where it's the same everytime.

Personally I find that the sheer quantity of lore makes up for the fact that some of it can be a bit lousy. As said, look into the lore and world-building stuff a bit first, read a book or play a game to see if the universe vibes with you then if it does, 8th edition.

>Roboute Gulliman is indicated to potentially go traitor
Sounds like a bullshit rumor, straight away.

>If you're buying basic troops then surprise surprise you'll still need/want them
This.
Your basic boots of the ground are almost always a necessity, and if the game ever returns to earlier ways where vehicles were NOT superior to it's points in infantry that could perfom the same job, will be a boon.

>Sounds like a bullshit rumor, straight away.
Naw, this one is pretty credible. Rumor is that Roboute Gulliman is creating his own race of SUPER Space Marines, like mass-produced Adeptus Custodes except much larger. This is an excuse for GW to introduce truescale SMs basically. Since elite SMs are already the Grey Knight's schtick, the differentiator will be that Gulliman is going to use his elite force to reform the Imperium by toppling the High Lords.

Or something like that

Rumour I heard is that he is practical, realises explaining how emps wasn't a god would throw the imperium into disarry and civil war, so he accepts being worshipped in order to defend and further humanity

No chaos corruption

We have heard the rumour, doesn't mean he is going traitor, apparently cawl helps him do this

>toppling the High Lords.
Fucking Civil War, man.

"traitor" in this sense probably just refers to . It's that whole stupid "I'm for humanity and the Emperor but not the Imperium as it stands" thing that keeps getting tossed around.

Is it really possible that an AOS style shift will occur with the rules???

>It is only, and I mean this, worth getting into if you can invest.

Generally this is true but if youre able to be happy playing an elte army you can throw together a good list over time with a few subs.

Play what you enjoy and dont chase the meta, also what others have said wait till we know more on 8th so you can make informed long term decisions.

source? as of right now everything is just rumors

...

Adding on to this, given the sheer scope and nature of the lore, you can pick and choose a lot it. Even in-universe, a lot of things are some level of myth, legend, or propaganda, so a lot of the time, you can choose to believe something happened or not.

Ollanius Pious was real, never forget.

Bullshit. I speak as a fan of the game and it's clearly going, as of now, to be around 30-35%. Which is a good share but still not THAT high. Still, we are doing well, on the contrary to what the contrarians like to parrot.

>They seriously take up about 90% of the table top miniatures market.
This hasn't been true in at least five years. Hell, it hasn't been true in ever.

Historical Wargaming has always shat on 40k. Yes, there never was a single, monolithic entity, but that's not what wargaming is about. The HWG community is so big, 40k is dwarfed in comparison.
It wasn't even true inhouse, for most of WHFB's life cycle. WHFB was at times bigger and it always was bigger than 40k in Europe. Even after 40k overtook it, it wasn't that much smaller until they effectively started assassinating it in 7th edition by jacking up the model count and completely fucking it in the ass by doing it again with 8th.
It wasn't true during GW's heyday with LotR, which is why 40kfags have been and always will be salty when you bring up SBG. SBG was so fucking big, it carried GW by itself. It was so big that most White Dwarfs of that time were dedicated to it and 40k was, at times, completely pushed to the side.
It isn't true now, the King is X-Wing. And before somebody spergs out and calls it "not a wargame", kindly neck yourself. Dogfighting Wargames are older than fucking 40k and you can still easily paint the models. You don't have any fucking highground, not when you are playing a game where most players don't even properly assemble their miniatures, let alone fucking paint them. X-Wing is so much bigger than 40k, it's laughable.
Not to mention that Warmachine and Hordes have garnered enough of a following to be a very significant competitor to 40k, according vendor surveys. They are squandering that popularity like fucking idiots, but it's there.
Infinity is in every city by now and it's surging in popularity. Niche games are growing like weeds.
Jesus fuck.

Roughly 99% of the shit they've published since the advent of 5th Edition is complete dogshit. Every time someone asks "has there been any good, new lore?" people come up with two fucking books and "uuhh, some articles in White Dwarf? Sorta, kinda, maybe?"
I cannot fathom how anyone still gives a shit about 40k fluff by now.

40k is the D&D, the Apple, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the World of Warcraft, the Call of Duty of wargaming.
It's a self perpetuating meme that subsists on sheer momentum. Veeky Forums loves 40k, because it started as a 40k cointainment board. Hence there being a sizeable 40k crowd that draws in other people.

>Is it worth getting into?
As someone that has played since 2nd Edition: No, fuck no.
The rules were always an arcane clusterfuck, but they've only steadly declined since 4th edition. The game has way too many fucking models on the table. It started out as a sorta-skirmish game and was ridiculously inflated with every edition, in order to sell more shit.
They somehow managed to write shittier fluff with every iteration. They've slaughtered every real mystery, every fascination, every truly intriguing question and replaced them with retarded horseshit and shit writing. 40k's fluff was never that amazingly written, but it managed to give you ideas, to catch your interest and spur your own fantasy. The Horus Heresy novel series was the beginning of the grand shittening on the lore and the cancer infested 40k itself, turning it into a near-capeshit level of flavorless mush.
The technical quality of the miniatures is ridiculous. It would make my grognardling self from twenty years ago weep in sheer awe. But most of them lack soul, their composition is a mess and they are overburdened by trashheap of details. And not in the good, 40k way. Some of them are great though, which won't get you far because they are fucking expensive.

If you must, absolutely MUST play 40k, buy used shit. It's literally just as good, most people don't paint their stuff anyway. And for those that do, just strip it. Stripping, repainting, reparing, fixing and converting used models will also give you a shitton of skills to personalize your stuff.
But if you want to get into wargaming, I'd reccomend nearly any other game out there. But stay away from Warmahordes.

>It's that whole stupid "I'm for humanity and the Emperor but not the Imperium as it stands" thing that keeps getting tossed around.

That's just headcanon. Guilliman wouldn't close libraries in Ultramar and say "now is the time for war, not learning" if he didn't accept the Grimdark.

battered spouse syndrome

>"now is the time for war, not learning"
I know that many people already pointed this out but... this is weaponsgrade stupid. Times of war are the times when learning is the most needed. It's the time when completely new ideas are born every day, developed to their fullest by noon and old news by sundown. Closing down giant repositories of knowledge when you most need them is some advanced grimderp braintumor.

>Closing down giant repositories of knowledge when you most need them is some advanced grimderp braintumor.

Doesn't mean it's smart, but it refutes the headcanon idea that Guilliman is plotting a coup in the name of reason and enlightenment.

what about 3rd ed? I heard it was simpler.

I liked third. If I got back in it would be to play third.

tell more, we kinda want to start with 40k but sheer size of shit scares us. By us, i mean ork player, 'cron player and DA player.

3rd Edition was a massive overhaul and completely different from 2nd Edition. A lot of people didn't like it at the time and, honestly, it was really fucking rough around the edges.
The main reason for that being that it was actually a houserule WW2 ruleset by Rick Priestley that was never meant to be sold. The team made a good, concise overhaul of 2nd Edition, but management wanted them to push bigger armies and so they had to substitute the homebrew at last minute. It never got the overhaul it needed and the abomination we call 7th Edition is pretty much still 3rd with a lot of bells and whistles attached.
If anything, I'd reccomend 4th Edition because it's the most "fixed" version of 3rd, without any of the dumb changes they made from 5th going onward. 4th Edition with 3rd Edition books gives a lot of variety, especially if you get Chapter Approved stuff in there.
But the armies are still too big for the scale, because you can only cram so many models on a regular table until it kills any maneuvering. It plays a lot better at 15mm.
The best version of 40k is probably a modified version of Bolt Action (also by Priestley, pretty much his WW2 homebrew properly made into a game), played at 15mm to allow for proper, 40k-feeling armies.
Or Epic. Epic is the trues form of 40k.

Simpler rules, for one. Recently looked at 7th and made my head hurt. Codex wise, I didn't think they were as screwy as later editions. Plus, supplements like Armageddon gave more options than just marines. Granted there were flaws, like some wonky vehicle stuff that supposedly got cleared up in 4th or 5th, but it played fine for us.

Look, take it from somebody that has been doing this for way too long.
It's not good. It looks great, mysterious and intriguing from the outside, but once you step in, you start digging in shit. At first it's not so bad, but the deeper you get, the worse it becomes. Take your three armies, for example.
Orks have always been dogshit. They went years and years without an update after 3rd Edition and were complete bottomfeeders. Then came their overhaul and it made them an okay army in exchange for completely stripping them of any unique features. And after that it was straight back to shit city again.
Dark Angels have always been "Vanilla Marines but shitty" in every iteration, except for maybe pure Ravenwing, read: Bikes and Land Speeders, lists.
And 'crons were half an army until 5th edition. I played them and loved them, but their list was tiny and half of the stuff was unplayable. Then they became great and had their lore retconned. And now they are sorta okay.
The point I'm making here is: 40k was always a deeply flawed game, but most of its flaws became worse over time. People play and love D&D and Pathfinder and you know what? It's actually easy to have a good time with a shitty RPG. Because you have a GM that can just overrule most of the crap. With wargames it's not so easy, because they are competetive. Sure, in your group, with your friends you can houserule stuff, but do you really want to go through so much work just to have a fair game with a janky ruleset?
At least play Epic, the rules are free, the miniatures are cheap and it doesn't get more 40k than dozens of tanks rushing through an actual city-sized city to flank a squad of real Reaver Titans.

I wouldn't call it love, it more that it's enjoyable and famous as well as a controversial, thus creates a lot of traffic.WH is an oxymoron in many ways: Personally love the world(s) but fluff has lots of stupid plotlines and retardation.I think it has good solid game at core but it's rules are unbalanced and wonky as hell to put it mildly. Some of my favorite models are WH40k based rest they aren't the best models out there.

I'll get flamed for this but fuck it. If you're JUST getting into wargaming, I'd suggest starting with Age of Sigmar.

The rules are simple enough to learn in 1 game and all of them are available for free right now, including all warscrolls (which is where all the stats and special rules are for every model/unit in the whole game).

You also have the added benefit of the lore just starting so you don't have to go wading through 20+ years of novels and backstory to get into the lore (though the lore is total shit at the moment, but is progressing slightly).

To top it off, you can start playing at a very cheap level. Most Start Collecting! boxes are very competitive and will let you grab a solid base to expand your army upon, and given the fact that they are typically $85, it's one of the better deals you'll find out there right now. To top it off, if you want to start playing 1k games, you probably only have to purchase another unit and 1 or 2 heroes/monsters and you can easily be at 1k.

I was an avid WHFB player since 6th edition (and I still play 9th Age sometimes), and recently have been playing a lot of AoS. As a starter system, it's great. Lots of neckbeards shit on it because MUH 4-PAGE RULES but most of that criticism is bullshit. All GW did was shift all of the complexity and depth to the individual unit warscrolls and battalions. It's all still there (for the most part) but the core rules are very simple to learn.

Infinity is a good starter game too. Malifaux is actually probably the most tactically complex game on the market and also is REALLY fucking cheap to get into so you could check that out if that's your cup of tea.

WHFB are for the Elite, 40k are for plebs.

I'm going to give you a genuine opinion assuming you had a genuine question that needed answering. Don't listen to all these people telling you to wait and over think it, the only way humans learn anything is trial and error.

So here's your step by step guide for getting into warhammer.

>go to gaming store, preferably a GW
>browse browse browse
>don't get bogged down in conversation with salesmen or other players
>if you have questions ask them, then go back to browsing
>when something jumps off the wall at you, you will know what you want
>don't buy any books at all
>buy one box of the guys you like
>buy the paints and glues you need to build them
>if you haven't fallen in love with them yet, the game probably isn't for you
>but persist anyways
>take your guys to the shop, have a quick game with them
>if you haven't fallen in love with them yet, the game definitely isn't for you
>once you love the game buy books
>buy more guys
>more painting and assembling supplies
>the last thing to buy is something good to carry them in

Getting into this game is going to cost you around 300-500 dollars (canadian). But if you follow the proper steps, or better yet don't listen to anything anyone says and just so what you personally want, you'll have a good time.

Warhammer really is one of the best games out there, I've played it for 15 years, 40k, fantasy, lotr, and AoS, all of them are great games. It is not cheap in any way, but it's worth the price I think.

Can someone give an idea of how good the current lore is for the games?

It's a great story, always has been. It's overwhelming as fuck and there's a lot of contradiction but god dam it's just so fucking cool

As someone fairly new to the hobby itself myself... it's not worth getting into unless you can get a good deal on second hand minis. The rules are so convoluted and games take too long while getting rules wrong all the time. I got a great deal but here I am 3 months later with a solid grasp on the game but still leaves me wishing for a more streamlined with the same lore

40k is the reason why Veeky Forums was made, it was a containment board for 40k threads which were spammed on /b/

Where does one get Epic miniatures?

This, more or less.
It's got enough crunch for sci-fi folks, enough mysticism for fantasy folks, and enough density and sheer glory for the more /hwg/ oriented individuals.

Ebay for originals. There are also a lot of Not!Epic Manifacturers and games you can take from. There are also recasters. Keep an eye out for Epic threads, head over to /awg/ and ask for 6mm stuff and look at the tactical command forums.

Only good luck actually getting an account on the Taccmnd forums....

Its a cool setting.

You take the sprites from the wh40k Vassal module and use them to make printable counters.

>advancing the storyline
Thankfully it doesn't look like they're going any farther than advancing the clock from '2 minutes to midnight' down to 1 minute.

The 'extra huge super marines' part has been shot down, though apparently we're going to see 'Mark X' Astartes armour.

>closed the libraries
Someone made a good point in a previous thread, about how the libraries of Ultramar are probably like those in the rest of the Imperium, full of dogma about the God-Emperor, rather than any information about the secular Imperial Truth.

>Someone made a good point in a previous thread, about how the libraries of Ultramar are probably like those in the rest of the Imperium, full of dogma about the God-Emperor, rather than any information about the secular Imperial Truth.

I think people tend to forget that the Space Marine chapters retained their Legion traditions and never accepted the teachings of the Ecclesiarchy. This is referred to repeatedly throughout the lore. The Space Marines (with some exceptions) refuse to acknowledge the divinity of the Emperor.

The specific library referred to in GSIII is the Library of Ptolemy, which is a library maintained by the Librarius of the Ultramarines, and therefore unlikely to be a trove of Ministorum dogma, except to the extent it has a section devoted to "modern religions".

Guilliman closing down this library, a repository of all human knowledge, is meant to show how serious he is about preparing for grimdark war.

>Oh wow, yeah, I will definitely wait then for that to come out before I decide to invest.
while most independant games GW has thrown out were jokes, this has much much potential on its own, regardless of what 8th will bring
And makes for a good starter.

warhammer-community.com/2017/03/15/war-returns-to-armageddon/

40k is shit, AoS is maybe worse but at least unpretentious about it. The only reason they are big is because they are big, so people play them so that they have opponents. In terms of game quality, they are right at the bottom.

Alien plus elf fetishism.

Momentum and love of the good old lore.

If you go 3rd, you'd want to add the modified assault rules. That might be a hard find though. I'd probably use 4th, using the latest codex before the 4e Dark Angels codex. Most books were roughly on par then, and most of the books were the most interesting version of that book.

This guy nkows what he's on about.

>Orks have always been dogshit. They went years and years without an update after 3rd Edition and were complete bottomfeeders.
We could win tournaments through 3 and 4e. KoS was a solid list, the Klan rules were decent and the codex had several builds that were, if not tier 1, capable of snagging a major tourney.

>We could win tournaments through 3 and 4e
Yeah, but a lot of that came by virtue of nobody really expecting us and nobody knowing what the fuck Orks could actually do. And the Choppa rule invalidating high armor. That, plus looting weapons and vehicles gave Orks a good rogue factor.

Lootas were pretty mediocre, though some looted tanks went okay. Russes were solid. Ork upgrades + Leman Russ was solid. I went for footslogga dakka. Grots screening 5BS flash gitz and 5RL tankbustas. Shooty orks has rogue factor, but weren't really the good ork list.

I think KoS blitz lists had more than a rogue factor though. They were win big, lose big, but I'd say they were top of tier 2, and one of the lists you had to be prepared for if you were hoping to place at a tourny.

It really isn't.

The game is terrible, the setting is nonsensical and getting blander by the day and the company is pure Satan.

Check out Infinity, Armada, Malifaux or Guild Ball instead.

We all played it as kids. Some of us grew up and moved on to better games, others didn't.

Veeky Forums was created back in the day as a containment thread for when Warhammer Wednesday on /b/ started to overflow all over the place.
It is ingrained into the Veeky Forums cultural meme, and I mean meme in the classic sense of the word.

baby's first wargame
imprint thereafter

It's fun, the lore is fucking cool, the models are awesome.
It suffers from that which all popular things suffer from, bad management and cancerous fans.
But I'd say overall, it's not bad. You won't find another game like it.

This, this board exists purely because of warhammer

Depends. Do you live near a decent sized store that has a load of people who play it? Might be worth your time if you do.... Though they're going to release a game called 'Armageddon' in April (iirc) that could be a good introduction to GW games... maybe. Skirmish game, so the forces needed are smaller too.

>potentially more models needed

Because they didn't learn their lesson with WFB 7e and 8e.

A huge pile of shit is still at least 99% shit.

That's the best part about AoS.

You can use less minis.

5th ed was the pinnacle of codex layout.

its only got more convoluted and shittier since then.

>Lootas were pretty mediocre, though some looted tanks went okay.
Honestly, if GW does anything good for Orks, it'd be bring back Lootas that can actually, y'know, LOOT SHIT. Not this 'you get Deffguns and bland-as-fuck Looted Wagons' nonsense GW has left us with.
>And the Choppa rule invalidating high armor.
Oh zog, don't tell me they've taken that rule away from the greenskins (this user hasn't been active since 5th edition-ish). That was half of the Orks close-combat appeal!

They took that away at the end of 4th.

Agreed. If you don't want people to need multiple codexes, a spread of options to represent the equivilent weapons wouldn't even be bad. It'd mean options other than Plasmacannon/lascannon are worth really considering.

Bull fucking shit show me the numbers.

My local fantasy players at the FLGS evaporated overnight.

This is the one true thing.... kinda.

Even the General's Handbook tries to make 2,000 points the 'minimum game size' though.

>5th ed was the pinnacle of codex layout.
>Nids have been shit since 5th
Coincidence?

3rd edition had completely acceptable codex layouts.

Yeah. The change of layout mid 4th around the simplification of the codexes was a downturn, but before that they were good.

Hay, can anyone be a nice person can drop a dark angels 7ed codex into the thread for me, thank you.

Also sorry for the mis spell in the last comment of mine.

Best Warhammer fantasy involves the 6e skirmish rules.

Look at this guy. He's in the codex where everything was nerfed except himself.

Somehow he was buffed pretty nicely. Which is weird.

I agree with you on AoS. But I disgree is a good starting game, its cheap to get into but hard to play, same for Malifaux

holy shit. this. I remember reading old codices as a kid and the little snippets of text were awesome. Read Kau'yon today and the dialogue is SO BAD. Like "I am a 5th grader and this is my first time writing a conversation bad". What the fuck happened ?

>Why does Veeky Forums love Warhammer so much?
Because it's such a retarded mess of a setting it's piss easy to make lulzy shit in it.

Oh... you mean modern Veeky Forums. They find the lore... endearing... or something. Quality models. Yeah, models.
Modern Veeky Forums is simply full of retards who overpowered the original group that ultimately knew the answer to your question.

...

> Hard to play.

Are you actually autistic user? It's fucking 4 pages of rules.

And for anyone getting into wargaming... AoS is likely to put you off for life.

Start with Warhammer 40,000 but scrap the formations. There, I've just made the game 10X better for you.

there's a large number of people on here who actually work at GW stores. The rest have bought into a hobby so expensive that they now have to rationalize it

protip ; you can play the same game using poker chips and a pen/paper at 1/10th the cost. Miniatures wargaming is awful

What happened? Have the old writing staff moved on?

This is so fucking accurate.

Because the idea of two people fighting with flaming chainsaws in a planet destroying space cathedral is fucking radical.

Bruh chill.

40k has steadily declined after reaching peak crunch and fluff somewhere between 3rd and 4th edition. 5th did dumb shit with vehicles, 6 and 7 are a clusterfuck to sell more bigass models.

WHFB had better fluff with interesting characters and some levity to balance grimdark. 40k has slowly destroyed all mysterious.

Epic Starter guide:
docs.google.com/document/d/1qbdKBovf9wLb8g_Vka2ntlTzvkFZ1_9VFqLvfAoCda8/edit?usp=sharing

But basically:
eBay - originals, mostly Space Marines and Imperial Guard; also a few things by recasters like Rhinos, Vindicators, and Xiphons
Trolls under the Bridge (eBay store or email them) - Imperial Guard, some Necrons
Onslaught Minis - armies that look similar to Tau, Dark Eldar, Sisters, Genestealer Cults, Imperial Guard
Vanguard Minis - slightly larger scale, but they've got not-marines, Imperial Guard, AdMech, and Orks
Exodus Wars (sold by HLS right now) - not-Squats and some Necron infantry
Bradley Miniatures - not-marines

Shapeways - Predator turrets you can stick onto the cheap eBay plastic Rhinos

the only stuff you ever have replace in a rules update is the rulebook itself.

OP if you get into things just download the rules for now. Invest in books when the new eddition drops and if you like it.

>Do the editions really shift the entire game so much that half the stuff you have becomes useless?
that never happens. 40k minis don't become obselete ever, i still play with stuff i got in 95

The tabletop scene is still pretty good.

The lore used to be pretty good too but as of recent events that should go unspoken it's becoming increasingly batshit retarded, and it's been regressing to that for the past 5 years.

>Roboute Gulliman is creating his own race of SUPER Space Marines
Sounds incredibly retarded. Where is he getting the scientific know-how to do this?

I'd accept it if he joined up with the Hippocrasian Agglomeration, nothing else is okay.