Horus Heresy General /HHG/

So you could call one of them a....
Angry White Guy?

*puts sunglasses on over MkVI helmet*
YEEEEAAAAAAAAHH

So since there's no 40kg i'll ask you guys.

Are regular primarchs stronger than demon prince primarchs? Because when Girlyman came back everyone in the galaxy shat their collective pants - while the chaos primarchs have had their shit pushed in multiple times in the last 10k years.

Hell, a primarch demon prince isn't even the leader of chaos.

>So since there's no 40kg

It literally has 40kg in the title you faggot you didn't even CTRL + F

They are supposed to be stronger as a demon, but fluff =/= rules and plot demands chaos losing.

Not really necessary, but you will need to be able to kill enemy tanks without anti-armour tanks of your own. A Typhon is basically a hard-counter to infantry of any description, and various other tanks can also be nasty. The other thing to watch for other than shooty tanks is a primarch deathstar in a Spartan, which may be the majority of an enemy's points but it will annihilate everything it touches. Even a Deredeo with the Arachnus won't reliably damage flare-shielded AV14, so having something to remove typhons/spartans/fellblades/similar should be the thing to base an army around. Some people go with a Leviathan in a pod with a drill and a melta to remove enemy armour, which is what i use. I play in the tank-heavy Australian meta, but even elsewhere you can run into mechanised lists that can be really nasty to an infantry/walker list. Your Dark Furies are the ultimate marine blenders if you can catch something with them, and can do damage to small units of terminators too i.e. not fat two-wound deathstars, so i would use them instead of your assault marines. Otherwise, sounds good.

Did Curze or the Night Lords win literally any victories against loyalist forces during the Heresy? Isstvan V doesn't count.

No because the Night Lords are the punching bag of the traitor legions.

Just like the Iron Hands are the same for the loyalists

Whats strange is how the 40k universe has existed for decades and within the span of a few months all of the scales are tipped in favor of any faction OTHER than Chaos.

Turns out the Necrons had essentially always had the capacity to close the Eye of Terror.

The Eldar gods were never LESS powerful than the Chaos ones, it just so happens for a span of time Chaos was in flux and had defeated/devoured large portions of their pantheon.

The Tyranids never posed a galactic level threat to any of the other factions save for maybe the Tau.

The Dark Eldar have been all but obliterated.

Portions of the traitor Legions aren't actually traitors, specifically the Thousand Sons when Ahriman resurrects them among the Fallen being the loyalists all along.

I'm having a hard time viewing Chaos as a legitimate threat anymore.

Having read all the heroic sacrifice across countless books about galaxy changing mcguffins. I'm starting to get the feeling that Chaos has never really been anything more than a wrench in the Emperors plans.

The guy is still alive after doing battle with Horus backed by the power of the Chaos gods who promptly abandoned him when the Emperor destroyed his soul.

The Emperor as a dying corpse is powerful enough to hold back the gods from breaking into the Imperial palace while simultaneously projecting his pyschic might across the galaxy in the form of the Astronomicon. While also performing minor miracles and other fuckery.

What the actual fuck.

>first game with talons of the emperor
>Friend says he wants to put his gal vorbak up against my Hetaeron Guard squad and shield captain with paragon spear
>His face when the shield captain murders 3/5th of the unit before the others even get to swing

Now there is even hinting that the Horus Heresy was among the Emperors cards the whole time as a means of quelling the Astartes.

In other words, the Emperor wanted to conquer nearly all the known galaxy while devouring human souls for ten thousand years in preparation for his apotheosis as even godlier entity, one capable of striking down the Chaos gods.

God damn it.

Did you tell him that your models are all CC monsters?

From another lore perspective, the Gal Vorbak with higher quality demons still only amount to a Custodian stat line, while being equipped with shittier gear and rules.

The Emperor was making super soldiers more powerful than Daemon possessed space marines since before the Great Crusade.

>Ahriman resurrects them among the Fallen being the loyalists all along.

Wait, what? Is it from the gathering derp book 3?

Are you surprised?
The Fallen have been memed into being the loyalists forever, and the resurrected thousand sons probably all went 'my dad's a douchebag, but Grandad is a cripple with our retarded siblings sitting on his lawn'
All hail the God-Emperor Mary Sue?

Phone corrected shitting to sitting.

What is everyone working on tonight?

Ok, so here is the break down.

Inferno breaks down the math of Chaos blood magic and indicates that it is impossible for the number of souls at the great temple of Magnus at the time of transposition into the warp was enough of a sacrifice to perform such a feat.

In essence, with the amount of soul magic used in the sorcery, there would have only been enough sorcery to transport Magnus, Ahriman, one other person and the pyramid to the planet of the Sorcerers. Perhaps more or less, I'm not entirely sure but the point is it wasn't possible.

It's implied that Ahriman's traveling around with not Thousand Son Thousand Sons.

This means that nearly his ENTIRE Legion died Loyalist at the battle of Prospero.

Resurrecting his Legion would result in a Legion of Loyalists appearing out of nowhere.

Yeah it's fine the Fallen are loyalists, whatever.

It's annoying that this great epic "grim dark" universe was the Great Crusade, electric boogaloo the whole time.

The Emperor had planned on killing off everyone who could threaten the Imperium before consigning himself to absorbing soul energy for ten thousand years.

The Legions that fell during the HH are inconsequential. The HH itself is pretty much inconsequential because it sets up the Emperor's inevitable rebirth as the legitimate God of Order.

I can smell the Age of the Emperor nearby...

I had known it would go this direction from all the vague indications that the Emperor was either a retard or all powerful all along.

GW clearly doesn't want a retard at the helm of their IP.

Well, that is just the Imperial theory of course, Tzeentch is presumably powerful enough to just ignore restrictions like that.

Is he though?

As far as I can tell Tzeentch is incapable of any decisive action due to his "Just as Planned" web of plans that undo themselves.

I'm about to tear these off their bases, apply Martian Iron Earth, Ard Coat and then glue them back on.

Do not reply to tripfags

Negatron Megatron.

These suckers are glued on tight.

Do you guys attach any IC/character (Apothecary, etc) to your vets?

Land's Graviton Raider, 480 points.

AV14/14/14, 4HP, BS5
Gravitic Flare Shield
Grav-backwash (only a-1 to hit this time, too heavy and big, but only works stationary)
Explorator Adaptation
Reinforced Structure (6++)

Primogenitor Supernum
Master Explorator Array

Quad-volkite turret with thermo-targeters (S6 AP4 Deflagrate Heavy 8, twin-linked)

Thermo-targeters:
A very helpful device for Archaotech scouting, it also finds an excellent use in battle. If a unit has taken wounds from Volkite or Phosphex weapons, including as a result of the Crawling Fire or Deflagrate special rules, the quad-volkite gains AP3 against that unit for the duration of the game.

Primogenitor Supernum:
First and greatest of the Raiders, this vehicle is immune to the Melta and Lance special rules, and reduces the extra D6 granted by Armourbane to a D3. Anything that would cause an automatic pen causes a glance instead.

Gravitic Flare Shield:
Normal Flare, but instead of a-2 to Blasts it can be extended to the side armour if the vehicle is stationary (Inc. pivoting).
Transport cap 12

Master Explorator Array:
Reroll on Reserves, all scoring units now contest or control objectives within 5" instead of 3, and all vehicles gain IWND, like an Archimandrite.
Can select D3 units within 12" after deployment to gain either Twin-linked, Monster Hunter, Tank Hunter or Enhanced Targeting while Land is alive, all must have the same rule.

Taghmata or Reductor LoW.
Counts as an Archmagos, and is automatically Warlord, Primarch style, but has no Warlord Trait as it's included in the package anyway.

What do you think?

Big unkillable brick with buffs, but he has to be still to survive best, and doesn't have much firepower on it's own.

Buffs are huge, but it lacks firepower itself, so if you shoot the things around it it's reduced to bullying tactical squads every couple turns. Unlike Primarchs, it can't just lol through anything it reaches, so it buffs damn well.

It depends on what your Vets are doing. If they are your Troop choices I would suggest attaching apothecaries for staying power.

If you intend on using them as strikers I'm not entirely sure what kind of support unit would have to be attached.

>40k gets Tartaros rules
>loyalist SM only
>includes Volkite, plasma blaster, and REAPER AUTOCANNONS
>CSM get nothing

I think I'm just going to redouble my efforts for 30k, guys. If you don't play loyalist space Marines in 40k, you're not worth GW's time.

Ave Dominus Nox...

Heavy 8 or twin linked, not both. Thermo Targeters mechanically do not make sense, how would targeting suddenly allow your weapon to penetrate armor it couldn't previously?

I recommend +1 to hit rather than lowering ap or rename the ability to something else.

Can you feel the noose tightening yet?

Are you prepared for the next edition when the Emperor has been resurrected and 30k/40k officially merge as elements of the Legions from the HH days rejoin the Imperium to destroy chaos, aliens and heretic alike?

It's happening.

It is already happening.

Can't be Perturabo, pic related.

Could use some list advice, this is for casual play, with the only goal being to kill a few things and then laugh as I deny victory points with the Sagyar Mazan.

>2500pt Shattered Legions, White Scars/Imperial Fists

>Rite of War: The Sagyar Mazan

>Scars Praetor, Paragon Blade, Archeotech Pistol, Iron Halo, Cyber hawk

>Fists Legion Champion Consul: Master crafted Power Axe, Artificer armor, boarding shield

>10man Scars Assault Squad, 1 each Power Sword, Axe, Glaive

>17man Fists Breacher squad, 3x lascutter, power fist

>3x Scars Apothecaries, 3x power glaive, 1 bike, 1 jump pack, 1 combi-plasma

>10x Scars Seekers, 10x combi-plasma, Power glaive.

>9x Scars Outriders, Power Sword, 2x Power Axe, Sergeant, Power Glaive,

>Fists Leviathan Siege Dreadnought, Claw, Grav flux bombard, Calivers, Phosphex

>10man Fists Heavy Weapon squad, Missile launchers, Flakk Missiles, Augury scanner

>Total, 2500pts

Should add that this is composed of stuff I can potentially have built for a few 2am games at Adepticon when nobody is watching. I like infantry more than I like bikes, and this is shit I can run with absolutely no proxying.

Russ and Custodes need beating! Help!
Scoria 2.5k list, need help with filth, very new to Mechanicum.

Scoria
magos (to sit with thanatar)

Castellax x 2
Castellax x 2
Castellax x 2
thallax x 3
thallax x 3
thallax x 3

Vultarax
Vultarax
Ursurax x 4 PF

Thanatar + targetting
Thanatar + targetting

I thought the goto statline for quad-weapons is double the shots and twin-linked, so that's what I have it. Targeters represent it getting accurate scans of how enemy armour is affected by those weapons and hitting the weak spots next time, but I didn't want to have a massive blurb in the middle of the stat block.
Dropping TL isn't a big deal, so sure. +1 To Hit is pretty much useless given it's BS5 already. Maybe have the Targeters grant Rending or PE instead?

40k is a shitshow. I'm just glad that I found people who play 30k.

>he thinks 30k isn't in the process of turning into another shitshow

Let me guess, you weren't around for books 2 and 3? Book 5, surely? The current Custode shit is just the tip of the iceberg.

It's turning into one, but it's not quite there yet.

>All hail the God-Emperor Mary Sue?
Pretty much. One of my chief irritations with 30k. Makes it seem like everyone and everything that ever lived are apparently weaker and dumber than some shamans on Earth for some reason. I mean the Emperor isn't even close to the Age of Szarehk, Ceograch and other beings int he galaxy yet seems stronger and smarter than everyone combined. Not to mention pretty much anything that might go wrong for him is then implied to maybe be all according to keikaku. Its infuriating.

I know people complain about chaosfags who are all 'we've already won its inevitable' but I find emperorfags who go 'the Emperor is stronger than everyone he's already planned it all out' equally irritating since in both cases we have two groups of fans effectively telling all the other factions they are pointless because all that matters is Chaos/Emperor (pick your poison).

I got shafted in a trade and need to replace 4 mkiv backpacks. Any suggestions for alternatives? I checked ebay and for the price they're all going for I might as well just buy another squad.

Sanguinary guard. They're cheaper and the. Backpacks are the exact same if you don't glue the wings on.

Agreed, Gathering Storm could at least have had a fourth book before RoTP where we got to see Chaos making serious gains. The problem with how the narrative is presented now it it looks like Chaos won at Cadia...then achieved nothing of import and got its ass kicked.

Not to mention the fact that the Imperium's response to what we're being told is their greatest defeat ever is that...they are going to be stronger, more numerous and better equipped...

I was honestly hoping for a significant shift in the narrative, with the Imperium having suffered a net reduction in its overall power, opening up a more multipolar galaxy.

cool, thanks dude

Got it. Solved the puzzle of the backwards hands! Whomever designed this particular chainglaive bit can go fuck himself with a chainglaive.

Is there any alternative (even 3pp) head parts for Vorax Automata?

Drop the lacutters, they are the worse weapon in the game by far.

Even the Cadia part leaves the impression of Chaos Marines going down like orks to the loyalist marines. Like multiple instances of vastly outnumbered loyalists surviving against an enemy horde with only a handfull of casualties. Though this is basically always the case, also in HH novels. The one fight in Fallen Angels did it the best, where the DA character the story follows compares the losses after repelling a wave of traitors and is horrified by how close it was to mutual destruction.

I'm kinda glad not too much changed in the end, but it is weird how suddenly the Imperium can pull a bunch more equipment and troops out of nowhere just because Roughbutt Girlyman asks nicely.

>Whomever designed this particular chainglaive bit can go fuck himself with a chainglaive.

High praise indeed

Why? Can't you just paint the bases?

Hello, mates. Can you guys check what I could fix / improve on this list?

Haven't decided on RoW yet, but I'm thinking of the Long March. 60pts left will be used on upgrades.

Oh, sadly no Drop Pods or Dreadclaws available.

So I've build my Moritat with 3 pistols (2 plasma 1 bolt) just because you can, but now I've re-read the Chain Fire rule and would like your opinion on something.

If I choose to chain-fire only using the Bolt Pistol, can I still get to 12 hits total ? It seems like you can, because the shooting again upon succesfull hit mentions weapon, not weapons, and the 12 hit cap is for both pistols, there is no cap for each individual pistol.

First round of damage on my Leviathan. I feel like whenever I need a break from building shit I'm gonna do another, til he's properly beaten to shit for a Shattered Legions force.

Looks nice, are you planning on weathering him?

>properly arched, plucked eyebrows
>almond shaped grey eyes
>high cheekbones
8/10, would rub down with oil after a hard day purging the Emperor's enemies.

You forgot the best thing
they Never talk

Is it whole Brits, or GW that is obcessed with high cheekbones and almond eyes? "Too fucking beautiful for human eyes" Eldars have those and now this.

>They are supposed to be stronger as a demon
When you ignore all the specific weaknesses that daemons have, sure!

But considering there's tricks to fuck over daemons that even regular humans can employ, clearly the 'upgrade' comes with its own package of weaknesses which bring them back down to the level (hell, even lower arguably) than the uncorrupted Primarchs.

Warhammer TV put up the Angelus seminar from the weekender:
youtube.com/watch?v=1zmiEKR4Nxg
Doubt there'll be anything we don't know, but in case it's of interest to anyone here.

There's also a vid about Inferno:
youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_TK_SGbyo
>"It's got the Space Wolves in it"
>yah-boooooooo
>"It also has the Thousand Sons"
>yeaaahhhhhhhh
Kek.

>thinking that living millions of years as a daemon in the warp, having your every whim catered to because you can imagine stuff really well
>and acting in pre-defined ways because you're just a shard of a greater being's conciousness
>counts more for experience than living 50,000 years of human history
Yeah, nah.

Body language is a most sensual thing.
They are considered high marks of beauty in both males and females.

>The Emperor as a dying corpse is powerful enough to hold back the gods from breaking into the Imperial palace
No longer a thing, Master of Mankind expressly says the webway gate is sealed.
>while simultaneously projecting his pyschic might across the galaxy in the form of the Astronomicon.
Untrue, the Astronomicon is the burning light of all the psykers hooked up to it, the Emperor simply guides and focuses the power like a giant lightning rod.
>While also performing minor miracles and other fuckery.
Assuming it's the Emperor and not the reflection in the Warp of the belief of trillions of people.
Yeah, the Emperor is all that, when you don't know the lore you are trying to quote.

>Master of Mankind expressly says the webway gate is sealed.

Sorry but BL isn't cannon as long as the don't fix the claim that there's such a high pressure in space that fighters implode when their hull is compromised.

Always thought it was pretty ridiculous to suggest that thunder warriors who barely conquer ONE dystopic planet are more powerful than astartes who conquer the fucking universe.

I'd be inclined to agree if the whole "demons under the golden throne" thing was fancanon anyway.
No codex source has ever said that would actually happen, only mentioned the shattered webway project and a daemon incursion.
Only MoM actually went into detail on how it was resolved. Idiot fans assumed it was NEVER dealt with, because obviously such a thing can't be closed or sealed up in any way, and repeat the meme until more idiots like you believe it.
I remember when Templars were 6000 strong, when GK were 3000 strong and had wards inscribed on their bones, when the Nids were running from something else, and a whole lot of other bullshit people tout around here as truth.

universe...? you mean they destroy a few thousand planets in one part of the galaxy ?

>thunder warriors who barely conquer ONE dystopic planet are more powerful than astartes who conquer the fucking universe.
Thunder Warriors were less stable, both mentally and genetically.

We also don't know what requirements there were for becoming a Thunder Warrior, as well as the success/fail rate, compared to that of Space Marines.

Word Bearers, but not without being reduced to chapter size first. That includes any daemonic allies with them at the time.

> produce only half as much as Marines
> save budgets on armor, bolters, implants, etc
> equip all remaining Marines with plasmaguns as default with saved budget
> conquer galaxy faster and easier

Profit?

>equip all remaining Marines with plasmaguns
GETS HOT

I meant the 40k universe aka galaxy seeing as they fuck over the Eldar and orks and other in universe races.

true, and they may have had shittier armaments before the Mars treaties, but it is strange since the astartes tackle an unimaginably greater threat every day for 200 years. Why did the Emperor even need super soldiers to take Terra?

Sell me on Wolves, Veeky Forums.

Invest on thicker oven gloves I guess?

Horus Rising sold me on Wolves for sure. And Galaxy in Flame 'Wolves once again' scene too.

> save budgets
It's not a computer game, the emperor didn't have X spacecredits to spend each turn.

The people who cling to what was written in MoM as if it is some holy writ like the bible are hilarious.

But sure, chaos best stepdad and Horus was just a prank bro.

why wouldn't they, it's a gw sanctioned piece that deals with a lot of vague or non-existent lore. Also GW is making more and more lore choices that seem to comply with bl books now.

Other people had super-soldiers. Sadly they don't go into too much detail (Inferno basically re-hashes what we already know, in its fluff section on the Custodes), but the other warlords of earth had "techno-barbarian" soldiers of their own, and possibly worse things if some of the 'legends' about the battles are to be believed.

Whether the Thunder Warriors were just more of what Terra always had running around, or some kind of true prototype of the Space Marines, is unknown.

It also mentions that the Custodes were made even before the Thunder Warriors, but given the complexity of their creation (likely requiring direct use of psychic powers by the Emperor) and very small pool of potential candidates available, it's no wonder that they never became the main army.

>Space Wolves
I meant Space Wolves. Luna Wolves are the best wolves tho.

There's 10,000 of the custodes, which surely would've been enough to take Terra if they are superior to thunder warriors.

They're a bunch of cunts to everyone and everything. They act dumb but are actually smart but really they're wrong about that, they're fucking stupid. Their planet is some Dark Age prison designed to be so inimical to life that freaky shit like the Canis Helix has to be used to survive. They're too cool for apothecaries and librarians, but still channel an actual warp entity for power rather than twisting the warp itself like every other non-daemonic psyker ever. It remains to be seen exactly what this means, but since its literally what the 1ksons were doing, its probably wrong. They do have the whole executioners thing and over 300 confirmed legion kills, but since everyone's hush-hush about what they've done we don't know whether they've earned at least one victory or are eternal jobbers. They also have the Field Policeman Dredd, who is the law and doesnt afraid of anything.

Rules-wise, theyre a faster, weaker version of the World Eater berserkers we know and love, with run and charge mobility and cheap power weapons, instead of free chainaxes and millions of attacks. Their characters are average, the priests are nothing special and are mostly just a rehash of what they replace, their primarch's decently killy but will never ever lose a duel since nothing can ever hit him enough in a match to kill him before the end of the game. His oversized shitty resin wolves arent amazing, since ap4 doesnt cut the mustard even with rending.

10,000 by the mid-Great Crusade, which didn't actually start after the solar system had been conquered.

>inimical to life

and yet there are a ton of tribes who live above ground there and survive pretty well, with enough numbers to sustain one of the biggest legions despite selective recruitment, suggesting a population of some millions.

Also the Rune Priests thing is obviously hypocritical, but I think the difference is partly that they trap warp energy in fetishes and runes (same with whfb dwarfs) and they have nature rituals which basically limit their powers and temptation to draw power directly from the warp.

Frost weapons have some great rules and are fairly cheap and Geigor is a character every legion should have but doesn't. He'll be totally OP in zone mortalis.

>on Thunder Warriors,

We really dont have much info or fluff at the reunification of Terra but its quite heavily implied that it was a very difficult reconquest and inconsistent lore mentions Big E having to deal with Terra a few times long after the space marine legions came about.

The old earth nations also had massive armies of super enhanced warrors, psykers, archeotech and mutants. A few of the nations, the Emperor even had trouble subduing and had to resort to diplomacy.

He also had a far more limited resource base than the Great Crusade.

also presumably the lords of terra are members of some of those resistant factions and were probably about equal to the Emperor at the outset.

>Now there is even hinting that the Horus Heresy was among the Emperors cards the whole time as a means of quelling the Astartes.
>hinting
It was outright stated that he had a limited form of foresight (Eldrad chides him on it) allowing him to foresee basically all major events up to the moment one of the primarches turn traitor.
But he didn't know which one it would be, or how many, or anything that would happen up to the moment one of them turned.
Thinking about it, that would be an explanation for Angron. Using him as the sacrificial lamb, a warped, angry, bitter creature that coincidentally had a terminally short lifespan that turned traitor (and took his warped spawn with him) would be the best possible end. Further, it would explain the whole throwdown between the World Eaters and Space Wolves.

Forgot to mention, but the astartes were made for pulling off completely difficult bullshit attack plans, master every form of warfare and use combined arms with all elements of the Imperium.

The Thunder Warriors were basically crude thugs, similar to the other techno barbarians of Terra except with marginally better gear, thicker muscles and smarter war leaders. They prob would be illsuited for pulling drop pod attacks on a Tyranid hiveship or fast attack to cut off an Ork Gargant or support an imperial guard armoured push against a demon horde.

>The people who cling to what was written in MoM as if it is the sole piece of material dealing with the events it covers
user, the AoS thread is a few pages down, take your gross denial there.

I'd say for gross denial check out the whfb general.

The rune priests are still drawing their power directly from a warp beasty, which is bad juju no matter how you look at it. I suppose fetishes and runes might be protection, but i doubt that'll be good enough if the fenris creature wants to do something. Still though, they've been doing it for ten millenia by the times of 40k and arent all chaos spawn, so who knows whats going on.

Frost weapons are decent, despite their uninspired rules, and geigor is alright. I don't know about OP, a dread will fuck him up without difficulty and i never play ZM without usually two. I'm more scared of Hvarl Red-Blade

>The rune priests are still drawing their power directly from a warp beasty, which is bad juju no matter how you look at it
They directly admitted as such, so it's difficult to hold i against them when they said so from the word go.
> I suppose fetishes and runes might be protection, but i doubt that'll be good enough if the fenris creature wants to do something. Still though, they've been doing it for ten millenia by the times of 40k and arent all chaos spawn, so who knows whats going on
It works, user, I know it's hard to give Space Wolves any credit because you are nursing that 40k hateboner, but it doesn't apply here.