/STG/ - Star Trek General

It's more like a rollercoaster of good episodes and bad episodes as well as bad episodes so bad they are downright hilarious.
The next generation is a bit more consistent with the first two seasons being bad and the rest getting better.
DS9 is considered by most here the high point of the show, even though it is probably least trek of all the star treks (cast is mostly on a stationary space station instead of a ship trecking across the stars).
The latter two shows Voyager and Enterprise have few good episodes but tend to be pretty crappy over all.

Oh and the animated series is basically Star trek TOS 2 with the quality going around a bit again like with the original show.

I feel that you don't really understand Star Trek.

I always figured they started out fairly abstract. Like something that looks like an exosuit. But then some scientists decided to give them faces. Then a personality then so on, so forth. Not for any practical reason; just cause they can.

I understand that the crews are good, or at least try to be. But so much of TNG and DS9 was spent showing us that the UFP has a fairly tenuous grasp on individual rights. It's not an oppressive regime but it's certainly a disaffected bureaucracy. It often falls to individuals to fight for good within the system. Worf's step brother, Picard, Sisko. They have to fight for the Federation to see the error of its ways. And even then, a lot of good people just accept bad things.

A civilization of NEETs protected by a totally-not-military who spend all day finding new things to prod because fuck consequences and stroking their hypocritical enlightenment boners.

Some neophytes fucking about with the fabric of reality "for science"

Nice bait bro, still not gonna take it.

>5 nacelles

Trash tier, to be honest

And we're supposed to believe that the successor state to the USA doesn't have a robust culture of personal weapons ownership for sporting and self defense? I'd love to see that version of Star Tre/k/.
>"You can not invade Earth. There is a phaser behind every blade of grass." - some weeaboo Romulan
>civilian ships are heavily armed to repel pirates so the Nausicaans are extinct by Kirk's time
>none of the "colony in distress" episodes happen except the natural disaster ones
>The Maquis are pioneers and the cardies are Space Injuns
>DS9 becomes more obviously an Old West trade post and frontier fort
>this makes Chakotay's character extra silly

sky.easypano.com/panoramic-images/USS-Carina-Bridge-90837.html

Well this is fun.

>Starship troopers but with technicolor pajamas

No thanks

How about in EV suits?

Enterprise got pretty great in season 3 and 4.

Star Trek early on was about Roddenberry's weird concept of space communism and amazing fantasy. It got better when they started to address the ideas of different space empires butting heads

>>this makes Chakotay's character extra silly
Impossible

Does that mean that Voyager turns into F Troop? I'd have enjoyed it then.

Does Veeky Forums have hope for discovery? /tv/ doesn't but they hate everything. IMHO the cast is amazing so far.

We have hope in that we hope it will be good.

We expect it to be total dogshit.

Or that seems to be the prevailing noise.

I don't get the pessimism. Is it cause Fuller left? Big deal, he was just to set the stage. Cast is great, michelle yeoh i am really excited about

Because of the attitude that seems to be around its making in general. I think the ship itself sums it up best.

>What should we use for a ship?
How about this concept art from decades ago that was rejected for looking like shit?
>Yeah that's good enough.

I want to have hope for it, but aside from the cast, the leaks/reveals so far don't give much reason for that hope.
Some clarification/explanation about the things they've shown so far would be nice, if only to put an end to some of the retarded rumours going around.

>Does Veeky Forums have hope for discovery?

Discovery is DOA.

Casting aside, it's been fucked from the first. Not only have they set it in an era no one wanted to see, but in doing so they're setting themselves up to fail "lore checks" by faithful Trekkies much like ENT did. True to form, they've also gone overboard with SJW virtue signaling. That means we'll see message scripts that more resemble "After School Specials" than sci-fi.

Finally, CBS is using the series to launch their streaming service thus repeating the same mistake Paramount made when trying to use ENT to launch UPN. Not only will the series have to find it's audience, CBS wants it to lure viewers to other streaming series.

Discovery is already fucked.

>the ship
The worst part about this, in my opinion, is that we have somewhat reliable confirmation that the design has undergone some major changes, but they won't show the new design.
It's like they know that people are going to hate it but don't want to reveal it early enough to have time to change it again. So they're holding it back for a late reveal so when people shit on it they can just claim that it's too late to redo it again.

>they've also gone overboard with SJW virtue signaling
Haven't seen much/any of that since Fuller left. Makes me think that change was one of the better decisions they've made.

The cast is great; the people working behind the scenes- not so much.

Pretty cool, actually. Would like more of these.

Discovery sounds like it's running into a lot of the same problems that TNG did when it was in development. If CBS gives them a couple seasons to iron out the standard Trek growing pains then they'll be fine.

>SJW
Fuck off /tv/

I'm worried about it. There's been so many delays, setbacks and creative arguments that I'm afraid will get an incoherent crapshoot.

That being said, the cast is excellent and I genuinely want it to succeed. I don't want Star Trek to become an historic artifact.

>I don't want Star Trek to become an historic artifact
Of JJ Shit Trek

Nailed it.

One of the things I heard recently (but have not been arsed to go find a source or confirm) is that the production was having trouble with the toys and collectables side of things because the producers were pushing for a very nu-trek look and apparently that sells fuck all in comparison to the old style stuff so they were not actually wanting to get in on making merchandise. And given how notoriously expensive the Star Trek licence is on top of production and distribution costs, well it's not hard to believe that there'd be a noticeable financial risk if the newer style stuff just doesn't sell well.

>I don't want Star Trek to become an historic artifact.
Me either. The world could do with a decent sci-fi show which isn't about people just being assholes to each other. Though Star Trek has always been better at doing the whole people-getting-along thing when they just do it rather than make a song and dance about it.

>historic artifact

It won't. The licensing alone makes so much money that Paramount and CBS won't let it die for good.

The issue is though, can they make something worth watching, rather than:

>they have color coded uniforms!
>they have a viewscreen!
>they speak in technobabble!

Because if all they do is make a dumb show that looks like Trek, then it won't get any traction. And, with it being on CBS's streaming service, it's unlikely to even get a chance to grow out of its Season 1 teething problems.

And believe me, it's going to have teething problems in Season 1.

If it dies for another twenty years, fine. I can live with that.

Then they were fucking retards for not going with one of the other designs of ye olde 23c ships that people already like.

Like the comfy as fuck Pioneer or the Ranger or some shit.

Even having it be set on a by then antiquated Daedalus still operating on duct tape and spit would have had a certain charm to it with the right cast.

>One of the things I heard recently (but have not been arsed to go find a source or confirm) is that the production was having trouble with the toys and collectables side of things

That's a troubling sign. A very troubling sign. I was reading an article last year in either Forbes or The Economist on how "merch" is a good indication of how well a movie will do at the box office.

They used a major animated feature as an example - one I can't remember the title of, sadly - and how, after previewing the film, neither McDs or BK decided to pay the license fees needed for "happy meal" toys. A 2nd tier fast food chain got the license instead and lost money because the film tanked.

>And, with it being on CBS's streaming service, it's unlikely to even get a chance to grow out of its Season 1 teething problems.

That's probably the biggest red flag. Not the production problems, not the virtue signaling, not the constant redesigns, not staff turnovers, but the fact that CBS wants the series to launch it's new streaming service.

If Discovery doesn't pull in the subscriptions the suits think it should, the axe is going to fall sooner than later.

>Some clarification/explanation about the things they've shown so far would be nice, if only to put an end to some of the retarded rumours going around.
TFW they aren't stupid rumors but what they are actually doing with the plot and setting. Like Sarek being an alt timeline hotspot somehow where he was three different races but somehow they are all connected?
That's what I'm most afraid of that all the crazy ideas that we have heard about are actually facts.

Remember that TOS episode where Kirk invaded Romulan space under secret orders and stole their fucking cloaking device? I don't think any of the other four captains would have pulled anything like that.

Sisko and Garek started a war between the Dominion and the Romulans by straight up murdering a guy. Though that Kirk thing was pretty baller.

Hell, i bet Janeway started more interstellar wars in her time on the delta quadrant than all the other starfleet captains in beta and alpha quadrant through out history combined.

Sosko didn't realize what was going on until it was almost too late to stop things from escalating. The only real part he had in starting the war was not exposing Garak.

Can you name a good Season 1 Star Trek? You are right that streaming it is a mistake, it should have gone to netflix if thats what they wanted but not CBS is intent on fucking themselves over.

The only hope i have is if it lasts 4 seasons cause like all trek it will suck at the start and take 2 seasons to get good

But why is CBS trying to set up a streaming service? any businessman is going to tell you it will fail. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Prediction: Star Trek is the only critically enjoyed, not acclaimed cause they hate star trek, show that cbs online has. Will be cancelled soon cause they can't compete with netflix.

Not him, but TOS was arguably at its best in S1, when they were still trying new things to try to figure out how they were going to get out from Lost In Space's shadow. You could also argue S2 TOS was the best, after it had found its footing and niche. Neither of those applies to any of the other Trek shows, though a case could be made that S2 DS9 was at least out of the "growing pains" phase I would argue that DS9 found its footing with "Duet," and it was p. good from there on out.

They're not competing with Netflix. 188 countries are getting Discovery on Netflix.

It's just the U.S. and Canada that are getting stuck with CBS All Access.

Because retarded old executives are told everything's going digital and online, but they try to set up their own gated community because they're retarded and old and that's how TV was.

>Sosko didn't realize what was going on until it was almost too late to stop things from escalating.

Nigger please. He recruited Garak for fuck's sake. GARAK. And you want to believe he was naive enough not to think that some stone cold evil shit would happen?

That's like recruiting Lavrentiy Beria to run your secret police and then expressing shock when he smashes prisoners' balls with a sledge hammer.

Sisko knew damn well how far Garak would go. He just didn't want to know officially. He wanted plausible deniability so he could lie to others and, more importantly, himself.

"Well, I really didn't know he was going to murder a Romulan senator..."

Yeah, keep telling yourself that and you may actually start believing it, Benjy boy.

But delayed. I think execs should be shot in the head . Cause unless you release it to all countries close to the same time you fail cause people pirate or just lose care

>But why is CBS trying to set up a streaming service? any businessman is going to tell you it will fail.

You're asking me? Do I have a corner office at Television City? Do I tongue Les Moonves' balls weekly? Did my grandfather change our name from Shekelstein to Smithfield trying to get into that country club?

Any middle school Junior Achievement member can predict CBS' streaming service will fail and fail miserably, but broadcast TV is a rotting zombie and they have to keep the money coming in somehow.

After all, Shiloh wants nose job for her sweet 16th.

For real mate, from the bottom of my heart, fuck off from Veeky Forums and return to whatever circle-jerk, self-reassurance shithole you came from.

He hired Garak because he had connections in the criminal underground to needed experts to make the plan go as he stated and Garak can keep a secret. No, he really had NO idea Garak would play Benjo like a Banjo and have his own plan that required Sisko's plan to fail so that Garak's plan would work.

Then he was a naive fool.

Keep believing, Skippy, it makes the lies more palatable.

Ask yourself this, do you seriously think Starfleet Intel doesn't have a file on Garak several lightyears thick? And the same for the Obsidian Order? Nothing legally proven, mind you, just all the rumors, fragments, uncorroborated reports, all the usual intel gleanings. A list of all the dirty tricks, nasty bits, murders, muggings, and whatnot.

Sisko knows all about what Garak's old employers do, but he somehow doesn't think Garak will employ the same tradecraft? Sure.

>No, he really had NO idea Garak would play Benjo like a Banjo and have his own plan that required Sisko's plan to fail so that Garak's plan would work.

Sisko chose Garak because he knew Garak would still get the job done if Sisko's original plan failed. If his plan worked out, fine. If it failed, Garak would still find a way to complete the mission. Sisko just didn't want to know the details so he could continue lying to others and himself.

Sorry if I offended (((you))).

You can have an armed population without fascism, schlomo. Even in the first episode of ENT we saw a farmer in Oklahoma lay the smack down on a Klingon and some Suliban with a plasma rifle, so it's clearly something that changed after the founding of the UFP.

So is the Obsidian Order really better than the Tal Shiar, or was Garak just blowing smoke?

If they are not really comparable, then how are they significantly different?

The short answer is: We don't know.

The only Obsidian Order guy we see in action is Garak, where he takes out a bunch of psychotic special forces Cardassians, and then murders a Federation away team with only O'Brien and Nog as the survivors.

The others? We briefly see them and Enabrin Tain get their asses handed to them along with the Tal'Shiar as they fall into a Dominion trap and the Obsidian Order effectively ceases to exist from that point on.

Garak was blowing smoke, but not intentionally - he's a son expressing faith in the life's work of his father. The Obsidian Order is a two edged sword, and one edge always points towards the Cardassian people. They're half foreign intelligence agency and half secret police dedicated to a totalitarian edifice of The Cardassian State. The Tal Shiar, by contrast, seems to focus a lot more outward while letting Romulan politicians and the military scheme and plot against each other. I suspect a large part of the difference is due to the Romulan's 200 year standing animosity with the Federation - when your enemies are the next best thing to post-scarcity tech wizards with a stable full of surplus doomsday devices, it behooves you to focus your spy network outward.

I really think Garak was the most integent ST character. Even above spock.

High praise, i know, but no one else was able to navigate every superpower like him. He didn't calculate like data and spock, he looked at the long road as a pragmatic, not an idealist.

Garak was the smartest person in ST

It wasn't just that he did it either, it was the way he did it. He beamed over, ripped the cloaking device out of it's plug, beamed back and sped away. Meanwhile Spock fucked the Romulan captain and then kidnapped her. The whole episode was crazy from start to finish.

It was a huge win for the good guys.

There are crazier episodes. If I'm being 100% honest, my favorite TOS episode is "A Piece of the Action", just for how ludicrous it is from start to finish.

Star Trek should never take itself too seriously.

How many new star systems did the Ekosians gain?

At the cost of Sisko's soul, of course. But he can live with it.

Given that they're modeled on Nazi Germany? Probably none. They didn't have warp travel, would never successful develop warp travel, and will collapse under their own weight unless they reform themselves so much that they're no longer Nazis except perhaps in name only.

The "economic miracle" thing that Hitler pulled off was a sham, a magician's trick, that suckers who only look at raw GDP still buy to this day. Even a casual understanding of economics reveals that the whole thing was set to tear itself apart even if World War II hadn't done that for them. In fact World War II is the only thing that delayed it.

Hang on, I have a pic...

...

You asked, I answered.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great episode (in its own very silly way). I'm just saying that the Ekosians would be doomed from an economic (never mind moral) standpoint if they kept following Nazi ideologies. But though I forget how that episode played out in detail, I'm pretty sure that the episode ended with the Ekosian Nazi regime being overthrown, right? So it shouldn't be a problem.

Wouldn't mind a ship singing this as their tune

youtu.be/WOeYPpOblAw

So, odds that Fleet Admiral (You) terrorizes the Kelvin timeline in one of these? It seems right up their alley.

Did somebody say rest for the dead?

The Prime Directive fucking "Fuhrer" and the actually evil 2nd in command were removed from power. The attack on Zeon was stopped, but nothing to suggest that the whole Nazism thing was stopped as well.

It's almost like it's a reflection to judge American and more generally Western society's high and low points from 1967-present, user.

>there will never be a set of Excelsior deck plans

Eh?

Or maybe pic related.

Or this, though it isn't a deck plan.

About the Garak and Sisko thing remember that Garak was caught by Worf trying to make the Defiant fire on the Founders homeworld to destroy it. It's pretty clear from that how far he would go to achieve his objective so Sisko would have known how far it could have gone.

>overboard with SJW virtue signalling
>SJW
>in a show about a space commie utopia
>in a show that, from its very start, was being shat on for its diversity
>in a show where the latest bridge crew comprised of a woman, an injun, an oriental, a white fuccboi a nignog (who was the best character out of all of them)
>pic related

There's such a thing as too much. Discovery is jumping the shark at Warp 9 by all accounts, right when sentiment is starting to turn against the SJW stuff in the public.

What's happening with sci boats? I've seen EPG getting nerfed, but what about drain?

>Rift getting a slight buff
>SubNuke is now a boff power
>SubNuke is now a broader sci buff in general
>Boarding parties are helped by DrainX
>Target Subsystem is now more than just the shitty tagging-with-negligible-effect it was before
Seems all sunshine and rainbows to me - is there something I'm missing? What's wrong with Drain and Ctrl boats now?

>quietly mixed-race crews = SJW
It's only SJW when they go LOOK HOW DIVERSE AND PROGRESSIVE WE ARE! Look at our gays, women, etc.! Even Gene's smug 80's leftism wasn't SJW stuff.

>a woman, an injun, an oriental, a white fuccboi and a nignog
On one hand, even including Best Girl and the Doctor, that's still by quite a long way the most diverse primary cast I've ever seen, especially in sci-fi of all places. Granted, we saw precisely well it was handled by Chakotay's "BUT THE SPIRITS WERE ACTUALLY AYYLMAOS" episode(s), but still.

Plus, speaking on a broader scale, one of Trek's defining features about its attempts to be super relevant and topical to contemporary """""moral""""" issues, to the point of sacrificing plot and a lot of characterisation for them. We've had episodes on playing god, on "the greater good", on white human supremacists, even one with a fucking Q wanting to commit suicide. One of the best films was the one that was transparently about the collapse of the Soviet Union. Granted, things being shoehorned as fuck is starting to get tired, but I for one welcome a spess show with more than one token ethnic character .

>quietly

In terms of the humans yeah. Nobody in character made a big deal out of Sulu, Chekov, Uhura, Geordi, Crusher, Admiral Nechayev, Bashir, Janeway, Harry Kim, Travis Mayweather, Hoshi, or any other human Starfleet character being anything other than a white male.

Note that Sisko is not on this list for his WE WUZ OPPRESHUNS 400 YEARS AGO bullshit he brought up about Vic Fontaine and the 1960s in Vegas for no reason. It would be like a Jewish player complaining about a Stargate campaign over the Book of Exodus.

Shhhh... Sisko dinno nuffin' and dindu nuffin'.

Yeah, so the episode where an image of Lincoln shows up and talks about how slavery was bad and how black women are awesome never existed.
Or the episode that was banned in the south for decades because a white man and black woman kissed never existed.
Or Chekov frequently talking about how awesome Russia was and everyone taking it as casual banter during the height of Cold War tensions never existed.
Or Geordi being from the futuristic utopian dream city of Mogadishu, Somalia never happened.
Or the episode where Samuel Clemens shows up in the future and they talk about how awesome multiculturalism is and how everything's a paradise.
Or Janeway frequently being subject to stronk woman who don't need no man to the extent that they neutered Chakotay because they didn't want muh female captain to seem weak in any sense.
Or the aforementioned Soviet Union movie doubling as a race relations movie to the extent that it pissed off all the black actors that they were scripted saying stuff that was anti-black in the real world.

I'm getting tired of this dumbshit conservative myth that Star Trek was anything but unapologetic liberalism just because they like their pew pew space battles.

None of that post ToS stuff you're referencing ever happened.

All of it happened, plugging your ears like a child doesn't help.

Guess I just imagined that episode where Riker talks the alien of the week through a sexual identity crisis then.

I mean hell if we're bringing up sexuality then between Riker and Jadzia, Star Trek has made it clear that being a massive pansexual slut is considered perfectly acceptable in the future.

I've found that there are 3 things to watch out for in Star Trek.

1. Is it a sex episode
2. Is it an evolution episode
3. Is Riker beardless

if any of those are a yes then switch of the T.V.

Bonus points for Wesley centric episode.

...Was there ever a Wesley centered sex episode?