Okay, Veeky Forums. I'm getting weak. I'm SERIOUSLY thinking about getting back into 40k I used to play back when second edition was transitioning over to 3rd. Out of all the armies, I'm leaning more towards the Adeptus Mechanicus. Love the look and from what I've read the playstyle is very methodical and unrelenting. So, everyone. Help me out. Is this a good time to get back into the hobby or the worst? Should I avoid the mire, or can you recommend me the vitriol-proof underwear you so proudly sport? Or is someone secretly aware of some development that would proverbially seal the deal either way?
If it matters, I really like the gunline type army with a good counter punch for close quarters. But fuck the Tau. Used to play Eldar and Space Marines (generic) back in the day.
Pic Related: this fucker is what got my interest primed again. I'm probably going to buy it regardless because I want to build THAT and paint it.
Okay, Veeky Forums. I'm getting weak...
user, that is far too long for me to read- save for the last line.
I've decided after my Word Bearers (30k) are done, I plan on building my own Knight House. Just five good old Knights running around, kicking ass.
1850
Look the most important thing about 40k is the people you play with. Go to your flgs and see if you like the scene and the people. The game has more stuff than ever which is awesome, but some stuff is just OP. If the people you play with are in it for the fun, the games will be great. If everyone is focused on winning, the games will suck.
You might consider getting into the Horus Heresy. Basically 7th ed 40k rulebook but with Forge World's HH books (black books for fluff and the latest rules, which get compiled into red rules-only books every couple of black books) instead of codices, and more expensive minis (other than Betrayal at Calth / Burning of Prospero plastics).
It's better balanced and the atmosphere is more like 40k's used to be. 40k's gotten strangely competitive and unfluffy, and also harder to balance because of the increasing numbers of superheavies and flyers. They aren't bad in themselves, but in smaller games you can't take enough stuff to deal with every possible opponent. Oh, and people have gone absolutely nuts with allies (e.g. Space Marines with an Eldar Wraithknight because they're so OP). However, if you have a good group then this may not be an issue.
Oh, and 8th edition could drop this year and it might be similar to the 2nd->3rd edition change. One rumor said that Horus Heresy might stick with 7th while 40k changes over.
The game is fun, and the models becomes better and better (quality). Its not strange to get back in to the hobby with that as a foundation.
Don't get me wrong, its still 40k. Its expensive (like all miniature wargames) and its rules are up for interpretation every now and then. But all in all, I think its a pretty great hobby.
I'd second checking out HH the general has a lot of info for new/ returning players
>last played when 2e was transitioning into 3e
Daaaayum. You have been away a long time. I'm only about 2-3 editions behind myself, but that still means I'm not to useful other than to say go with what you think looks cool and fun to play.
wait until 8th
>the game is fun
More like the people you play with are fun.
>not being interested in playing tau
I hate you man. I HATE YOU
its an ok start. we might get a new editio soon, however so noone really knows whats up. This being said, i'd rather not buy rulebooks/codices now. you can find that in the 40k general threads.
if you want to start, GW has some save-money bundles, called start collecting. The admech one is worth it.
>ou can find that in the 40k general threads.
The links are not save
Op here. All good suggestions. Anyone know where I can score the models pretty cheap? I priced together a 1850 point army with that knight crusader and it game out to be 450.00. I'm not poor, but if I can get a better deal somewhere I'd like to save some cash.
>the models becomes better and better (quality)
+1
I'm the guy who mentioned being away for 2-3 editions earlier, and what brought be back was the Custodes, which I love the look of, and had basically been waiting for the Horus Heresy line to get to, so I could make an army of them.
And the plastic set they made for them is very detailed, and has very little mold lines, so I'm quite happy (though the frame could use a couple spare hands/arms).
At least 7E is more like 2E than 3E was.
Except of course when it comes to the detachment/formation army building clusterfuck.
If you're going for an Admech army, then you'll have some trouble finding second-hand stuff, but if possible buy from third-party retailers like Darksphere, they often have about 20% off. Currently just finishing my own War Convocation.
In the UK, I'd suggest Wayland Games (not sure about anywhere else, are they international?) which usually has 20% off across the board, Get Started! kits being £40 rather than £50, etc.
It has a lot of the convoluted rules, etc. but none of the charm. Plus it's at a much bigger scale, so the timewaste factor is much worse now than it was. Go back and play 2e, you'll see what I mean.
>At least 7E is more like 2E than 3E was
That's something that amuses me too, along with the Horus Heresy rules. We've come full circle and made the rules relatively complex again (though I got into 40K just at the start of 3e, so I only heard about 2e).
Things wouldn't be that bad if listbuilding wasn't completely impenetrable. 8th had better clean the detachment-decurion-formation nonsense up.
Wait until 8th edition to see what happens. The game appears to be going in a shit direction right now.
This is the most stupid mentality. I've been to multiple LGS including a GW and 3rd party. The GW is a vast majority of not all fluffy for fun players. The 3rd party being the polar opposite, almost all attending GT's . People at the LGS are all friendly (40k, not yugioh but magic is surprisingly tame) and don't mind helping someone learn. The GW is the same but these people are like 50 year olds who have been playing the same composition army lists for 30 years and still don't fully understand the rules. It's almost like a safe space for idiots, cheaters and the misinformed. Theyre never actually tested in ability. People from the LGS used to attend the GW but graduated in a sense leaving the socially retarded, children and one or two good people that never show up.
You play the same game for 30 years even when the rules change you don't learn shit.
elaborate please
This is the most important thing, and its also the reason I stopped playing. The tournaments around my area are too well organized, and everybody who plays, plays for keeps.
Ive managed to have some fun playing 30k, but that well is rapidly running dry.
appearently, a new codex is coming towards the end of this year, so maybe wait
OP you would love skitarii. A list consisting of dragoon/infiltrators/plasmarc vanguard/onagers with an allied Acheron would be really fun to play.
Playing Warmahordes for several years with a GW break was like coming back to a whole different hobby. The models fits like LEGO, and as you say, are crazy good details. Sure, the esthetics don't fit everyone, but the models are well made, theres no denying that!
That is an opinion you're entitled to.
Me personally have played this game since late 2ed, and I still love it. Its not the "best" in terms of rules, but its fun. Its got a deep lore, great models and fun. And perhaps this is all because my community, but Id like to think Id enjoy this game anyway.
Wait for 8th ed.
Wait until 8th edition drops, should only be 2-3 months now.
I was really expecting the freehand stuff on the shoulders and legs to end up being a loss joke.
Just play one of the dozen good games that exist nowadays instead.
Play DoW and some of the FFG RPGs first. This is the 40k equivalent of jerking off before making a choice annoy a chick.
>far too long to read
you must have the attention span of a retarded goldfish if that's your limit.
Don't be an idiot like everyone else here. 40k is dying. Why invest money in a dead horse?
Play a REAL Game, play Age of Sigmar!
The miniatures and the aesthetics are way better than 40k. Stormcasts are even bigger than space marines. The rules are the best on the market. No boring stuff, just 4 pages you can learn in 5 minutes. Best thing: You can play your whole collection at once on the table by the rules, if there is enough space :D
Honestly, if you're feeling that 40K itch, and you like Admech specifically, just get a group together and play some Epic. Then you can actually field knights and titans without putting your family into a cycle of generational debt. Unlike 40K, at least that game knows what it wants to be - it's not trying to be a grand-scale battle game with skirmish-scale minis.
I'm more of a hobby-oriented gamer, although I absolutely enjoy gaming with friends and/or cool people at the shop. I don't really go in for the hyper-competitive national tournament thing, but I don't think 40K is really the game for that anyway. I'm just finishing up my third company of epic-scale Black Templars, and it is infinitely more satisfying than trying to (hopelessly) capture that "big army" feel at 40K scale.
Things I like about Epic I like are it's a community maintained rule set with a more than a decade of playtesting, so it's pretty robust. It's also not backed by a business that needs to make $$$, so all game changes are made for the good of the game. And you can play it extremely cheap, as long as you don't commit yourself to acquiring super-rare long OOP pieces.
The downsides of not being backed by a gaming giant are (a) you never get any new official minis, and (b) you usually have to do some community building yourself, if you're not in a big city. The former one I'm OK with, since there are literally dozens of companies making sci-fi stuff in 6mm right now. The second one depends on your personality and community.
2e had its charm. Look in the mega for the old Shokk Attack Gun rules. It sums up what 2e was like pretty well, both the good and the bad.
>Why invest money in a dead horse?
This has to be one of the best idiom-mashups I've ever seen.
Indeed
>Then you can actually field knights and titans without putting your family into a cycle of generational debt.
>generational debt
>two knights for 195 MSRP
>a little more than half the price of a PS4
>GENERATIONAL DEBT
40k isn't honestly as expensive as people say it is.
People see it as little plastic toys and they expect it to be super cheap, but they fail to realize even shitty plastic toys cost a lot more these days, an action figure used to be what, $3? $5? For a Star Wars guy? Now they're like $15.
And just because they're small doesn't mean 40k shit is going to be super cheap. Even at current prices you can get an infantry IG or Space Marine for $1.50 or $2 a pop at MSRP. It's the fact that armies are so large now too.
So yeah, people will probably spend at least $300 on 40k. Some may even spend $1,000 or more. But what people fail to realize is that $1,000 isn't a lot of money for a working adult, especially for a hobby that easily lasts 10+ years. Spread the cost of your $500 army over 3-5 years and 40k is actually cheap as shit. Start buying used one eBay or Chinese recasts and the cost goes down even more.
40k isn't expensive. Period. Do you not find it worth the money? That's fine. Is your personal situation such that you can't afford to be splurging on 40k toys right now? That's fine too. But don't try to pretend 40k is expensive. A single fucking wheel for my car, let alone a full set of four, costs more than a 40k army. We haven't even gotten into the cost of the car itself, gas, tires, and other parts like coilovers, exhaust upgrades, forced induction, spoilers and wings, etc.
Considering both the nature of art and what that comic now means to people like you and I and whomever else here, I'd say it is a Loss joke.
Production molds on low tolerance injection molds are not cheap, and 40k is a niche product.
The production molds for Lego (another low tolerance injection molded plastic product, only far more mainstream) can run for as much as 80000 USD to produce, with the master molds (used to produce the production molds) being far, far more.
While I don't know the price of GW's master or production molds, I can't imagine them to be cheaper than the far simpler and chunkier Lego molds.
For most of their products, GW uses labor in the UK, which costs a lot more than China, and they have to ship the plastic all over the place. Logistics add up fast.
But there is another side to it too: 40k would be a much cheaper hobby if the community standard was 1000 points instead of 1500 to 1850 (for UK and US respectively). I personally find 500 point games a lot of fun
1500 today is basically 1000 back then. Current 1850 armies are more like 2250 points due to free vehicles and 200 point Riptides/WKs.
Back in the day 1500 points was like 20 marines, 5 terminators, a Predator, a Razorback, a Dreadnought, and an HQ.
Marines used to be 15 points each and have to pay extra for frag and krak grenades
so your statement that 1500 today is like 1000 back then.. actually it feels like the other way around, with formations and other freebies making it even worse (1850 now with free transports and other snowflake stuff would be closer to 2500-2750 back then - practically apocalypse)
While big games can be fun every once in a while, they take forever to play and really expose the stress points in the rules.
Space Marines used to be 30 points actually, back when the game was good
Are you in the UK? Triple Helix games do 25% off with reasonable shipping, which is better than most second-hand stuff on ebay.
>muh expensive molds
So how do all the little manufacturers manage to produce injection-molded hard plastic figs at comparable prices to GW but much, much smaller volumes? I'm talking about companies like Dreamforge, Kingdom Death, Perry Bros, Frostgrave, and countless historicals makers.
Yes, the steel molds are expensive, but they're not THAT expensive. Mom-and-pop operations are making hard plastics and somehow turning a profit. GW make some damn fine figs, but there's no denying that they're fucking us on prices.
Pic related. There's no way these sold even 1/10th of the volume of the least popular GW kit, but they're very nice, detailed, and precisely-made figs, and they come to about $4 or $5 a piece, which is competitive with many GW boxes.
the tolerance of the molds matters a lot in the price. I've seen those models, and although they are styled very well, they don't have anywhere near the level of detail or sharpness as modern day GW pieces.
With less fine details you can get away with much cheaper molds. Even Lego, with their extremely low tolerances, spends closer to 10000 USD on more basic brick molds, while the molds for the detailed specialty pieces run much much higher.
Is GW making a profit? Why yes, they are. Like any publicly traded company, their is the reason for their existence.
In terms of detail, GW's bigger competition comes from people sculpting molds and casting resin in their garage (not recasts, but original sculpts). With resin you can have very detailed molds for very cheap, like a few hundred dollars maybe for all the equipment for a complex several part mold, but the molds will begin to break down after just a few dozen castings. It doesn't work at scale, but it suits the volume of the smaller sculpting studios just fine.
>Mom-and-pop operations are making hard plastics and somehow turning a profit.
While I know nothing about the industry beyond what a typical wargamer knows, it should be noted that there are many inept startups that try their hand at plastic kits and produce an expensive, low quality product and promptly go under. The Perry Bros use Renedra for their plastics, and both parties are ex-GW and clearly know what they're doing (I'm NOT implying being ex-GW is significant, but rather that they are experienced).