He doesnt know how to do redeemed demon or to solve the orc baby problem right

I got some beer. You uh...you like beer?

If this an issue for your paladin, he's clearly worshiping the wrong god.

3.5 stopped being a thing 9 years ago, palifag.

>ironic

What if I told you that ironic shitposting is just regular shitposting?

Joke's on you I was merely pretending to bring down the quality of the discussion with my nonsensical and inflammatory drivel.

The joke is on you, beacue you failed to pretend.

Rolled 12 (1d20)

Or did I succeed in pretending so thoroughly that I forgot I was merely pretending and transcend into really doing it, like some sort of Daniel Day Lewis of shitposting?

Hellboy is also the blood heir to King Arthur and destined to SAVE the world.

Try uhh, NOT painting them with same tired brush?

They attack you, kill em. They start doing evil things (such as causing suffering or being conservative) and refuse to attempt to redeem themselves, kill em

other than that you treat them with same level of respect you would any other sapient being.

>They start doing evil things (such as causing suffering or being conservative)

Reality has a non-evil bias :^)

>orc baby problem
what is this ?

Oh hey, it's palibro!

Nah, I'm not into gygaxian-style '''''''good''''' that says the best thing to do with a reformed evil guy is kill him before he backslides. I was just making a tweaked-for-thread jab at the guy baitposting about calling conservatives evil. the full /pol/ version would be Reality has a liberal bias.

Sure, but he saved a lot of people on the way.

Considering it is the almost guaranteed end of every paladin to die protecting the innocent, putting his exceptional power to good use while consigning him to a literal dead end job ensuring he dies early long before he has a chance to apocalypse, seems like the greatest possible good out of the situation.

Being conservative is Lawful

>thinking annoying metanarrative solutions are better than getting it "wrong" in-character

Conservative says "benefit for the wealthy and traditionally valued, even at the cost of detriment to the poor or those that cannot fit those values." Selfishness to the point of harming others is textbook DnD evil, just as valuing tradition and authority over individual needs is textbook Lawful.
US Republicans are as iconic Lawful Evil as you can get.

That doesn't mean you arn't evil yo.

gets it

well, i guess i meant more of a 'Refuses to amend ways, and continues to be hostile, and is showing, without doubt, that they will have lethal intent'

I'm a martial pacifist, studied a great many martial arts for the sole purpose of fucking up the guy who wants to fuck me up. Show me lethal intent, and i'll put you under without mercy. and the third time, for the same thing, i've had to tell you stop being an asshole, i'll punch you. Other that that we'll be good.

actually if you've read the comics recently, the "twist" of Hellboy is that he indeed ends the world.... long long after everyone is dead due to other reasons.

him ending the world causes it to reset to a new beautiful world, and the souls of humanity reincarnate and have a paradise to live in.

this was always what Hellboy's demon-father intended when he had the Hand of Doom affixed to hellboy's hand, and is the major ironic twist of the entire series.

Hang on, is Hellboy finally finished then? I can download and read it from start to finish?

This.

The beast is not meant to end humanity but the Ogdru infested corpse of the world.

Ez, just kill them and don't give a fuck because you shouldn't care about alignment unless you're a Paladin.

Beer. We like beer.

Hellboy's own story is complete, but B.R.P.D is still going. check in on the Chronological Mignolaverse threads on /co/.They'll be able to provide it.

The orc baby problem is not a problem because orcs are not evil. Reminder: if you insist all orcs are evil, you're shitting on Tolkien's grave.

By dying before he could personally cause the apocalypse fucked over the 'plan' destiny had, giving Humanity fighting chance.

We still have the big finale of the whole Mignoliaverse but otherwise yeah Hellboy is done.

It's a hypothetical Paladin Falls scenario. The Paladin encounters an orc baby and must decide to kill it or spare it.

There is no way to "do it right" because it's an artificial scenario where the correct answer is whichever one you don't pick. You kill the baby then babies are always innocent and you've just forsaken your oath. You fall. You spare the baby then orcs are always Evil and you're facilitating all the wrong it will do when it's an adult. You fall.

It and similar situations are just a malevolent Kobayashi-Maru test favored by mean-spirited GMs who think they're teaching you some kind of lesson.

I never understood that kind of situation. Why would killing a monster babe make any Paladin fall? Monsters are evil, even their offspring. There is no evil in that, nothing to make you fall.

No, the apocalypse is happening anyway, he's just not involved.

>how to do redeemed demon
The being made out of pure, materialized evil stops being a being made out of pure, materialized evil and therefore disappears.

>solve the orc baby problem
Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study. They'll remain a risk factor regardless of good upbringing. Unless we assume the D&D universe is a behaviorist-Marxist utopia where man is utterly mallable and the Soviet Orc prevails above all.

So the orc baby problem is like the Veeky Forums version of the trolley problem, right?

And the B.R.P.D actually has a chance of stopping it considering Johann killed one of the Ogdru Jahad

Why not just, you know, ask your god?
>I fall down on my knees and grasp my holy symbol with both hands. I yell out the name of my god followed by "Please guide your servant gracious one. What should I do? Give me a sign!"

>An orc baby is born in a trolley, his mother dies during child birth
>The trolley heads for a spit, with five people being tied down on the trolley's current path and only one person being tied down on the alternate path
>You are traveling faster than light, therefore time and causality no longer apply to you and you can retroactively raise the orc baby. In other words, you will have tried your best to raise the orc as a good person before he is even born
>But you and your adopted orc-son have, due to messing with time-space, ended up in Plato's cave where you can only see the shadows of good and evil and not the eidolon themselves
>You can climb out of the cave, but you'll have to reach the top of Hilbert's Hotel to properly see the eidolon
>Hilbert's Hotel has an infinite number of floors, and construction workers are constantly building an infinite number more
>Halfway through Hilbert's Hotel, in room number infinity, you meet Jesus who directly states that the orc must choose the path where five people are tied down
>In the opposite room Plato asks if Jesus says this because it's good,or if it's good because Jesus says this
>Meanwhile Camus tells you to give up on ever reaching the top floor and to just enjoy the walk upstairs
>What path will the orc baby's trolley choose?

What I never got out of that was how is it an issue? I can just take it with me to church to a higher up, or call uo my god on a prayer. When you're part of his hand picked squad (paladin), you can do that shit.

Everyone is too distracted by hypotheticals and the barbarian smashes the trolley.

Does this prove Camus right though? Was the trek to the top of Hilbert's Hotel futile, meaning that finding enjoyment in its futility is the only way to cope with it?

I still don't know what the fuck is happening in the Hellboy universe. I wish it would just be consistent with its prophecies instead of like seventeen overlapping and contradictory ones. Really ruins the whole rebel against your own fate vibe the setting has.

I talk to the people bound to the track and redeem them if they are evil, thus ensuring their souls go to a good-aligned plane when the trolley runs them over. Then I kill the orc child before the evil inherent in his race can take hold. All these actions are LG and make more sense in-universe than any other option.

It has been incredibly consistent with its prophecies, it's just playing with the whole "prophecies are tricky things" trope.

the god of nonexistent dilemmas and moot points sees you've made a decision, a cardinal sin in his domain, and you are struck by his wrath.

nope, socrates is right, because the oracle told him so

This thread is silly.

How about Cuban cigars?

>using a shit edition for your "muh wife's green son" strawman
>not raising a dozen healthy human children instead of an ugly sub-80-IQ rapelet.

KYS

>They start doing evil things (such as causing suffering or being conservative)

Too obvious. Grima Wormtongue was a multiculturalist liberal, Aragorn was a conservative.

Asking your god is inaction in the face of Evil. You fall. Taking the baby to a Church means the baby is executed by them. You are complacent in the death of an innocent. You fall. Or they try rehabilitating it which is impossible because orcs are evil. It grows up and kills someone and it's your fault. You fall.

It doesn't matter what you do. The GM wants you to fall no matter what, so you fall. The orc baby is just a fake pretense

>I'm a martial pacifist, studied a great many martial arts for the sole purpose of fucking up the guy who wants to fuck me up. Show me lethal intent, and i'll put you under without mercy. and the third time, for the same thing, i've had to tell you stop being an asshole, i'll punch you. Other that that we'll be good.

You sound like a fat cunt and if you tried to talk shit about my Trump hat I'd put my 1911 in your face and laugh at the time you wasted.

It's not selflessness to take what others have gained and redistribute it. It's selfish not to work and to want another's profit. Commies GTFO.

How is asking for guidance Evil?
You might as well make the wizard permanently lose all his spell slots if he ever makes a non-magical attack.
You might as well make the Druid permanently lose all class abilities if they touch or are touched by a forged metal item.
You might as well make clerics lose all their spells and abilities permanently if they perform an evil act (why only Paladins?).
You might as well make all Bards lose their spells and performances if they sing a bad tune.
You might as well make sorcerers permanently lose their casting abilities if they try to cast divine magic.
You might as well make rogues lose all their class abilities and sneak attack if they don't steal something every week.
You might as well make Barbarians lose their rage ability if they act calm and rational in a stressful moment.
You might as well make fighters... actually fighters are already what happens when a class falls.

Why are you nitpicking me on this? I'm not defending it. Im just pointing out what the GM will say to these arguments. It's not a valid moral quandary by any standard. It's just the GM being a jerk because they think the fall mechanic is a great method of screwing with players.

forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ondonti

>Inaction
But I am acting. I am acting to perform exactly what my god wants in this situation.

So the orc baby exists purely to make Paladins fall. In which case, take the hit, and kill it so no other Paladins will fall as a result of its machinations, then go on a crusade to slay ALL orc babies, everywhere, to ensure as much conservation of good in the world as possible. Damn yourself to save all.

Also play an Eldritch Knight instead, they're fucking rad.

>You might as well make fighters... actually fighters are already what happens when a class falls.

Only in shit editions. Fighters are godkings in 4e and 5e. Pretending this is still 3.5 is done only for the eager of insecure Wizard players and greedy Fighter players who want more shit.

"Something something your god is displeases you had to ask about something so obvious. You fall".

I don't think you guys are understanding what I'm saying. These rationalizations I'm giving are intentionally flawed and half baked. That's because the GM who gives you the orc baby scenario wants you to fall and will say /anything/ to rationalize it. He will not hear any protests or justifications because in his mind whatever decision you make is the wrong one by virtue of him wanting you to fall.

Then I ask the GM if I can change my class and stats to a barbarian because Paladins were not obviously wanted in his campaign. If not I murder the GM in cold blood with the excuse that "If I fall for killing an orc baby I might as well get arrested for killing a man baby".

>fighters are already what happens when a class falls.

>be wizard
>have no spells left and being overwhelmed by goblins
>desperately strike at one with a dagger
>fall
>suddenly feel a tingle in my chin as my beard recedes into my face
>only have a moment to realize that without my conduit for mana I'll never be able to use magic again before the secrets of the universe are lost from my mind
>muscles bulge as I become capable of picking up a sword and wearing armor
>as I fight off the goblins I'm left wondering if it was worth it

The people actually making redistribution happen aren't the poor, they're always rich people of a different persuasion than their political opponents. The super wealthy are the ruling class in a liberal democracy, all political movements with traction have at least /some/ rich people behind them.

What if my god isn't a god of being nice?

"Your god is harsh but fair and does not accept harming innocents. You have killed a child for this sins of his parents. You fall."

The orc baby GM will move the goalposts as much as he needs to make you fall. is the only real answer to this kind of GMing.

>orc baby problem
Depends on the setting. If orcs are all evil (because fantasy setting), are made by an evil god to do evil or the players are only shown evil ones then killing a den of orcs shouldn't be any different from removing a wasp nest.
It's the GM's job to provide examples the players can base their conjecture on.

Solving the orc baby problem is easy. Solving where to dump all the orc baby corpses, on the other hand...

A sausage factory. Done.

Brilliant!

But what about the sudden outbreak of sausages poisoning the peasantry?

>peasantry
The strong ones will survive. Call it eugenics.

Hellboy doesn't know how to handle his circumstances, though.

So what the fuck did Hellboy do to deserve going to Requiem?

>implying HB has to do anything wrong in order to suffer

>implying he didn't go chasing nazi demon vampires to slap their shit

I think he meant that his character was defined by self sacrifice, and that suffering is part of what makes his character relatable.

So, I never really fully understood this in the movies, when he escaped through the portal, was it just by change that he slipped through, and there's millions of apocalypse-bringing demons on the other side of whatever portal they were opening up, and he was just a lucky (unlucky) one? Or, did the demons predict the portal being opened and planned on sending him through?

chance*

Just because he went to hell doesn't mean he still won't cause the TRUE apocalipse on earth. Many may try to cause sub-apocalipses (like rasputin), and some of it may happen naturally, but in the end it's still hellboy's destiny to bring the end of the world.

Hellboy is a demon. Calling demons from hell it's not that hard in that universe. The portal wasn't to hell, but to a plane where a chtulhu-like thing lives/sleeps, and that is problably much more dangerous than demons.

Don't know about the movies, but in the comic his summoning turns out to have been timed to connect with the angels of God smashing the lab of his father, who was grafting the Right Hand of Doom onto Hellboy. The angels destroyed it all, Hellboy's father died, but Hellboy got sent out into the Earth to survive.

>solve the orc baby problem

with an axe duh

Wrong. You follow the objectively correct code of ethics, Consequentialism/Utilitarianism, which completely removes all emotion from decision making. Therefore the right choice is to kill the Orc baby as it is most likely to grow up into a vicious adult Orc, and therefore be a net negative influence upon the world by causing further death. The best course of action is to kill it. Innocence does not matter.

>It and similar situations are just a malevolent Kobayashi-Maru test favored by mean-spirited GMs who don't exist.
Fixed some spelling errors.

>Implying he wasn't a victim of ogdru jahad who are the Masters of the Infinite.

>two hellboys

>mean spirited and incompetent people now don't exist

All orcs aren't evil, though, and Tolkien argued against any interpretation suggesting that.

>US Republicans
>a good example of a conservative party

>he doesnt know how to do redeemed demon
It's pancakes isn't it?

A Modest Eugenic Proposal, if you will.

The only misunderstanding greater than believing Swift was sarcastic in his work is that Machiavelli wasn't.

>All orcs aren't evil
Depends entirely on the setting, and the GM's homebrew where all orcs are evil counts as a setting.

>Tolkien argued against any interpretation suggesting that.
He said he was uncomfortable without he couldn't ratonalize them as anything /but/ Always Evil. He never found a way to suggest otherwise in the story and this made him sad.

Besides, what Tolkien says about his orcs has zero relevance to what other writers say about their own orcs.