/WFG/ Warhammer Fantasy General

> big enough
> in Warhammer

I'd be shocked if there wasn't.

I can see Goblins being the Orcs air force on the ships. I'll assume they got Doomdivers in the expansion set?

Probably doesn't mean much, but I'll post this here anyway.

From 2016.

Still means something may be on the horizon, at the very least maybe a boxed game.

It's just trying to sell the license - which they are more than willing to do now. If they can make some money off of a Karl Franz action figure over bringing back the tabletop, they'd probably try.

Why not, I'd probably buy it.

Hey GW, get in touch with NECA.

I want a Guilliman bodypillow, to bask in the glory of my spiritual liege.

One of my problems with Warhammer Fantasy is that you spend ages painting great looking miniatures and organising them in a unit for that unit to be picked apart and removed. I can't be arsed with it.

I like in kings of war how the unit is a representation block.

I also dislike the non standardised unit formations. Its retarded and promotes power gaming opposed to unit movement and generalship. I again prefer KOW regarding this.

What do you mean by non standardised unit formations? I too enjoy kings of war but can't seem to find the full rule book anywhere, however I prefer the customisation that is possible on war hammer, if only there were some way to combine the two.
Out of curiosity, did anyone play triumph and treachery in 8e, how was it? Anyone got the rules. In pdf?

For example :

Troop 10 models 5x2
Regiment 20 models 5x4
Horde 40 models 10x4
Legion 60 models10x6

Instead in Warhammer you get then random numbers wide and random numbers long. What that means is instead of having 4 units of 20 to manoeuvre and surround an enemy people use powergaming to simply lump them all together into a big kill fuck unit of 80 so they do not lose an advantage of dice. It's sad and diminishes the game.

20 skaven slaves are useless

80 skaven slaves are a competent unit that still not so great.

Big units are usually tarpits, not deathstars, because big units can be evaded relatively easily, are expecially vulnerable to magic and are very susceptible to flanking.

If your opponents fields 50 saurus warriors or chaos chosen in a single units, simply laugh at them and run circles, he won't have enough points to efficiently control the battlefield

In a game without objectives, battlefield control is fucking useless, in order to win the game, you will have to fight that massive deathblock eventually, skirmishers wont do nearly enough damage in the amount of turns available and artillery is effectively immobile so you will either have to abandon it to death, or get in the way and get torn apart in melee.

Skaven slaves are the worst example to use, because they ARE extremely more effective in hordes because of their morale bonuses and the fact that they are so dirt cheap that you can also buy a ton of other stuff. And then there is the fact that weight of attacks is supreme in WHFB, with a mass of S3 attacks being better than a small number of S4+ attacks

Slaves are worse in hordes than in normal ranks because they'll lose their rank bonus extremely fast, thus degrading their already shit LD, and good luck if they ever lose steadfast by being outranked.

mass of s3 attacks are better only if the receiving target has both:

1) t3. From t4 onward you lose a 16.5% effectiveness to wound
2) Either no armor or 1+ armor save. Every point loses you an additional 16.5%

So, say, 30 attacks at str3 vs 15 attacks at str 4, against a T3, no armor target:

50% of str3 wound, this leads to 15 wounds. 66% of str4 wound, this leads to 10 wounds.

You have a 33% difference in wounds inflicted with a 50% difference in number of hits. If your target has even light armor and nothing else, the number becomes 13.5 for str3 and 10 for str4, reducing the proportion even more.

As you can see, yes, if you have double the number of attacks, you might have an advantage. 5-6 attacks more? nearly useless.

Also, battlefield control is extremely effective in WHFB. Siege machines are worth around 100 points each one. A deathstar is often worth five to seven times that withouth the heroes in it.

If your opponent deathstar marches to your warmachine(s), you're gaining points. You're effectively making impossible for that gargantuan point sink to earn it's value back, while your machines can snipe at other targets.

You do not need to kill their deathstar to win the game, you need to earn more points than your opponent.

Skirmisher are not for killing big units, they're for monster and warmachine hunting (expecially with poisoned attacks).

You use cavalry, expecially resilient one, to shred deathstars, or you use those convenient lores that are designed to cripple such units.

A 13th, or Dwellers, or Final Transmutation on a 40 man deathstar with multiple heroes inside? Congrats, you've won the game.

A deathstar losing turns to a 30 point redirector placed in front of it? You're getting points, he's getting token prizes and getting out of position.

Skavenslaves are a good example precisely because of what you said: they're designed to be bought in big blocks, there's no powergaming implied in them. The game is not "diminished" by it, it's something they were created to do. Same with zombies or any massive unit.

Deathstar hordes only work in certain armies (most notably Delves) and against specific armies (such as VC, which have a very poor magic phase with regard to melting units, and no ranged phase to speak of).

Which is the problem with WHFB.

Any decently built VC army can just block a deathstar with some spirit hosts or bats.

The problem with WHFB is that big killy units often bite in the ass the owner?

How is that a problem?

Depends on the deathstar, magical ones will shred thorugh them like they're not even there.

Bats are awesome redirectors, and they're pretty much a must have against any kind of deathstar

Savage Orks would probably use crude rafts, paddle extremely fast with their hands and try to board enemy ships head first.

Anything that can't be delayed by a spirit host can be delayed by 50 zombies.

>Orks
GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
GO BACK TO 40K OR SHADOWRUN OR WHERE EVER THE HELL YOU CAME FROM

It doesn't matter how dead killy they are, spirit hosts placed slightly behind eachother directly in front of your unit will force you to charge the first, then as you inevitably win the first combat due to ranks and banners, overrun into the second. Congrats, your 500+ point block is stuck there for a turn at almost zero cost.

Meanwhile he is raising shit everywhere and probably cursing the fuck out of your trapped unit.

Why just 50 when you can throw 80 at them?

If he charges and overruns in his turn, chances are that in your combat phase he'll kill and overrun (or test LD to restrain from overruning) those ghosts too, which means that in his next turn he'll be free to move and/ or charge, potentially gaining ground

(however if his deathstar has no magic attacks, a flank charge from a spirit host will mean a stuck deathstar for at least 2 full turns)

Just throwing this out as a wild idea, have more ghosts?

It's not like they are expensive, you can hold them up for as long as you want, with them moving about an inch a turn. How much would you pay for an item that just stops an enemy unit in its tracks?

Even worse if you can manage to get a flank in with some raised zombies or more spooky ghosts, nothing more humiliating than running from ghosts.

It's certainly doable, but it's rather hard to pull off.

Zombies are easier, and while they might cost you a bit more, they're far more infuriating to plow through and are not so dependant on positioning. A zombie flank charge can potentially mean you'll win the first round of combat, or lose so few models that the unit itself will last at least a whole turn more

What are some good damage dealers for a no-wight no-vampire VC list?

I do not know exactly. I just have grievance with the style of play.

You would prefer a big romp where players smash thr biggest units they can field into eachother?

No. As I said. More standardised unit formations so the game is actually played with a variety of different units opposed to a big kill fuck dump lumb in the middle and misc random units. More like KoW.

are there any dirt-cheap peasant/civilian minis?

probably to make WHFB video games

>make us more shekels goy
>oh and you can't mod your games.

Anyone has any stories on how they discovered the hobby?

I first saw WHFB over a bit longer than 20 years back now. Visited a friend from out of town with my mom, never really knew him at all.
Anyway, so the guy wasn't even home when we got there, so I had to wait in his room, and I saw this... well this toy soldier (a dark elf warrior), standing on his desk. Been playing RPG for a better part of my youth I got interested when he showed up and told me about this magical world where each player gathers an army to march on to the fields of battle. He showed me his painted stuff, and some army books as well, and let me tell you guys. Living in an age without Internet, and the best (as far as entertainment goes) was the NES, if you where lucky enough to have friends that owned one.
We already thought we had it good because we played RPG´s, but this was an entirely new league of hobby.
Needless to say, my jaw dropped and my brain exploded!
Coming home, I jumped the phone and rang my closest friend, and he got just as excited as I was! Luring him with me the following week, we where both introduced to a fully painted Lizardmen army, and my 13´ish year old body just could comprehend that much awesomeness! We went home and jumped the phone to our current GM, and he was like "meh...".....

A bit later of "fuck that guy" arguments, we go the starter set for ... 3ed I think it was... not really sure, It had brets and lizardmen in it at least. Showed up to our GM´s house and watched the magic, as his jaw hit the floor just as soundly as ours had!

Now, many years later, Im the only guy left in our little group that still takes the hobby a bit serious. But we still meet and chat about the good´ol times. Man Id like to re-live those feelings again, in lack of a better word, it was fucking magic in the air!

>playing mods for medieval 2 total war
>big into third age total war.
>some guy had made a mod that ported reikland from call of warhammer into Third age.
shit was golden.

Alright guys, rate my list:

(2000)
Heinrich Kemmler (350)

Krell (205)

283 Skeletons w/ Full Command (1445)

you need at least 3 units for a legal army

other than that - don't forget to hide in a bulding

Are Lords and Heroes not units?

My homebrew again. I've added rules for runes which appear to only use the simplest rules for armor without accounting for using the more complicated rules for armor.

>Leather Armor is a myth
pure leather armor is a myth, but leather was used to reinforce a wide variety of things, among them clothes/armor.

Gloves/Boots are almost exclusively made of Leather.

Found some mention of it on the internet, watched some battles on YouTube, then my brother, a friend and I went to the FLGS and bought our first units, cold one knights for me, empire great swords for my brother and tomb King warriors for my friend. Came back a bit later and bought island of blood. Started playing soon after.

Reaper Bones.

Only if by themselves.
But you don't want to do that.

This wasn't such a big problem in 3rd to 6th edition because the units were still only 20 to 30 guys... then 8th added horde and steadfast and it was just a race for the biggest unit.

Rate my Mono-Nurgle list:
Sorcerer Lord - Lore of Death - Lvl 4 Wiz, MoN, Flaming Breath, Dispell Scroll, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Potion of Speed, Palanquin of Nurgle.

Festus the Leechlord

Exalted Hero - BSB, MoN, Helm of Many Eyes, Dawnstone, Halberd, Poisonous Slime, Barded Chaos Steed.

2x 5 Forsaken

20x Chaos Warriors, Full Command, Gleaming Pennant, Halberds, MoN.

2x Gorebeast Chariot - MoN.

5x Chaos Knights, Full Command, Ensorcelled Weapons, MoN.

The Sorc Lord and Festus joins the unit of Chaos Warriors (who are formed 5 Warriors wide as to allow for Festus to hide in the second rank) and the BSB joins the Chaos Knights.

What do you guys think? Any comments, tips, help and/or critique are highly welcome!

Forgot to add that the total point cost comes to 1992.

Vargheist, Terrorgheist and Black Knights in some scenarios but usually people use them as a Vampire delivery system.

Why no Vampire?

Be very very wary of any army that has a powerful magic phase, as they can and will ruin your day. With only 20 chaos warrior they can easily hold back their biggest spell and pester them with various magic missiles. Skaven expecially tend to do that since they got stupid amounts of extra dices and mages.

Dwarves (an any artillery-heavy lists) can and will ruin your day, as they can both kill your chariots and obliterate your warriors.

Also, very important, it's unlikely you'll have a magic phase in the first turn, as you'll be out of range for most of death's spell.

Alright, I dropped the Skeleton unit to 267 and grabbed 2 minimum sized wolf units.

See, this is why Warhammer was cool. Every faction had a niche, if that was 40K you probably would have all bought Space Marines.

Heroquest was what got me into Warhammer. It was well before my time but my brother found a copy on the internet and bought it to relive the good old days and inside there was a 1992 advert for Games Workshop, even with the old as fuck paints schemes I was hooked as soon as I looked at it.

Yeah I would maybe think about dropping a chariot or a unit of forsaken and aim towards two units of 17 warriors with a hero in each making them 6 x 3, but that's juts my opinion. Whatever you do, the opening salvo from some armies will be painful.

Thanks for the input. What would your suggestions be regarding changes in the list?

In regards to the reach of Death Lore I tend to manage fine if I go for the the bigger versions in the firts couple of rounds.

Seems like a prudent thing to do, my only gripe would be that it would leave Festus vulnerable as his survivablility is quite atrocious, but I could always replace him with generic sorcerer, or even try my luck with him in the front rank. After all his capability to make the foe drink their doom is always fun.
The second gorebeast chariot, aswell as the second forsaken unit is pretty much included due to my lack of imagination, as I failed to come up with anything to replace them with that would necessitate some fiddling with other units.

It's not a particularly interesting story, but year 5 teacher in primary school was heavily into scale modelling of shit like planes, boats, tanks and all that shit. As an 11 year old kid I thought it was the coolest thing ever and picked it up myself.

The city I lived in was bisected by a river and people north of the river (which was where the only Games Workshop was) tended to have little to with people south of the river, so I never came across Warhammer until high school. I did see an ad for LOTR on TV once which I thought looked cool now that I think about it, but nothing ever came of that. I went to high school in the CBD and became mates with a lot of guys from the north. I went over to one guy's house and saw his 40k armies (I think it was just the Battle for Macragge starter set plus a few more marines) and took an interest in it, since it was like the scale modelling I was already doing. He lent me his rulebook and Space Marine codex, which I think was the 5th edition one and it had just come out, and I instantly got hooked on the universe.

I spent the next three or four years constantly painting, stripping and repainting some Tau, Witch Hunter and Dark Angel models I had collected. My friends and I would talk about nothing but 40k when at school.

I would have been about 16 when me and my mates decided to branch out into Fantasy. I always found Dracula cool, so I bought their army book and immediately fell in love with it. I still liked 40k, but Fantasy really scratched that itch for me, it took all the things I liked about fantasy settings in books I'd read and mashed it all together in a single universe.

Towards the end of year 11 I fell out of love with wargaming thanks to increasing school work. I later felt the urge to go back to it two or three years into uni, but I fucking despised where GW had taken 40k so I decided to focus only on Fantasy. Age of Sigmar happened a few months later

Well forsaken and gorebeasts are both good. I'm not sure what to do about Festus, you could stick them both in the same unit but it's a lot of points.

Lore of Death is very strong, but it's best on a mobile hero, so for example you could switch your bsb and general

Pretty similar. Finished uni a year after AoS hit. So I just fucked it off and started Fantasy.

I want to do a list that represents an independant necromancer, who has raised a small army and is building himself a little fief in the Drakwald.

That's not a too shabby idea! Will have to consider it.

Yeah the huge point cost of my warrior unit is something I've been burned on a couple of times.

My Uncle was into miniatures a bit and had left a stack of old White Dwarfs and some 6mm historical figures at my grandparents house which I used to read and play with when I was little.

One can only wonder what will impress kids of tomorrow though. My soon to be 4 year old son is already using my HTC Vive, it will be hard for this already slim hobby to survive tomorrow I reckon.

why no wights? They are just another controlled undead (most of the time) just a bit more able to react independently than skelies or zombies

Wights are the ancient dead primarily, and I want him to be using mostly fresh corpses.

a boy me and my brother were friends with was painting tomb kangz one day we went to see him as kids
Many questions were asked and after many talks got our dad to take us to the only GW in the country
I got some 40k orks and my brother got a daemon prince and khorne berzerkers
Painted them over at the boy's place using his paints and glue

I was really young at the time so mine looked like a mess, boy helped my brother paint his prince (or did it for him) so that looks pretty good
Many years later i got some fantasy orcs and more years from that elves

There's a spell for raising wights in the WHFRP rulebook that explicitly says that it can only be used to raise the corpses of those with an advanced career so there is nothing stopping Wights from being created from the fresh corpses of those sent to stop him.

Remade my army-list (1999p):

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - Lore of Death - Lvl 4 Wiz, Flaming Breath, Dispell Scroll, Helm of Discord, Talisman of Preservation, MoN, Barded Chaos Steed.

Festus the Leechlord.

Exalted Hero - BSB - Scaled Skin, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Sword of Striking, MoN.

5x Forsaken.

16x Warriors - Full Command, MoN, Halberds.

18x Warriors - Full Command, MoN, Shields.

Gorebeast Chariot - MoN.

5x Chaos Knights - Full Command, MoN, Enscorcelled Weapons.

My BSB and Festus will join the Warriors with Halberds and my Sorc Lord will join the Chaos Knights.

I don't know what models I would use for skeletal empire elites.

If I were you I'd throw a unit of Grave Guards into a box of Empire Greatswords. Seems like it could make cool kitbash.

so what part do the forsaken play
Bullet sponge?

Redirecters/skirmish-chasers/flankers/potiental glass-cannons.

My experience with forsaken are that they are useful for various purposes. People tend to not pay too much attention to them which, in combination with their fast speed for infantry, make them useful flankers. If you get lucky they can also dish out an enormous amount of pain which is always handy. They are also cheap enough (atleast in regard to other chaos units) that you won't cry too much if they get destroyed early on.
Their purpose on the battlefield is usually dependent on what enemy I face and the general layout of the battlefield.

Sounds veey expensive. I'm not to fond of Grave Guard anyways, I'll use a terrorgheist as my damage dealer, or maybe a Varghulf.

I'm always wary of flanking darts, I've witnessed at an adjacent table to my own where a Marauder cav dart got routed turn 1 by archers, it fell back through a 30 block of Warriors which promptly failed their panic and the re-roll and ran straight off the table.

The look on that poor fucker's face was heartbreaking especially when the laughter of those watching drew in everyone within earshot to have a look.

I always try to make it so that my flanking units can reliably last at least 1 turn even under fire.

Seeing as people are rating army list, what do you think of mine? 1250 point, going up against empire. My opponent usually likes to field a big block of spearman/ halberdiers +- 40 strong supported by an arch lector, cannon, warrior priests and some empire knights & 20 great swords on the flanks. How do you think this will fair?
Supreme Sorceress Level 4
Dispel Scroll
Talisman of Preservation( Lore of Shadows)
Core
5 Dark Riders Repeater xbows
Shields
Standard Bearer
5 Dark Riders Repeater xbows
Shields
Standard Bearer
13 Dark Shards Shields
Banner of Swiftness; Stanadard Bearer Musician
Special
8 Cold One Knights :
Full command; Razor Standard ;Sword Of Might
War Hydra:
Fire Breath; Fire Spears

Heh, that sure is a lol-worthy scenario.

Gripping beast dark age spearmen.

>be 12, 14 years ago
>friend tells me about Warhammer
>we buy a bataillon each, him brets, me empire
>expand our armies
>play a lot at the local gw store
>play a lot against each other
>both win painting contest
>one year late we fight side to side in storm of chaos
Bros before chaos

This is really what I would dream of doing as a kid. Sadly it was just me and my two friends having at it with our never finished armies on a friends moms kitchen table, placing VHS cassettes as scatter terrain and plants as forest terrain.

Years go by, now Im the only guy actually engaging the hobby as a whole. I play less than I would want, but at least I play painted with serious hobbyists that really wants the games to come alive with fully painted terrain sets, and armies!

Same thing happened in one of my games with a friend of mine. I shot his dog screen, panicked them, and they fled through his big knights block with both his wizard and his BSB. They fled off the table turn one before he had even moved.

We re-racked and played another game, after much laughted. He hasn't painted those dogs to this day

Did the empire ever go through a roman empire phase or something similar? i find it hard to believe they transitioned from manly barbarians to Pajama wearing halbediers in just one generation, and then conquered most of the old world as said pajama men without any gunpowder weapons or wizards. but every source on the ancient empire seems to have them very similar to modern empire except without guns.

What exactly do you mean by "a roman empire phase"?

>they transitioned from manly barbarians to Pajama wearing halbediers in just one generation, and then conquered most of the old world as said pajama men without any gunpowder weapons or wizards.
They never went through a roman empire phase, and they never conquered most of the old world. They conquered barely anything at all, the vast majority of the territory was alreaddy part during the foundation of the empire, and only some small parts were gained in the Border Princedoms, but lost again to various causes.

And Sigmars Time is closer to the Dark Middle Ages than Pre Roman Europe. They went through a early and high Medieval phase, which is where the Skeleton Warriors armor and equipment is drawn form, the Bretonnians are stuck at the High to Late Medieval Tech level the Empire went through aswell, and Sylvania was stuck in the Late Medieval phase when Vlad took over, the VC Armors being reminiscent of that Era.

It's hard to pinpoint it with Dates since they aren't all that consistent, but it's clearly implied that the Empire went through the Motions of the HRE.

Well you have to assume their culture and modes of dress changed over time broadly in line with real history, and ignore the odd outlier like Mark of Chaos that gives the Empire volley guns in the time of Magnus the Pious. Though you can probably justify a slow rate of technological advancement by the fact that they're getting most of it from the dwarves, who are categorically opposed to innovation.

Any Roman styling would come from Tilea, who never became a political power to match the Roman Empire but nonetheless seem to have transmitted some of their tech, language and religion to the north. At least in the RPG there's a language called Classical that academic characters know and it's hard to think of it as anything but Latin.

One of the only significant things we know about Empire history is that there was a good three centuries where it didn't exist, and the second reik formed after the great Chaos incursion is as yet younger than the period of interregnum. It probably doesn't have much in common with the Empire of Sigmar at all, except roughly contiguous borders.

the Empire as a coherent Political Entity didn't exist, but it's Counties didn't change in the last thousand years or so.

but it is rather fickle compared to the other Nations in the Setting, the Empire is barely even two generations old by Elven Standards, and a few more for Dwarfs.

Compare that to Nehekara which lasted a tad longer than that without breaking apart completely and you see why nobody really puts much trust in it.

I think people will always love miniatures and wargaming but you're probably right that the boom years of the 80's and 90's are behind it.

Wargaming is a growing market, but what you're seeing is companies broadening the horizon to get the computer generation involved, so simple rules and immediate gratification. Which does immediately put me off but it does feel like it's getting watered down to nothing but expensive toys.

It's weird to think what would be abnormally long in our world - even the nearly 1500 years of Bretonnias existence is stretching the bounds of what seems possible - is young by Elven or Dwarven standards.

I prefer it to the other list.

Warmonger Miniatures (Fantasy arm of Foundry) has release some new (old) Dwarfs. Pretty good for anyone wanting Imperial Dwarfs.

warmongerminiatures.myshopify.com/collections/mighty-dwarves-of-legend/products/copy-of-dbs01-veterans-pre-order