Shadow War Armageddon General /swag/

Well, as I am interested in your point of view; what part of the Necron team puts it in parity with say; Dark Eldar.

One of the teams has their rule of standing back up on a 1-3. Pays 80pt for their leader with almost no added benefits; no additional stats, guns or loadout options. Their Troopers have 2 guns, 1 which is better than the other. Their warrior and specialist doesn't get that option. Not one single standard model can take melee weapons as an option.

The other faction can tak fewer models but gets heavy bonuses on the one thing they're supposed to do; charging into melee.
They are partially immune to pinning, enemies get -2 to shoot them, no falling damage, can walk, run and charge through walls, wound everything basically on a 2+ regardless of toughness, has and fear and an 4++ save innately.

I want to express that they more or less ignore Falling, pinning and tactical movement which are supposed to be some of the few key mechanics to this game. Also that factionwide 3++ invurnabillity save.

Tl:dr - You asked if I understood parity. I just want you to clarify how this can be considered balanced.

Has any one got any pics of what there terrain ended up like, did you just copy the plans or did you decide something else was cooler.

Or if you are not too hot on the GW terrain what does your own game board look like.

Please stop this "Necrons don't get melee weapons" thing. They come with a combat blade ffs.

summoning seems really strong
summoning 2 deamons every other turn on average means you'll probably increased your team size by 50% on turn 4 and with the way those deamons are in 40k and the way melee is in sw:a they're gonna be really strong to , consider just dropping the daemons, making them a seperate specialist (if a single scion can be a specialists then a deamon can be to) or making it a one time summon like grots and adding a cache reward if the deamonsor the sorceror are destroyed and d3 caches if both the sorcerer and daemons are destroyed

Is this sarcasm?

No.

harlies are just broken to all hell so that's not really a point of reference for your necrons

that is harlequins you're comparing them to, not dark eldar. harlequins, the most busted team right now.

Until you idiots start to use granades ?

ah yes the st3 sv-0 weapon with 9-12 inch range that can't pin them will surely stop them

Good idea, lemme just drop some toys to add grenades to my Pathfi- oh. Oh no.

>grenades
>-4 hit chance so it scatters wildly
>pin your own guys while harlies laugh it off.

which grenades are those? the frag grenades that can't pin them and you'll scatter with because you'll miss them, or the krak grenades that you'll miss with even harder?

Yes, to allow melee combat RAW everyone starts with a combat blade.

Necrons are one of the few factions that does not have the option of taking more blades for more attacks, more guns/pistols for more attacks, and no armor pen and no special abillities in CC.
>This is only counting the standard models, not the Spec-ops.

>Their Troopers have 2 guns, 1 which is better than the other.
You mean the tesla, right? Same strength and pretty much same price but tons of shots?

keep in mind the krak grenades still don't pin them since they're only st6
also the fact that if you're in grenade range you're in harlie charge range

That IS a legitimate point.
I'm just a tad rustled a guy actually doubtet my abillity to comprehend the word "balanced" when i mentioned that Necrons get a 30pt "you're always in partial cover" toy when everyone get the "ignore partial cover" tool for 15pt (half cost)
That and necrons only get 4 toys total.

- Ignore partial cover (Photovisor)
- Walk through open terrain (Like harlies, but worse)
- Shrouded (partial cover)
- Mindshacle (Exchange shooting for enemy Ld test -1, on failure you get to use his weapon for a single attack.)

Don't forget the "unwieldy" special rule krak has which gives it -1 to hit, amounting to a -3 BS vs a running harlie.

the ogryn breaks this actually since with the grenade launcher/slab shield he doesn't have a melee weapon

>everyone get the "ignore partial cover" tool for 15pt (half cost)
But it only works if they don't move at all.

Frag with large template that wound on 4+ and left them with 4+ save. Oh and even if you miss it would have to be horrible scatter not to hit any of them. Of course you can just overwatch with flamers. Or any weapon because thy dont get -2 when charging. ...

Or you can play this game in you head rather then a table - I cant help you - even psychiatrist lost hope

guard doesn't get it
also photo visor doesn't work unless you stand still
the partial cover thing still isn't great though i'll admit

It's 5 points more and trades rerolling to wound and -2 save mod for sustained fire. It's mathematically worse in almost every situation.

What does AM get that ignore partial cover?

you have to stay still to ignore part of cover with photo visors.

everyone is assumed to have a knife even if they don't have anything. in the hand to hand section of the armoury it says all fighters have a knife in addition to anything else. So even if you end up with no combat weapons, you always have a knife(it's basically your unarmed option)

Can you shoot a fighter who is already pinned? If so do they stay pinned for the following turn as well?

wow you're dumb
1) a harlie who is in grenade range is in charge range, at this point it will be best to run back and get outside of his charge range to delay a turn
2) even if you do get a shot of he's gonna have ran and probably will be in full cover to since he ignores terrain anyway , so that's a -3 on your to hit
if you miss the frag there is only 1 result on the scatter die that will still make you hit, a 2 since you have to centre the blast marker and it's only got a radius of 2.5 inch, so a 4 is a miss, a misfire is a misfire and even if you roll a direct hit you still scatter

It has 66% chance of firing more shots but you forgo the wounding re-roll and the -2 armor modifyer.

Tesla has a higher chance of hitting, granted you actually roll well.
Gauss has a better chance of actually woundig with every shot.

Mathwise gauss is already doing more wounds per attack if we average the tesla to 2 shots per attack, but with the shooting talent that gives any basic gun Sustained Fire 1, it actually makes the Tesla obsolete in every single way.

strangely enough the ripper gun is specially mentioned to also be a knife but the grenade gauntlet doesn't have any sort of melee
also that wording would imply all normal models have 2 knives

Please rate my GSC Kill team, it needs to be able to take on a camping skitarii list, wych cult and orks without getting rekt.

Leader: Autopistol, Chainsword - 160pts

2 Neophyte Hybrids, Autoguns - 80pts

2 Neophytes Initiates, Autoguns - 140pts

2 Heavies: Heavy Stubber, photo visor - 410pts

2x Neophyte Initiates, autopistols - 130pts

1000 points

>1 in 4 chance of doing anything to a harlie
>Who's within charge range
>after managing to hit them with a -2 to -4 penalty
Yeah, I guess if you roll perfectly then Harlequin teams are easy to take down, thanks user!

Oh, the "standing still" thing is actually news to me. Sorry bout that.

That also makes it worse for the necrons too though, but at least the shadowloom just got better I guess?

Will I be called a faggot for playing my Tau in this?

Are they any good?

Oh, I didn't know they rerolled to wound as well.

I don't personally mind WIP posts as long as it relates to SW:A. I like seeing what everyone is making without having to go to multiple threads.
To me this is ALL things SW:A

not really, melee is really strong and while tau have good shooting, they're lacking in range so it balances out

yes

All great points!
Back to the drawing board

people hate tau because of Battlesuits and formations. In Shadow wars your just playing pathfinders so youre effectively blue Imperial Guard with less weaponry but markerlights

yep. see in necromunda dudes didn't come with their knife explicitly listed in their shit, but they still had it because of that clause. becuase of copy paste and them explicitly listing knives in all the normal profiles you get that kind of weirdness. The intent is obviously "everyone has one knife by default no matter what, unless they buy more knives"

Yeah, the necron guns are solid, don't get us wrong. But they have -no- options.
Their Reqruits, Troops and specialist get 1 gun each. They are likely born with the gun and will finish the campaign with that gun.

S5, -2pen and re-roll failed wounding is nice. But there is no grenades, no missiles, no templates, no high impact weapons, no sneaky armor bypass and no CC.

Grenades only scatter half distance. The distances iirc are - 1 2 3 4 5, I believe - counts as no distance?

Have you added up those points right?

You've got numbers and some firepower, I see no problems.

I have a similar GSC list, but as usual I couldn't resist the allure of shiny toys.

>Leader + Bolt-Pistol + Power Maul
>Heavy + Seismic Cannon
>Heavy + K+F Grenade Launcher
>Neophyte + Autogun
>Neophyte + Autogun
>Initiate + Autopistol
>Initiate + Autopistol

Less members more firepower. The plan is to upgrade the Initiates with Bolt-Guns and Chainsword when possible and get a third Heavy with a Heavy Stubber

Oh, and the Specialist's only weapon is strictly worse than the Trooper's gun with, 6'' less range, 1 less AP and no re-roll wounding.
All for the benefit of costing 10 less points total from the Trooper.

>Oh, they also have the abillity to be forced to teleport into play Turn2 within enemy charge range. You better hope they didn't huddle up in preparation because if they did, your assassin will both get shot and charged, disabling the Necron faction abillity.

ah yeah fair enough
still only gonna hit on a 1 and 2
and keep in mind all of this if the harlie doesn't have a wall to hind behind that he can conventiently walk trough next turn

Looking at the skills they can learn... they can't buy pistols? but they will be gaining a skill that allows them to fire two pistols at once.

I gotta pity the guy that rolled a 3 on shooting.

Hrm.. I quote Necromunda: "All fighters carry a
knife at the very least, and are assumed to have one tucked out of sight if the model itself does not include it."

Serious question, do models grant the models standing directly behind any sort of cover bonus?

I mean there is a rule that says you have to shoot the closest model, but if the closest model is in partial cover; can they just shoot the model right behind him at no penality?

(Shadowloom item treats you like you're in permanent partial-cover, even in open terrain.)

you roll 2 dice when gaining a skill and choose which one you want

At least you get 2d6 pick 1, when rolling for skills.

Harlies can't walk through walls. I thought we settled that yesterday.

Sure and then thay charge you with S3 and kill you all to death. I know that little Chucks of this world want to whine so go ahead.

Oh yeah I'm not saying it'll help against harlies.

I'll load up on 2 plasma rifles, a plasma pistol and a flamer and krak grenades and sustained fire overwatch them next time. Hopefully 5 plasma shots, a flame template and heavy damage grenades will...... help.

I mean, they help conceal the models behind them right? That's how I assume it goes.

yep. which is a more long winded/older way of saying the same thing.

cover is based on line of sight and how much of the model is obscured to the shooter, not terrain. Can you not see the entire model? partial cover. can you see less than half of the model? cover.

"A fighter with a flip belt treats all terrain as open ground for the purposes of movement, but can’t end its move on impassable terrain"

RAW this means they can.
RAI this implies they can with the "but can’t END its move on impassable terrain"

Am i reading the armor modifier rules correctly that the choppa does not have a save modifier, because it doesnt have one listed and you use base strength of 3 to calculate base armor modifiers?

choppa has user+1 for strength. that means you get a +1 to strength when using it, which also means that since it uses your strength you get the armor mod for strong

I'm not as scared of Harlies when my Neophyte Leader was able to charge with a Bolt Pistol/Chainsword 4A (had an initiate also charge and go first) I took out a Troupe Master, so it can be done...I mean they're only toughness 3 for pete's sake.

And "impassable terrain" does not include walls.

And common sense says it's ridiculous to even suggest the idea that they for some reason turn into ghosts by wearing flip belts.

So a power claw has a -7 modifier?

nope it's user strength
the chopper strikes at user st+1

so a choppa has no mod on a boy?

To be fair there are also a ton of variables. He didn't have a sword so I parried his 6, plus a fumble giving him an 9 Combat score. I rolled two 6's plus my WS3 and the +1 for multiple combat...so my CS was 11.
each weapon is Str:4 so wounded on a 3+ and he happened to fail both saves.
Then I rolled a 2 + 5 on the injury chart and if you go down in single combat you're out...so BOOM! Dead Troupe Master.
I then went on to kill a Mime. My Leader is a beast! (and lucky)

So, what are you saying? Walls aren't terrain?

>common sense is whatever benefits me most!
Use your imagination, forge the narrative.
maybe they did a cool flip up and over it? Maybe they leaped and daintily flew through a small hole in the wall?

Making a wych cult. No idea what to arm then with. Little help?

Yeah a model RAW cannot "climb" more than a 2" barrier. Which is why Tyranids specifically have flesh hooks allowing them to do just that.
If Harlequins could do the same then their rule would be written like the Flesh Hooks

Pistols and poisoned chain hooks, there is no reason to use anything else.

he hits with s4 using it. s4based on model str is a -1 mod to armor. the weapon has a -(dash) mod so it adds nothing on top of the -1.

Is SW:A even getting unique models like necromunda had?

yeah re read page 42
you have the base model's strength which may or may not add a modifier , this is added on top of the weapon's modifier
basically a choppa is st4 ap -
a boy which gets st4 trough an advance has st 5 ap1
that's the way i read it anyway, otherwise you only get the rend if it has no st modifiers at all

>And "impassable terrain" does not include walls.
Anything taller than 2" is impassible terrain.

Ergo, walls taller than 2" are impassible terrain.

choppa on a boy is s4(3+1) sv-1(s4 is a -1)

no it doesn't
it specifically says use the models strength

>mindshackle scarabs are now a shooting attack thing

Is this what it's gonna be in the new codex? I mean it's a step up from paying points to cause fear.

So I started up a SW:A game with a friend. He murdered my Skitarii as his Harlequins.

I come here later to find that Harlequins are the most broken faction, something my friend had no idea of (as he just fuckin' loves Harlequins, and wanted to play them before even seeing the rules).

So how the fuck do I do anything to them? I can't hit them, I can't melee them, and I certainly can't pin then.

seethe choppa does not modify the boy's base strength

flamers?

at what point do you draw the line?
If there's a 6" wall and he's in base contact are we saying he can move 11" on the other side...
OR that he can go up 6", fall 6" and end his run in base contact on the other side?

new fag here..

so, confirmed I can put a telescopic sight on a plasma gun right??

Skits don't get flamers.

Flip over a wall, yes. Pass through a wall, no. Is that so hard to understand? And if anyone is bending the rules to fit what benefits them the most here it's the one who choose to interpret the rule as "harlies can pass through walls".

you sir, are wrong
>Choppa (includes wrench)
User +1

the weapon modifies the model's strength. which means the the attacks with that strength have a higher save mod.

He can move through impassible terrain, he doesn't have to go around it.

...

>A fighter with a flip belt treats all terrain as open ground for the purposes of movement, but can’t end its move on impassable terrain
It's plain as day, their rules effectively allows them to move through walls.
Just imagine them as flipping over it or something if it triggers you.

Or, just don't play against them in the first place, harlequin players are already shaping up to be massive WAAC fags that shouldn't be allowed in to any reasonable gaming group anyway.

This guy is fucking retarded, just avoid fags like this and you'll be fine ----> >Harlequins can teleport through walls now

Walls are not terrain.

Deny reality and call anyone with a differing opinion a retard if you want but it's not going to change the rules of the game, just refuse all games against harlequins if you dont like it.

Or just bully them in to playing with your houserules.