Warmachine/Hordes General

>namefag
>projecting this hard
>calling other people retards

Fucking everything.

Of course it's a lot better. While I end up shelving some models between editions, it's not like GW where you are literally forced to buy new models because your old ones are no longer legal themselves, have illegal wargear options, or do not follow proper WYSWIG rules.

Have sprays only require the initial target to be in LoS. Then we can get rid of this whole immersion breaking crap where a model 3" inside a forest is hit, but everything else downstream is totally fine despite sprays ignoring walls and other forms of cover. Something like a house, obstacle, or structure, I can see.

you don't need LOS to spray any model other than the one you're, it's just that you can't spray completely through a forest or a building.

*you're targeting

apparently I had a stroke half way through that post

>replying to ad hominem with ad hominem
>replying to "suggest a constructive rules change" with "SCRAP THE GAME ITS SHIT"
Real hot contributions towards a productive discussion there, eh

Rework Cygnar read: Haley2, Storm Lances and a couple of friends in such a way that they aren't guaranteed starting board control and a devastating alpha against every goddam list

That's my issue though. I can understand not being able to spray through a building because it's large, solid, and there's no room for stuff like fire to lap around. But a couple of trees should not protect you from getting roasted like the heathen you are.

tl;dr I hate playing against Wormwood and I can't seem to beat him with my Amon/High Reclaimer pair. Really wish I could just burn his stupid feat to the ground.

Best thing to do with a wreckage is scrap it. You can try fixing the dents, the wheels, try adding decals, but nothing's gonna change the fact that the ride smacked itself into a ditch. The entire thing is too slapped on and each "fix" is yet another paint job fix on a wrecked vehicle.

The whole game needs a skorne tier fix and at that point, you might as well trade in. It doesn't help that PP has no way to manage CID well, considering they can't even maintain the forums. Sure, pagani is there, but he's but one man.

The fact that the only discussion worth having are rule changes is an indicator for how fundamentally messed up things are at a base level and everything ties to everything else.

Severius 1 is always agood starting point.
A Redemmer and especially at least one Reckoner and Devout are a must. For Units the Flavor of the Edition ared Idrians with UA. If you want good support for cheap with two shield guards take the visgoth Roven unit.
If you take Sevi1 please get Blessing of Vengeance for him. Its more or less an autoinclude with this caster. Malekus is also quite good if you have flame weapons. Also for solos: get vassal mechanics and vassals of menoth also the covenant and the monks are good too.

Nerf Journeyman and Haley2.

Give a slight buff to some of Cryx's infantry, and to a large number of non-Khador warjacks/warbeasts, to make large base lists even more viable for factions that don't have Harkevich.

Literally everything else is fine.

I'd remove those 2 pages of terain LoS rules and replace them with a single sentence aong the lines of "terrain blocks LoS as if it were a model of a specified base size". I hate this goddamn mess of an existing rule with a passion, mostl because it is NEVER used.

It's not just a couple of trees tho. it's a Dark Forest of Evil Trees. Probably stout Oak, the kind they made warships out of. After breaking upon the rocks of a couple of nature's mightiest guardians perhaps your puny flame should go out! :D

this post is so far from reality it's crazy. Is all this anti PP shit posting done by one guy?

>Is all this anti PP shit posting done by one guy?
For as much as I dislike that kind of paranoia, you are probably right. The timeframes, the posting styles, it all just fits too well.

It seems somebody's plan to move to Guildball or whatever didn't work out. I wonder if it's the same guy that basicaly posted his agenda of ""overthrowing"" PP on the new forums.

It's very obviously one guy.

There's only ever one of them at once. They have all the same retarded, insane arguments. They have all the same responses to being rebuffed or disproven.

There's no real question that it's all the same dude. The real question is where he came from. Is he an AoShitter who got buttfurious when he saw the recent sales figures that put Warmachine above AoS? Is he a Cryxbabby who is gravely insulted by the idea that he'll have to use his brain this edition? Is he an indignant Infernal who can't handle the sinking of the only place where people listen to him? This we can never know.

Koslov looks like fun. That said, fuck these new battlebox plastics, the injection and mold lines are a god damn nightmare.

Well, it must not be me then because I don't even know/care/play AOS. There must be more people then. Although given how slow these things move there might only be handful of people total left.

I didn't play cryx, nor did I start a new game beyond shadow war Armageddon last week.

Chill. It's ok to cling to shitty things, just don't delude yourselves into believing that what you are clinging onto isn't problematic at best.

They aren't new. They just have dyes in them

>but your gameis probelatic!!!

Then go play Armageddon. Or talk about Armageddon. Or jack of to Armageddon. I don't give a shit. You will be happier there and we will be happier once you are gone.

Fair enough. I haven't started a new army since Mk I so all I remember are their old shitty pewter.

Get Idrians and UA.

Get two Redeemers to go with Tristan.

Get a Reckoner.

With those added to what you've got, you'll have a lot of options open up. The Reckoner is the default warjack for most casters, and the Tristan boat (him + 2 Redeemers) works well with just about anything. Idrians are one of the (if not *the*) best non-cavalry infantry unit in the game.

How are you playing Amon? I tend to mulch him with Amon since I can stop basically all of his spells, and counter-feating and trampling through his feat, while not negating it, does reduce its potency.

He runs mannekins up, uses hellmouth on my jacks to group them all together, and basically whittles down my lights a little bit at a time or just assassinates Amon. It might just be my list though. What kind of list are you running?

I do. Rarely. And no, I will not be happier there, nor will you be any happier. Apparently there's more than me so you'll have to deal with those.

Yeah, the lack of the khador gap was a welcome change. It's back on their resin models, so have fun with that.

If it's the same guy as a few weeks ago, he was the same guild ball shitter.

I found I was initially concerned about the Woldwyrds, but with two shield guards they don't do as much damage as you might think.

Haven't played GB since season 1. Although I hear it's pretty good now.

Also new teams on horizon.

The list I run up against doesn't have Woldwyrds. He runs this:

conflictchamber.com/#bo1b5v5K4Q4MdH4kbF0U5e5e5f5f

Circle Army - 75 / 75 points

!!! Your army must include a Steamroller objective.

(Wurmwood 1) Wurmwood, Tree of Fate [+27]
- Ghetorix [21]
- Megalith [20]
- Pureblood Warpwolf [17]
Gobber Tinker [2]
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4]
Wrong Eye [17]
Farrow Bone Grinders (min) [5]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Shifting Stones [3]
Shifting Stones [3]

is the Khador Command Book up yet?

Wurmwood becomes a lot less scary to Amon without Woldwyrds, since he can't punish you for using Fortify against his Hellmouths.

What are you running?

conflictchamber.com/#b21b_-0d171S1S1U1U1q1q1q1q1r1L3C3t3t3z3z3B3B2_30

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] The Creator's Might

(Amon 1) High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza [+29]
- Castigator [12]
- Castigator [12]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Dervish [7]
- Devout [9]
- Vigilant [9]
The Covenant of Menoth [0(4)]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Vassal Mechanik [1]
Vassal of Menoth [0(3)]
Vassal of Menoth [0(3)]
Wrack [1]
Wrack [1]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Choir of Menoth (max) [6]

I might just be bad at the game. What is your fortify target? The Indicter?

conflictchamber.com/#b51b0G4E0w3y3y3y4L0w4k752V31

Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points

(Kaelyssa 1) Kaelyssa, the Night's Whisper [+29]
- Banshee [18]
- Hydra [15]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
House Shyeel Artificer [5]
- Hydra [15]
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4]
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]

I want to mix up my Kaelyssa list and was thinking of something along the lines of this one. Can I get any feedback on it?

The Indicter is typically the Fortify target, yeah -- moves it up to ARM 23, and Sacred Ward on it protects it from spells even when I switch to the choirboys singing Battle.

I periodically consider swapping it out for a third Templar to get the extra Shield Guard and another jack with the extra inch of threat, but overall I'm pretty happy with my Amon list.

And I'd suggest trying him with an 8+ heavy list at least once (I mean, at least proxy it once....). I strongly prefer stacking heavies, as there's a lot of stuff that can do significant damage to a Dervish that will do a fraction of the damage to a Crusader (or Templar, or Indicter), and thus is usually harder to be "whittled down".

That Wurmwood list has a lot of heavies that can't quite kill two Crusaders a turn, and no (reliable) way to move them outside of retaliation range. I think the full heavy version would do a lot better.

I might be wrong, but I think a large reason why this community is shrinking is that tabletop gamers like options.
This game doesn't allow for any of that beyond paint scheme.
Players really want to make their armies unique and you simply can't do that in WMH.

Rather interesting.

I've always wondered, is the Hydra + Phantom Seeker thing actually good?

I've killed Iron mom with it before, so if your opponent forgets about it, it can be good

Remove Belphagore from Bethayne and make him a normal character beast with a Bond for Bethayne that grants the Metamorphosis effect. Then give him a spray or combo strike or some reason to exist.

The weird thing is Guidball is right up there with Arena Rex when it comes to a side wargame since you get can get a handful of models and be "done" with it.

There's no reason for there to even be a fight in the first place.

Huh. I guess the Hydra does have some use, then.

I wish there was a way to make it function better without Kaelyssa. It's actually my favourite looking Ret warjack.

Well you could go with the jack marshal build like I did. Load it up with 3 focus that it keeps between turns, when you want to attack Lanyssa or someone like Thyron allows it to charge for free, you use concentrated power to give it +2 melee damage, and you choose Crush as the marshal ability. All that shit results in a P+S19 warjack with 3 attacks and 3 focus, you can also use smash and grab to headbutt if you need a bit more damage.

I'll give it a go then next Wednesday at my club night. Thanks man.

That didn't stop mkii's success. mkiii was just poorly done at every level by the people in charge. It's going to approach its first year soon and it's still playing catchup to what it needed to be.

Nice try. We've been recovering for a few months now.

I'm almost glad the Mk3 launch was so terrible. It weeded out a bunch of shitheads.

>mfw the troll has to reply to himself out of desperation

This is the best shit.

I never want this guy to leave, his one-man crusade against Warmahordes is top tier quality.

>There's no reason for there to even be a fight in the first place.
Precisely. I'm happy for the actual GB players, they seem to be having a lot of fun with their game. Not my cup of tea, but who cares. It's the shitposters who think that GB is their super sekrit elit club that are a blight upon both communities.

>got my trollbloods whelps today
>5 models
>only came with 3 bases
This doesn't seem right

2 are meant to go on your Mountain King ;^)

PP parts replacement is really excellent though. send them an email and they'll sort this out for you.

Sounds like a mispack. You can either go through parts replacement or ask around for bases. There's usually at least 1-2 players in any given community who own a shitton of spare bases. I know because I am that player.

>(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Tiberion [22]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
- Despoiler [19]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

Reminder of the glory of the Skorne.

Mine turned out really well! My northkin shaman was sort of a mess though

Grymkin will dominate ? Go !

They'll more or less do the equivalent of a pubstomp. People who've played them before or have experience in general will be fine. But newer players, or those who haven't played them will get faced with "gotchas".

They'll kill people who don't have their pairings set up to deal with either a Neighslayer/Dreadrot spam or Piggyback jam. The only warlock they have that's really a headache is the Heretic, the rest have answers that you can play into. Once you learn how to bait Arcana to where they do nothing until you've done what you want to do, or make your opponent eat through clock, they just become annoyances. Time will tell if the good stuff in the faction is enough but right now they seem like a flash in the pan.

No one is samefagging

Also have a (you) since these generals are so fucking slow

Been playing Menoth since Mk1, so hopefully this helps.

The new battlebox isn't that great, honestly, especially if you don't want Malekus. Repenters and Castigators are just bad (the former being gutted by Choir no longer providing hit buffs and the latter by virtue of not being able to Combust on charge) and Revengers are usually lacklustre. Only casters who really want arc nodes (both Seves) are better suited by Blessing of Vengeance.

Get Idrians with their UA. They are currently the best unit PoM has and see frequent play with most casters. Second unit choice should be the 3-man character unit Visgoth Rhoven. Learn to love them, even if you don't really need Eyeless Sight. The unit is good because of two extremely good Shield Guards, not because of Rhoven himself.

As for jacks, Reckoner and 1-2 Redeemers are a must. As odd as it seems Redeemers are one of the better anti-armour choices, since with choir buff and full load of focus (from Tristan) they will scrap heavies doing three boosted POW14 hits each. The problem is getting them to hit, but Reckoner + Aiming will get you up to RAT5, which is enough to hit Khadoran steel on 5+.

As for solos, Wracks and Hierophant. They'll have their place in most of the lists you make in the future. Allegiants of the Order of the Fists are also extremely good right now, being very self-sufficient and hard to remove. That makes them perfect zone holders in the current SR.

>Been playing Menoth
>since Mk1
IT'S PROTECTORATE REEEEEEEEEEEEE

What about all those people who make fluff-accurate marine chapters?

I think warmachine suffers from MtG syndrome. It's highly competative and no one wants to loose so the best meta gets figured out quickly and if you want to go big in torunament you just have to fallow it.

They are few and far between and playing 30k the obscure version of 40k no one plays.

I need to buy a token set. Muse on Minis, Broken Egg, or some other option?

Alright I think my next purchase then will be tristan 2, if only to give me a different playstyle while I buy the reckoner and redeemers.

Any other jacks that are good to have multiple of then?

And like MtG, it's best played in small, casual groups where the meta is less vicious, instead of at big organised events.

A good modeler/devoted fa/tg/uy uses green stuff to do up his models to look differently. While the warcasters are named characters, there is nothing stopping you from making the infantry and jacks your dudes.

For instance your unit of stormblades without the UA is lead by Sergeant Simms, a noble who is working his way up the ranks.

Paladin Dominus has gained much honor by taking down one of Cygnar's warcasters, while he never got the killing blow, his heroic strike against General Nemo won the battle of the black river.

Topper the Grolar warjack has lot of affection by the warcasters who use it. It gets so excited when it has won the field of battle it unbalances itself and falls over. The dings and dents are just seen as a side effect of a powerful warjack.

Make of this game what you can, there is nothing stopping you making it about your dudes besides lack of imagination.

Hving used Muse tokens for most of Mk2, I have to say: Go with standard PP or selfmade tokens. It's more flexible and you have to carry less stuff around. And you don't have to buy new tokens everytime something in the game changes or is released.

So the BANE CID is starting in two weeks. What can we do to help warriors, knights and riders?

It would be very painful.

Eyes on Trollbloods: Pupils or no pupils?

I use the Muse tokens, and like them, although honestly they're not a huge upgrade over the PP ones.

I had a set of the Broken Egg tokens. My review of them is "fuck Broken Egg".

- They came with the really fucking obnoxious backing material still stuck to the acrylic, which I had to peel off of every goddamn token before playing with them (Muse tokens do not come this way), and it was stuck on in such a way I could either chip the tokens using something like a hobby knife to get the things started or shred my fingernails to get the fucking things off.

- They're only printed on one side, and black on the other. The Muse tokens are two-sided. I found out that the Broken Egg tokens were one-sided when they arrived.

So, fuck them. Get the Muse stuff if you want fancy tokens, but don't be in a hurry to do so.

Do warriors need help anymore?

I just bought the muse stuff. DGI's $50 free shipping kicked in when I added a pack of those base stamps Jay so lovingly shilled at the beginning of the latest episode of Chain Attack.

Honestly, I'm too lazy to make my own tokens. Hell, I'm too lazy to finish my brickwork bases I've been working on, and the stamps sounded like a less time intensive procedure than laying the bricks on the base one at a time with modeling paste as mortar as I've been doing.

I'll still end up using the PP tokens for stuff like power up or journeyman focus just to have different looking tokens representing things.

>Do warriors need help anymore?
The Minifeat on the UA could do with being changed. It's not all that useful - most of the time if you're taking Bane Warriors, it's because you want to smack up Warjacks and Beasts, so a minifeat which encourages you to kill infantry (in an infantry-light meta) doesn't do a whole lot.

Cannonically, they have no pupils (or, rather, they do, they and the iris are just also white).

UA costs too much. 4 or 5

Why are they having a CID period for a few fucking units? Half of every faction needs a complete rework and they're focusing on 3 cunting units for a while?

fuck you

>Aww man I have to dust the Banes on my shelves AGAIN ;_____;

This is exactly why they won't do a Skorne-style overhaul for every faction. All it would do is open the door for autists worldwide to screech "why not this too!?" Little bitches cry about it every time their favorite models aren't at the top of the pile.

As for you, put on your big boy pants and remember that the majority of MK3 is in a good place.

>This is exactly why they won't do a Skorne-style overhaul for every faction.
Also it's a shitton of work to do right. And the playerbase also appreciates a certain level of stability, so chainging half of the models in the game at the same time is a bad idea for multiple reasons.

How is the Cygnar battlebox?

>Also it's a shitton of work to do right
Is it fuck. All you do is look at an underperforming unit, ask yourself what its job is, then nudge a number or two to help it do it. That's pretty much what they did to Skorne.

>Keltarii
They're designed to be an anti-shooting unit. So make them close the gap quicker with +1SPD.
>Swoosemen
They're supposed to be the go-to melee unit of the entire faction, but their MAT is garbage and they do no damage anyway. They were literally worse than Nihilators, and Nihilators aren't even supposed to be a go-to melee unit, so bring their MAT up to the "this thing is meant to hit" level, and change their mini feat to damage output.
>Ferox
Cost too many points, so bring them in line with every other heavy cavalry with -1PC.
>Handlers
All they did was bring them closer to what they were before they nerfed them into the ground in the first place.

It'd take a basement dwelling virgin like 20 minutes to produce a respectable half dozen or so changes to each faction.

>Nudges a number or two
>Has zero experience balancing a game system with hundreds of variables and no knowledge of upcoming releases that must also balance against existing models.
>Forgets to take diabetes medication
>Slips into coma, only commenting again when MK4 is released.

Yeah because I'm sure the company that made you fail a charge if your target was knocked down has poured over every possible interaction in the game to make sure that +1SPD to Keltarii is perfectly safe and does exactly what Keltarii need. Suck muh dick fagtron.

Since the black 13 unit has some of the characters with caine 3, can they be used together in a list?

Nope.

Doesn't that really confirm the concept? If a company that's devoted towards balancing and making the game work can fuck up, why would some random ass person convinced he knows best be able to make incredible changes without any issues?

We know that some things are complete shit. So what's the harm in bumping a number that helps them do their job?

Because it's very, very easy to bump them to the point that they are massively overpowered.

>HEY GUYS COME PLAY WITH MY SUPER SPECIAL UNIT I BALANCED MYSELF!!!! IT HAS 20 IN ALL OF ITS STATS. IT IS THE BEST BALANCED THING EVER!!!!!!!!

>NOOOO DON'T BRING THEM DOWN FROM 16 TO 15 POOOOIIIIINTSSSS
This is literally you.