MTG LEGACY GENERAL

Wizzerds's reasoning for bans is pretty ridiculous. Reading the ban/restriction announcement left me with the impression that they still didn't quite subscribe to the idea that having a fifth of the Legacy metagame be dominated by Miracles was a problem, and that "slow play" was the biggest issue. Most irksome was the fact that they didn't seem to understand that the issue of slow play from Top came almost exclusively from Miracles, so any ban that would crush that deck but leave others unscathed would have solved the problem.

Has wizards ever put forth a reasonable argument for why slow play or long turns or decks that have to do a whole lot for very little gain are bad?

Slow play for the sake of a draw is bad in magic, why not just change the rules to be like chess? 30 minutes a player or something.

The concept of slow play sounds like you're asking the judge of a card game to determine if a complete stranger is acting in bad faith.

>tfw fish player

Feels good never having to worry about a ban, but fuck wizards has an itchy trigger finger.

who is that in the op picture

Nahiri and Deathrite Shaman

Stoneforge mystic and deathrite shaman

dr doom and skirlgirl

Citation needed

Lets pay respects to the true victim of this ban announcement, Imperial Painter

oh fuck it's real

magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/addendum-april-24-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-04-26

eat shit, 12 year old Spkies

I was just thinking about this today
pouring a 40 on the highway tonight.

Im so sad about Painter being unviable now. It was my dream Legacy deck and I was going to try to build it, slowly getting all the pieces once I could afford it. Now its dead completely probably, I dont see how it lives as it always played 3-4 Tops, and even then it was fringe.

It was a fun (one misplay and you're fucked) matchup for me and I like the deck. Is it really crippled beyond hope without Top?

What is Stonestill

The reason why slow play is a problem is because some players are inconsiderate faggots who don't bother learning how to play the game well enough to play fast enough. It's not entirely an issue actively burning down the clock for value.

In order to mitigate player faggotry or just pure incompetence, I can understand banning shit like Top under the pretenses of slow play.

HOWEVER. The only reason why I feel slow play excuse flies is in Modern where there's still some semblance of maintaining interest from new players or for GP viewing purposes. But this is Legacy. There is a 100% chance that anybody new to Magic did not start with Legacy. It's bad enough that Legacy players have come to terms with the fact Wizards doesn't care about their sustainability what with the Reserve List but to presume that they're too fucking terrible to play Top quickly enough? You might as well be saying to them, "...not only do we not care if your format dies, we're just going to fuck with it just because we can" like they did with the Top ban.

The ONLY good fucking reason I can imagine they could use to pull the slow play card is because of Legacy on MTGO. You fucking stroke the Top so people don't get pissed playing against Top online, which would impact their revenues. And if this were true, I would say it's a good reason, but they are always too fucking cowardly to admit something like this. Instead players are just going to stew in the knowledge that they made a shit decision in public.

I don't know what to think about the Vintage situation.

This would never be a real problem if it wasn't for the fact that the game is expensive as fuck. We would be able to tolerate any number of retarded bannings and unbannings if a banning meant we were out $30-50 for playsets of a variety of cards in a deck that is no longer viable. Except in most cases, "playsets of a variety of cards" actually amounts to somewhere in the range of $300.

The deck was already barely playable as it was. Top was used to help find the combo and in combination with Enlightened Tutor and Imperial Recruiter was the only way of having consistency. I guess you could go up to 4 E Tutors but I still dont see the deck surviving. Strangely though with Miracles dead and gone, Blood Moon just got a lot better and Miracles was also Painters worst matchup so maybe its still just barely viable.

Are there still people out there who dont think Miracles deserved a ban?

Nobody is arguing against kicking Miracles in the balls. They just hit the wrong fucking card and gave a shit justification for it.

Is there any reason to use StP over Path? Using StP on Marit Lage hurts my soul. Not many decks in legacy play any basics anyway.

>Not many decks in legacy play any basics anyway.
What the fuck kind of Legacy are you playing

The kind where I go against some iteration of Delver or turbo depths every single game

Both if those decks run at least one basic for shit like StP.

You can run both depending on the deck. What are you playing?

Not really, but you'll find plenty of us that think Terminus or maybe Counterbalance are what should have gone instead to not kill the deck dead and hurt several other deck types incidentally.

Welp. RIP in pieces.

They both have their uses; it depends on the expected meta, your deck and your gameplan. If you want to talk about soul hurting just wait until you have to Toxic Deluge Marit Lage.

Its ok. I thankfully never bought the deck as it was too expensive to justify at the time, now im really glad I didnt. Oh well I guess ill just stick to playing Burn.

It's not quite stacks, miracles or stasis in terms of feel. It is definitely an oppressive control deck though. Miracles was not only better than it but shit on it profusely so I think it is positioned for a rise in popularity. Just when stoneforge mystic hit 17 dollars too.

mtgtop8.com/event?e=15268&d=292778&f=LE

...

If theres one good thing that came from this ban announcement its the hilarious salt levels on reddits legacy board with all the whiny faggots bitching about it

>I don't know what to think about the Vintage situation.

Don't worry, Vintage doesn't ever go to time because someone eventually develops some lock or combo piece or beats down fast enough. Games will always finish in Vintage.

It is time for the return of GRIXIS THIEVES into Legacy.

So is anyone going to brew something cool now that we have the first format shakeup in a long time?

I guess the usual suspects will fill the void, but has anyone done anything novel with some of the cards in the past few blocks combined with old spicy tech?

Me. I play against miracles any time over Elves.

I was going to build DDFT, but with top being banned, is it still a viable deck?

lol

Thanks for input, senpai

>DDFT went postal
>Teeth user lost nic fit and miracles, now plays mono green storm
>Esper Miracles has been missing, pressumed suicide

Dont forget
>Some dude put his girlfriend in the ICU over the banning

this still feels like a ruse, anyone posted the proof yet?

>DDFT went postal
What? When?

They are the people that banned cloud of faeries...
For familiars.
A tier 2 or so deck.
And didnt ban delver in pauper instead

>tfw dredge

I AM IN FEAR. DO NOT LOOK HERE MARO.

Why would they ban dredge? Dredge was great against miracles and nobody played it. If anything youll get a buff in 3 years when deathrite gets banned.

I LIVE, I DIE, I LIVE AGAIN.

Wizards has a hardon for fucking with dredge and grave decks.

Also dredge MU w8th miracles is shit thanks to terminus unless you combo T1 on the draw or via hateflayer

Dredge was great for fucking with miracles. After the terminus you had all the time in the world to rebuild and go again. The thing holding you people back is the fact that a one drop grave devouring monster is a 2-4of in a ton of common decks.

>no 1x SSG
are you even the same guy

Chromatic spheres haven't been white bordered yet.

I don't even know you anymore.

SSG crossed my mind but it seems bad. I'd rather add storm count than occasionally flashback therapy. I want to swap the Ideas Unbound for Three Wishes and make one of the spheres a Conjurer's Bauble. Without Top, IU is a lot worse and 3W enables some weird piles.

Witnessed! Those spheres look painful. I'm so sorry DDFT.

I haven't white boredered a couple of the cards because I've been changing lists so much. I started at a straight BUG list with Veteran Explorers, made it all the way to a TES hybrid list with 4 manamorphose, then turned around and settled more in the middle. Still trying to feel out how it plays differently, but it isn't too bad. Still might just be worse than ANT, haven't decided. Mostly goldfishing right now.

Some list used to play 1 sphere anyway because it has an interesting interaction with lab maniac. The draw is part of a mana ability so it can't be responded to, so it can be used to make removal-proof piles.

>The draw is part of a mana ability so it can't be responded to, so it can be used to make removal-proof piles.
DUDE

>top's price keeps rising on TCGplayer
What was the average price before the ban? All of these price history sites seem to be detached from reality.

Is there a UB control deck in Legacy?

>tfw Big Red player
Do I have anything to worry about?

YES!
You have summoned me to shitpost about my favorite deck, ask away.

Don't worry, good ol Esper miracles guy is still here unfortunatley. I haven't given up hope yet but I'm thinking of upping my snapcaster count and adding 3 morr Lim-dul's vaults main board. I'm desperate to say the least but I don't want to give up

What are your bad matchups? I would assume you can easily handle combo decks with discard and counters, is that correct? What are some spicy/offbeat cards you've tried?

>Bad Matchups.
Burn can be hard due to my lack of spot removal for creatures and low basic count, though Chalice helps a lot.
BUG decks are a challenge because of how much disruption they bring to the table, and Decay blowing up Chalices.
The deck did a great job of preying on Miracles , so having that banned kinda hurts.

>Easily handle combo decks with discard and counters.
I'm not playing any discard, but I've got 4 Force, 4 Chalice and a Trinisphere maindeck, so I do like my combo matchup.
>Spice
I've played around with Padeem, since he gives my board protection from Abrupt Decay and draws cards, but ended up dropping him. There were too many times where the card draw forced me out from under a Bridge.
There are also some lists that play Breya, Etherium Shaper as a wincon tutorable with Transmute Artifact, which is sweet. People underestimate the amount of damage Breya represents with her sac ability all the time.
I've wanted to try Tangle Wire for the longest time, since I often have a ton of extra permanents and can keep ticking up my planeswalkers while under it, but never really panned out.
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ubr-tezz-4/

>the full 4 LDV
Spicy to say the least. A while back I played against a spicy Esper Omnishow list with 4 maindeck LDV and 4 Terminus. Seemed to work OK and confused the fuck out of me.

Cool, thanks!

qft
fuck reddit

Terminus is amazing against Dredge

When did you white-border the petal? Was your buddy upset like you thought he'd be?

I did it a couple weeks ago. Acetone doesn't work so I did it with a very sharp knife. Gently scraped the border off. He just laughed actually, which was good for me. Was expecting a cunt punt.

>tfw Grixis Delver is still a contender

magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2017-04-27

There's a new Legacy video series where some dude is going to be playing an UB Omnitell list.

itsjulian.com/results/

...

>Mostly white borders, some random black borders
I don't respect namefagging but I respect your moxy and taste

You know the joke here is that those cards weren't originally white bordered. He raped them with acetone. There's a white bordered masterpiece lotus petal for fucks sake. I assume the black border cards are top replacements that haven't been given the mengele treatment yet

>I don't respect namefagging
First time in the legacy general?

Yes, I know. Moxy and taste.
:^)

>no control deck in this format now
wtf I hate Leagcy

>top-less 12 post
Give it up, dude. Your deck is garbage-tier now.

Countertop isn't the only way to play control. I was angry about the ban at first too, but I'm waiting to see what the new meta looks like. As long as we have force of will legacy will never become modern.

>Playing top in 12-post
>A deck with no fetches or ponders
Expedition map is the only filter you need, fellow patrician

THIS
H
I
S

Top made decks that shouldn't work work.

I am salty that wotc is putting it's faggot fingers in legacy, though. Nothing good will come of bannings in the second purest format.

I've wanted to get into Legacy for a while but now I'm unsure. Is it even worth doing? WotC is doing a good job of making every format look like a shitshow.

First there's lolstandard this past cycle. Modern is a minefield of bans waiting to happen. And now this short-sighted Top ban.

>The draw is part of a mana ability so it can't be responded to, so it can be used to make removal-proof piles
Oh damn that's pretty awesome

At this point, don't even invest in paper. Wotc have made it clear that they're ready to ban anything they consider unfun with no regards to how the majority of their players feel.

just move on to a different deck you crybabby

Standard is an absolute joke of bans.
>ban everything currently winning regardless of printed answers

Modern isn't as bad.
>Unless they ban Death's Shadow for some dumb reason the only thing that comes to mind is SSG.

Legacy has been trying for years to find a counter to top.
>Mfw wizards clearly prints Harsh Mentor as a response
>Top btfo anyways
Yeah, it's a little on the expensive side to get into and still be worried about bans, but there's a shit ton of viable decks that aren't ban-bait.

>Lmao just buy a 2k+ dollars/euros bunch of cardboard kek
>ur nut a poorfag
I'm not bcause I don't go around throwing 2k+ on cardboard.

Only format worth getting into atm is limited or pauper.

>Top made decks that shouldn't work work.
That is literally one of the main ways I judge how fun a card is for a format. See life from the loam.

Okay Veeky Forums, I know it's way too expensive of a deck considering it hasn't been viable for two years, but:

HOW DO WE SAVE PAINTER? Especially without top?

KILL MARO.

Its dead Jim

>As long as we have force of will
WoTC will get rid of it soon. They'll probably go ham on the format and the most popular deck every year to spice things up.

t. Salty Miraclesfag
Sorry your petdeck got banned, youll get over it soon though

Only autists love control