/Hhg/- Horus Heresy General

I'm pretty hyped for 8th, here's hoping that HH updates quick.

>forgeworld
>quick

Remind me what book number we're on now?

It ranks worse, it doesn't get worse though.

Shhhhhh. I can dream

Just because it doesn't get worse, doesn't mean it was good to begin with. When the worse of the two options becomes legitimately good, then the previously preferred option is far less appealing.

How the fuck can someone's last words be "urg, End of Empires, urg!" when he's literally the first human being murdered?

I doubt that there wasn't even a concept of town existed when it's so long time ago.

ADB gone too far on his Big E/Imperium hate?

What are peoples opinion on anvillus deadclaws? I was planning to deep strike my termies with teleportation but that has some glaring weaknesses. But then again it doesn't cost as much as a dreadnought drop pod.

As humanity grew so did the demon, at some point it needs a motto grander than kill the next dude to accommodate it's larger consumption of murder juice.

>ADB gone too far on his Big E/Imperium hate?
Yes, he's gone too far, but I think the closer aproximation to its true name is Echo of the First Murder.
Isn't this thing hard to deal with because you can't murder violent deaths away?

I'n not against the daemon itself. I just find that Abel screaming 'empire' bullshit is so out of time period, making me think ADB putted that just to show his personal hate. (Imperium must fall thing)

>
Hi. I don't play HH, but I just wanna compliment whoever does the OP pics because I see them all the time and they're all great.
So yeah, thank you.

Ehhhhhhhh.

I do think ADB can go a bit far sometimes, but MoM didn't really bother me too much. One thing ADB does do is have characters say shit that they mean, but that not necessarily ADB means. He's decent at giving characters good point of view with reasons for believing what they do, even if it's not true.

People shit on him for how the Emps talks to Arkham Land, but they don't notice that how Emps talks is different depending on who he talks to Everyone sees/hears kind of what they want to see/hear.

Ok... I'm going to assume that someone has some sort of reading order image macro for the novels? Where to overlap the Novels, the comics, the anthologies, and what's skippable? Or am I being an asshole?

#
>what's skippable?
It would be faster to list what's readable desu. Start with 1-3 then whatever book is about your legion.

A Thousand Sons, First Heretic, Betrayer, Scars, and Path of Heaven are generally considered standouts. Master of Mankind is important if you want some insight into the Emperor but it's fairly divisive.

There's a lot of BL hate here.

Honestly try reading em all. You get the whole story that way.

Furious Abyss is one of the ones that's just plain can't even read it bad tho'. And it's pointless to boot.

WITCHES GET YOU REEEEEEEEEE

So from what little I've read of the 8th ed changes so far

>Salamanders flamer spam now super viable
>lascannon mortisnoughts is now a great idea

and cataphractii is now infinitely more valuable

>People shit on him for how the Emps talks to Arkham Land, but they don't notice that how Emps talks is different depending on who he talks to Everyone sees/hears kind of what they want to see/hear.

Thats not by intentional design, let me assure you. Rather, its the only way the fanbase can continue to live with the shit that comes out of BL.

>Honestly try reading em all. You get the whole story that way.

Agreed. Obviously not every book is stellar but they're quick, enjoyable reads. Anybody getting super asspained about them is stupid. I've read a decent amount of everything aside from the novellas or Salamanders and Dark Angels stories.

No that's within MoM. How he talks to Land is different than with the one Custode.

"Drach'nyen" is the approximation of the scream of the first murderer and the brother he murdered. While ADB says the word ends up being translated as "End of Empires", I understood that it means so BECAUSE that is it's name, instead of being named Drach'nyen because it means EoE in daemontongue.
Which is silly because empires fall due to economic reasons, mostly by being cut off from some resource/trade route and thus being unable to pay for more soldiers.

>Drach'nyen
>Name composed of murdered and murderer.
>Cai'nyen and Drach'bel.
>Cain and Abel.

>no Garro novel
>no Shattered Legions anthology

I see Horus Heresy novel squad is taking a break.

>and cataphractii is now infinitely more valuable
If Tartaros termies get the charge their AP2 Unwieldy weapons would still hit before the enemy's, and thus would be able to Sweep the Cataphractii despite having a worse save (due to less Catas being able to hit back).
If Catas get the charge, they have a better chance but don't get the option to sweep.
This would mean Tyrants (& copycats), Deathshrouds and Grave Wardens get better :^) without altering the power of other Legion specific Cataphractii.

It is a good day to be the core demographic :^^^)

Nixon Shock fuck yeah

Kind of a long shot here, but does anyone happen to have pictures of the runes the Salamanders Promethean Cult uses? All I could fine were the ones on Vulkan and the Fire Drakes and I can't seem to find them in the books.

There's no such thing as sweeping in 8th. They haven't revealed yet what the stats of a power fist will be, or if there will still be invulnerable saves (or at least if terminators will have them).

post your army so far before 8th edition brings balance to the force(weapons). probably gonna be ordering $100 worth of Z's custodes tanks next week to start filling out a talons army for summer and *hopefully* both HH and 8th 40k.

Is there a mega with all the HH audio books?

Finish those world eaters lazy motherfucker!

never! or at least until I practice weathering and git gud on less valuable models. maybe those imperial shitfisters.

Even if not then Im sure a couple hours of combined debate on this bread we will be able to hash together a conversion guide for all the weapons/unit stats.

Whose in if thats the case?

Obvious question, two legion specific two wound terminators become four wound termies or do we just pretend that one wound is still standard.

>in heresy 8th ed, custards become only as good as legion armies and admech become worse than legions
>ebay and similar become flooded with tens of thousands of grey custodes and robutts because no longer powergamer's first choice
>collect robutts for cheap

I'll take those cheap grey custodes because their grav tanks and dreads are the sexiest thing FW has released all year.

Hell yes, cheapish Castellax. I mean, it's going to be hard to make Admech outright bad, they have lots of strong vehicles, MCs, infantry of all flavours and ICs that can do pretty much anything with the right build. They can shoot or chop, although they prefer the former. I think we'll certainly keep at least in the"decent" tier at worst. Cybernetica will probably take a knock, and Reductor will miss templates, but so will everyone else to be fair. If you need to make a single To Hit roll to get your D6 or whatever hits I can see Djinn-Skein Magos being invaluable. Obviously assuming they don't gut all the wargear options for everything in a fit of pique, anyway.

>grav tanks
Literally eldar, where are the imperial bricks in gold and gold?
>dreads
Completely agree, they're absolute sex.
Kinda want to convert one into a 1ksons psychonaut, leading an army of like ten dreads and their breacher squads of sarcophagii cleaners and/or objective humpers.

Wait, a full "HHG BALANCES FW'S MISTAKES" codex, because Veeky Forums gets shit done?
I want to go full autist for a good cause, let's do this after I get a few hours of sleep

I got one of the caladius tanks from Z last week and the model itself is fucking neat as hell. but yeah the dreads are definitely better if it's a competition.

I'm not a fan of them personally, i feel their aesthetic just doesnt match the rest of the army, but to each their own

Sleep is for the weak.

True, but I'm weakened after fighting the Chinese and their billion Chu Ko Nus of death by 10000 cuts 8 trigrams.
Made me think of Dark Angel Plasma Repeaters and how literal repeating crossbows would defeat them because they're literally unusable due to their pitiful range.
Lost the first match, then used a double wall and massed scorpions...and they surrendered before the armies were fully committed.
So, -D3 VPs, I guess.

Bump them up to 2 and 3 wounds
They are still better than the average, but the difference in powerlevel isn't so stupidly huge.

One wound termies against the base of 2 would make them garbage

next item, how in gods name are the Ironfire rules supposed to work without templates.

Oh god ok. I think I'll do this in the morning and only half is painted so far.

It's so much gold

HAHAHA this I agree with! Let us lay the Capstone of this glorious Motherfucker

As for Legion Termies I would suggest a conservative 3 wounds first then bump to 4 if they still seem fragile.

Give me a few hours and I can convert most of the weaponry excluding the D strength stuff.

As long as we're not slinging nerfs around too, I imagine 1d6 scatter would translate to rerolling the no of hits die and no scatter to always getting the max number of hits. Place a marker where the first model removed as a casualty stood, no casualties no markers.

Hmm, more accurate Artillery? For instance if it does D6 hits per arty shot, maybe a +1 or changes it to 3+D3 hits within 6"? Too powerful?

Will crunch a sheet out with weapon stats and shit and upload it for inspection in a bit or in the morning

Nah, forget ironfire and how many wounds terminators have, let's talk about the REALLY important stuff:
>white scars: if you have a longer moustache than your opponent, add 1" to all move values
>blood angels: you may reroll to hit in close combat if you weep for your enemy's losses as you roll
>death guard: actually, let's not do this one
>imperial fists: if you smile at any point during the game, your opponent gains 1VP
>space wolves: if you howl whil- actually, let's not do this one either
>word bearers: you may reroll one dice a turn providing you say a prayer beforehand
>raven guard: if you enter the store and tap your opponent on the shoulder before they notice you, you automatically get the first turn
>iron hands: your warlord may reroll run moves & charges if you have a prosthetic leg, your warlord may reroll to wound in close combat if you have a prosthetic arm
>emperor's children: reroll to hit in challenges if you are better groomed than your opponent

>Give me a few hours and I can convert most of the weaponry excluding the D strength stuff.
How? Would it not be better to wait and see what rules most weapons actually get? I mean, you could extrapolate based on the 3 weapons profiles we know to work out what profile a heavy bolter (say) should have, but it seems simpler to just wait and see what profile a heavy bolter actually has in 8th edition 40k. Now obviously there are a lot of weapons in 30k that aren't in 40k, but it'll also be easier to work those out once we know the rules for more than 3 weapons.

Sorry to be a miserable git, but this seems like something that it'd be better to wait and see with.

Are destroyer squads worth it at all?
I want to take a moritat and stick him in a squad to boost his survivability, but they seem way too expensive for what they are.
Do they only exist for you to get rad weapons into your list or am I missing something?

Not really, FW even admitted they didn't pay any attention to rebalancing destroyers last armylist update.

They're nice at cleaning up power armoured units with rad missile launchers, but it's not like almost any other option is just as good and cheaper.

Hey, no worries; your being the voice of reason to my cavalier, 'fuck it' voice. I can only extrapolate. Namely Im actually excited about it and how it will (eventually) effect HH. I got some HOPE because I would like to play 40k again as well if 8th deals with the local, 'that guy' that I want to murder with a sharpened E-tool due to his Ynnari bullshittery/Tourney Deathstars in a relaxed local/chimps out when his shit starts dying/Does not compute the term, fluffy army build. Apologies, but srsly

FUCK THAT GUY

God dammit Knight user I have 3 separate armies on the go at the moment you cheeky fucker....sigh... so I have spammed the last 3 threads with Mad Malagra Magos Coalt so for a change have a army shot of my Death Guard in progress. I just purchased a Mastadon to go with all this so that will be the army done once it is all painted. 3k points, Pride of the legion up the guts in a party bus DG terminators and Dreads out the wazoo!

Deaf Guard, no ROW.

>HQ
Forgelord - scythe, RF & cyber-familiar, rad grenades, meltabombs

>Troops
10 Tacs - scythe, AA, meltabombs
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

10 Tacs - scythe, AA, meltabombs
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

>Elites
10 Marksmen vets - 2 plasma guns, scythe, AA
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

2 Rapiers - 2 laser destroyers

2 Rapiers - 2 laser destroyers

Contemptor-mortis - kheres assault cannons

>Fast attack
1 Attack bike - heavy chem-flamer, meltabombs

>Heavy support
Deredeo - autocannon array, missile launcher

5 Grave wardens - 1 chainfist
Spartan - AC

>Total - 2000

ALTERNATELY:

>As above, but The Reaping ROW.
>Forgelord replaced with delegatus (cataphractii armour, chainfist, rad grenades)
>rad grenades added to veteran squad
>last 15 points wasted...somewhere, I dunno

Rad grenades user, always choose rad grenades!

Was concerned about Grav-Flux Bombard's killing potential; Made a chart for myself and here's condensed version of results:

Against AV:
AV Glance Pen Damage
12 12.04% 25.93% 37.50%
13 9.72% 16.20% 25.93%
14 6.94% 9.26% 16.20%
15 4.63% 4.63% 9.26%

Against S:
>4 30/36 83.33% Wound
>5 26/36 72.22% Wound
>6 21/36 58.33% Wound

Bit underwhelming honestly, IMO.

>AP2, Ignores Cover, Large Blast, 83% chance to wound most common models in the game
>"underwhelming"
Tau player pls go.

Not about Infantry killing, but about vehicle killing. With 3d6 Pen + 2HP per Damage I thought it would be a rape machine.

Well there's got to be some advantages to taking the melta lance (for heavy vehicles) or storm cannon (for light vehicles). One option that just wrecks everything would be dull.

Well here's the think, maybe it's not an anti-tank weapon.

Your other options are S7 sunder and S9 melta so maybe they are for anti-tank, light and heavy armour respectively.

>1 Attack bike - heavy chem-flamer, meltabombs
Thats a free kill-point, you used to be able to bring five all with meltabombs but just one will be shot down from the other side of the map. If it was five with a bike praetor, its a strong-ass unit.
>5 Grave wardens - 1 chainfist
>Spartan - AC
For what, a forgelord caddy? Thats not a deathstar. Deathstars in 30k have primarchs, or at least a praetor with a paragon blade who will neuter your entire 650-point deathstar before any of them even swing. Put them in a raider, either bring a consul/siege breaker and put him with your rapiers or something, or swap the wardens for deathshroud, who are insanely killier than wardens

Had thought the attack bike could be a useful nuisance, but forgot about kill points, will change that.

Does everything have to be a deathstar? Is it not worth taking a generally effective close combat unit? Feels kind of disappointing if six fairly killy dudes aren't worth taking in modern 30k, and 10 termis + primarch is the only worthwhile choice. Will have a rewrite with just the wardens in a raider, I guess.

Anyway, grave wardens over deathshroud were because I hear lots of people build lists to be able to destroy land raiders/spartans in a single turn, but if that happens, their grenade launchers mean wardens aren't completely useless if they have to walk.

They are worth it, just not like you think. Use the termies to beat down AV, objective units, and heavy guns, while taking out the deathstars from a distance.

Speaking of *not* deathstars, how does this revised 3k list look?

Iron Hands RoW: Armored Breakthrough

Sicarian Battle Tank: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
Praetor: Terminator Armor, Cyber-Familiar, Paragon Blade, Digital Weapons
Terminator Command Squad: Land Raider, 4 Bodyguards, 2 Powerfists, 2 Chainfists

Quad Launcher Batteries: 3 Launchers, Shatter Shells
Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought: Twin Kheres Assault Cannons
Contemptor Dreadnought: Chainfist, Kheres Assault Cannon, Meltagun
Gorgon Terminator Squad: Land Raider, 3 Power Fists, 2 Chainfists

Predator: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
Predator: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
Tactical Squad: Rhino
Tactical Squad: Rhino

Javelin Landspeeders: 3 Speeders

Sicarian Battle Tank: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
Vindicator: Dozer Blade
Vindicator: Dozer Blade

It's different, but using the Speeders/predators for backfield objective-holding while the fast Rhinos carry up tax squads, and Sicarians take midfield as termies/dreads go to the front.

Maybe I should change the tax squads for some volkite caliver support squads? Could be useful.

Why did Robot name the Ultramarines, is he actually retarded?

>I will name them the Ultramar-ines, because I am from Ultramar
>I will name them Ultramarines, because I like the color blue
>I will name them Ultramarines, because they are good marines

Give marksmen vets combi flamers. That way up close and personal they have shredding rending flamers. Charge the survivors, if there are any, with rad grenades.

It's the first one.

>1488

"We must secure the existence of all mankind and a future for His primarchs."

Also, Ultra mar means the sea beyond in pseudo Latin... as in space. So it's a round about way of saying space marines in Latin.

The guy you replied to here, it doesnt have to be a deathstar, but if you're investing in a spartan over a raider then its best to maximise return, as the extra hundred points for a spartan will be missed in your army. If someone's invested in anti-AV14, then it doesnt matter what AV14 gets chosen, its dead anyway so you may as well take the option thats cheaper. Also, grenades are small consolation compared to the extra wounds and initiative 3 ap2, on the likelihood you do manage to charge something-if you charge a tac blob thrown at you as a roadblock you'll kill them all and thats your 200 points made back while still giving board control through CC threat.
Overall solid list, though i feel you've ignored your legion bonuses. Orth is incredible for a mechanised list even if you dont want to invest in Ferrus.
I feel the praetor is suboptimal compared to just a command gorgon squad in a raider, as you won't win against a serious deathstar and you'll drub anything else into submission just with your FNP termies. You've already got the bonus of a HQ Sicaran which can get an alright warlord trait, praetor choppy just feels unnecessary. Also free FNP/Hammer.
Contemptor is strictly inferior to cortus, as although the 5++ is universal it cant get rage/I5/etc like the cortus can and you should always be facing your front to heavy firepower anyway.
Tac squads should have Mmelta Rhinos, it makes your rhinos too threatening to ignore safely.
You're kinda lacking in anti-air for such an otherwise well-built list, a Xiphon/Lightning/FireRaptor would improve your AA and general board control a great deal.
There are no tax squads in breakthrough, predators are compulsory troops. If you hadnt used all your elites, i would say take vets instead.
Overall solid, i would drop the praetor, swap your HS sicaran to a Venator and bring Orth for that nasty combo of tank hunter+shock pulse for neutering what you dont explode, and then bring an extra predator

I just thought he was into Ultraman.

So, threw this together as an alternative to what I posted above, but while I was doing so more advice has appeared which obviously won't have been incorporated. But will post this anyway to see if this is a sensible approach for finding a caddy for my HQ that doesn't involve transports with capacity over 10. Basic thought was that the reaping allows jump infantry to hide in cover as they advance, then hit harder with rad.

>Death guard, The Reaping

>HQ
Delegatus - AA & RF, scythe, jump pack, rad grenades

>Troops
10 Tacs - scythe, AA, meltabombs
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

10 Assaults - 2 power axe, scythe, AA, meltabombs

10 Marksmen vets - 2 plasma guns, 2 combi-chem-flamers, scythe, AA, rad grenades
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

>Elites

1 Apothecary - power sword, jump pack

2 Rapiers - 2 laser destroyers

2 Rapiers - 2 laser destroyers

Contemptor-mortis - kheres assault cannons

>Heavy support
Deredeo - autocannon array, missile launcher

5 Grave wardens - 1 chainfist, rad grenades
Land raider phobos - AC

>Total - 2000

I fucking love this picture so much.
>The GUO's face
>The endless legion of marines shoulder to shoulder marching up to the GUO
>Rock-eating flies

I like it. Real up close and personal.

warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/

>everyone has Hit And Run now
Hmm.

Making the transfer from 40k to 30k
Heard a lot about how building armies functions very differently to vanilla 40k
Can anyone give a list of things to keep in mind when list building?

Not really. You can only do it at the beginning of your turn, and by the looks of it it stops you from doing anything else at all that turn. It does allow you to save a shooty unit from taking a second turn of pasting from a close combat unit, and charge in there with a more choppy unit of your own. It more or less kills off tarpitting too.

Here you go, this summarises it pretty well:
1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#Organization_and_Using_an_Army_in_the_Age_of_Darkness
If you're wondering what the rites of war mentioned are, scrolling down a bit and reading some of them should give a decent idea what they're about. Do note they're only a thing for legiones astartes armies though, mechanicum and auxillia/militia can't take rites.

No, the unit you pull out of combat can do almost nothing until next turn.

What it does is expose the unit you were in combat with to a charge, a round of shooting etc, and possibly save the unit you pulled out from being deleted.
Volunteering to leave combat also means you can't lock something in a fight for turns in a row.

I suspect tarpitting will still be perfectly viable, just not doing it with singular large models so much. Since you have to move away from the enemy, you can probably surround them completely and trap them in, and as they lose their turn you can follow up and charge again to pin them down for another turn. If anything, it's a buff to shooting as you can't hide in enemy units as easily, but I can still see tarpitting being a viable strategy, just less of an autowin than just running a Fearless Unending Host with a little arty is today.

Sounds to me like Zulu. Everyone falls back to the redoubt and blasts away.

Personally, I kind of dig it. I've always liked scenarios like that, and my brand of Skitarii army lends itself to that kind of tactic. Now my Vanguard don't turn into Genestealer Cult bed&breakfasts until they're ready to charge the Rangers behind them, and remember that if you force them to fall back but they don't manage to take you down, you can rush them again, which would give a nice feel to big melee armies smashing into defences.

True. On the one hand it nerfs assault by letting units get away from you after just one round of combat, but on the other it lets you escape unfavourable match-ups and tarpits. Then you have to weigh up the removal of initiative, and the changes to morale. It'll be hard to see what the effect in aggregate of all this will be until the edition is out and some games have been played, but I'm pretty optimistic so far.

On another note, the ability to exit combat might mean that assaulting from reserves or on T1 is back.

>Men of Macragge stand ye steady

So basically what I'm getting at is that 8th edition will favor, or at least infantry armies a lot more viable?

Also, I'm totally down for a Veeky Forums getting shit done and codexing 8th edition HH

I think they got the message that AoS largely devolved into two or three large melee mosh pits on objectives that never moved or did anything interesting other than roll fixed numbers until the wound pools ran out. This would probably make for a much more fluid game, since at worst the melee combat will move around the table over time and you can choose to cut your losses and throw something else at them instead.

Slightly worried that this edition seems to be focussing on cutting out time from games but also making everything more durable, though. I worry it's going to be boring padded sumo - there's no big dramatic template booms or flamethrowers anymore and the powerful weapons still allow saves which are magnified by cover, plus melee won't be able to keep much momentum up either if they take a round of shooting and get countercharged after almost every assault. I like some of the changes, but I am worried it'll end in both armies staggering to a halt in front of the shooty army's deployment just staggering backwards and forwards firing ineffectual barrages unless you bring a billion heroes to smash through and play Herohammer. I hate Herohammer, and it looks like they're pushing for it hard if the rumour of no IC joining units is true.

Meh, I think getting rid of some of the 'I shoot my large blast S8 AP2 guns at your marines, remove them all' is for the best. The tough things to kill are going to be vehicles (dreddy stats look hard as nails), but then multiple wounds on a lot of the weapons will balance things out and I'll bet that a squad full of chainfists will still make short work of a land raider.

I agree with this. There's gotta be some risk to doing it besides the retreating unit losing a turn. Otherwise it makes shooting armies very powerful. Retreat from domitar, blast it to pieces.

Some guy on reddit mathhammered 7th vs 8th dread against Lascannon. Takes 2-4 shots to drop a dreadnought in both, BUT you can no longer get a lucky OHK in 8th.

I dislike the lack of armor facings, personally.