/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Again, I don't really see how thats supposed to be shitting on something. The machine reacts to the exharchs, it reacts to everything. If they weren't there it would simply build itself differently.

Nah, it's complete shittery. The God-Machine only exists because of their existence.

Even the plausibility that it was created by an Archmage agitates me.

>The God-Machine only exists because of their existence.
Non of those quotes say that. It says it uses their symbolism, but again it could just as easily use something else if they didn't exist.

What book says that?

"The God-Machine is a puppet controlled by the Exarchs"

DaveB dropkicking the splats since forever. Truly he is glorious.

>"If the God-Machine is using a network of CCTV cameras to scan a city for demons, it is only able to do so because of the symbolism of paranoia and observation that a lens represents. That symbolism is the Exarch Seers call "The Eye"."

He's been pretty clear.

"-when I bother to reference it at all. In my own games (and in Demons) it doesn't exist at all."

Finish the quote next time, magefag.

Except for the part where he's answering how he runs things in his own games.

You're just saying the same thing over and over dude. None of the words in that sentence in any way imply that without the exharchs there the god machine couldn't do what it does. At this point I'm pretty sure you're false flagging trying to start more dumb flame war stuff

Ugghhh, this is what I mean. God-Machine is literally just an after effect of the Exarchs.

"it's depending on -and exploiting- the Exarchs."
Sounds like they're necessary tools, not controllers.

Without the Eye the Exarch couldn't make use of said example, I think that's what the point is. These things only exist because the Exarchs do, representing the respective symbols which are inherently themselves.

Without the Eye the God-Machine couldn't make use of said example, I think that's what the point is. These things only exist because the Exarchs do, representing the respective symbols which are inherently themselves.

Without the Eye the God-Machine couldn't make use of said example, I think that's what the point is. These things only exist because the Exarchs do, representing the respective symbols which are inherently themselves

Like I said before, if the exarchs didn't exist that doesn't mean supernal symbols representing a concept wouldn't. They would be different but they would still totally be there, thats how the supernal works. The machine would just use those instead.

So the God-Machine is a slave to the Supernal constantly, regardless of the circumstances? Whether it be the Exarchs or something else entirely?

How is that any better?

That's how it works, yes. Symbols define everything, but are responsible for little. Responsibility being discarded in favor of "it always was".

The God-Machine is going to revolve itself around anything that currently defines existence, but it will always depend on the Supernal. As does everything, except for a minor few exceptions depending.

So, you're saying time, space, matter, energy, etc only exist because of the Exarchs? They don't predate the universe. They might have merged with those forces, but they didn't create them, they're not the source. Also, this general needs to stop treating dev opinion like Gospel, if they didn't put it in one of the books, it doesn't matter. Brookshaw can say whatever he wants about the Machine, it's irrelevant until it's published.

>So, you're saying time, space, matter, energy, etc only exist because of the Exarchs?
No, that's retarded. They represent the symbols of tyranny and oppression.

The Supernal isn't the source of reality and existence, it's the code.

>Also, this general needs to stop treating dev opinion like Gospel, if they didn't put it in one of the books, it doesn't matter. Brookshaw can say whatever he wants about the Machine, it's irrelevant until it's published.
Are you the guy who tried arguing that the Imperial Practices weren't canon as of 2e because they weren't point-for-point mentioned in the core?

>No, that's retarded
I apologize if I misinterpreted your wording.

>Imperial Practices
Nope. I don't think I have that book, actually. The point is, if the devs wanted something to actually be part of the game, it would be in one of the books. There's a lot of WoD books, you'd think they could fit it in somewhere. Brookshaw's opinion is just that, an opinion, and we don't have to actually care. Mages shitting on other splats only happens so far as YOU allow it in YOUR games.

>What is the best clan and why is it Tzimisce?
>implying that the old clan isn't absolutely based

>Brookshaw's opinion is just that, an opinion, and we don't have to actually care

Depends on what he's referring to, really. He has been quite definitive on when he considers his ideals to be canon or not. Personally confirming that the Imperial Practices are still set-in-stone, as one such example.

Isn't DaveB under the effects of 'Word of God', as the Developer? Or are you going to throw 'Death of Author' at me?

> If they weren't there it would simply build itself differently.

Yeah, it would still require the prerequisites to do so. Those prerequisites being the symbols of the Supernal, even if the Exarchs don't represent those one specifically.

Nope. He's a dev, he could have put that in a book. He didn't. Think about it.

>word of God
In your opinion maybe. And that's fine, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to abide by it. Like I said, there's a lot of WoD books, if he wanted that in, it would be.

I think you're delusional, to be honest. It's like trying to argue that George Lucas didn't come up with the pile of shit that is Jar Jar Binks and nearly crashed the franchise into the ground.

We don't need the Imperial Practices updated to second edition to know they're still canon, user.

>Think about it.
Nigga couldn't even fit more than one Legacy in the wordcount.
I'm inclined to cut him some slack.

>Finish the quote next time, magefag.
Two different sentences relating to two difference things.

As above.

strawpoll.me/12812374

Okay, but wouldn't that symbolism still exist without The Eye up in the Supernal?

Or was there no symbolism for paranoia and surveillance before she Ascended?

If it's in a book, then name a page number.

Your comparison makes no sense.

You (I assume it was you) use part of a quote for your argument about the Machine, and totally ignore the part where that same dev says he prefers to not use the Machine at all.

>Think about it.
Thought about it. Guy had to prioritize and decided not to include Imperial Practices in the book because the book they're already in is perfectly compatible with 2e.

One of the greatest mysteries was how the world functioned back before the Celestial Ladder was erected and the Abyss eroded the bridge between the Supernal and the mundane.

It probably existed in an entirely different manner, such as how death was once considered a natural and beautiful thing before the Psychopomp showed up and turned it into something to be feared.

28 M:tA books in print, give or take. Yet none of them actually support your argument. He couldn't fit it in just ONE of those? And if he did, CITE YOUR SOURCE.

So keeping with that logic, there would still be symbolism without the Exarchs. It would just be different. Meaning that while the God-Machine exploits the changes the Exarchs have brought to symbolism, it could still function without them. It would still do it's equations and such, but the variables would be different.

Which is why they're called variables, if I recall Algebra correctly.

>doing this again

You will go to any god-fucking length, literally, just to appease your own damned falsehoods and biases. You need an exact citation for literally any conceivable notion going against your own. The Imperial Practices are canon still as of Second Edition.

Your reading comprehension is also alarmingly lacking in accordance with the other posters here. You don't disregard the words of a Developer.

>Two different sentences relating to two difference things.
Nope. I mean the question he's responding to with that quote. I can only imagine they cut that off in the picture for the sake of good bait.

Finally, someone names the book. What page number? Let's review the source together, friend.

There is going to be symbolism regardless of who is currently reigning in the Supernal. The Exarchs just brought something entirely new and tyrannical with them once they Ascended, becoming the symbols of oppression which dominate the world and define it.

Entirely new concepts can be formed, as is the point of Exalting Omens.

Source is Dave, user. Dave has stated that the Imperial Practices are still compatible with 2e, so that's enough for me. Nothing printed contradicts that, so I'll take his word as a developer of the game. This "IT HAS TO BE PRINTED OR IT DOESN'T EXIST" stuff is silly. Word of God is commonly accepted in regards to stuff like this. You don't have to like it or accept it, but you can't argue that it has no weight without looking like a retard.

Nobody here is going to appease you because you're apparently too retarded to validate sources on your own.

How about we stop making threads until something new comes out?

There's too much material to go hunting though randomly, literally thousands of pages of text. If your source is good, why not tell people what it actually is?

He can say anything he wants, but until it's in a published book, I don't care. No one should.

While I do agree that user is retarded, burden of proof is a thing.

Imperial Practices are discussed on page 251, and I'm sure somebody has that screenshot of Dave discussing the Imperial Mysteries in regard to 2e.

You mean the same guy who said the Exarchs are tools of the Machine?

>I don't care
Okay, that's fine.

>No one should
Aaaaand this is where you get retarded.

Speaking of, what are the next major releases? Changeling, then giest (or maybe the other way around) then hunter then deviant?

Yes.

>Aaaaand this is where you get retarded.
Why? Again, he's a dev. He can pout anything in any book he wants. If it's in a book that the Machine was made by the Exarchs, then cite your source, let's see it. If he chose NOT to put that in a book, there must be a reason for it.

1. Exarchs are above the God-Machine
2. Exarchs' existence is the deciding factor for 3. The God-Machines existence
4. The God-Machine was dethroned by the ancient Wizard Lords of Atlantis
5. An Archmage possibly created the God-Machine
6. The Imperial Practices are still canon
7. The Supernal defines everything and more
8. Dave Brookshaw is protected by the Word of God

Someone literally gave you three direct sources from the actual Developer explaining how the God-Machine and the Exarchs relate to one-another.

I would imagine the reason is that cross-splat stuff has never really mattered very much in these largely self-contained games and that he had more important shit to use the space for.

Okay, now WHAT BOOK is all that in? Let's see the source, not your interpretation of it.

And it's nothing that developer put in a book. If it is, NAME IT.

I dunno, they made more of an effort to make cross-splats a thing with Beast. Yes Beast is terrible and should die in a fire, but they're not wholly opposed to it.

Alright level with me folks: What's the erp scene for WoD look like?

>[autism intensifies]

The same as any other game, if you're just looking for something to jack off to, do play by post somewhere. If you want this in an IRL game...God help you.

Your continued lack of a source makes me think you don't have one.

>but they're not wholly opposed to it.
In my opinion they should be. It's fine to have other splats as NPCs in a game or to have connections across the fluff, but go smack some ice cream on your fish sandwich and cover the whole thing in horseradish and tell me how good it looks to you.

Gave you sources right from the fingers of the Developer. You're just an evangelical fucktard incapable of processing it.

Fucking pathetic.

I'm not even that user, and I don't really mind your stance.

You're just getting more and more autistic about it.

Mind you, he's not really wrong. They haven't provided backup for that statement.

I bet you think the world is flat and only 5000 years old despite the massive amount of accumulated evidence providing the proof of the opposite.

A source means a book, buddy. If a dev wanted it in a book, it would be.

A dev opinion isn't actually evidence. A book and page number would be though. You got one?

The screens of Dave explaining it were posted in the prior thread. He just doesn't accept it and thinks that nobody else should either.

Wrong about what? The Exarch x God-Machine discussion and the Imperial Practices still being canonized?

Three citations were given for the former, the latter DaveB personally stepped in here (about 1-2 weeks ago) confirming that the Imperial Practices were/are still canon.

This isn't something you can refute without being mentally inadequate.

Not gonna lie, former magefag here. This is fucking hilarious watching magefags crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let these guys ascend.

>A dev opinion isn't actually evidence
Got a source for that?

>tfw will never get to play out my wish fulfillment game of playing a hunter tenderly loving monster back to humanity

This is obviously the above user false flagging.

Yup. The fact it's not in a book. If it IS in a book, let's see it, prove me wrong. If you can.

>Imperial Practices still being canonized
Let's see a source for THAT, too. So far it's only been claims that a dev had an opinion. As in, completely meaningless. If he said it, let's see the quote.

>This is fucking hilarious watching magefags crash and burn

I'm noticing the exact opposite, really. But I do admire the attempt at suggesting otherwise.

Honestly at this point I want to see a book turn up and shit over mage powers. It doesn't even need to be powerful itself, just something that can no-sell spells. Just to stop this endless 'Nothing beats mages, you will be a lawn chair!'

There is the section in the 2e Core confirming the existence of the Imperial Practices. But you will probably just find another not-so-clever way to refute it.

>I'm noticing the exact opposite, really
said the magefgag

Nothing wrong with being a magefag!

Page number
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>dev words are meaningless
Nice opinion.

I've already posted it.

251.

Page 251

251 - 252

You mean the screencap of Dave saying Exarchs are tools of the Machine and made no mention of them controlling or creating it? He also compared Exarchs to the electromagnetic spectrum, and the Machine to the TV that reads it. Now, DID radio waves invent television? I forget.

FUCKING STOP
NO ONE FUCKING GIVES A SHIT ABOUT ANY OF THIS, WHY THE FUCK DO EITHER OF YOU SETS OF AUTISTS KEEP BRINGING IT UP JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

You mean the screencap of Dave saying the Exarchs are the definitive properties of the Machine and made mention that their existence is responsible to its current incarnation and upkeep?

Yeah, the Exarchs and the Supernal really do define all. Nice attempt at twisting words there, buddy.

This triggers the vampfag

Holy hell, it's like your brain purposely misinterprets the words of the Developer because you hate Mage just THAT fucking much.

This is only being lengthened because certain idiots are refusing to concede to actual fucking evidence.

The magefags aren't instigating this. It's like an atheist trying to explain evolution to a redneck catholic.

You're confusing me with the user who made those claims. I just pointed out that Dave's words on the God-Machine were already posted.