Flames of War General /fowg/ Cleaned my brush in my drink edition

>Has the "Cheers" meme spread out into the wider FoW community, or is that still something the Muggles wouldn't understand?

Fukken normies don't know about muh asiatic hordes.

>Only the T-72s are painted

I kinda figured the Mundanes wouldn't get it.

Maybe we should introduce them to the Cheers meme and maybe battlefront might listen and fix or break even more things?

Still only for autistic nerds playing autistic games. So most of us.

>my audio

my god, it's shit.
i need to just break down and fix that permanently....FFS!!!

Skipped ahead to my question at the end, which was the winners and losers.
>winners
Yeah, mortars gained so much it's absurd. And Nebs went from "they're a really good value" to "If you do not include nebs, the only logical reason is you don't have neb models. Buy some."
Heavy tanks don't just fear air and arty less, they just flat out ignore it now. A 1/6 chance of getting a FP check for a bail, after rolling to range in and then rolling to hit, means they're as immune to arty as FA 1 vehicles are to your standard rifle shots.
Heroes did indeed get a good bit better, as did the US 761st (who have the same rule).
(good) Cannon air is now really deadly and really, really durable. If they have bombs, you can't even hope to avoid them as infantry.
Surprised you guys didn't mention medium and lighter guns. The constant 3+ save makes them really tough now.

>Losers
Yeah, heavy arty is very much overpriced now, paying a lot for marginal firepower increases and nearly irrelevant AT increases.
BTGs lost, but not as hard as Bunker Busters. They were already bad, but then they made them worse. RoF
Shermans are probably going to tend towards Uparmored shermans, Jumbos (still good, they were just OP before), and basic 76s. E8s are 10pts more to go to effectively 2+ cross from 3+, so I doubt you'll ever see the non-uparmored ones.
Sturmtigers did lose pretty hard, yeah. Jagdtigers as well.
Another overlooked one, AA lost big time. No more 8" range boost, and needing 27 shots for your average 5+ FP AA to kill a single plane, means that now you need entire batteries of flakpanzers to actually stop a plane attack. There's no "Wave off under heavy fire" thing either, so cannon planes can just destroy the AA platoon in the first turn while shrugging off the incoming fire, then maraud around with impunity.

Played Hero tanks last night. It was pretty fun how mobile they could be. I used follow me and blitz orders quite a bit. Was up against veteran German armor though. PaKTrack and Stugs were blitz-fire-scooting popping up and down a hill like whack a mole. I need a Sturmovik...

All in all, I am enjoying how mobile everything is in V4. Makes the game pretty exciting.

I only have some of their older Germans. They are "heroic" scale like BFs infantry but less consistent in scale (the helmets are all over the fucking place in shape). The field cars I got from them were fine though.

Yeah, how good vets are now with no ability to remove GtG, reduced smoke and increased requirements for trained infantry to do things, and orders letting them do some crazy shit, is honestly making me really worried about the already notable preference of players for vet armies. I'm worried that, at least till they rework the points, trained is only going to be usable on disposable support assets.

I try man, I really do. But there is only so much I can do in editing.

All your sound quality issues are on your end.

Seriously invest in like a $30 USB microphone/headset combo.

Not even any of the high end gamer stuff, just a decent quality normal headset and mic combo.

>Surprised you guys didn't mention medium and lighter guns. The constant 3+ save makes them really tough now.

We probably just didn't think of it to be honest. We are as much noobs to 4th Edition as everyone else.

>blitz-fire-scooting popping up and down a hill like whack a mole

Ha! I love that mental image. German Whack-A-Mole.

Although I'd imagine that probably got frustrating pretty quickly.

Also, please tell me that someone actually gets the joke of the episode title...

Who's Mark?

cheers

I plan on running CT infantry for my Ausbildungs, mainly because the grenadiers are only there for armored assault. Not all is lost though. Infantry saves are still the same for all infantry.

Arty is key against vet infantry. If you range in on the first try or repeat a bombardment you will likely be hiting vet infantry on 4s which is really nice, especially if you have enough guns to force rerolls.

Cheeky bastard.

liek dis?

(ok, it's actually an H)

Bump.

I have some of their panzerwerfers which I also bought discounted a while back.
Their vehicles look slightly smaller and finer than battlefronts, but the detail is as crisp as you like, my only complaint is the cast-on bases.
Only seen infantry in their packets but they looked fairly close to BF

I don't believe that's true for the British Infantry.

I have sadly already experienced how good even simple arty can be vs veteran infantry.

Brit players at my FLGS have started using their 17/25 pounders as regular 25 pounders specifically because they feel the bombardment (even from a 2-gun battery) is so much more useful than the enhanced AT.
And of course 25 pounders are still decent at defending themselves with almost as much dakka as a Grant per gun.

Thank fuck I finally got my hands on some 10.5cm arty to counter that.

Depends on the figures: early Germans and Soviets not that great, LW Brits, Brit Paras, US inf and German Paras good to very good. Way less flash and casting issues compared to BF. The new North Africa figures look good, I have not seen them in the flesh though. Pic related, some FiB LW Brits done as 8th Army (because I prefer painting long trousers).

Vehicles can be well-detailed, but come with molded-on bases. I would use PSC and BF plastics wherever possible.

tiberiaspainting.blogspot.co.za/2015/12/8th-army-infantry.html?m=1

/NVA/

Yeah, the brit rifles/paras are proportioned pretty close to BF's. Same stand, maybe not, but near each other sure.

Just finished painting my first historical mini, it's for tanks but hopefully will grow it into a FoW army. C&C?

Looks pretty solid in terms of painting quality.

Do keep in mind, though, that starting in 1943 German tanks were factory painted in a dark yellow instead of the dark grey.
I'm not sure if late-model StuG III ausf. G were ever painted in that colour.

That's nicely painted and all, but what you've got there is a late model StuG (Ausf G most likely) with the Topfblende mantlet, which dates it from Nov 1943 at the earliest.

Dunkelgelb (dark yellow) camo replaced the earlier Panzer Grey from Feb 1943, so there's not really any way that that combination of model and paint would be likely.

I guess it could have been an earlier model which was up-gunned and had the Schurzen added, but even still that would have gotten a repaint in the factory.

Nice job with the grey. What did you do for the tracks and the dirt on them?

>Veeky Forums - /terrible grognards/

>Flames of AAAAAAA

Thanks for the feedback, I went with the Panzer Grey for aesthetic reasons more than historical accuracy as it's my favourite of the German Schemes.

I used MIG Dry Mud. Couldn't be easier; brush on generously then apply a little bit of rubbing alcohol. Once dry it'll come out looking like that.

> I went with the Panzer Grey for aesthetic reasons more than historical accuracy as it's my favourite of the German Schemes.
It certainly is aesthetic.

In fact, I kinda wanna make an earlier-war German force in their grey colours just because I like the look.

>TFW your club is planning a seelowe campaign so you have an excuse to do panzer grey tanks

I did the same, when i bought a PSC Panzer 38/Marder set for some cheaps Marders, i ended only making the Panzer 38t and getting 2 more boxes plus early infantry, because with the Panzer Grey they are just so AESTHETIC.

>Battlefront forums: "You can't carry foxholes with you, even if the rules allow it, that's just silly"
>Also battlefront forums: "Yes, hull MGs can fire outside of their firing arc now, it's a bit weird but it's an abstract game and the rules are quite clear."

>>Battlefront forums: "You can't carry foxholes with you, even if the rules allow it, that's just silly"
>>Also battlefront forums: "Yes, hull MGs can fire outside of their firing arc now, it's a bit weird but it's an abstract game and the rules are quite clear."

does this mean a fixed gun on a tank like a stug can fire backwards now comon we're abstracting

That has forward firing, so no.

Okay, haven't seen Brits. I have Americans, seen Germans and Soviets. All quite a bit slimmer, with comparably tiny heads.

>dismount the Mg34 from its forward-facing ball-mount and hand it to the commander
>he opens the hatch and fires it with his right hand, his weaker left using the mounted turret Mg
You may think that firing not only one, but two Mgs with only a single hand each, would be highly inaccurate, but I assure you it would definitely work, because after all, the firing accuracy of the user is not the critical factor, but the skill of the target

No that MG can't fire all around.

Basically all MGs in FoW are now guided weapons. So if you have a turret and can sight something behind you, the bullets will swing around, but if your sights are fixed forward you can only fire your hull MG with your main gun.

What's wrong with that?
Have you not seen the Fifth Element?

Am I reading V4 right that you now have to use stabilisers if you have them? When historically most US divisions didn't know how to use them and turned them off?

Seems like it, yeah

V4 cares not for your "history".

but isn't that a thing since the overperforming skills of the Sherman park since Blood, Guts and Glory?

Hmm, sounds like you've just seen the three older, awful infantry sets and not any of the newer ones?

Also this only applies to MW; as part of the New Year's celebrations in January 1944 they forgot how to fire backwards.

I like this guy, he's got that Blitz spirit of never giving up

Maybe it hasn't gotten the coat of dunkelgelb over the dunkelgrau yet

...

I feel like "lead designer totally contradicts printed rules, refuses to answer any further questions" is a pretty accurate summary of V4.

Guess so. German webbing on my bazooka teams and all. My M5 Stuarts from PSC are great?

Some people seem to think they're oversized, but they look great.

Phil used to have "The designer who cares" as a signature, back in the day when the FOW Forum still had signatures. Now he would have "The designer who doesn't give a shit."

They had a good game. They added stuff and ended up with the bloated LW stuff. They skinned it all down to a format to make future bloating easier by using cards.

I think v4 is probably a good move, but currently very limited in scope. I don't think that the designers don't care anymore, but with a game this popular there are a lot of people shouting at them.

#
There's a lot of shouting going on. Some well deserved, some just complete raving lunacy.

It seems like publicly stating "I like Version 4" is along the same lines as holding up a sign saying "I am the spawn of Satan himself".

The vitriol against Version 4 and people who enjoy it is just insane.

Honestly, I've seen more "Stop complaining about it, it's the new version, just deal with it and stop saying bad things about it." from people.

>I don't think that the designers don't care anymore, but with a game this popular there are a lot of people shouting at them.
3min quickfix errata:
>Blitzing removes Concealment, Gone to Ground, and Foxholes. Otherwise you still count as not moving.
>Destroyed tanks are always in command for morale purposes.
>A team hit while crossing a minefield stops halfway across the minefield.
>Yes, snipers are Concealed, Gone to Ground, and in Bulletproof Cover at all times, even after they move. Snipers tend to prepare multiple hides.
>Night Attack can only be declared when Attacking
There, that took 3 min and hit the three biggest complaints I've seen and a few others that have popped up.

>The vitriol against Version 4 and people who enjoy it is just insane.
I think "the vitriol against people who enjoy it" is projecting. I don't think anyone thinks people who're enjoying V4 are a problem; you guys do you. The issue is that the rules are trash, and that's not even an opinion; they're literally full of errors. The forums have now just noticed overhead fire doesn't work because teams block LoS, a thing we complained about in TY, but still went into V4.

>>A team hit while crossing a minefield stops halfway across the minefield.
This doesn't even need errata, though, Phil just needs to read his own fucking rules. It's perfectly clear, he's just wrong about it.

>Blitzing removes Concealment, Gone to Ground, and Foxholes. Otherwise you still count as not moving.
Apparently intended you keep concealment and GTG.

My local club might be looking into starting Flames of War and I just wanted to ask how many tanks is appropriate for a starting army?
I'm a huge Wehraboo yes, but I also like the Winter and Continuation Wars and the Soviet army

Depends who you're playing. Germans, 8-10 is a good core (less if you're playing big cats but don't play big cats as your first army). Most armies are about that benchmark, maybe closer to 10-15 for western allied trained armour formations. Soviets are approximately 20 (unless they're IS-2 lists, and, again, don't play those. Not as a first army, just ever, they're awful).

Bear in mind these are just tanks; you'll also want support like artillery, a platoon of infantry, some recon, etc.

1500pts, EW, r8 m8s.

German Czech Panzer
Tank Company, from Blitzkrieg, page 72

Compulsory Czech Panzer Company HQ (p.73) - CinC Panzer 35(t), 2iC Panzer 35(t) (165 pts)

Compulsory Panzer II Platoon (p.67) - Command Panzer II C (late), 3x Panzer II C (late) (225 pts)

Compulsory Czech Panzer Platoon (p.73) - Command Panzer 35(t), 3x Panzer 35(t) (335 pts)

Czech Panzer Platoon (p.73) - Command Panzer 35(t), 3x Panzer 35(t) (335 pts)

Panzer Schutzen Platoon (p.79) - Command MG, Light mortar, 6x MG, 4x Sd Kfz 251/1 half-track (275 pts)
- Replace Command Rifle/MG with Command SMG (0 pts)

Heavy Panzerspah Platoon (p.83) - 2x Command Sd Kfz 231 (6-rad), 2x Sd Kfz 231 (6-rad) (165 pts)

1500 Points, 6 Platoons

Alternate:

German Leichte Panzer
Tank Company, from Blitzkrieg, page 66

Compulsory Leichte Panzer Company HQ (p.67) - CinC Panzerbefehlswagen, 2iC Panzer II C (early) (75 pts)

Compulsory Leichte Panzer Platoon (p.67) - Command Panzer II C (early), 2x Panzer II C (early), 2x Panzer I (215 pts)
- 3x Replace Panzer II C (early) with Panzer II C (late) (must Replace all Panzer II C (early)) (30 pts)

Compulsory Leichte Panzer Platoon (p.67) - Command Panzer II C (early), 2x Panzer II C (early), 2x Panzer I (215 pts)
- 3x Replace Panzer II C (early) with Panzer II C (late) (must Replace all Panzer II C (early)) (30 pts)

Mittlere Panzer Platoon (p.69) - Command Panzer IV D, 2x Panzer IV D (450 pts)

Panzer Schutzen Platoon (p.79) - Command MG, Light mortar, 6x MG, 4x Sd Kfz 251/1 half-track (275 pts)
- Anti-tank rifle (20 pts)

Heavy Panzerspah Platoon (p.83) - 2x Command Sd Kfz 231 (6-rad), 2x Sd Kfz 231 (6-rad) (165 pts)

1475 Points, 6 Platoons

But muh superior German engineering?

Also, do you guys ever play Germans vs. Germans or Americans vs. Soviets or is it all about historical re-enactment? I can see Germans being really popular with local people.
I figured I would. I do love me some armored cars and infantry too. Especially machine guns.

>I can see Germans being really popular with local people.
Our local group has 5 out 9 playing germans (and one of the others is a Finn, so an honorary German). We can barely keep allied vs Germans games going, and commonly have German vs German. Allied vs Allied is rare, and tends to be US vs Soviets (I think I, the brit, have only played our soviet player once).

>Also, do you guys ever play Germans vs. Germans or Americans vs. Soviets or is it all about historical re-enactment? I can see Germans being really popular with local people.
If we play blue-on-blue, it's a training exercise. But, yeah, we like to do historical matchups if at all possible. If not we laugh it off; "Today, the desert rats are fighting some very lost finns..."

I presume that means that the books are balanced against each other so you can run late war germans against mid war germans for example?
Or Ostheer vs. the British Expeditionary Force?
I'm a little bit of a history buff myself, but if we can only get 3 or 4 people in my local group interested in FoW, I don't want to limit players based on what models they want or don't want to collect.

>I presume that means that the books are balanced against each other so you can run late war germans against mid war germans for example?
Not in the slightest. Late, Early, and Mid all have entirely different point values. They are not compatible, and attempting to use an EW force against a LW force at the same points will see you destroyed in short order.

For example, a T-34 is 300 points at Confident Conscript in Early War, and that's one step from the worst rating in the game (reluctant Conscript). In contrast, a Fearless Trained T-34/85 (one more front armor, better motivation and training, and three points higher anti-tank) is 80 points in the Late War period.

Generally, groups tend very strongly towards one period of the war (our local shop is Late War, with the exception of two guys that have old V2 Mid War forces), since lists are balanced against their period.

So you should choose a period in the war and then the armies will be balanced? Got it. I might buy something during my shopping trip today.

>when all 3 of your Leo 2s remount and kill 5 T-72s during your turn.

>Cheers

>when both your Leo 1s from reserves in the same turn so you can form a Flying V and drive the unwashed Communists from your homeland.

Yeah. Some forces can show up with the same vehicles in multiple periods of the war (basic T-34s or a Finnish T-26 horde can show up in all periods), but you'll need different books for the different points values of each period. It's best for a group to figure out what period of the war they like, and then build from there.

Early War is 1939-1941, generally having the early, crazy, and crappy tanks from the start of the conflict. Games are generally about 1500-1750 points.

Mid War is 1942-1943, and has received a huge revamp with the launch of flames V4. Instead of the normal 1500-1750 points for a game, it's using a different 100 point scale. Currently they only have the Desert Rats and Afrika Corps covered (and then only partially), but they'll expand it to cover the Italians, USA, and USSR within a year or two.

Late War is 1944-1945, and has all the crazy toys of that period. Panzerfausts are everywhere, Panthers are not extremely rare, and King Tigers start showing up and scaring everyone. But the german training and motivation starts slipping, while the allies now have things like Churchill Crocodiles, hordes of T-34/85s, and like 10+ types of Sherman to deal with the germans. Games are, again, generally about 1500-1750 points.

>T-26 Horde
Might be fun
Too bad we didn't get to buy any Tigers from Germany during the war, it would be a no-brainer to pick Finland then.

Can planes intercept other planes still?

Why? They would be red primer if they were unpainted

Sea Lion (the planned invasion of the United Kingdom if I remember right) had the tanks painted Panzer Gray, user.
He wasn't talking about Seelow heights.

Only Interception-only air can intercept. That's only available to early war brits/french, the Japanese, and the Marines.

Why you can't get air superiority to sweep enemy fighters from the sky as late war allies, I have no clue.

>Sea Lion (the planned invasion of the United Kingdom if I remember right)
Yeah. It'd never have worked, but people love acting like it would have for some reason.

Crossing the channel in river barges with barely trained operators, with massive naval inferiority and no air supremacy to make up for that, no ability to do preparatory bombardments, and the enemy having intact roads and railroads to quickly respond with their overwhelming numbers... Well, to be frank, it would have pretty much killed the German war effort outright if they had attempted it.

When did the US start using flak armour on a large scale?

I know Britain started using it in large numbers from 1985 to 1989 (there maybe some examples before this) but I've seen US soldiers in Vietnam using it.

I wondered if we'd see it in TY and if it could get rules.

It could have worked if Germany didn't flunk the battle for Britain.

It might have been remotely possible if they didn't lose the battle they were going to lose, yes.

They had the RAF on their knees before Hitler started the terror bombing campaign instead of bombing strategically important objectives though.

US bomber, glider, Marine tank and naval gun crews wore body armour of various kinds in WW2. The Army started using them in Korea around 1951. Here's a dated (published in 1984) but still useful Osprey on the subject:
mediafire.com/file/48kh87azfus5iku/Osprey - MAA 157 - Flak Jackets.pdf

Thanks for the link.

Yeah, I mean you can chase state funded attempts back to the Great War and private ones even further but I'm just referring to modern ones that use fibres like Kevlar.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain#Assessment_of_attempt_to_destroy_the_RAF
The germans underestimated the RAF's size, production, repair capability, and pilot skill, while massively overestimating their kills and the effects of their airfield bombing (airfields are pretty easy to repair when not dealing with high speed jets). The British, on the other hand, overestimated the size of the Luftwaffe and their repair/replacement rate. Most of the stuff written doesn't actually look at what really existed, and instead goes off the old, inaccurate assessments. This has then been repeated so much it's "common knowledge" when it's not accurate. Just like that damned "7 Sherman to kill a Panther" myth.

>30 USD headset
i've done that twice.

i think it's gonna take some doing.....

Luzon 1945 - The final liberation of the Philippines (Osprey Campaign 306)

Driven from the Philippines in 1942, General Douglas MacArthur returned three years later to force the Japanese off of its main island of Luzon. Containing the capital of Manila, vital natural resources as well as thousands of Allied prisoners of war, the triumph at Luzon would be a vital step on the road to victory as the Americans continued to island-hop their way towards the Japanese home islands. This new study details one of the hardest-fought campaigns of the Pacific War with Japanese fatalities alone on Luzon topping 200,000. Emphasizing the differences in Japanese and American strategy, and detailing the combat operations of the campaign, this volume tells the story of how MacArthur kept his promise to return and liberate the Philippines.

mediafire.com/file/y18d2b75oo3pd8j/Osprey - CAM 306 - Luzon 1945.pdf

I doubt flak jackets would fit into the scale of FoW/TY.

USD headset
>i've done that twice.

I was not aware of that.

You never mentioned that you purchased new equipment, and as much as I hate to say it I couldn't even tell based on the sound quality itself.

>i think it's gonna take some doing.....

It could be the microphone, it could be your computer, or it could possibly be your internet connection.

Or some combination of any of those.I honestly couldn't tell you.

But if you've already tried new microphones, then it might be something else.

Maybe ask some tech savvy people you know locally if they can figure out what the issue might be.

*shrug*

The Glider Pilot units in Holland have them, it gives them an extra save against Bombardments.