/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls lore general

Whiterun besides Solitude is the largest city in Skyrim even in Game.

IRL i see it as a Rnaisannce city with propper sewage, clean streats with few buildings in disrepair along the lower city walls.
Guard towers at every relavant corner that double as barracks for the town militia.
At least 2 trading districts , one for craftsmen (Carpenters, Stone masons, Blacksmiths, Alchemists etc.) and one for general goods merchants and market stalls.
A temple district.
Several guild halls (i doubt that the Companions would be the only mercenary guild by sheer virtue of them having splintergroups and competing adventurers), a hunters guild that does scouting work for the Jarl as well, at least one store related to the Colledge of Winterhold.
Whiterun is the most fertile area for agirculture, animal husbandry and Cotton production for clothiers so i'd expect a lot more farms.

>Most of the vidya cities already have the important features like castles, temples and natural features, but what’s lacking is all the things that come with scale.
I know right
Like the waterways in the Imperial City

It's not even funny...

Check out the St. Delyn and St. Olms cantons in Vivec, they have a nice variety of craftsmen.

>waterways
tell me about them

Refayj's famous declaration, "There is but one city in the Imperial Province,--" may strike the citizens of the Colovian west as mildly insulting, until perhaps they hear the rest of the remark, which continues, "--but one city in Tamriel, but one city in the World; that, my brothers, is the city of the Cyrodiils." From the shore it is hard to tell what is city and what is Palace, for it all rises from the islands of the lake towards the sky in a stretch of gold. Whole neighborhoods rest on the jeweled bridges that connect the islands together. Gondolas and river-ships sail along the watery avenues of its flooded lower dwellings. Moth-priests walk by in a cloud of ancestors; House Guards hold exceptionally long daikatanas crossed at intersections, adorned with ribbons and dragon-flags; and the newly arrived Western legionnaires sweat in the humid air. The river mouth is tainted red from the tinmi soil of the shore, and river dragons rust their hides in its waters. Across the lake the Imperial City continues, merging into the villages of the southern red river and ruins left from the Interregnum.

The Emperor's Palace is a crown of sun rays, surrounded by his magical gardens. One garden path is known as Green Emperor Road-here, topiaries of the heads of past Emperors have been shaped by sorcery and can speak. When one must advise Tiber Septim, birds are drawn to the hedgery head, using their songs as its voice and moving its branches for the needed expressions.

en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Cyrodiil

Pity a poor fag who's only ever played Skyrim but is learning to love TES as a setting and wants to learn more.

Why would my Argonian character be in Skyrim, and what background would lead him to be proficient enough in the use of magic to attend and later become Archmage of The College of Winterhold?

I understand their have traditionally been tensions between Nordic populations in Skyrim and neighbouring Dunmer in Vvardenfell and Morrowind, and that Dunmer have subjugated Argonians as slaves to a greater or lesser extent in the setting's history - is that connection between the three viable as an explanation?

I know it takes a lot of flak from fans of the setting and previous titles in the vidya series, but I really enjoy Skyrim (not being someone who plays vidya often enough to have garnered the distaste for it some many have), it just feels terribly unflavourful to be playing anything other than a Nord. Because I only really enjoying the game in a fluffy way, I want to have a more verisimilitidinous approach with my character design.

I don't have an answer but Skyrim isn't nearly as bad lore wise as Oblivion. My official power ranking is Morrowind > Skyrim > Oblivion = Daggerfall

A human would be the race which make the most sense lore-wise, specifically a Nord, Breton, or Cyrod. That doesn't mean you can't play as or enjoy another character, but don't act like you can find a valid reason for your lizard archmage thieves guild master assassin being the last dragonborn. Accept that it's a video game, and some things will not make sense. I like Morrowind much more, for one because there is much more variety on the type of player you can make and choices on which guilds to join, and why. In skyrim you can join the college, thieves guild, and companions. The only choices you really have make are dark brotherhood, civil war, and dawnguard. Not a whole lot of flexibility otherwise.

I think we can say with certainty the Nerevarine was a man, and the Hero of Kvatch was a human male iirc. Not sure about the other ones.

By man I mean the Nerevarine was male, not human. He could be anything really, if Azura had a dark sense of humor and a frolicking kajhiit acrobat fit the criteria for savior of the Dunmer people.

Speaking of, is there any evidence the Nerevarine was actually Nerevar reborn, and not a pawn of Azura? Besides Dagoth calling you Nerevar, that is

> Nerevarine was male

So that's why there was an even 50/50 split in the cave of the incarnate...

>Speaking of, is there any evidence the Nerevarine was actually Nerevar reborn, and not a pawn of Azura? Besides Dagoth calling you Nerevar, that is

Because you succeeded. Because the prophesy stated that Nerevar reborn would fulfill the prophesy.

:^)

How do you feel about going back to Soltheim in skyrim? As a guy who spent an entire summer playing Morrowind 14 hours a day I thought it was great lore friendly fan service

It was mediocre at best, there were some great fan service moments, but it fell short outside of the telvanni bits and really missed the mark for me with the morag tong

Definitley. I loved the Morag Tong questline in Morrowind, so killing them all seemed bad, especially because of how they were portrayed. A Casu-El friend and I discussed it and she swore they were part of House Hlaalu.

I recall the bit of Neloth mentioning gender was fixed, so it seems to be unintentional. I doubt the Nerevarine has a canon gender.

>A Casu-El friend and I discussed it and she swore they were part of House Hlaalu.
B'vek how horrifying.

From what I understand, the Aedra are planets that are dead, correct? If one could travel to them, which I don't see why it couldn't be feasibly possible (although improbable) with Khajiit colonies on one of the moons, What would they be like, besides bare husks of planets? Could they sustain life? Could colonies descended from cultists live on them, a by-product of the time during the Reman Dynasty where there were Mananauts and the like? How come we can transit magically to and from Daedric planes, but not the plane(t)s of the Aedra?

I can't say I blame her, the DLC didn't really go in depth with the houses or the role the Morag Tong in Dunmeri society. Just that Hlaalu are the guys who hate Redoran, and now some assassin guys killed Redoran guards, and now you have to kill a bunch and three of them happen to be the Hlaalu guys from earlier.

>No levitation
>No Goldbrand
>Can only summon Karstagg 3 times
>Can't turn into werebear
>Miraak's Mask is kind of shit
>Seemed light on missions

Overall, it was alright.

Who knows? Though if they're dead planets, chances are they won't be able to sustain life.

Fun to explore, welcome change of pace from mainland Skyrim and a nice throwback to morrowind.

I wish they made the Telvanni village an actual town and not "Neloth + a few servants." The Morag tong weren't depicted well, and I wish they indroduced some of Sadras. But it wasnt bad

>What would they be like, besides bare husks of planets?
Yes.
>Could they sustain life?
Most likely not. The whole point is that Aedra gave the powers that would otherwise sustain this "life" to Nirn.
>How come we can transit magically to and from Daedric planes, but not the plane(t)s of the Aedra?
The most obvious reason is there's really nothing of interest there (besides maybe the breath deposits on Kynareth).

I should have clarified that the planets are the dead bodies of the Aedra - much like how Masser and Secunda are pieces of Lorkhan

What changed between Oblivion and Skyrim regarding the rule of Arkay, that soul gems can't be used on sapients. Was it anything? Or did skyrim just introduce black soul gems because they are mechanically more interesting than not?

Black soul gems were introduced in Oblivion and were always just a gameplay thing.
I don't know what stopped them from just adding a Soul actor value to NPCs and introduce an alternative form of Soultrap instead.

Obviously I'd make a much bigger Grey Quarter for Windhelm, I think anyone would. But I like the idea of it being itself divided into three broad types :

- the upper part where the richest Dunmer live, including those who profiteer off other refugees, crime bosses, and nobles who fledHouse Wars or some other calamity
- the middle part, same as the game
- the lower part, basically shanties and wood cabins full of shivering Dark Elves, and with a lot of Daedra worshipping done on the sly (Mephala, Boethia and Azura).

I think Falkreath needs a more impressive graveyard too. They bang on about how big it is, but in the vidya it's tiny. I'd go with a full hillside rearing up to the north of the city with paths winding among gravestones and cairns.

Forbidden aperture

Say what you will about MK but his contributions to the PGE were amazing

Aedra do what they're told. The Daedra can't really be bossed around, but with the Aedra it's another story. A few smooth words and they're anybody's. It was probably the Thalmor. Seems like a typical dirty elf trick to me.

And then we have Oblivion full of jolly-jowelled elves chatting about mudcrabs.

My guess is that physically traveling to them would just reveal empty planes which approaching would appear spherical until they engulf your field of vision and are revealed to be infinitely massive.
The actual surface of the planets would likely be devoid of any interest, possibly even entirely flat. But their spirits and essence still live and can likely be entered, though not by any mundane means of travel.

The Aedra aren't dead, by the way. This is meme lore.

I think it's pretty shitty how the one overtly racist jarl is the only one with a ghetto in his territory. Like we get it Todd, Stormcloaks are bad.

>The Aedra aren't dead, by the way. This is meme lore.
Wrong.

I thought they weren't planets but that's just how mortals perceive them because of our limited brains

>I think it's pretty shitty how the one overtly racist jarl is the only one with a ghetto in his territory.
It would be far worse if the overtly racist jarl didn't.

I know this might not be the best place to ask, but I'm on a big Skyrim kick (ps4) and never made a lore-friendly character or roleplayed in the game before. So, I decided to do so, but have no idea what to make or how to play it. Any tips or ideas for a lore-friendly character)?

What do you mean? The only reason to put the only ghetto in that location is to highlight that Stormcloaks are racist

>Skyrim
Forget it.

Yeah, and that makes sense. The overtly racist jarl has a ghetto where the ancient enemies of the Nords resides. If it didn't exist, it would just be a throwaway statement, but instead they turned it into a detail about the city, which is a good thing.

The Grey Quarter is there to highlight this, yes, but it's not just there to say, "Hey player, look at these racist stormcloaks. They're racist.". It's in part a continuation of the story of the Dunmeri people, and it's interesting because it shows strife and conflict withing a city which gives it characterization.

Please explain to me how the Aedra are dead. Even Vivec makes it clear in his Lessons that the Aedra had lent their "gift-limbs," in other words, they did not sacrifice everything.
Lorkhan is the only one ever specially mentioned to be dead. There would be no reason to even make this distinction if the Eight Aedra were too. The reason Lorkhan is dead is because he no longer possesses his divine spark, hence why his corpse is in constant decay.

This is common sense that everyone ignores because 'lol, the Aedra are planets.'

Yes you're right, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't plane(t)s.

Look up the religion and lore of each race. Pick a location where they're from. It doesn't even have to be from their home province, the player does come from Cyrodiil to Skyrim after all.

Try and see what gods your character might revere. A Dunmer might be more inclined to worship Azura, Boethia,and Mephala; while avoiding Sheogorath, Malacath, Molag Bal, and Mehrunes Dagon at all costs.

>The magical beings of Mythic Aurbis live for a long time and have complex narrative lives, creating the patterns of myth.
>These are spirits made from bits of the immortal polarity. The first of these was Akatosh the Time Dragon, whose formation made it easier for other spirits to structure themselves. Gods and demons form and reform and procreate.
>Finally, the magical beings of Mythic Aurbis told the ultimate story -- that of their own death. For some this was an artistic transfiguration into the concrete, non-magical substance of the world. For others, this was a war in which all were slain, their bodies becoming the substance of the world. For yet others, this was a romantic marriage and parenthood, with the parent spirits naturally having to die and give way to the succeeding mortal races.
>...
>The magical beings created the races of the mortal Aurbis in their own image, either consciously as artists and craftsmen, or as the fecund rotting matter out of which the mortals sprung forth, or in a variety of other analogical senses.
>The magical beings, then, having died, became the et'Ada. The et'Ada are the things perceived and revered by the mortals as gods, spirits, or geniuses of Aurbis. Through their deaths, these magical beings separated themselves in nature from the other magical beings of the Unnatural realms.
- The Monomyth

I think it's pretty explicit.

Think of a character that would have a reason to have entered Skyrim. Think of something interesting about them.

Play the game with that character's personality. In particular use the intro part to get used to thinking from a character's point of view. Would you follow the Nord legionary guy into the keep? The Imperials did just try to decapitate you, even if that was that bitchy captain's fault. But maybe your sympathies lie with the Empire and you want to clear your name. Or do you go with the Stormcloak? He's a wanted criminal, but then he does seem willing to help out.

Think about how you'd react to NPCs. Are you someone altruistic who'd take on quests because it's the right thing to do, or someone who is only after hard cash? Are you a wilderness person or someone who prefers comfort?

Skills come into this too. Someone who prefers peace to violence might pursue Speech or stealthy methods.

>gods died and became spirits

You're taking this literally? Really?

>hurr durr everything is a metaphor
Two can play this game.

That line is blatantly referring to the Earth Bone spirits, hence.
>transfiguration into the concrete, non-magical substance of the world
>bodies becoming the substance of the world

The last line is likewise almost certainly supposed to be referring to the "ehlnofey" rather than "et'ada," given the term "et'Ada" itself is used even in other instances within the Monomyth as referencing beings that were still alive or even avoided death.
>many of the et'Ada vanished completely. Some escaped, like Magnus, and that is why there are no limitations to magic.
And in other texts the Daedra are flat out stated to themselves be et'Ada, and we all know they weren't giving any shit.

just remember this, heroes of TES games are doom driven and may even be shezzarine. these are good things to look up. basically, fate has placed them in the positions they are, because they are the only ones who can bring magic, steel and skill to the playing field and have the setting equivalent to plot armor protecting them.
the one thing to note setting wise for all the games is that, historically, while there have been tensions between all races to a degree, the world remains very open to all races to freely travel, even during war times, at least since the empire came to fruition.
while there is no reason for your argonian to be there and be dragonborn, and be doom driven/shezzarine, there really isnt a reason for them not to be either.

>That line is blatantly referring to the Earth Bone spirits
Fucking Akatosh is listed among them.
Please remember that Aedra literally means "our ancestors".

I think it had something to do with Mannimarco's ascension to godhood, and the subsequent appearance of the Necromancer's Moon.

Black soulgems can only be made during the Necromancer's Moon, and those are the only soulgems that can trap "black" souls of sapient beings.

No idea what's the deal with the degenerated Falmer and Giants, who seem to have varying degrees of white souls, though.

Except it doesn't make any sense in your case. I'd say 'nice try' but it was really just pathetic. Since you're apparently not baiting, it can only mean you're butthurt.

Considering WHEN the events in the quoted account you posted took place, the idea that it refers to literal everyday things is absurd. It's not even common sense. Worse, it's a critical failure of imagination.

Whatever floats your boat, user.

Yes, only when the Revenant is eclipsing Arkay (thus altering his law) is that black soulgems can be created.
Falmer having white souls is not much of a strecht, seeing that they are visibly degenerated and whe don't know exectly how and how far the dwemer altered them. Giant's souls are one more case of Todd dun goofed.

>it's not just there to say, "Hey player, look at these racist stormcloaks. They're racist."
If that were really the case there would be additional references to thesuffering if the dunmeri people as well as redemptive acts from stormcloaks.

The game also isn't primarily about the suffering of the dunmeri people but about the conflict between Skyrim nationalists and the Empire. The player is given a choice about which one to side with and as it stands that's no choice. Bethesda could have done a much better job making Stormcloaks sympathetic and the ghetto in Windhelm is a big problem in this context.

So what you're really gripping about is how the Stormcloaks aren't sympathetic enough?

I think they did a great job about making injustice in Windhelm, and even within the Stormcloaks fro one particular reason and that's because it's interesting. If you want a boring, peaceful, prosperous city for the flawless, and absolutely upstanding faction that Did Nothing Wrong™, you missed the point. That very theme was why Oblivion was boring and felt lifeless.

If your real concern is that the game and the lore favors the Empire, that simply isn't true. Right off the bat, you are found to be brothers in binds with Stormcloaks while at best the Imperials offer a sympathetic look before trying to behead you. Then when you leave, you learn about how absolutely great Talos is, and how the Nords can't worship their god because the Empire doesn't allow religious freedom. At this point, most casual players are already siding with the Stormcloaks.

Isn't there a nord war hero who helps out the dunmer? Aside from the two thugs in Windhelm I thought the general attitude was negligence and not malevolence. The nords are too busy with the war to bother helping the dunmer.

Don't you remember Morrowind, where you were called an outlander n'wah fetcher everywhere you went?

"In gratitude, the Emperor has recently endowed a new Imperial College of the Voice in Markarth, dedicated to returning the Way of the Voice to the ancient and honorable art of war. So it may be that the mighty deeds of the Nord heroes of old will soon be equaled or surpassed on the battlefields of the present day."

I really wish this piece of lore was implemented somewhere else other than the PGE

SHotN Markarth has it.

doom driven?

youtu.be/hmrMrXOIwAo

youtube.com/watch?v=-MnhhBoioCI

nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44747/?

Brilliant

To understand this video, you must know CHIM.

>that single shot of the mod tools

I fucking love this.

>tfw not leading a pogrom and cleansing windhelm of dirty elven leeches

yes

If the rest of the game had the quality of Dragonborn DLC then Skyrim would've been the best TES ever

For Windhelm i'd mostly scale it up like you did but with more variation.

The western part:
>A rich Nord quarter for the old noble clans and rich merchants.
>A tradesman quarter arround the merchant stalls and stores with a craftsman quarter right next to it.
>Most of the craftsmen are stone masons.
>Underground necropolis.

Centre of town:
>Temple square
>Central square with several inns.
>Lined with statues of Nordic heroes and historical figures.
>A public arena just by the entry way to the Jarls palace.

Gray quarter divided into at least 4 areas:
>A middle class area where Nords, Dunmer and other Immigrants mix peacefully because everyone accepted the local Nord culture and have a strong workers culture.
>A poor exclusively Dunmer area where they circlejerk in ''muh superior culture n'wah'' and generally disdain any work that isn't drug dealing or smugling while shitting on the Nords hospitality and getting into fights with Nord drunks who come for the barfights in their pubs.
>A labourer area where the not low class labourers of all races live and hate each other while trying hard to rise to the middle class.
>Port district where everything is in relative chaos and everything is run by gangs of sailors, trading companies owned by the local tycoon or the Jarls personal boats with Redguards and High elves being the most high profile criminals, with Bretons and Imperials lying low behind organized crime and Argonians, Wood elves and Khajeet commiting most of the petty crimes like stealing apples and such.

The surroundings:
>A lot of farms that utilize stone walls as wind shields.
>Mainly raising sheep, goats and other hardy livestock.
>Everyone fishes and has at least a small boat.
>Potatoes, Cabage and Leeks are the main produce with Snowberries being raised for both alcohol production and food.
>A few scattered crypts and old temples along the landscape.

No. It's mostly a reference to Sweden and how they handled immigration.

They stuffed them into a less valued part of town and let them stew there to rule them selves according to their own traditions.
The Argonians allready took the port jobs and are getting underpaid.
The Dunmer are split into two groups:
>one acccepted the Nord way of life and go over their pride to start over and work
>the other got their jimmies rustled by not being able to make it with Dunmer traditions and getting into brawls with drunken Nords

All solvable by simply sending in more guard patrols to beat the shit out of drunks who harras others (be it Nord or Dunmer) while offering work initiatives to everyone including the poorer Nords so they don't complain about others taking their jobs.

Hey the only leeches among the Elves are those 2 in the New Gnissis Corner Club and even then the tavenr owner only complains about Ulfric not sending down a few more guards to keep the order.
The ones that work on the farms or own them are pretty chill (no pun intended).

how will the skyrim civil war be retconned in tes vi?

Hundreds of, maybe a thousand, years later. No more empire. No more dominion. Almost a sort of post-apocalyptic Tamriel, but not completely dystopic. Long after a second Great War, that resulted in some sort of total collapse, though obviously not the destruction of Mundus. A cleaner, though still not blank, slate.
More opportunities for new stuff.

Both Tulius and Ulfric die either in battle or by the hands of Assasins.
The Stormcloacks and Imperials loose their influence now that they both lost their rulers and military leaders.
Balgruf rallies calls for a new moot and everyone attends.
He gets elected as High King by shaming the others for destroying their own lands and traditions while also spiting the stormucks by releasing the Ulfric file from the Thalmor embassy.
Then he proclaims authonomy from and a military alliance with the Empire.
Skyrim gets repopulated by people from Cyrodil who want to get away from Thalmor persecution and economic opportunities.
Most of the Jarls get replaced:
>The Jarl of Winterhold is now Tholfdir.
>The Jarl of Falkreath is replaced by someone new.
>Elsif abdicates her title in favour of her brother Falk.
>That retired Imperial couple take over Dawnstar.
>Markarth is purged in blood and taken over by Reachmen again regaining their authonomy, they get ruled by the Blades behind the scenes.
>Riften is now under Black-briar rule so they decided to restrain the thives-guild a bit to make sure violent crime at least is less rampart.

>so butthurt about a single questline that you want the series rebooted

ouch

this is a pretty impressive idea and seems like a fitting epilouge to tesv. also what about the dark brotherhood questline? having the emperor killed in a wartorn country would probably send the empire into chaos while elisif-skyrim grows stronger.

That's what I want regardless of the Civil War, actually. The whole Empire thing is clearly dead, can't last. The series needs to evolve. Skyrim was the stepping stone between the end of the Septim Dynasty Era and whatever comes next.

The Emperor died on the Sea.
The people actually responsible for this are allready dead (that council guy who hired you).
The Mede Dynasty is probably dead but we do not know if the Emperor had any heirs.
If he did then maybe the Empire doesn't sink into chaos.

It's a pity the Mede's reign was so short, considering their ancestors were the ones Septim stole the Dragonblood from

thats a pretty interesting way to look at it, but honestly i like the new lore in the 4e introduced in skyrim and id rather bethesda set the next game maybe five or ten years after skyrim in a tarmriel on the precipice of a second great war where the consequences of the last dragonborns actions can still be felt

Not really. The Empire couldn't have handled another decade of weak mede rule. After the retaking of the Capital, the Empire had its best shot at either pushing back the elves or telling them to fuck off. Every second wasted after that has lowered the chances the Empire can eventually win the elf/man conflict.

We can replace him with Fasendil then.
Nothing better than an Imperial Altmer dead set on removing Thalmor.

If only they hadn't stolen the Dragonblood everything would be better

Auriel is a soul of a soul of a soul. Things died but that does not mean they are dead.

>things die but it doesnt mean theyre dead

thats some trudeau 'kill your enemies and they win' tier logic

It just works

In the universe where afterlife is a thing even for the gods (see Lorkhan), I don't see a problem with the Divines being dead.

>just because you have sex with another man doesnt mean youre gay
>just because someone has a dick doesnt mean they are male

lady niggerlover and michael kuckbride is that you?

> >just because you have sex with another man doesnt mean youre gay
If it wears a skirt, it's a girl.

>milk finger

I was going to suggest a massive Falmer invasion of the surface that puts a halt on the civil war, but this sounds better.

You guys think the dragons will fuck off to akavir or is TLD gonna kill them all?

Since Paarthunax is possible to be killed then i'd say the dragons scatter and make lairs in siutable areas.
The Dragonborn would hardly want to waste time to hunt them down.
+Maybe they'll be smart enough to go to Atmora and defrost it before hauling in some slaves.