/STG/ - Star Trek General

How do y'all feel about fanships/kitbashes? I'm usually not a fan but I found the USS Shangri-La from Bill Krause the other day and I got to admit I fucking love it.

You guys got any fanmade trek designs you enjoy?

Depends a lot on the quality of the kitbash, many make the same mistakes that drawn designs do in fucking up the proportions and placement of components.

But good designs are good designs.

One more

underrated

Different ops, I assume. Previous one said he'd be gone till Sunday. Probably part of why the last thread died.

>Veeky Forums survives into the 24th century.

I don't want to think about that, honestly.

/pol/ Votes for Leyton.

Yeah, I saw the thread died and I was so goddamn excited about my T6 Miranda with phasers shooting from the Saratoga parts like I always dreamed of

>/pol/ votes for military ranks because they don't quite get how it works

seems legit

Does anyone have any good respurces for Star Fleet Battles?

I'm not an /stg/ regular, but can never find any good caches of scans for SFB...

There should be some under the "older licensed RPGs" paste-bin link in the op.

Could /pol/ even exist within the ideology of the United Federation of Planets?

I mean I guess you'd have to let them stay because of the Federations "Muh Infinite Diversity" mindset. But I feel that every time Season 1 Picard made a speach about how garbage humans used to be as opposed to how awesome and enlightened they are now he'd be imagining a /pol/ack and making a face like he just chugged a gallon of spoiled milk

Nah, checked there but its only the RPGs, not the old hex board/war game

Hey, guys, for unrelated reasons I just did some math in another thread and found something pretty cool.

Okay, so the Galaxy is about 100,000 lighyears wide but on average only 1,000 lightyears thick. In Star Trek: First Contact, Picard states that the Federation is eight thousand lightyears across. If we presume a rough sphere for the extent of the Federation's expansion, and that it's also expanded "up and down" as far as possible (1,000 ly), this gives us a rough cylinder that's 8,000 ly wide and 1,000 ly tall, for a total volume of 50,300,000,000 light years.

The Solar neighborhood (the area around the Sun) has a star density of about .004 stars per cubic light year. This means that the TNG-era Federation has about 201,200,000 stars in it.

So that's a lot. BUT, here's where things get neat. The Milky Way has between 200-400 billion stars in it. Nearly every single star that we've looked at appears to have at least one planet, so it can be conservatively guessed that there's between 200-400 billion planets in the Milky Way.

In TOS "Balance of Terror", Doctor McCoy states, "in this galaxy, there's a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets". If we presume this to mean "planets where humanoid life has evolved" (which, given the context, is likely). Given the number of stars in the Milky Way, this means that between .0015% and .00075% of all planets have humanoids, which when applied to the number of stars in the Federation, means that there's between 1,509 - 3,018 humanoid worlds within its bounds.

And THAT'S why it's okay for a prequel series like Enterprise or Discovery to introduce us to aliens we've never seen before.

Yes.

Yes it could.

Betazoids get free commission based on race.

Kirk wanted a Vulcan science officer in Star Trek the Slow Motion Picture, qualifications being a consideration after race.

Star Fleet were going to hand Worf over to the Klingons for a totally fair trial honest because he was ethnically Klingon. Never mind the fact that he was a UFP citizen.

Nausicaan captains are allowed to get away with literal murder and no trouble of this get sent back home.

Ferangi captains of the TNG era are all opportunistic state sponsored pirates, but are given free pass from serious consequence due to race.

It's perfectly ok to let a primitive society die out from something you could prevent. Unless they're humans.

Go fuck yourself, UFP would be a breeding ground for /pol/. Roddenberry might have been a "equality at all costs" hippie in theory but in practice he seemed to favour inequality.

I wonder what would have happened to a Constellation that got grabbed by the caretaker. Probably ripped apart in transit or assimilated when they hit Borg space.

>Roddenberry might have been a "equality at all costs" hippie in theory but in practice he seemed to favour inequality.
A case of his ideals clashing with the need to tell a good story. A "perfect" utopia of equality and diversity makes for a really boring setting.

So did the Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, and Cardassians just genocide all the other species within their borders? I can see the Klinks and Cardies doing it.

Not the Ferengi as that would be a waste of customers for them to swindle.

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>ferengi posts

The Cardassians were in the middle of one on Bajor so yes.

The Klingons have a history of taking other conquered races as second class citizens under the Empire.

The Romulans probably dance between the two depending on how paranoid they are that day.

What the fuck is this trash board?

I'll have a look and see if I can put something together

>vip
>not

>Star Fleet were going to hand Worf over to the Klingons for a totally fair trial honest because he was ethnically Klingon.
The trial he first had to be told about by his brother then travel all the way to Qo'noS on his own initiate for?

No, the other one.

The one where the colour coordinated klingon lawyer (wear black because evil) was trying to determine if he was acting "klingon in his heart".

The fact that Star Fleet was even willing to entertain the notion of extradition on a case that boiled down to muh feels is pretty fucking damning.

The Ferengi have a tiny territory. You'd still expect them to have a couple of other alien species within their borders based on those numbers, but it's plausible they just happened to be in an area of space with relatively low species density.

>
It's perfectly ok to let a primitive society die out from something you could prevent. Unless they're humans.

Source on the primitive human society thing? Are you sure they weren't just aliens that they didn't bother putting face-putty on?

Veeky Forums Pass users only. Literally pay to post, hence Ferengi.

The clones and the luddites.

Both primitive societies stated to be descend from Earth, old colony worlds set up before Earth joined the UFP, both faced with destruction from space stuff and neither capable of warp flight.

Enterprise helps them

In contrast Picard and crew watch a planet with a population in the millions die and then pontificate about how noble they were for doing so and upholding the Cosmic Plan. Worf's stepbrother saved a handful by commandeering the holodeck and the transporter.

When your official policy rests on some divinely ordained Cosmic Plan it's time to step back, reevaluate your shit and make things less shit. And drink heavily whilst considering the atrocity you used to allow.

He wasn't going to be extradited because he was a Klingon, but because he was accused of blowing up a ship full of Klingon civilians.

Which was not the argument the Klingon Lawyer was making.

They were trying to argue that if he was "truly klingon" then he would be subject to sharia law rather than UFP law.

Truly Klingon being determined by his conduct and feelings at the time.

Blowing up the ship was unfortunate on Worf's part. Feelings should not come into it.

Also it was battle.

In the time it takes to say

>O'Brian what is that decloaking
>It's rig'dehed transport vessel, sir

A lot of bad shit could have happened.

Fault should have landed with the hypothetical klingon captain for parking his ferry practically inside the Defiant's cannons, during a battle.

Because apparently space is only a few miles across and there's a limited number of parking spaces and shit.

Right, but they were brought to their new worlds by warp tech. Non-native and warp capable means they should fall under the purview of Starfleet, as the prime directive no longer applies. Especially seeing as they're human.

Under Federation law they are automatically guaranteed citizenship and protected by their status as a founder species.

I won't even try to defend Starfleet's stance of "no warp drive, no help" as it is fundamentally contradictory to the Space Samaritan image that the crew so often encapsulate. However, on a state level, I can see their justification. Again, I'll stress that I'm ot a fan of this particular TNG foible.

In "First Contact" (the episode, not the film) Picard speaks of some major fuck up caused by helping a developing species survive n extinction level event. As a result, the UFP has taken a much more protectionist stance in its interactions with undeveloped species. As a result of the political and popular fallout from this event, Starfleet has taken a much more hard-line stance on helping developing societies. If there is no pre-existing proof that your society can endure to warp capability, you don't matter as a species.

I always thought that whole trial was bullshit. It was basically a Romulan-esqe stacked deck plan to get support even though they are literally the most violent of the large powers in the Galaxy. Still a good episode though.

If I were the Starfleet judge in that case, and I'd been forced to find in favour of the Klingon appeal, I would have calmly explained to their lawyer that, as a result of the hostilities between the Federation and Klingon Empire, as well as the Klingon annulment of the Khitomer accords, no extradition treaty exists. Nor is it Federation policy to extradite criminals to empires with whom they are currently engaged in hostilities. However, if the Klingons are interested in exchanging war-criminals, then there is a long list of Klingon captains wanted for war crimes against Federation civilians. Otherwise, they can fuck right off.

The entire basis of that episode, even if Worf killed a bunch of civilians, was complete bullshit when the Klingons had absolutely no problems at all slaughtering civilians and medical personnel in other episodes.

You need to remember that the UFP is massively ass backwards when it comes to the laws of other races. They will basically bend over for most cultures if they talk enough bullshit.

The Prime Directive makes sense in most cases. If a species is not biologically and socially capable of warp flight, their development will get messed up by what appears to be divine intervention, thus provoking either cargo cult laziness or holy wars. Data also mentions that less than ten species who achieved spaceflight before political unity survived to become stable warp species. One of those was humans.

This doesn't mean exceptions can't be made, like if a planet is becoming uninhabitable through no fault of the people living there, but in 99% of cases, helping pre warp societies is either wasted effort or actively harmful.

Trash board is actually here:

So now you know. And I bet you wish you didn't.

It actually makes a good amount of sense if you view it as a "gotcha" plot. Gowron was absolutely terrified Worf would come in and remove him from power and install himself as Chancellor. What better way to reduce his standing in the eyes of the Federation (muh civilians) and the Klingons (hiding behind LAWYERS! THE HONORLESS DOG!) than this incident? Too bad it didn't work out.

>All those cargo and shuttle bays
There's a reason we never see these on the front lines in the Dominion War. As the Miranda variants show it's not because they're flying apart at the seams.

The Constellation was for archeological digs and major science efforts more than just about any ship class than the Oberth and the later Intrepid. Hell, it did the Oberth's job better because it had a crew of more than a handful.

>I won't even try to defend Starfleet's stance of "no warp drive, no help"

There must be plenty of worlds that develop subspace communication before warp drive, and plenty that are close enough to warp-capable civilizations to notice all these sudden stars and streaks across the sky, especially during major fleet actions like the Dominion war; then you've also got worlds which end up invaded by cultures that don't obey the PD, but who reveal the existence of the Federation and other aliens as a consequence of occupation. Considering the hypothetical case of such a world during the Dominion conflict for example, once the Dominion were forced to cede the territory unconditionally and withdraw from the Alpha Quadrant, such a world on the borders of Federation space would undoubtedly be aware of the Federation, of warp drive, and so on, but not necessarily in possession of the means to create warp drive (though in some cases they might conceivably be able to maintain captured examples for a time, even if they had no idea where to begin constructing new vessels).

The PD as shown would seem to indicate that those worlds would not receive Federation contact because they have not developed functioning warp drives of their own; however, ignoring cultures which possess such drives by other means (such as Ferengi) clearly doesn't happen; nor does the standard for First Contact between the Federation and these worlds apply, because they already know of the Federation, if indirectly.

Consider the Evora; rushed to the status of Protectorate after just three years. Contacted by the USS Magellan *before* achieving warp flight - though they achieved it the following year - and brought under protection of the Federation (though full membership is implied by that status to be some way off, presumably while they fully ratify the Fed's legal requirements into their own laws) as the need for allies during the war grew.

For a last minute, thrown together design, Constellation is a really neat ship with a definite purpose to it.

It was a patrol ship too. Oddly enough if you gave it a modern warp core (possibly what the Defiant has - four nacelles needs a lot of power) and shields and filled those roomy shuttlebays with Delta Flyers it'd be useful as a pocket carrier. The closest IRL equivalent to its role would be the small helicopter/amphibious focused ships like the Wasp or the Mistral.

vimeo.com/217336882

Just watched this. This... works.

I've long thought there's a good movie hiding in TMP, just waiting to be edited into existence from the over-abundance of existing footage. Cutting it to 22 minutes and setting it to the soundtrack of Tron: Legacy was not something I had considered but here we are.

Given fan-edits have long been a thing, have any of you come across any good ones for TMP that maybe just cut it down to a tight hour and a half (and fix the audio balance... hell I'll take an edit just for that)?

Bonus points if the edit doesn't massively cut down the Enterprise introduction, even though really that's the first thing to get chopped.

I unironically love that lumbering giant of a glory shot that goes on for 5 minutes.

Is anyone actually complaining that a prequel series has aliens we've never seen before?

Mostly I think it's because we never get to see some of the weirder ones like Arex or others when we introduce yet more aliens. I'd like to see Andorians (though they got a lot of exposure with Enterprise), Tellarites, and other species noted that we don't get to see much in live action.

The Prime Directive isn't "no warp drive no help". The warp drive thing is used as a convenient marker for when it's okay to initiate contact.

The Prime Directive applies to all non-Federation societies, and says only that it's Starfleet's policy not to intervene in the affairs of another culture, and to respect their laws when inside their jurisdictions.

Except those times when Picard uses that convenient marker to chicken out of interfering because of unintended consequences, and Riker argues that it might disrupt the "Cosmic Plan."

>Star Trek is inconsistent about the Prime Directive
Colour me surprised.

I really wish people would stop taking that out of context when a) they specifically were trying to bring up all possibilities, even metaphysical ones, b) Riker dismisses it literally his next line, and c) of all the people to consider a grander metaphysical reasoning and to understand how limited humanity is it would be the guy who briefly became a Q.

To be fair, it was mentioned in Drumhead that stuff like that was considered violations of the Prime Directive, and that it's entirely possible that even it can be bent or broken in reasonable ways. After all, "There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute." It's very much the spirit of the law that's more important than the letter of it.

Metaphysical concerns are irrelevant, because they're a.) unknowable, and b.) inapplicable because of a.).

Picard doesn't relent until he hears the message over the radio. So, basically, until he heard an actual plea for help, helping was off the table.

This is Star Trek we're talking about. "Unknowable" is not an excuse.

That was worth watching.

>Riker argues for the Cosmic Plan
>Riker was briefly given Q powers a few years prior
>The Cosmic Plan is something he did or put into motion
>Doesn't tell anyone
>The Riker Plan

Suddenly why the man gets into every set of panties onboard makes so much sense.

>Riker hates his clone hitting on Deanna
>clone does hard time in a Cardassian prison
>Riker wants Deanna and his own ship
>he gets the Titan with her as counselor
This actually makes sense...

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Uh huh. So, you should account for the unknowable through moral cowardice? Gotcha.

Makes sense. Riker is an ass.

To be continued?

I'd be cool with that. Really like this Mirror take on LaForge and the rest of the gang.

That was neat. It's good to see the Stargazer in action.

People were complaining about that with ENT. No doubt we're going to see more of it.

Better than the novels, for sure.

Are you saying dominatrix Troi from Dark Mirror is worse than this one? Ree.

Is that what she became? The only story that I read with her in it (from Shards and Shadows) was that she was the pure maiden manager of her mom's Best Brothel in Known Space (it contained what was left of the Betazoid race) who was only pure because she had no telepathic abilities, because her mom suppressed them for some (probably evil) reason. She then got her mom killed when Picard turned off her suppression at a key moment, so she raged and got the place blowed up good (along with the Duras sisters, I guess, which was why Picard was there in the first place).
MU novels are basically "everybody except Tuvok dies".