DM with group

>DM with group
>Tell them I like to go a little more lethally and play enemies smarter than most other people
>They run around thinking the game is skyrim and basically tick off every enemy they have publicly and announce who they are.
>Wind up dying surrounded on all sides by a handful of enemies
>"Okaaaaay"
>Try again, give more helpful hints but let them know that the enemy aren't just brain dead WRPG pawns that will just auto-path to them
>They die again after once more alerting three different opposing factions that they are aligned against all of them at the most tactfully disadvantageous position.
>Think it might be because we're playing a game that basically gives them super powers
>Alright, let's try OSR
>Explain all the ins and outs of a more narrative and player-skill focused game and include examples
>5 minutes in, they've literally forgotten everything and walk into a trap, causing a full part reroll.
>A trap that was designed to only wound ONE person at a time.
>Try again, this time give them an NPC guide that tells them the ins and outs of everything
>They walk into a goblin nest that severly outnumbered them
>Ignore NPC's warnings about surrendering and bribery
>Die
>Well, they get complicated rules alright. Maybe it's the dungeon setting? Maybe they need something more modern to ease them into the mindset?
>Try Shadowrun
>...I don't even want to talk about it
>Fine, I'll let someone else DM. Maybe I'm the problem?
>Most push over DM of the group is elected
>Playing a very normal human rogue with no special flares, while everyone else managed to talk the DM into making special snowflake characters/races to be who they want to be
>Miss a single session
>Party almost completely wiped themselves without my advice guiding them
>I have to FIGHT with them to not just rush into clearly dangerous situations that will guarantee certain death

I'm tired of making excuses for myself. How do I deal with the fact that I have stupid players?

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Kill them all

Leave and get a better group. You can't fix stupid.

If they want Skyrim, give them Skyrim. Put on the kiddy gloves and make sure they can win everything without challenge, because their stupid asses aren't going to change their behavior even when they've died each time. You'll hate running it for them, but they'll have fun.

>but I don't-

Find a new group then. You've already done everything in your power to make things work and change things up, and they haven't. All you can do now is change your group.

That's pretty shit but I mean maybe just keep at it? Do a load of lethal one shots like in OSR stuff. Take the Dark Souls approach and let them just fucking get rekt till they manage to get a handle on a lethal setting.

Are they upset about it? Or are they having some amount of fun even if they die? If it's the latter then you're fine, they'll learn, even if slowly. Or maybe try and softly adjust them with something like Paranoia where lethality is high but doesn't end the game immediately.

They clearly don't want to play a challenging and lethal game, so either run something different or find a new group.

Maybe your group want to spend their free time having fun with a few friends rather than running through your sadistic murder gauntlet?

Skyrim is popular for a reason , sometimes people want the simplicity of killing some dragons, getting some loot and saving the day, rather than getting kicked in the balls repeatedly for not being able to read your notes.

Even games like Dark Souls only really work because you can respawn quickly and easily and retrace your steps so you learn from your mistakes while playing.

Your games sound like Dark Souls but the first time you did you have to burn the game disc and play something else.

>requiring the barest amount of critical thinking isn't fun
There you have it.

>Try Shadowrun
>...I don't even want to talk about it

Don't leave us hanging like that OP

I've played in murder autist games before, it's less about critical thinking more about trying to work out the one specific way the GM has designed the scenario to win. Anything else results in player death. That and random 'lol got u' moments which are literally just save or die.

My "that GM" detector is going off.

Seems you want different experiences than they do.

Perhaps they are not in for the game and actually like to play because they get to be with their friends, but don't really care about the roleplaying.

>play a very normal human rogue

>Kill them all
>Leave and get a better group.

I disagree with these two gentlemen. You've got a rogue. Let them TPK while you hide, hand a note to the DM that you take their nicer trinkets from their corpses, then say aloud that you'll go to get help. Repeat until you're so powerful that you no longer need them.

man user you're so smart, it's not like if you stray off the path you will get FUCKING LOST.


also the fact that you consider finding the path that the DM will be hinting at is critical thinking shows how fucking dumb you are

Reading comprehension is a useful skill, user.

I haven't played Skyrim but isn't it a sandbox game? Can't you wander into enemies that are too tough, like that first bandit cave in Morrowind?

This

No, enemies always match your level wherever you are, whether you wander the roads or in literal hell

Not really. Skyrim did a thing where enemy levels scale to you across the world. A camp full of basic bandits will be full of bandit outlaws if you fight them later.

There are some things that don't scale up or don't scale down, but generally you can walk into most places and have a fair fight.

But if there's a demon or a dragon or something it's still a tough monster, even if you wander in there at level 1? Right?

Morrowind had tough humans from the start and Daggerfall had that FUCKING IMP.

and yet still I can't comprehend what is trying to get at

I mean... a bit? The real tough stuff doesn't even spawn at very low levels, or if it does (for quest reasons) it's essentially a giant inflatable version.

Welcome to the poison that is level scaling. 99% of locations in-game will just spawn basic skeletons or rats or spiders if you wander in at low levels.

How is it fun to play a social game like you're some conniving bastard trying to get the best single-player experience?

Technically yeah, but it's a tough monster for your level. Challenging, but not unbeatable. You're technically able to go anywhere and fight anything with a reasonable chance of success. I found Spriggans tough early on, but they got easier. Dragon Priests were tough for me throughout my playtime, but I bet if I had gotten more combat perks, it'd be easier.

Also, that Imp was tough in an unfair way, not in a 'you really weren't supposed to fight this yet' way. You were expected to be able to fight it with magic, but the game doesn't explain that you need a magic pool bonus for it to be feasible, or that your first spell probably won't kill it in one hit. So you gotta wait until you find a better weapon later on in the dungeon (if at all), or hope to get an ebony dagger from the starting questions. It's a cheap shot compared to Morrowind, where eventually you'll be able to take on tough stuff.

>Also, that Imp was tough in an unfair way, not in a 'you really weren't supposed to fight this yet' way.

I disagree. It's been 10+ years since I last played, but the game flat out tells you that you aren't harming it. So you close the door and you leg it. You learn that exploration is dangerous and you can't just "fight anything with a reasonable chance of success". Going back to that dungeon and clearing it out is one of the most satisfying things you can do in Daggerfall.

Tell em theyre dumb, tell em now and as honest as you can.

you think its bad now, wait until you get players who have never had a tactically smart GM and have been playing for a long time, youll be fucked.

>That guy GM thread@!!!@#@$#

He tried. They just rerolled.
>Incase you're talking about the players; grab some rope and gasoline.

>My "that GM" detector is going off.
I dunno. If they wiped themselves out when he wasn't there to hold their hand they may just be retarded.

Have you tried ASKING THEM what type of game they want, rather than deciding on something ahead of time that they don't give a shit about?

> DM wants it one way

> Everybody else wants it another

> "It's MY game not yours!"

It's everybody's game, and it sounds like they'd have a better game with a better DM.

>party keeps on playing the game the same way every time, no matter what you warn them about, what setting, or what you do
>"something must be wrong with them"

All that's missing is that Simpsons clip with Skinner going 'no it is the children that are wrong.'

Trolls are a pain in the ass to fight at low level because they regen health, but at higher levels when you can throw fire for literally days even they become just another monster to farm.

Shouldn't retards get to have fun in ttrpgs, too?

Pretty much any giant will pulp you if you run into it before level 10-15 or so. Other than that, ehh, not really.

Why?

You clearly didn't read the OP post

youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZ2PPOLik

On the other hand, they keep showing up to his sessions. So maybe they're still having fun despite frequent deaths?

Not OP, but I've had something similar; often with murderhobos whom I sic the law on hard in an attempt to dissuade them from murderhoboing. This results in TPKs, enthusiastic bubbling about how great the game was, and wondering when I can make a new game so we can do it all over again.