MARVEL IS BANNED

They have TERRIBLE testing. Granted there's ALWAYS shit that'll slip through the cracks, but wizards just has flat out bad testers, I think it's cause it's all the same people from years ago and they've fallen into patterns.
This issue is magnified with them becoming so neurotic about accidentally printing overpowered cards that they keep fucking making broke ass cards that are answers to "OP" cards that were never good ever.
At least it's not plain malice like eastern TCGs

They don't know what is going to be good.

Well Wotc testing in general isn't great, but recently they've been "pushing" cards for flavor reason (read: to sell more packs). Cards that they purposefully make powerful have a tendency to be overpowered.

It's always funny when one of their super pushed cards flops though

>lets ban good cards to force diversity

they could've just unbanned reflector mage and nature would sort itself out

>Cards that they purposefully make powerful have a tendency to be overpowered.
I don't see any marvel deck on vintage
the true reason is standard has become literally a playground for babies

>card is not Vintage-tier
>that means it isn't overpowered for Standard
ayy lmao

Yep. Standard has only been allowed to be midrange decks for years and years now. Pretty much the reason I stopped playing Standard.

Their balancing is off from time to time. In the case with marvel they probably didn't think you could consistently get enough energy to activate it and play it on turn 4, but it turned out you can.

And honestly it is better this way. Many other card games feel like the developers are making strict decks and breaking them up into boosters. The only choice you have is to pick one and put together the obviously good together cards. At least in magic there is a little bit of variety in that respect.

>At least it's not plain malice like eastern TCGs
What does that mean

lol WotC is such a joke. They've been a joke for years, and we're just now getting to the punchline. They listened to little Timmy whine about good removal and counterspells, and now they're reaping the consequences. This is why you need counterspells, dipshits. This is why you need control. If you don't print answers your meta becomes overrun with the most effecient threat of the week.

New strategy to make your stupid homebrew playable: bitch constantly at WotC until they ban any deck you lose to

"Ban what wins so that you HAVE to buy the next set, regardless of if the next set is stronger or not."

Then you realize that having constant bannings is still preferable to dealing with insufferable control players.

Sorry someone countered your Craw Wurm, Timmy. We'll be sure to ban anything that intrudes on your safe space!

This.
While I do think removal needs a little boost, I'd rather threats actually having some presence than deal with fedora control taking 2 minutes to decide whether counter a spell or kill it end of turn instead.
I miss INN/RTR Standard most of all, creatures were powerful but so were the answers.

>anyone who isn't playing control is just a Timmy
I bet you unironically say Magic: The Tappening too.

The funny part is that control players are the biggest whiners I've ever encountered in the game, right next to small children.

>overpowered for Standard
Here is the problem. babies like you don't want good cards because then you have to learn to play, and when a good card slips, even if it's really just a mediocre and uninpactful card, cry for a ban

YGO as an example, it's in the rules at konami that whatever deck wins that year's world championships MUST have at least two cards from the maindeck banned on the next banlist. That is a requirement from the company, regardless of what that does to the meta. Though is also correct, they'll ban cards from the top archetypes to push their new top archetype

Honestly, they might as well go the whole nine yards and update the ban policy to "Ban whatever Saffron Olive thinks we should ban"

Walking Ballista is played in the best deck in Vintage, doesn't mean it deserves to be banned
It's about the rest of the environment. Marvel would have been fine design if it entered tapped and had a higher cost to play, and maybe sacced itself like Gonti's does.

Marvel isn't even close to being playable in Modern, you WoTC employee.

Control has also been getting shafted harder than literally everything because of whining fags that can't handle getting their shit countered
Sorry that people want their games to go past turn 6

>implying I even play Standard
>implying Vintage requires any more skill than Standard
Troll harder.

or if they just printed good card like thoughtseize, counterspell, heck even fucking phyrexian revoker or fucking thalia guardian of thraben

Man, I PLAY home brews and I could beat marvel. Throw in four negate and call it good. Don't throw this on home brewers, this is the fault of inflexible net deckers who can't plan for a meta.

You're the reason why Magic: The Tappening is so shit. Please go back to Hearthstone.

Sorry that some people play for fun. Learn to play a color combo that doesn't necessitate griefing your opponents into the ground in order to win.

No, not everyone. There are definitely players who play aggro/midrange and understand why good answers are good for the game. It's not that everyone who plays not-control is little Timmy, it's that little Timmy is why Wizards killed control.

UR is literally just a pile of counters to beat marvel and guess what? it wasn't enough to stop it, didn't even have a winning record against it

>Sorry that some people play for fun.
I have fun playing belcher.dec against casualfags like you

>being this much of a whiny simpleton

>play four negates mainboard
>auto-scoop to g/b and zombies

Seems like a good plan if you want to go 2-2 at an FNM or have fun at a kitchen table, but at a GP where you have to go the distance and play through many rounds, it's going to kill you because you have to hedge your bets. You won't face marvel every round. Your deck will have to be robust. That's why marvel itself is such a strong deck at higher levels at GP's, as stated in the article. It has a broad range of good matchups, unlike the decks that run well against it, which have polarizing matchups.

UR Control didn't have a winning record against it but Temur Energy, RG Pummeler, Vehicles/Flash, and BG all did

so I'm not sure that's a great point for you

Ouch, that's ridiculous.

It can be paired with...what, two or three or four different effects that depend on having a big graveyard? And costs you nothing to benefit from doing so?

>Sorry that people want their games to go past turn 6
Such great and interactive games they are too. Truly, doing nothing but drawing cards and countering spells until you play your one inevitable threat is what all patricians should be striving for. Does a deck show up that can go under or over control? Why, it just needs a banning of course!

Anyone who finds that dull and uninteresting should just leave the game. Who cares if sales decline when you can finally have that T0 control deck and have hour long mirror matches with other elite control players like yourself?

>good cards
>learn to play
Yeah playing the broken deck of the month takes lots of skill

holy shit dude are you ok?

But all that demonstrates is that it's a good deck. It doesn't demonstrate that it's unbeatable or degenerate.

The very fact that you CAN'T just go all-out against Marvel demonstrates that it's a relatively healthy metagame. If Marvel was as good as people say, everyone would play it and you could sell out against it.

Officially it's because of shit play testing procedures.

Some would say that it's been an intentional process for the last year to ramp up excitement for the new set by having obviously busted cards in it and then ban them when people start to complain about how oppressive they are so that they keep playing.

>you need to l2p for fucking marvel
Knowing that you can not only turn sideways creatures but also artifacts is kind of a big hurdle, right

>Such great and interactive games they are too. Truly, doing nothing but playing your topdeck and turning cards sideways until someone's life total reaches 0 is what all patricians should be striving for. Does a deck show up that can go under or over aggro? Why, it just needs a banning of course!

Marvel is that good though. It was overrepresented at competitive events. You're an idiot.

The deck was 43% of the field going Day 2 at GP Amsterdam. That makes it the best deck by a fair margin.
It was 50% of the Top 32

Stay sour because you can't use your Tap-I-Win cards anymore

Also you cannot accurately predict what sets will truly be dominant in the hands of the players. Devs simply cannot compete with the colossal optimisation process of putting the game into the hands of the audience, who has the capacity to grind out the best cards through literally billions of games played. Devs could do more to improve their internal testing ofc but if you're making a game and are able to see the all optimal paths during development, you've either made a game with no complexity or are a wizard

Fuck off maro

>you've either made a game with no complexity or are a wizard
>Wizards of the Coast
>wizard
>Wizards

IT'S IN. THE FUCKING. NAME

FUCK

I agree that it was the best deck, but there's always going to be a best deck. You can't just ban the best deck every Standard. That's my whole point.

Spell queller is showing up in mardu lists because of marvel. Some even main board it. There's decks that mainboard multiple copies of artifact hate specifically because the field has so many marvel decks. And these decks can perform well against marvel.

I don't have an issue with you stating "people should just build differently" because I agree. There's a weird metagame where certain decks exist in top 32's because they have a good marvel matchup. But 4 negates, specifically, isn't the answer.

Banning seemed a bit over the edge but whatever. Wizards keeps banning the tier 1 deck of the moment. I've lost any faith in standard until this new design team they've thought of starts to show it's work past ixalan.

You're an idiot.

they haven't even been trying to remotely attempt to optimize decks in testing lmao, the stories that come out of of wotc's ffl sound like middle school discussions of decks
>dude todd's got the deck to beat, when the draw is real he easily kills you turn 8 with his blue red goblins

Even if you think that Marvel was too dominant for the format, Wizards explicitly doesn't, and didn't ban it for that reason

>being this much of a dick in a discussion about cards.
wew

To be fair, it's far more business than actually caring about whether or not the deck is good. Most players are god awful anyway, and short of building them a "Good" deck, they have no chance. (I fall into this category myself, so perhaps it's a bit of projecting.)

So by banning these seemingly "Best Decks" every so often, the shittier guys, who got their ass kicked by it feel better. Thus, enabling a cycle of shitty players who feel like they are listened to and pay more money, while the elite keep kicking ass and just get pissed when their decks are fucked.

well there goes my best match up, but also now I can build janky midrange instead of janky aggro

Yugioh has cards that are still on the banlist solely because the deck won hard at their Worlds Championship, despite the fact that in the current meta the deck would suck dick.

The joke here is that despite not being the strongest deck Mentor decks got hurt with Gush being hit, then proceeded to be one of the strongest decks anyway because WotC doesn't give a fuck about Vintage and neither does anybody else.

Because if they ban them before they're sold, they lose out on money.

HOW DO THEY KEEP COCKING THE SYSTEM UP!?!

Thing is, this is unprecedented. There are 4 fucking cards banned in Standard currently; They haven't needed to ban standard cards since 2011, and they haven't needed to ban 4+ standard cards in over a decade.

Am I wrong or would this card be good in every eldrazi deck ever?

>spawn go into graveyard
>free major eldrazi after like 4 turns

That's basically what was happening. Turn 4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless hunger. Casted.

If not him then some other huge fatty of the "Fuck you" variety.

The energy enablers aren't good enough outside of Standard, and it's too slow otherwise.

Except for when the deck lost to itself and revealed five lands and one Attune with Aether.

You don't even need to play Eldrazi spawn, you just play cards that give you energy and/or sacrifice

(Also, I'm pretty sure that tokens like Eldrazi Spawn wouldn't trigger Marvel since they never actually go to the GY)

>since they never actually go to the GY
Tokens go to the graveyard. They just don't stay there.

Tokens do go to the graveyard, they just cease to exist once they get there.

True

tokens basically hit the graveyard for effect purposes and then disappear.

Tokens go to the graveyard and trigger effects.

Second part meant for

Seriously? I didn't think they did. FUCK I've lost games over this. At least they were casual games so they don't matter, but still.

Many death triggers specify nontoken specifically because of this.

Yep. What happens is that the token goes to the graveyard, and then is removed as a state-based action.

704.5d If a token is phased out, or is in a zone other than the battlefield, it ceases to exist.

>Too Strong for Standard.

They forgot to ban Gideon...

Back to 50% Mardu vehicles meta
hooray......

mardu vehicles was only 50% of the meta when the other 50% was cat combo retard

They shouldnt had done this.

They just want to make sure you can still play the hot new Gideon Tribal deck

It's not unprecedented, the combo winter happened. It's just been a very long time since they fucked up this bad.

there were more cards banned during urza block and original mirrodin

The Mirrodin one is kinda dubious since it includes a cycle of cards that are all the same as far as design is concerned.

Exactly! Combo winter almost killed the game; we're nowhere near that, yet they still need to ban 4+ cards?

Right but what is the big boogeyman card left in the format?
The only one left in the format?

What deck abuses it harder than all the others and now no longer has to run blue to fight vs marvel?
What deck crushes all control decks, GB decks, and is just an all around better version of the current UW decks?

What deck will crap all over this new RUG energy deck?
What deck plays the most unfair cards, the most consistent 3 color manabase in standard and a diversity of threats that literally cannot be answers?

What deck can still consistently win on turn 4?

That's right only Mardu
Without banning Gideon we have been made to suffer this agro shitstorn until fucking at least HoD and possibly much longer

I hope I'm wrong but I know I'm not...

Mirrodin.

Even if you decide to count the artifact land cycle as a single card, that's still at least our cards banned in Standard at the time.

Lets just have KLD/AER cycle out with Zendikar2:ElectricBoogaloo and keep SOI Block in standard.

This is exactly what happens if you stop printing disruption.

I agree. I don't know what the fuck happened.

See The Mirrodin bannings were effectively "decks that spam artifacts are too strong, we're nerfing them." Do you see anything so cohesive here?

I would be ok with this

Is this a prime example of the olde say "Veeky Forums is bad at magic"?

No? Mirrodin was 3 cards + artifact lands, this is 5 cards now.

If they've learnt anything they'll know to make bans before the game gets anywhere near as bad as combo winter

Oh misread your type. Yes it's four, now is 5. And as I said here the Mirrodin bannings were a series of cards with too much synergy with each other. This is just random goodstuff.