What do you do when players are retarded?

Not a single one of them has a ranged weapon.

That's really dumb. I can understand them being cautious and not wanting to release her while still surrounded, but killing her gains them nothing.

The most fair way I could see to go forward is to tell them that the man gets a pained look on his face, and meanwhile the archers get a round of attacks off on them as he's grieving. Then you can let them make some bluff/intimidate checks to try and 'manipulate' him into fighting them on more even footing. Give it a high DC, but some bonus to offset it, and tell them that they can keep making it over rounds. Ideally, they'll fail and you describe that he's still in shock and not hearing them, as they continue to get pelted by archers.

By the time he drops down, they should basically be dead already, even if they do trick him into A) jumping down and B) calling off his archers.

Isn't that just the fucking cherry on this dumbass cake, they deserve to roll new characters

>walk into castle of mastermind
>walk into a trap
>kill your only hostage
>have no ranged weapons

You can still play it out, in case they pull something off, but that's a perfect storm of retarded that I'm unsure even they could complain about

Then won't it be interesting to see how they get out of that situation?

Or it will be cathartic when they can't.

Well, they killed his daughter while she was helpless. So now it's time for them to die the same way to his many archers. And now that he has even less weaknesses, he's going to be harder to deal with, so congratulations, user's players!

And no, you can't fix stupid players.

Give them new character sheets after you kill these fuckers dead.

Next time just make the BBEG a big retarded ogre warlord that's united a bunch of monsters or something. Probably the only thing your players can outsmart.

(OP)
>play stupid games, win stupid prizes
This, OP. Just smoke 'em. They played the Retard Lottery and won the grand prize. Have the archers open fire, play it out, and make them roll to see if they cry, and if so, how hard.

Talk to them individually since you're between sessions. Lead off by asking what their idea for their new character is. If they ask what you mean, point out how they made that many dumb decisions and it should be obvious that their plan was bad.

Talking to them one at a time reduces the odds that they'll bitchfit and try and drown you out with numbers, and makes it more likely you'll be able to calmly explain to them and make them see their folly.

Then, once that's done, at the start of the next session you can either have everyone reroll after a TPK, or ask them if they'd rather retcon and do something else with their hostage.

>describing just how exactly they desecrated the body

...um.

I feel like these might be more to this story.

i have a friend who insists on playing as the rebellious dude who don't need no group every game regardless of alignment or type of character he creates beforehand.
it is annoying as fuck considering he's an absolute moron with no planning nor critical thinking skills.

Still, play it out round by round. Even if you're absolutely sure there's nothing they can do to get out of it, sometimes players get surprisingly crafty when they're staring death in the face.

Mostly, though, it's because it's frustrating to be hit with a "You Died" from the GM. It makes it feel like it was the GM's plan from the beginning to kill you, so give them a chance, as minuscule or nonexistent as it might be. Let them watch their characters die, even if just so they can't come back at you with "uh but I totally could've gotten out of that if you let us try" or calling it a railroad.

Imagine a bunch of fat, greasy dudes who think they're extremely smart and intelligent.

Now imagine what they might say they do to a dead child in order to get a rise out of somebody.

Whatever you're picturing is probably about what they're saying.

>Don't be afraid to kill players.
If you're going to give this advice, at least post the screencap describing how to hide the bodies.

You made one mistake OP. You should have started combat right there. You should ask them to prepare back up characters right now so you don't have to waste any time after you smoke them at the start of the next session.

treat them all to a vacation in china and let a landslide do all the work

No, that's not going to do it, I'm going to need details.

For, uh

Science

>have villain's daughter as a hostage
>don't even try to seduce her
fucking amateurs

Rubbermaid bins and lye are much cheaper.
I forget the other steps, milk maybe?

Now I don't claim to be the most brilliant RPG player, but jesus fucking christ OP.

>>don't even try to seduce her
this never ends well, the sperglord of the party just ends up trying to rape her and everybody leaves the session uncomfortable as hell

A feel like everyone being tired because its late lends itself well to the mood of a slow, miserable execution that's not going to be fun for anyone.

I sense potential in this thread.

Precisely what did the players do, OP?

>IC rape at the table is a serious concern
Man what the fuck kind of group do you play with

If it's one guy, kick him

If it's everyone, join in

If it's some of them, leave and take the salvageable players with you

Do NOT play out a sure-death situation unless the players agree to it. Nothing is worse than playing a 100% failure path. It's just the DM wanking off, no matter HOW badly the players deserve it.

Now, if they ASK you to play it out round by round? Fine. Gloves are off.

my friends from high school aren't the same people they used to be
but they're still the only friends i have.
games used to be fun and interesting now it's all the same. vidya and anime have rotted their brains, they do shit just to be edgy and le xD ebin now. it's annoying as hell.

the players deserve this, they did some stupid shit and now they have to face the consequences, out of the DM's hands.

>It's just the DM wanking off, no matter HOW badly the players deserve it.
>NO
>MATTER
>HOW BADLY
>THE PLAYERS DESERVE IT

These players seem dumb enough that acting like they got really close and it would have worked if they had rolled a bit better would totally fly

How fucking young are you to still be hanging out with people you knew in high school? Make new friends. Play with coworkers. Fucking use the internet if you have to.

Or, maybe the reason you think all your friends are terrible is because you yourself are the terrible one. Might explain why you haven't made any new friends in so long.

I'm sure they expect combat to happen, one way or another. The suggestion to play it round-by-round is more on the off-chance that they come up with a means of escape, like breaking down the doors behind them or whatever magical shenanigans they're capable of. They walked into a death trap, sure, but it would be unfair (in the players' minds) to slap them with a "GAME OVER" screen as soon as they killed the daughter. GM wankery or not, it's better for both sides if it gets played out round for round.

it's literally not the DM wanking off you dumb shit
the DM told them not to do this
the DM told the exact consequences of their action
the players then did that and went a step further
the DM in no way wanted this to happen
the DM actively tried to stop this from happening
the DM had to stop the game because he doesn't know if he can salvage the situation yet
HOW
IS
THIS
THE
DM
WANKING
OFF
YOU
DUMB
ILLITERATE
PIECE
OF
SHIT
THE
PLAYERS
ARE
NOT
ABOVE
THE
RULES.
THE RULES DEFINE THE GAME, THE GAME CEASES TO EXIST WITHOUT RULES. ARE THEY PLAYING A GAME OR JUST CIRCLEJERKING?

Just continuously kill them off in a really shitty way

i'm 24, we're all still living near each other after college.
my coworkers/classmates don't like playing, i tried a local game shop but i can't commit the time some of those guys want since i'm in med school

No, having been the player on the other end of this a few times, and having consulted with numerous players in my area, no it's not. Nobody likes sitting around while people roll numbers up to slowly kill you. Evidence: People who regularly complain when the DM tries to kidnap their PC at the start of the game by holding battles they cannot win. It's made worse because the player is naturally led to believe that "There is gameplay happening, therefore there is a win condition". As much as nerds love talking about the Kobayashi Maru, nobody likes those situations.

What the DM should do in those situations: Close his book and inform the party that he doesn't believe that there is anything they could do to escape the situation. The party will naturally throw out ideas. Calmly discuss with them why they would not work. If they throw out a good idea, then yeah, roleplay THAT out. Otherwise, just let them know their characters are as good as dead now.

It's wanking off because the DM is the only one doing anything, which is killing off his players to vent frustrations. That's the epitome of metaphorical wankery.
>Trying to play the rules and "muh player agency" card
>In a social game
Enjoy having your players slowly trickle out of your life with "sudden shift changes" and the like.

That is Chaotic Stupid.

...

I have a dude like that in my game. Before we made characters, everyone was told the premise was that they're part of this organization, and for whatever reason, he wants absolutely nothing to do with said organization.

Gettin' to the point where I'ma bout to tell him to either make a character who wants to be with them, or to fuck off

You want the greentext, here comes the greentext

>players are villagers-turned-rebels, fighting against a corrupt duke and his army of advisors
>saved their village from the corrupt knight/landlord
>this has attracted the attention of the tax collector for the duke
>Tax collector is renown for his cunning and scheming, and some say he plans to overthrow the duke
>they attempt to hunt him down through several lairs in the area
>they all have the common theme of "ostentatious shit is the wrong way, plain stuff is the right way to go"
>after deciding to rush one location because they just found out he would be there instead of resting, they luck out
>hear about his family that he has living in a completely unrelated area
>they bust down the family's doors, kill his wife for 'allowing such evil to live'
>grab his daughter, treat her like shit for being 'the spawn of evil'
>they trail her behind their horses, don't give her any shoes and really shitty food,
>not even a blanket to sleep on during the night because 'the peasants your father stole from often froze to death'
>head to his fort that no one has ever come back from, save the tax collector and his goons
>a random bum outside tells them that the back entrance is totally the way to sneak in
>they go to the back, servants are there, PCs threaten the servants if they don't help
>servants tell them that if they wait, they'll bring out the tax collector
>instead servants shut the doors and fetch soldiers to start fighting them
>they massacre the soldiers, and when inside they kill the servants
>because they helped a monster instead of serving justice
>inside they are faced with a really nice door, and two plain doors
>obviously all the previous nice doors are actually a trap for his fortress
>it's made to make people think that the nice door be a trap, but it's really the way to go

(1/2)

The daughter, grown up, from the future, steps out of a time portal and rescues them from her father at the last possible second.

Plot ensues.

>they go into the nice room, doors are shut behind them, and tax collector shows up
>tells them that if they give him back his daughter, he will let them bumble out
>they refuse, say he should come down and duel them for his daughter
>he obviously refuses, tells them that they're not in a position to bargain
>they tell him if he doesn't listen, they'll kill the kid
>collector says if they kill the daughter, he will massacre them and their entire families
>one of them practically rees and murders the kid
>I pause the game, tell them it's a bad idea, retcon back
>have the kid tell them what's up, and says so again OOC, they start discussing
>then one of them says he won't fall for their lies and that he's going to make the tax collector hurt
>kills the kid, describes how he licks the daughter's tears as she bleeds out
>one of starts describing how he takes blood and smears it on the kid's face
>the last says he eviscerates the kid and starts playing with the guts
>they move on to groping and molesting a dying girl
>I halt the game there, saying it's a cliffhanger and we'll resume next session
>they're high-fiving each other for "backing the GM into a corner" and "disrupting his plans"
> I go home, make this thread

2/2. That's what fucking happened.

What? How the fuck does this make sense? Players aren't above taking responsibility for their actions just because "muh social game". Actions have consequences, and if players aren't able to accept that on a world of make believe, then good fucking riddance.

Kill your players, they definitely deserve it. Not their characters.

You're half right, but there comes a point where consequences just become "the DM rubbing your nose into shit" as a fellow player of mine explained to our DM the last time he railroaded us. I'm not saying "Make them avert their consequences", that's what the other user is trying to do by making them play it out. I'm saying just do a fade-out, except instead of sex going on, their characters get fucked.

You say this is dumb by the players not really if you look at it differently.

The villain is a trickster guy and I can assume he's lied, broke promises and has caused pain to the players. Now they have his daughter and are completely surrounded right? Is there a magic contract that prevents the trickster villain from killing all the players after getting his daughter back. They probably thought it was the best way to hurt the guy before they died an unavoidable death.

Villains never just say "Ok I got what I want, now to hold up my end of the bargain"

>they're high-fiving each other for "backing the GM into a corner" and "disrupting his plans"

There's no saving this kind of stupid. I mean, my group has done some retarded shit, but this is leaps and bounds past what they would do. Kill Thier characters in the quickest way possible without it feeling like a railroad and take a break for a month or two if you don't leave these mouth-breathing morons.

sometimes you just gotta laugh at the absurdity of the situation.

Case in point: Playing a Dark Crusade campaign, the PCs are trying to get this abandoned sword-class Frigate to a dry dock so they could have it repaired so they could use it as a base of operations. The ship is in terrible shape, the weapon systems are outright gone 75% of the ship is depressurized or otherwise inoperable due to battle-damage, and of the typical 26,000 crew these ships normally have, they need to limp it to port with the 5000 slaves they brought with them plus the few thousand surviving bilge-scum that have been promoted to crew members. not impossible to get to a port-of-call but not easy. That's when a Repulsive-class grand cruiser comes out of the warp and the clearly unhinged sorcerer commanding it claims that the frigate belongs to him. A sword-class Frigate is about 1.6 kilometers long and as I said it's on it's last legs, a Repulsive is 7.4 kilometers long and bristling with weapons. So what does the party's World Eater do? Why issue the sorcerer a challenge of course! The rest of the party ended up going with a better plan than ram a Grand Cruiser with a falling-apart Frigate, but the fact that this option was even flown was hilarious.

what part are you not believing?

Except that's still retarded, because by that logic you're dead as soon as you enter.

But OP specifically told them it would work, and even if they doubted they decided to kill their only bargaining chip instead of walking out the door with her and then negotiating her release once they were more sure they were safe.

Well, they are correct. They did back OP into a corner and disrupt his plans.

It's just that his plans were ways to avoid killing them for their stupidity, and the corner they've backed him into is the one that results in their death.

>Gettin' to the point where I'ma bout to tell him to either make a character who wants to be with them, or to fuck off
i wanted to write a special campaign, i don't even remember all the details, but it essentially had to do with everyone starting off in a very holy, nice, everyone friendly town that slowly gets corrupted. the players get to a point where they can start choosing if they want to still be good or follow down a darker path in hope of some reward.
everyone freaked out because "omg you can't control how we make our characters!!!!!" so i just dropped the idea completely.

>they're high-fiving each other for "backing the GM into a corner" and "disrupting his plans"

Why do you play with such shitheads?

have the party do a cool mission and get magical loot while his character fucks off around town with nothing to do
when he gets pissy remind him that he could have been doing cool adventures but wanted nothing to do with the group

Really? I don't think I'd ever just give my players the answer to a social situation by just saying "Hey the villain wants you to say I invoke the right of blah blah and you'll be free to go" and if I did my players would definitely be skeptical.

The DM shouldn't be calling his players retarded when it's just he himself made a villain that couldn't be trusted and when he said what he wanted them to do they thought "the villain can't be trusted so the DM is lying"

>"the villain can't be trusted so the DM is lying"

This is what makes the players retarded, by not separating what the DM is saying from what the villain is saying.

And even if that's the case, he also had his daughter say it and confirm it OOC with her as well, and she A) hasn't been known to lie and B) has been tortured and starved for days

And even assuming that this is all some elaborate lie, they didn't even try to bargain back. They didn't say 'why should we trust you', they didn't say 'we'll let her go once we're outside', they just killed her in some cheap attempt to piss him off.

So you think it's better for the DM to pull out the hammer and nails and start building a railroad? Why not just write a book? Why play TTRPG with friends if you don't want them to be able to make their own choices bit instead follow a script?

That has nothing to do with what that user was saying

They made their choices. Now they must follow the path that they have chosen.

Storytime.

Think up some dream sequence/magic that has them play out the situation from the villian's perspective.

As in, have them experience them killing one of their own, then killing their own characters.

Even if it's just to roll for the shots that kill them, the villian producing their family members, and an option to save them by attacking each other, or starting again after the premonition sequence desperately trying to find a way out as they know exactly how they will die.

I really think having them kill themselves step by step would be best.

For the last one standing, villian claims that it wasn't his daughter/did not care for daughter at all, before killing him, or incapping to restrain in a way to slowly waste away without escape.

>when it's just he himself made a villain that couldn't be trusted and when he said what he wanted them to do they thought "the villain can't be trusted so the DM is lying"
even if that were true killing the BBEG's daughter right in front of him is still going to make their situation 1000 times worse and why wouldn't it? The most likely outcome to that is he orders the archers to fire on the party until dead, then probably have his revenge on the PCs friends and family. Thinking he'd do something as stupid as bull-rush the party and thereby surrender his advantage over them is moronic.

That whole "say yes" philosophy of GMing spoiled a generation of players. Now everyone just assumes plot armor no matter how retarded their ideas are.

Fuck that shit.

They did make a choice. It just seems that they value giving the middle finger to the DM over their characters living or succeeding, so the choice is death.

I would, but the other three players are almost literally dragging him with them.

Currently it's manifesting as him being a huge dick to his superiors at all times, insulting literally everyone he meets that's part of the little group, and refusing to show up most of the time (and then getting pissy when not showing up has consequences, like not getting loot)

Don't you see, user realized that he couldn't win the argument anymore so he's trying to change the subject to something he CAN win and hoping we won't notice.

This is the opposite of a railroad user. Nothing about this situation is what the DM wanted. They have choiced themselves to death.

And reaffirm their deaths will result in some monetary profit of some kind for him, plausably reasonable but unmentioned until now - offsetting the loses incurred by his pursuit.

That's just spiteful. Don't do that.

...

I only have the patience for one, I have a lot of Final Fantasy to be playing.

1. The Tale of "that dragon kid" who was self-depreciating enough to grind an entire session to a halt 20 minutes in and also was so stupid he couldn't do ANYTHING right even when the answer is handed to him.

2. The autistic mexican who wasn't that bad just needed help with social queues and not being a god-modder

3. Charizard

4. The Old Cranky Manbaby

5. Metalhead and tits mcgee

6. Nameless murderhobo girlfriend -> Shortest story and one I've told on here before.

Pick one and only one. You have 10 minutes.

The DM attempted a more passive railroading. He rewinded the players choice and then told them they should do this instead. They then made the same decision again.

yep the argument has been "Actions have consequences and they chose poorly" V.S. "The GM is just being a dick". Since the former claim was the clear winner in the debate user has tried to change the debate to "Actions have consequences and they chose poorly" v.s. "Railroading is the sign of a terrible GM". If you think these two statements appear to be completely unrelated to each other, that's only because you are using critical thinking skills.

It lowers the feeling the DM is killing them unavoidably, and helps them think from another character's perspective about their choice, hopefully assisting understanding of the consequence.

If you can't explain the situation to them after repeatedly trying, have them go through the steps to understand it.

I thought you were going to suggest doing a temporary dream sequence with them in his shoes, having to negotiate for the life of one of their party members with someone trapped in the room and with 50 archers at their disposal.

Do it again and again, have the guy kill their party member in increasingly brutal fashions as he refuses to even negotiate with them, constantly calling them evil and liars. Have him challenge them to duels, but in the dream they don't have gear, so he cuts them down with an ethereal sword and the dream restarts.

Do it as many times as it takes for them to get it through their head that they're better sitting on the highground and letting the archers do the killing, and that this guy is being needlessly stubborn and not letting them save their friend no matter what they offer him.

Then, have them awaken to just before they kill the princess again, and see if they get it.

Gimme #1.

Number 1 sounds the best. Either that, 3, or 5

Handing over the daughter to a villain is guaranteed death without getting one over on the villain.

Think about this, you hand the daughter over. The villain then says open fire

You kill the daughter. The villain is really upset and then says open fire.

This is the best strategy, especially the talking to them individually bit.
DO NOT surprise them at the next session by killing them all. This has the potential for epic backlash. Best case scenario, they're all pissed at you and their screaming voices will drown out your logic and they'll bully you into writing them some deus ex machina that lets them get out. There's also every possibility that it could lead to fighting that splits up your group.

Just bring it up with each of them separately and see what's up.

Charizard?

Rolled 2 (1d2)

>3. Charizard
1
>4. The Old Cranky manbaby
2

Rollin' dice for my vote

1 please

Option 3, say you'll hand her over once you're outside.

Option 4, believe the DM who says OOC that he's telling the truth

Except they explain their logic as "he'll get so mad he'll come down and fight us." There's no mention of spite at all, they're high fiving thinking they're TACTICAL GENIUSES.

Would lye actually dissolve the corpses? And not the bins?

1s have it

---
This guy is a thin, scrawny, wiry guy, who could not shut the fuck up for longer than 20 seconds. That's not hyperbole. He actually could not go longer than a minute without having to say something. Like he would explode if he couldn't get it out of his mouth. Talk talk talk talk talk. Talking was bad enough as it is, but what really made him obnoxious was his two character traits.

1. He was an absolute defeatist. Any time ANYTHING did not go exactly his way, even if it was absolutely in no way his fault, he would immediately beat himself up and anything around him. "You're a bad DM! This is supposed to feel heroic. Oh man, I fucked it up, didn't I? I'm so sorry, I'll just go over in the corner, I can't do anything right."

Which wouldn't have been AS bad, except

2. He absolutely had NO hint of intelligence or strategy or even common sense.

While I said that he would beat himself up over any mistake even if it wasn't his, he also made a lot of mistakes. To give an example in terms of another game: He decided to build a Magic the Gathering deck on the advice of another player who knows what he's doing. He builds him a colorless deck I don't remember the name of. I think it was Urza? Either way, I played with the deck list one time against the MtG friend. The deck basically plays itself. It was incredibly strong.

So what's the problem?

Well, our hero of this story decided that he didn't like the deck as it was. So he puts in a bunch of blue spells. Here's the kicker.

He didn't put in any way to generate blue mana.

I'll let the gravity of that sink into you for a second. He puts in blue spells, blue creatures, but no islands, and nothing that generates ANY blue mana. The one time he was forced to do so, he puts in a singular island, draws it in a test match, and then curses that he drew something useless even though half of his deck now relied on it.

Had a player like that. I was DMing a oneshot level 20 godzillarasque, and knew he would go lone wolf. So while the party was resting (they had 3 days to prepare)
>he gallivants off to batman
>finds a sewer
>rolls high on investigate, deduces its a thieves guild
>knocks on the door, ogre bouncer answers it
>he shoots the ogre for not letting him in
>tuckerskobolds.jpg
>he meets a pit fiend
>he fights the pit fiend
>he signs a deal with said pit fiend
>died to godzilla anyway

Jesus that is awful.

Just cut to black. Don't even tell them they died. Then you can have some handy "quantum" prisoners in your back pocket if you ever need.

He had started bringing his girlfriend to the sessions, and was suffice to say, embarrassing her the whole time. They'd only been going out a short while thanks to a mutual friend playing match maker. During the sessions, he was now beating himself up so bad that it took his girlfriend 20 minutes to calm him down again. And the sad thing is, he was actually acting more well behaved WHILE she was there. It was even WORSE if she couldn't make it.

So one story in particular, and the point where it got bad enough to kick him out, was his fantastic plan that ruined the day's session. Our hero loved Dragons. He idolized them as the "most badass things ever." So he makes a Dragonborn fully expecting it to be as powerful as a dragon, and not quite understanding the fact that dragonborns don't match up to the idealized version of dragons in his head. To a point where the party stumbles across an incredibly dangerous encounter. Dangerous enough that the two clowns who steamrolled everything up to this point both agreed "We need to back the fuck out of this room right now." Not our dragonborn, oh no. He won initiative for once in his life. "He's not a pussy!"

So he charges into the middle of this murder of villains, lines them up with his lightning breath weapon, and fires. He rolls his piddly 2d6 points of lightning damage, and most of the badguys wind up saving anyways. I rolled in the open, it was fair. But before the badguys could act, before the party could help him, before he had even said his turn was over, he immediately turns around. "OH FUCK, I hate this game. Fuck this. I'm seriously about to rage quit! This is such bullshit." and proceeds to pout like that for 20 minutes, while the entire table tried to help him get out of his slump. But the damage was done. The mood was gone. Our hero left the stage, and I gathered the other players around, and we all came to a unanimous decision. We had to kick him.

If you didn't think he's honor his deal, why in God's name would you go to his palace through the front door with his daughter in-tow? I'm just saying you still could've gone with option #5: stay home and come up with a better plan that doesn't involve suicide-by-BBEG.