Is it better to die with honor, or live long and be remembered as a backstabber, a schemer and a traitor?

>film yourself fucking a pig.

That episode was fucking glorious

If you're good a being a backstabber, schemer and traitor, people will think you're honorable anyway.

>Literally every Stark child has a better claim than Jon does
Jon has the strongest claim to the iron throne of anyone currently alive. Pretty sure king in the north is aiming low.

There is no honor in death. There is no legacy left by any life.

He's easily Neutral Evil. Baelish has no problem with completely ignoring laws and social mores if it will get him what he wants, but at the same time he has no particular desire to overthrow that which keeps him protected. He's out for himself, his own personal power above all. Classic NE.

>Alexander the great didn't leave a legacy
>Nor did Charlemagne
>Or any of the great historical figures everyone remembers to this day
>The people who inspire others to act like them.

As it is, what's in the books is more myths than men. The man who invented the sail is forgotten, because everyone who'd ever heard of him is dead.

Once this planet dies in the blink of a cosmic eye, so too will everything that ever happened on it, as if it never happened at all.

We few who have ever known those names exist in the space between one millisecond and the next.

What kind of legacy is that?

>Because a thing ends, it never existed to begin with
So you are actually a moron. And the man who invented the sail is forgotten because there was no single man who invented it, peoples all over the world created it separately from one another.

I would be personally insulted if I am not remembered as a long-lived backstabber, schemer, and traitor. Can you even Italy OP?

It might as WELL never have existed.

If a thing having existed and a thing not having existed leads to the same overall outcome (i.e. this planet and everything on it is dead), the fact that it existed doesn't really matter, does it?

By your logic the universe itself doesn't matter, because it will eventually end. Everything matters, even the small things. Because as sapient beings, able to recognize events and things as having importance, choose for them to be important.

This is only true if you're looking at existence from the viewpoint of a being on that kind of scale. Basically, this hypothetical being is able to observe the planet at its creation up to and beyond its eventual "death". So, like a doctor studying an organ in some other person's body, saying that this one individual cell might as well have never existed. Bear in mind that the organ is crucial to that person's health and the cells that make up that organ are crucial to it.

It's a very shallow interpretation of existence.

Ned should have actually listened to LF, as devious as he is, he gave some solid advice and offers.

Do we really need to have yet another thread on this r*ddit-tier show?

>claims

Power resides where men think it resides.

One of the few constants of the Westeros world is the binding reputation of family. Ned Stark's memory and the noble legend which endures beyond his death is a beacon atop a hill, shining radiantly beyond a swamp of rotting shit. The good actions of one Stark could not be erased by all the savagery and evil that was done by an entire house of Lannisters.

Ned's plan to stop the Lannisters from seizing the throne failed because of Littlefinger, whose personal actions were arguably what tore down the last obstacles holding the continent back from full scale civil war. Now Westeros is on the verge of total conquest at the hands of undead monsters.

Which will let me be remembered for longer?

Nailed it.

And the fucked-up thing about it is that, out of all the shit he's done, betraying Ned was the one thing he did for the pettiest of reasons. Sure, he knew it would start a war, and that said war would give him opportunity after opportunity to come up, but all he really cared about was that Catelyn was getting the Stark dick and not the Little Finger.

>tfw your villain is a cuck

Jon is a bastard. Dany is the only Targaryen heir to the Iron Throne.

>He didn't watch last week's episode
Rhaegar married Lyanna at the tower of joy

>Charlemagne
was an old-ass man when he died

I have not - I refuse to give the Murdochs money.

What happened to Rhaegar's other wife?

Found the bookfag.

Rhaegar got a divorce at some stage. So, sucks to be her.

Show says he divorced her without even her knowing, which makes Rhaegar the most gigantic douchebag in the history of Westeros. I wonder if the show will even adress this?

I do read the books - they're good. I also watch the show.

But to see it in the UK you need to subscribe to Sky which is owned by Rupert Murdoch who I don't want to give money to if I can avoid it. So I buy them when they come out and bingewatch them.

Ouch

Honor is a worthless meme. Dead is always shit there is no such thing as honorable or glorious death it's better to be alive no matter what than to get rekt for some artificial bullshit leaders made up to make sure their meat shields will obey.
What I'm trying to say is Bronn > Ned.

staging death is a scenario I like
poor PM(

>or live long and be remembered as a backstabber, a schemer and a traitor?
The winner writes the history. Right now half of Westeros and all of Essos only heared of him as a traitor who killid his former best friend to get on the throne himself.

Depends on the practical outcomes of your death. Giving your life rather than dishonouring yourself is a good thing imo.

But there's little honour in leaving a bad situation that you could prevent by staying alive. That's when it gets very complicated though.

>The winner writes the history
Do Lannisters seem like winners to you

>be Jamie Lannister
>fuck your sister

youtu.be/ccrQObMjg1U

Better to die in S1 then to live to be in in S7.

So long Tyron lives, yes. Tyron is a nicer Tywin.

Dont try to be a great man. Just be a man and let history judge you.

Reminder that the people whom we romantize were often big bastards, Lionheart for example.

Neutral evil. Anything for his own advancement, without discrimination, after all.

He's Neutral Evil. Tywin's Lawful Evil.

Cersei is Chaotic Stupid.

>Be Jaime Lannister
>Fuck your sister
>Sacrifice your entire life, honor and self-respect for your sister
>Up to and including becoming a whitecloak, which means giving up your inheritance
>It directly leads to you killing a king and becoming the most despised man in Westeros
>Spend a year in captivity, in chains, dirt and shit, being dragged behind an army like a dog
>Lose your sword hand, which is a fate worse than death for a knight
>Finally start to regain semblance of honor after intense self-reflection
>Come back home
>Your father wants you to sacrifice your honor for his ambitions
>Your sister porked every man in the city while you were gone
>Also, she hates your guts now, because she's a narcissistic sociopath
>Probably has something to do with you growing a spine
>At least you have your brother
>Oh wait, he hates you now, and he also kills your father
>Get sent fighting against the Starks
>The exact thing you swore on your honor you will never do again
>Your bitch sister doesn't care, though, and throws a hissy fit when you object
>Now that you can't fight anymore, ever, the only thing left for you to do is peacemaking and diplomacy
>Turns out, you're really fucking good at it.
>Somehow manage to defeat the Starks without shedding a drop of blood
>The moment the siege is over, a letter arrives
>Turns out your bitch sister is on trial for being a whore and a murderer
>She asks for your help

Being Jaime Lannister is suffering

Liars and backstabbers will twist any honor you had in life after they've killed you. The feckless are often possessed of a fragile ego like that.

It is better to act without mercy or fairness against them, destroy them even when they seek to benefit you, and to be open about your reasons why. Save honor for those who have the decency to be open and honest.

All liars are traitors, and the punishment for treason is death.

You dont need to be honorable in life for people to write nice things about you after death. Just pay some artist to make good painting and romantize your history.

A hero dies once, a coward dies a thousand times.

Tywin don't chop up singers.

Death is death, and only Death is eternal.

You will die, or live, as whatever Fate has decreed.

What? Did you think you actually had a choice?

Here a list of people that would live long with honor. Learn to play smart.

Rob Stark's fault for not taking prison conditions and prison guard detail seriously. Jaime's escape was the catalyst to a lot of nasty shit.

>Escape
He didn't escape, he was let go by Catelyn Stark, who might as well have been the Hand of the king.

The only thing stopping Catelyn Stark and her giantess from setting Jaime loose was the laziest excuses of prison guards to have ever been raised in the North. Jaime was worth an entire country and should have been treated as such.

I don't know, Tyrion's suicide squad (remember them?) failed at breaking Jaime out, so clearly guards couldn't have been that bad.

...but user, Ed didn't live long, and he was remembered as a backstabber, schemer and a traitor...

Being a scumbag gets me remembered longer, so I'll go with that.

>Once this planet dies in the blink of a cosmic eye, so too will everything that ever happened on it, as if it never happened at all.

Nigga you ever heard of a space shuttle?

Explain to me why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen at dinner.

It is said that dying sucks dicks very badly, which means living long is desirable.

Why not both?

Chaotic Ladder

That means that a "hero" lives only once. While a coward gets a thousand lives.

I want more lives.

Battle implies that the other men had a fair chance at killing you instead. At dinner usually means underhanded shit that they don't see coming.

Everyone dies, but only a few live honorably.

Winning a war means 1. you can lead and 2. you have lots of people loyal to you, so you can use them to protect your followers.

Poisoning some soup says zilch about ruling ability.

Living long. I'd be a toilet if it meant getting to live forever.

It's a matter of social norms and mores. To betray those mores and norms is to paint oneself as untrustworthy. It inhibits your ability to be diplomatic in the future which can lead to even greater bloodshed down the road, especially if your betrayal of those norms and mores is adopted by others. If nobody can trust one another to follow simple social norms, they cannot trust each other to make and follow truces, alliances, cease fires, etc.

...

You, I like you.

It is better to die or live long while only being known by those who you wish had known you, if anyone at all. People who believe they know you do not actually know you, so having no name at all is preferable because that way there are never misunderstandings.

Bronn is one of the most honest characters in the entire series.

Playing cod eh? How many times did you die over that entire game?

Probably over a thousand ya coward.

The honorable are rarely remembered in history, Rather, some backstabbers and marauders are remembered more fondly than others.

Neutral Evil or Chaotic Neutral depending on your perspective. He's using the system for personal gain, which would point him in the LE direction of the spectrum at the same time he regularly plays allies against each other, kills people, breaks oaths when it is convenient, and otherwise work in the shadows to further his own goals above anything else.

...

>Chaotic Neutral
Betrayal is always an Evil act, circumstances notwithstanding.

Neutral Good, he is the heroic lowborn underdog fighting against the corrupt nobility. His actions will ultimately make things better for the common man in the end.

user, he IS the nobility.