In a world where you can kill a million rats and move mountains with your bare hands...

Higher breed might not be the best way to put it. There's certainly NPCs (even basic humans) that are significantly stronger than PCs seemingly without killing scores of goblins, and what makes a PC a PC isn't necessarily some genetic factor as it could easily be due to some chance encounter or whatever
But in a sense, yes

>simulationism

Who are you quoting, friend? Watch where you put your meme arrows.

Dedication

It has less to do with birth and more with unknowingly entering a pact with a faceless, powerful entity that obliterates their personal agency and begins to puppet their body for its own amusement. Once the takeover begins at best they can hope to survive the ordeal and walk away richer and more powerful, but many will die without every knowing true freedom ever again.

Because it requires effort, and also narrative predisposition a la potential, affinity or talent.

Basically, that's not how it works because XP is an abstract system. When you start taking an abstract system and trying to force it into being a fact of the setting, things break down.

Who knew?

But a farmer is dedicated to farming. Why not dedicate himself to killing rats instead? Or reading spellbooks if he's smart enough?
That's fucking horrible. Jesus.

>calling greentext markup character "meme arrow"

Your post wasn't all that great but the redditspacing was next level. Take my upvote!

Same reason not everyone knows how to reprogram a computer from the ground up or perform highly advanced theoretical math. End of this thread.

Because just like IRL, not everyone can be everything. I wanted to be an artist but I recently had to give up because it was destroying me mentally and physically. The world keeps saying you can become anything if you want it real bad but it's not true. Sometimes all you can aspire to be is a wizard in D&D

No shit, it literally says that in the fucking manual. Lol lrn2read

Don't get this redditspacing meme. I hit enter twice when fragmenting into a new line of thought, is that somehow wrong?

Does this trigger you?

Does it?

You're not going to like this, but adventuring is harder than farming. AD&D is rife with examples of gruesome outcomes and PTSD. Clerics losing their faith, fighters losing limbs, going into early retirement and drinking themselves to death, wizards going insane or being hanged by the authorities, thieves getting shanked to death or murdered by fiends on the loose...

Farming is hard work, but it's satisfying and simple. In fact, medieval peasants had more holidays, shorter hours, and arguably more workers rights than the average modern office worker.

It gives your post an aire of affected poety which makes you seem gay and reddity.

But user, I have a face.

>poety

Piety?
Poesy?
Poetry?

Kys my dude

Savage autism bro

That's true after the black death, but still checks out.

What manual? Which shit game are you playing?

Has your PC seen it?

>as a Saiyan
Why isn't every normie in Dragonball at least Krillin level? Because it took Krillin years of gruelling training and dangerous fights to get there. Most people don't have the drive, discipline and potential to get there. Same with becoming a powerful wizard or epic swordsman in a fantasy setting. Or an award-winning athlete IRL.

Basically, your question is - why doesn't everyone put in years of effort to become exceptional instead of settling for simpler, comfortable living? Maybe you should reflect on your own life and find the answer.

>Why isn't every normie in Dragonball at least Krillin level?
Because Toriyama is a fucking hack and we all know it, even if we won't admit it.
>Basically, your question is - why doesn't everyone put in years of effort to become exceptional instead of settling for simpler, comfortable living? Maybe you should reflect on your own life and find the answer.
I'm talking about a farmer, mate. If a farmer can fucking farm for 12 hours a day, he can kill rats. He can lift weights. He can read spellbooks. So why does he farm?

Why do people irl spend 8+ hours a day flipping burgers when they could be using that time to lift weights and become olympic champions or read books and invent the cure for cancer?

Those things take much longer IRL and don't have as much of a payoff. Being a scholar IRL means you could get a good job and maybe help society one day. Being a scholar in your typical fantasy TRPG means you can conjure things from nothing and warp reality.
Same with being physically strong. IRL it means maybe you could compete for money. In your typical fantasy TRPG it means you could become strong enough to get whatever you wanted by force.

>In a world where you can kill a million rats and move mountains with your bare hands, or read a thousand books and move mountains with your mind, why the fuck would anyone be a shitty farmer dude?
In a world where you can fight a thousand guys and become a professional athlete, or read a thousand books and become an influential genius multibillionaire, why the fuck would anyone be a shitty NEET wasting their time on a Taiwanese shadowpuppet board?

Read the thread mate. Already countered this "argument" several times. Here's an example:

>Countered
Nah, you made some questions about it but never gave a single argument against.
People are born different and that's it. In certain worlds, this difference is greater than in others.

>he can read spellbooks
lmao does he just go up to the store and buy a few

>People are born different and that's it
That wasn't your "argument". Your "argument" was
>In a world where you can fight a thousand guys and become a professional athlete, or read a thousand books and become an influential genius multibillionaire, why the fuck would anyone be a shitty NEET wasting their time on a Taiwanese shadowpuppet board?
Just give up already. Go play 4E or 5E or whatever piece of shit you and your retard crew play.
I'd imagine he'd get them from wherever a level 2 wizard gets his.

did they buy their books from the store too
i want to hear about your magical bookstore setting

I don't have a setting, dumdum. I am talking about your typical, lazy fantasy TRPG setting like Forgotten Shite.

who cares about that i want to hear about your setting where commoners can just get spellbooks like it's nothing
dude this could be an epic greentext for you

I don't have a setting, dumdum. I am talking about your typical, lazy fantasy TRPG setting like Forgotten Shite.

>Implying
I'm not the same user you were talking to so, no, that was not my argument.
Still waiting for you actually bringing an argument to the discussion, though. So far you've only brought the inability to defend your ideas properly.

lol ok dude but it'd be hype as fuck
so are there like magic bookstores in this forgotten stuff too, just like your setting?

I'm not giving any ideas, I'm asking for justification for your dumb ones.
I think so. I don't have a setting, though.

And people have already given justifications, but you dismissed/ignored them without any actual counterargument.
So, let me repeat myself:
>People are born different and that's it. In certain worlds, this difference is greater than in others.
What's the problem with that one?

i dunno i think it means he can't go to the bookstore to get his wizard spells, he has to make a setting up where he can :(
i'd be pretty mad too

What makes people born different, and why is it always the PCs? Saw this dumb "argument" before as well.

Honestly, I'd like a gay user in my life. Would be nice to have somebody to snuggle with who shares my dumb interests

Get out of my thread, faggot.

Get into my bed, faggot

Most wizards just pen their own, but assuming we want to go full autismo and do a number example with Pathfinder for maxiumum autism, a farmer couldn't afford a spellbook even if they tried.

d20pfsrd.com/magic/spellbooks/

Your cheapest spellbook 185 gp, and assuming he's a trained hireling with a focus in farming he's getting about 3 silver per day. I don't know how much of his earnings need to go back into supporting himself and his family, but I'd imagine it'd be most of that, but assuming he can squirrel away 1 silver a week we're talking over 30 years of saving, and this assuming he doesn't make any other big purchases, no accidents happen, and he's even smart enough to potentially cast the spells.

Really if you're Joe McDirtfarmer and you want magic in your live, your best bet is to shoot for being super pious or tree hugging to shoot for cleric or druid, and that's still assuming your shit NPC stats don't get in the way. Warlock might also be possible if you're charismatic enough and you don't mind selling your soul to some cosmic entity. Probably the more consistent option would be to knock up some sort of magical being so you can give your children a magical bloodline to work with, or at the very least a plothook so they might turn into PCs.

Gay, sure, but reddity is a little harsh.

Get off it dude

hahaha who the fuck is unemployed
like get a job motherfucker
become a fortune 500 ceo
what kind of fucking human being is a bum when they can literally be the richest man on the world instead
baka desu senpai

Not an argument, kid

Then counter it instead of dismissing it outright.

Oh right, you can't.

why are you posting on Veeky Forums and not literally running the country right now
seriously
why the fuck did you choose to be the sort of moron who posts this shit on Veeky Forums when you could be the ruler of a nation instead

Being able to move mountains and pull off impossible feats is a pleasant fantasy because in reality no-one and nothing can match up.

In-game, however, training up to level 20 doesn't make your life any easier, it just means CR 20 shit starts taking an interest in you. Why would you WANT to get on every dragon's radar? Do you actually want to be the guy people go to when the ancient evil is waking up? Fuck that, I've got turnips.

How can I make a counter to that? It's not even coherent. It's a sentence gobbled up and spat out over 5 separate lines.
Already countered this "argument" several times. Please read the thread before replying to it. It's just common courtesy.

Then tell the people to fuck off. What are they gonna do? Give you sass? You're a god at level 20 in most games. Be a wizard and just send the dragons to your magical sex realm.

look at this motherfucker
look at him at laugh
he's chosen to be a fucking basement dwelling grognard when he could have been a fucking president or a ceo
what kind of moron makes those sorts of life choices

That would work fine for someone who doesn't mind everyone hating them. Most people do, though.

>You're a god at level 20 in most games
And how many gods get to relax and do their own thing? Divine politics is bullshit. Once you have that kind of power, everyone and their mother wants something from you or wants to murder you and eat your heart to steal your strength. There's no retirement plan.

>he wants to be the president or a ceo
>he probably doesn't even know what either of those occupations entail
wew

Heroic fantasy's genre-establishers were literal deliberate conservative propaganda.
It's here as a genre to convince children that Sir Fuckedadragon is fucking dragons and slaying barmaids because he's a ~super special magical snowflake~, and not just because his father Sir Fuckedanorc had 14 hours leisure time a day, a private arsenal, and nothing to do with it but spar with his son and give him 10k hours of mock-battle experience before his 16th birthday while everyone else got 10k hours of hoeing.

It's also related to a lot of other dumb genre shit like why no one uses spears and only faggy bards and untrustworthy thieves use bows (read, the two weapons that when handed to peasants and yeomen made easy pincushions out of Muh Superior Specimens.)

yeah because your life totally has more meaning and is more satisfying than that
you sure are successful for your life choices, mr Veeky Forums poster

Then just don't let them. You could just disguise yourself as somebody else. It really doesn't sound that bad.
If it was a racial thing it would make more sense. Obviously a human would be more likely to be a wizard than a nigger due to IQ averages and such. But it's not a racial bias; it's a PC bias. The PCs, no matter what the fuck they are rolled as, have, for all in tents and porpoises, unlimited potential.
That didn't even have anything to do with what I said mate lol

>why is it always the PCs?
You've got it backwards. It's not that the PCs are always exemplary, it's that only exemplary people are suitable to be PCs.

>What makes people born different,
Why is Usain Bolt so much faster than all the other guys who trained as hard as him? In the real actual world some people are just born better than others, it's not a great leap of imagination to say that in a fantasy world this difference is greater
>and why is it always the PCs?
It's not that it's always PCs who are born different, it's that those who are born different become PCs

I suppose it just depends on the system and the GM. You COULD just play a farmer. Do either of you have any experience with systems or games like that? Ones where even after tons of training, you only get a slight edge in combat?

>You could just disguise yourself as somebody else. It really doesn't sound that bad.
So just cast your old life aside, put on a disguise, and live without ever actually using your hard-won abilities to avoid breaking your cover.

Sure,it's doable, but what's the point? You might as well have just stayed at level 1.

Honestly? I don't see the difficulty. If I was a level 20 wizard, I'd just go off grid in the woods and conjure food all day. Anybody that fucked with me would be sent to some other plane or something. I guess it depends on the setting though because it depends on what is out there and what is looking for you.

>disguise yourself
>in games where powerful people can """read a thousand books and move mountains with your mind"""

Good luck with that.

You don't HAVE to move mountains with your mind. And it's really just PCs that can do that shit anyway. What's stopping a wizard from disguising himself to get people to stop bothering him?

What's to stop other wizards from seeing through that disguise?

Depends on if there are other level 20 wizards out there, I suppose, and whether or not they care about you. Theoretically, you could just study on your own and get to level 20 without garnering any attention, no?

You're kinda missing the point. You're talking about ways to live privately as a level 20 wizard, I'm asking why bother becoming a level 20 wizard if all you want to do is live privately.

Kinda a decent point too. What's to stop some Diviner 20 jerkoff from ringing you up every day like the world's most obnoxious telemarketer until you go save the world?

Post examples of characters that have done that and the settings they're from.

Almost no setting has "do a mundane, repetitive task for a couple of years and get rewarded with ultimate power" as a feature.

>You're kinda missing the point. You're talking about ways to live privately as a level 20 wizard, I'm asking why bother becoming a level 20 wizard if all you want to do is live privately.
That would be my dream life, to be honest. To just live off the grid and be entirely self sufficient without busting my ass 10 hours a day hunting and farming. Would be comfy as fuck.
I'm not talking about settings though. I'm talking about how flawed systems are in that they allow you to do this kind of shit when it makes no sense within the settings.

Point out a system that allows you get to get to 'level 20' through repetition of simple, mundane tasks that lack any sort of risk or danger.

Just about any D&D. Pokemon.

Ryuutama actually has farmer as an actual class and is still pretty useful due to the game's focus on traveling, though in that universe a farmer is expected to not totally suck dick in combat because everyone must go on a journey at some point in their life. PCs in general in it don't really grow a whole lot in power but usually grow by getting more high quality gear and knowledge about the area.

Farmer can rise million crops and move his children to city for good education and better job. Can your murderhobo do the same? I don't think so.

Really? What's the XP rewarding for """studying on your own""" in D&D 3.5, since you're making the claim that it rewards XP? Page reference, please.

You do the need to get anywhere near 20 for that, though. Create Food and Water is only a 3rd level spell. Ultimately the only way to hit level 20 is to go out and fuck very big, noticeable things up and get on a lot of people's radar in the process.

The thing with Bolt is that, even as a man who's incredibly dominant in his sport, even though he's personally responsible for a full third of 100-meter record progress in the era of electronic timekeeping...
All eight times turned in at the 100m finals in Rio beat or match the earliest electronically-timed world records from the '60s. All were within a quarter-second of each other. All were around two and a half seconds faster than an average athlete, which is around two and a half seconds faster than a fit amateur, which is around five seconds faster than this thread.

Bolt has some serious 18/00 dex shit going on, it's true, but he's running against 18/95s, men whose good days are better than his average days. And literally anyone, barring rare diseases, has the potential to just pointbuy 16 or 17.

The only one I can think of right now is a spanish low fantasy early medieval RPG in which playing as a prostitute, a farmer or an altar boy is quite common.
There's no english translation and will probably never be, though.

>In a world where you can kill a million rats and move mountains with your bare hands, or read a thousand books and move mountains with your mind, why the fuck would anyone be a shitty farmer dude?
You are not supposed to make a "shitty farmer dude" PC.
If you are talking about NPCs, they don't get EXP or have levels.

A level 20 wizard? Yes, he can. He can even conjure children out of nothing and send them to planes with better schools.
Nah bud you asked what systems let you level up through tasks that aren't risky or dangerous. Just kill rats brah lmao

>Pokemon
Trying to level to 100 on route 1 is mathematically impossible. Even assuming you immediately enter a battle every time you move in grass and never need to take healing breaks, your playtime will overflow and corrupt the save before you've accumulated enough 1 EXP victories to reach the cap.

XP is a purposefully disassociated mechanics and abstraction intended to provide a simple way for players to be rewarded and for characters to grow in strength.

It's not a literal representation of how the game world works.

No I mean the RPG. Theoretically you could just search for rare candies nonstop, and since it's Pokemon, as long as you aren't fucking with the setting, you're never really in any danger at all.

Do you know any games that actually simulate rising in power whether it be through physical training or magical knowledge?

No, because most games aren't about simulating realistic personal growth with accuracy. Most games are about conflict.

Can you farm a million plots and harvest mountains with your hoe? I wanna be an epic level farmer harvesting Owlbeets and Hobcarrots, or even making stew put of the infamous Taterrasque.

Isn't that more or less what you do in the Rune Factory games?

Yeah and I wouldn't want to play a simulation game anyway, I was just wondering if you knew of any severely autisticly made RPGs with systems for like muscle growth and shit. Would be interesting to see it attempted.
Do it mate.

But user, conflict is the basis for personal growth