Pathfinder General /pfg/

There's a reason autism is a spectrum, I've seen literal screechers that are physically in their 30's but with the mentality of a 5-year old that can barely string together a sentence, and I've seen people that you wouldn't even know had it outside of very specific circumstances.

The best way I've heard it described is like having an improperly installed OS on your computer. All of the base files are there, they're just corrupted and may not work right.

I get that, better than most people, but I've never heard of autism causing narcissism and skewed viewpoints on the level 2hu has them while still retaining mental functionality and, indeed, high math skills. There's gotta be other factors at work here.

So, actual topic: has mental illness ever been relevant in your game? Aside from your players' mental illness I mean, like in-character.

I personally have never had it come up as relevant.

Literal autism, like serious autism.

Though it reads more like sociopathy

I had one a while back. I fluffed it early on that my tiefling alchemist had night terrors that left her a bit of a wreck during the day, explaining her abysmal charisma.

It came up during a "battle at the center of the mind" episode, in which she was largely safe, as apparently night terrors are toxic to brain eating eldritch monstrosities.

It's common of internet dwelling autism in the fact that it's compounding their illness with social maladjustment. You get it really bad from online-only dweebs that literally never go outside and may or may not be enabled by their parents who don't know what else to do other than feed into their kid's sense of self-worth despite not earning it. I mean, that's what happened to Chrin-Chan.

Does playing a Paladin who thinks they hear the voice of their god in their head and may or may not be right count?

>Does playing a Paladin who thinks they hear the voice of their god in their head and may or may not be right count?
It's actually interesting that schizophrenia is different in different parts of the world. While in many developed and more western areas, the people with schizophrenia tend to be tormented by them, but in tribal societies such as in Africa, the voices and hallucinations tend to be playful things, like fey or spirits. Been a while since I read the article, though.

It implies some interesting things about our mentalities and the effects culture has on our minds.

>Does playing a Paladin who thinks they hear the voice of their god in their head and may or may not be right count?

Sure, sounds like some mild schizophrenia to me.

user, I'm gonna have to agree with here. I've seen some serious cases of autism in my day, and I've had good friends of mine who worked in mental healthcare facilities. This sounds like a hell of a lot more than just autism. Like, there's definitely a really big fucking dose of autism in there, but there's got to be something else amping it up. I have no idea what sort of hell was visited upon 2hu to make them how they are, but at this point I can't even hate them, and I'm the dude who's been witchhunting them for two years. It's just... really depressing.

Hey, I remember her! I even scrubbed off the flames from her tail! Did you finally get to play that character, man?

As a matter of fact, I did! Played her as a bomber, since tieflings get bonus damage with bombs. She was a lot of fun. The game unfortunately died when we got to high levels; the GM tried to force the story past what was a clear stopping point, and it all fell apart. Nobody enjoys sequels to things that have actually ended, though we still make references to the old campaign now and again.

Anybody in Louisville Kentucky?

>handful of morons chimp out at the sight of anything that doesn't cater to their personal tastes
>the problem is anime pictures
Okay.

I am, why?

But why'd you witch hunt?

Oh man, I know how that kind of stuff goes. I’m currently in a game that could’ve ended all nice and clean ten sessions ago, but like some big ole shot black bear it just doesn’t know it’s dead.

Did she finally conquer her fears?

Shut up, Collete.

Never, but she learned to actually live with them. When her story ended, I dropped her entirely for a new character, so she at least got her happily-ever-after running the royal alchemy labs in a kingdom we'd saved once or twice.

Because 2hu is a legitimately terrible person who poisons everything they touch, and is actively detrimental to themselves, everyone around them, and any hobby that they engage in. They offer no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and are a damaged enough person that there's zero chance of them ever recovering from what made them how they are.

They are, without any doubt, a person that the world will be better off when they die.

Didn’t she learn to live with them by sleeping with people? I hope this means she found some well-born charmer to add to her list of accomplishments alongside being the royal chemist!

Not sleeping with people specifically; sharing a bed with them, just being held in the night. It was people's presence that kept the worst of them at bay, but they never completely went away. As for marriage, nope. she never actually got around to marrying in story, though if we'd ever done a real epilogue the GM likely would have paired her with a knight in shining armor.

Again with the "How do I cast Charm Person?" question from the deleted thread.

> The idea was to cast the spell (as Psychic, no somatic/verbal components) on some guard to let us pass into the city, but GM basically told that its impossible to pull off: all spells create visual effects and anyone who sees magic done on himself/someone he cares about will murderize caster on sight.

I've got told that "all spells creating noticeable visual effects is an errata told to us by one of the devs on the forum" and got a quote from FAQ.

The question about Charm Person remains: how do I use it? Is it no longer possible to use it?

You gave her a better end than most could say, I think you did a swell job.

Who’s your next character?

What did 2hu do? Why is he bad for Pathfinder or every other game?

I actually asked for help with putting her together earlier but was ignored in favor of shitposting. Eventually decided on a half-red dragon Scaled Fist - I love the archetype because it almost literally turns you into an action hero through the fluff.

Basically, she grew up after being dropped off unceremoniously at an Iroran monastery as a baby, which is where she got her training from, but her impatience, self-assuredness, and greed keep her from realizing the path to perfection the other monks wanted her to follow. Of course, she's still a follower of Irori; his teachings are that each must find their own path to enlightenment. Given her charisma is 20 and her wisdom is 8... this isn't going to go as well for her as her near narcissistic levels of self-confidence may lead her to assume.

The tl;dr is basically that they've single-handedly ruined 3pp content, because their extreme version of autism makes them compulsively optimize it to the maximum possible extent. And since companies fear bad reviews because of being broken, they heavily nerf content. But, since the content is often perfectly fine in every scenario where the person using it isn't the ideal of autism, this basically kills it.

There's also the animeposting, narcissism, lack of empathy, lack of regard/respect for others, flakiness in being a player, poor quality of being a player, one-dimensional nature of their characters, severely obsessive nature that they have, their lack of ability to understand when it's time to stop, lack of communication skills, stubbornness in discussions of any kind, complete inability to acknowledge that they're wrong, and honestly the list goes on.

They've admitted to hating Pathfinder, repeatedly. And yet, day after day, they sit here, autistically number-crunching to ruin the system for others, all under the guise of "But people need to know!" despite almost everyone that interacts with them informing them that no, in fact, nobody wants to or needs to know.

Also

1. As I understand you can make one melee touch attack as a standard action. However you could also deliver a touch attack by hitting an enemy with your hand, or rather claws for natural weapons or an unarmed strike for a monk.

2. If so, would that apply to all your hands/claws? Is chill touch be cast specifically on one hand?

3. I do recall that casting another spell removes any held charges. If using magic items, potions or wands while holding a charge, does that remove your charge?

4. As for greater fang I'd like to bring an example.

You polymorph into a Four-Armed Gargoyle (minutes per level). You cast greater magic fang on each of your 4 claws (hours per level). As the polymorph spell ends, you lose your claws.

But an hour later you decide to become a 4 armed gargoyle again. Is the greater magic fang still applied to your 4 claws?

5.
First of all, haste and natural weapons. I can only assume it stacks. Can you select which of your natural weapons gets the additional attack?

What the actual goddamn fuck, that's really terrible.

1. Correct, but only if you HOLD the charge.
2. when you are holding the charge, the first thing you touch is what it discharges into, so chill touch could discharge multiple times
3. Using a wand/item/potion is not the same as -you- casting the spell, it would not remove the charge.
4. No, you lost the claws and the spell dissipated. This is unless you use the version that says all natural attacks you have gain +1, which would persist through form changes.
5. They do not stack, you do not gain an extra attack from haste while using natural weapons.

its hyperbole

It really kind of isn't, and that's what makes it sad.

If you honestly believe any of that is incorrect, them I'm sincerely sorry for you.

Go read the thread archives and look up the various shit that 2hu has done.

I gurantee you that every bit of it is true, and that there's more to find that I've not personally seen.

They are a blight, pure and simple.

It really is, saying '2hu ruined 3pp' is insane, and quite simply, is a statement that requires -proof-. What did he 'ruin'. How. Explain that shit.

>2hu drove away DSP
>2hu directly contributed to Gareth burning out
>2hu was a large part of what started the shitposting that pushed Forrest away
>2hu was what ruined parts of PoW and caused unnecessary errata to happen
>2hu shitposted DSP's system to death, despite the lead developers directly asking him repeatedly not to, eventually demanding that he didn't, and he did it anyway
Lets see, there's also all the shit where he's been driven out of every other community that he touched before he completely ruined it. That part where he's threatened to kill players and GMs, and this forced the people close to him to sit down for multiple DAYS to discuss why this is wrong, and him still not understanding why.

C'mon here, guy. This is 2hu. The list goes on, for nearly a decade at this point.

What does holding the charge mean in this context? If you cast the spell and don't use your free attack action to use it?

Would it also work through bites and gores?

Thanks for the information.

It isn't insane, more incomplete. By and large, any 3pp that gets posted here in the threads gets picked apart at the threads by him in 5-post chunks that hit Veeky Forums's character limit with each post. Anything that seems like it might even be remotely fun, he grinds down to essentials and complains about how overpowered it is when you run with RAW all the way to the bank.

He did the same thing with Starfinder when it came out, and while it brought some issues to light (Ship DC scaling) it also brought up the idea that Solarions and envoys are entirely useless, which while they're not great they are far from the useless piles of shit that they were made out to be.

Charm Person is best used as an interrogation aid on a restrained target, IMO. That, or any other time when you want someone to cooperate and you're relatively protected from the potential backlash of a successful save.

Otherwise you have a first level spell that's fairly limited in ots power and scope. And that isn't always a bad thing.

Pretty much this.

Basically, content is your friends cat/dog/whatever animal. It's nice. It's fun. It's enjoyable to have it around to pet or play with.

But when 2hu gets ahold of it, it very quickly ceases to be that same pet. Sure, all the pieces are there, but you're looking at it seperated into the individual parts and chopped up and reassembled. It's wrong on an innate level. It's taking something good and turning it into something disgusting and repulsive.

Did Paizo finally make a 5e killer with Starfinder? How is the system?

>2hu drove away DSP
Wrong, Gareth stated they left because 'oh yeah associating with Veeky Forums looks kind of bad'
>directly contributed to gareth burning out
no proof
>shitposting that pushed forrest away
Forrest left because they got bogged with college shit and being barraged with 'update avowed'
>ruined part of PoW and caused unnecessary Errata
lmao, guys PoW never needed Errata it was fine.
>2hu somehow ruined pow and psionics
Ok now i'm dying. PoW and Psionics have their own problems.

2hu runs the numbers man. This is what autism does.
He's a RAW machine, and you should take his statements as way to fix your RAW.

Keep in mind, you don't ever have to play with 2hu, I would never play with 2hu. He's just noise. You all need to get your shit together.

Like you're giving him far more power than he actually has.

Good god you are ridiculous.
"2hu is DOING IT WRONG, HOW DARE THEY READ THE RULES CLOSELY"

Starfinder is meh.

It's shit. It's really, really, really shit.

holding the charge refers to a specific combat action, you can find it on this page

d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat/

it would work for bites and gores, and really any natural attack

Starfinder's actually doing very well on sales. It's got a lot of problems because it clearly didn't get any high level playtesting, and they clearly only did like one editing pass (when I'm pretty sure you need about ten for professional standards).

Once the errata gets here and they do a second printing, it'll likely be much, much better.

How's that? The ship combat looks pretty fun.

>Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely

Does that imply that chill touch with its multiple attacks would be completely discharged when you touch an enemy with it on the round you cast it?

DSP probably still reads these threads, but not in an offical capacity

Nope, it specifically says 'round after round'

user, 2hu doesn't read the rules in the same way any normal person does. A normal person looks at the rules, goes "Huh, this'd be neat, lets try it." and finds a way to do that thing to a point where they're happy.

2hu looks at the rules, and it's as if a thousand thousand gears suddenly start whirring and clanking. It's as if some cosmic force aligns, and in a flurry of autism, he dives through a mental record of every single option published across all material, whether it's Paizo or homebrew or otherwise. And out of this burst of horrific autism a single crystal of pure, weaponized autism appears. It's a 2hu build, absolutely incapable of doing anything but one thing, but it will do that one thing so well that it's physically not possible to play a game alongside it. If it's at a table, then the game is no longer a game, it's 2hu rolling dice, saying "I win", and proceeding to robotically advance. All the fun has been stripped out, all the joy, all the challenge. It's gone. There is one thing left, and it's pure, refined, uncaring, unthinking autism.

Don't listen to them; it's a much better game than Pathfinder is once you get past the chaff and editing problems. The fact that it's backwards compatible at all is very good.

The problem is that there's a confusing morass of editing problems, extremely limited content (understandably so, as there's literally two books out right now and a couple adventures), and the occasional broken math. Once the core book gets a second printing and the system gets more splats, it'll develop to be better.

I have it on good authority that they basically ignore them now.

That's really fucking bad, considering the price of the thing they really should've playtested it a lot.

>He thinks Paizo playtests content
Oh user, I'm so sorry. Did you never hear what happened to the Occult playtest?

I see, thank you.

they probably still post even, but they're not going to be openly associating with Veeky Forums.

So don't play with him. You don't ever have to play with him. Its really that simple. Getting upset over someone you'll never play with is dumb.

The things he points out are still valid, they're still problems worth looking at and deciding if you should fix them or not

We shit on Paizo all the time for publishing utterly broken shit like the instructor Wizard, why should 3pp get a free pass? Because they're your friends?

No the reality is you're like every other faggot in every other game ever, from the faggots in league to the faggots in every other fucking game. The thing you like gets nerfed and that upsets you. Cry some fucking more.

Please see 5e playtests their material and listens to feedback, why can't the Paizo devs do the same?

Was this the infamous case where one designer's class was basically shat on repeatedly in favor of Jason Bulhman?

>they probably still post even, but they're not going to be openly associating with Veeky Forums.
They use to before we rolled over onto our backs, put our asses in the air, and shat all over our own faces.

Shame, this place used to be good to talk about pathfinder

>inb4 it was never good
But it was

No fuck you, they fixed polls in playtesting when they came up with results they didn't want and ignored feedback from non-retards.

Yeah, I know. If they'd just done what they did with Pathfinder - had a reasonably open beta - none of this would have been a problem. We fixed the ACG by complaining at them particularly hard too.

The fact that their more recent stance is "We know what we're doing, we don't need beta playtesting" has made for really shaky ground as far as mechanics and editing go, and Starfinder's a culmination of that.

Treat the 1st printing of the Starfinder core book as a beta, and report the shit you find in it to the designers. Weirdly enough, they actually do make a big effort to fix the particularly egregious shit in their game.

It's not about the fact that he points things out; it's that he doesn't understand limits. As stated, despite being asked repeatedly to stop harranguing someone, he kept going. He doesn't understand the concept of "not TO compliant" and assumes everybody should play TO builds that even theoretical optimizers don't want to go for. He doesn't get what "stop, you're ruining things for us" even means a lot of the time.

That is why he's a problem. He gets accurate math but he fucks up on social aspects and it drives people fucking mad.

Mate. The average person browsing the internet isn't going to come and read the thread and be like 'oh yeah this seems like a nice place'

They're going to read the name 'Veeky Forums' and remember thats the place where also the racist nazis that helped get trump elected come from.

>he fucks up on social aspects

SO
DON'T
PLAY
WITH
HIM

Literally the solution to all your problems is to not play with 2hu. You don't have to. Its literally not a problem for you if you don't play with him.

Yes, he's autistic as fuck. Of course he doesn't understand the social aspects you absolute fucking monkey.

If your argument is 'nobody would do that in a real game', then I guess there's no problem with Sacred Geometry and Arithromancy either. Oh wait, there clearly is. And those should have never been printed.

Citation needed.
Also this isn't their practice now, fucktard.

>A person combs every possible combination of content with the express purpose of breaking the game as hard as physically possible and for no other reason
>This means that the content should be removed
user, are you retarded? 2hu literally, as in literally literally, makes builds for the EXPLICIT PURPOSE of breaking the game. That's all there is to it. They take content, correlate it with the other content they know, and snap the game in two. Outside of these scenarios, which will literally, again literally literally, never happen in any game played by actual humans instead of mechanics-crunching autism-bots, they don't matter.

Hell, I don't even use the shit 2hu talks about most of the time. SoM is trash, SoP is trash, PoW is interesting but doesn't mesh well with what I personally enjoy, and the other shit is random no-name 3pp.

But it's not that that matters. It's the way he does it, the insistence he has that the way he does it is the ONE TRUE WAY TO PLAY, the fact that he literally insists that others optimize to the same extent as he does, that he doesn't understand that he pushes it too far, and that he outright refuses to change his ways at all.

>SO
>DON'T
>PLAY
>WITH
>HIM
You still aren't getting it dude. We don't play with him. none of us have played with him, and have no desire to, because he's a fucking eldritch abomination that eats fun.

what he does is he drives us up the fucking wall by eating huge segments of any thread he posts in, and ruins a particular thing of the game in the minds of those that actually bother to read. He's like a fucking mold on the carpet of reality.

>dev team introduces dealing STR mod damage on a miss in 5E playtest
>forums explode with grognard REEEEEEE
>well I guess we didn't really want it all along :^)
>gets removed
Repeat ad infinitum for every single interesting idea the playtest had.

user, 2hu refuses to get a name, trip, or other way to identify themselves and allow easy filtering. It's been asked of them repeatedly. They refuse to do it SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they don't want to allow people to tune them out.

Combine that with the fact that they post massive walls of text, that said walls of text are effectively unfilterable, that he constantly ban-evaded to the point where the moderation team literally gave up banning him because it does nothing, the attitude he has while posting them, and just... literally pick some facet of how he acts and it's a problem.

That's really disappointing to read, bro. If we're treating it like a beta and it really seems like it, we shouldn't be paying anything.

This is what a playtest is, but they're getting better at listening to non-retards.

All of your problems can be solved by the following words

Don't play with him.

You're literally accusing him of having badwrongfun. That his way is the wrong way to play. You're doing the exact thing you hate him for
>he doesn't understand he pushes it too far
He has autism. What the fuck do you expect?

So ignore him. By whipping up your little 'witch-hunt' you're giving him power.
you don't have to play with him. He's easy to ignore. Whenever you see a fucking 2hu picture its him. Your problems are so simple to solve.
Of course you don't want those problems to be solved, what you want is to feel like the righteous crusader slaying the evil! The evil of.. Someone who enjoys things differently to you! Ohno!

So fucking childish.

He's really, really easy to ignore.
They're literally autistic. You're never going to drive them out. All your witch-hunting does is shit up the threads even more.

Except that he still posts, and someone always bites, and then it all goes to shit. All it takes is one 2hu post and the entire thread immediately implodes in a chorus of screeching and autism.

It's at the point where there's zero point to him posting, because even for their stated goal, they literally cannot accomplish it because they are not a person fit to be the messenger for it.

So about that Pathfinder game

Ceri, are you drunkposting again?

2hu has no fucking power if you don't give them any.

i'm not ceri.

>we shouldn't be paying anything.
And that's why I didn't. I'll give them money when they prove worthy of it.

He's an aggregate problem, which is why I compared him to a mold. Sure, you can ignore him, but this thread has 18 posters. Can you guarantee they'll all ignore him? the reason I said he's affected Starfinder negatively is because of his "one true build" thing, in which there's only one good way to play a class. He shat on the solarion despite it being comparable to a melee soldier, and he decided that there was no saving grace to be had with the Envoy based on the fact that it's not great in combat; those viewpoints have held onto the people over in /sfg/, and taken root, despite the fact that both can be reasonably expected to contribute to a game.

He is not a target dummy you can ignore. He is a tentacled mold that grabs anybody that gets too close, and whispers math into the ears of any who are ensnared, and then those people reach over to you, crying out in pain and equations as the mold sinks deeper into their mind, the flailing limbs pulling you in until you, two, spread the bullshittery.

THAT is why we hate him. Not for him, but the people he affects, which we CAN'T avoid if we want to remain here.

>they can still contribute to a campaign

You heard it here folks, Swashbucklers are good. At last. Math is just a social construct.

How does your character react upon being catch bathing?

Stop being facetious if you want to be anything other than a twat. You wanna convince people? Make reasoned argument. Go after my points. False equivalency doesn't get you anywhere.

You want math? Show me math. Go ahead and write up pages of posts on just how i'm wrong. I've got all night; I'll wait.

>You and your friends are sitting around the table playing MtG
>You're enjoying it, it's fun, you're all playing fairly casual decks
>Another person wearing an anime shirt comes over, and the group all frowns slightly
>Without prompting, he slams down a shoebox full of decks, and begins rattling off how each of them is perfectly optimized and has the highest possible percent chance of winning
>People ask him to please not do this, it's annoying others. He ignores this.
>You move tables. He follows you. He keeps going.
>You were enjoying yourself. You were all having fun. But they came in, and started yelling about how THEIR way is the right way, and how ONLY THEIR WAY should ever be done.
>If you try to argue against them, no matter what your approach, you cannot win. They've perfected their optimization. It doesn't matter that he's playing something that's not legal in any MtG format and that no playgroup would tolerate. It's Optimized. It's Perfected.
>And every day, no matter whether you're still playing MtG, eating lunch, discussing RPGs, or doing something else, he's going to sit down.
>He's going to pull out the fucking box.
>And he's going to start yelling about how he makes them all and insisting that you reply back. And he's going to keep doing it, forever.

It's funny, because the entire problem could be solved by 2hu just adopting a trip and name. They already have an avatar, so they obviously want recognition. Even without an avatar, their posting style is unique enough that it's recognizable as them.

But they won't. And nobody will ever convince them to do it. I gurantee that.

To the people who want the shitposting to stop, try. Get him to adopt one. You want shit to get better? Then get him to act like a goddamn person.

...I'm sorry, are you implying that that's a bad thing?

Breaking the game shows where the break points of the game are, thereby helping other players avoid them and prospective writers what not to do. That is a purely beneficial action

If they were getting better at listening to feedback from non-retards we would have something good by now instead of a whole lot of fucking nothing. It's been 3 years and 68 days since the game came out.

It's not a breakpoint, though. It's an extremely specific combination of things done that all require multiple layers of approval from a GM, and which often have heavily conflicting fluff belonging to them.

It's a pile of mechanics that literally will not interact with eachother under any foreseeable circumstances

The flaw of this argument starts with

>you and your friends are sitting around the table playing MtG

You are not playing the game, you are discussing it, he's not barging his way into your house or online group or whatever, he's on an imageboard. He has interrupted nothing, he isn't even intruding, he has as much right to voice his opinions as you do

Man you made a bad anaology

1. Perfectly optimized decks? Legacy players would be excited to see their format improved.
2. If somethings on the banlist it would be comparable to him making arguments using shit like sacred geometry, he does not.
3. MTG at a high level is played between perfectly or nearly perfectly optimized decks. 'netdecking' is literally a thing and what happens to all serious tournaments.
4. RAW is literally what MTG is run by.

Additionally, 2hu does not insist you reply, if a post is ignored, it will get ignored. He is also not 'yelling', he's posting the same way anybody else can.

He's the scenario in reality

>Person shows up
>speaks about an optimized broken combo
>leaves
>meanwhile 3 hours later faggots are still bitching about that guy and they have become far more annoying than the guy at this point.

Swashbucklers are bad. This isn't an argument we need to make again. Just because somebody can contribute to a campaign with skill monkeying or roleplaying doesn't make the class any less mechanically bad at the core of the game, which is combat. This is 3.pf, its at its core a combat game.

Its literally FREE QA.

>You are talking with your friends
>A man walks up and begins talking about something technically related to the topic, but yells loud enough to drown others out
>They do this while wearing a garish outfit and pissing in people's faces
>You believe that everyone should just carry on like nothing is happening and that this is entirely acceptable

You don't get out much, do you? And you're still ignoring what the core of the problem is.

We don't like him because he's an ass. Not because he's wrong.

2hu also shows broken points within systems solely using that system, he's done it many times. Its FREE QA. Literally pure benefits for writers.

He rarely mixes subsystems to show something.

>Heavily conflicting fluff

Fluff is fluff, as long as it makes sense with the mechanics, what's actually written is unimportant

And if it obeys RaW, and is broken, then the problem is not with him, it is with the RaW. You're doing what the shitty PF devs do, asking people to just ignore poor writing decisions because it's inconvenient for you to face them

Jesus fucking christ people stop replying to him.

>a long post on an imageboard.
>comparable to yelling

>He's an ass
>because he's LITERALLY AUTISTIC
>ON Veeky Forums.ORG of all places!

Well i'm shocked to say the least.

I like how 2hu witch-hunter and DHB witch-hunter have both proved themselves utterly retarded today.