why do people get so fucking mad when people want to consider female space marines? why is it such a bad thing that GW wants to branch out to other groups of people?
>inb4 some generic /pol/ tier response about muh genes
the fact that there are primaris marines proves that GW could make female space marines cannon
took this from another user, as I feel it illustrates the point well.
1.) its impossible in the current lore. The making of space marines is one of the oldest and most solidified parts of 40k lore. The very nature of the gene seed and the process of creating a space marine ensure that it is impossible for it to be compatible with a female. most people are confused about what "gene seed" actually is. gene-seed is just a commonly used term genetic material that is used to fabricate the extra organs a space marines has. The gene-seed is more like a template that hails from one of the 20 primarchs that the emperor of mankind created. The emperor was a genius, and the art of creating primarchs died along with him, not that he would ever reveal the secrets of creating space marines. Since the gene-seed comes from a primarch, and is used to craft the specialized organs that makes a human into a space marine. Gene-seed DOES NOT TURN MEN INTO SPACE MARINES, THE ORGANS DO. the organs are what shape a man into a space marine, basically turning him into a genetic clone of him primarch, this is why space marines look like brothers and call each other brothers, because they are brothers by inheritance of the organs. this is why all salamanders are black, all blood angels look like Aryans, and all space wolfs look like Nordic vikings, its because they inherit the traits of their primarch. for their to be a female space marine would mean there would have to be a female primarch, which there are none of. females are fundamentally incompatible with the 19 types of gene-seed because they are females, and the gene-seed would twist them in a way that would kill them, hell, it nearly kills most men. here is an interesting article highlighting the issues of cross gender organ transplants, which is not nearly as changing as the gene-seed is webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20021106/sex-matters-in-organ-transplants
Blake Taylor
2.) even if females could receive the gene-seed successfully there still would not be any female space marines due to the fact that men are generally just stronger than women. Chapters that do not have home worlds recruit from random worlds, looking for people that make the grade. a space marine chapter on average finds one, maybe two dudes that are even worthy of consideration. the requirements to even begin the road to becoming a space marine are astronomically high. Men have denser muscles, stronger bones, stronger tendons, bigger organs, broader shoulders, thinner waists, less body fat (especially around the stomach), and faster reaction times. in fact, the only thing women beat men in is that they feel slightly less pain (a result of evolution and child birth). this is not theory crafting like you asshurt aspies do, this is proven fact. you take the strongest man on a world and compare him to the strongest women and the man will dominate the women. This is just how women and men evolved, strong sturdy men were desirable in a feral world just like small, fragile, yet beautiful women were desired by those men. This is something that can never be overcome without eugenics, something that is completely pointless if you can just find a man to do the job. Think of the imperial guard as the U.S army and the space marines are Spec Ops. There are women in the army because standards are intentionally lowered so they can get in (look at PT requirements for men and women in the army if you do not believe me). However THERE ARE NO WOMEN IN THE SPECIAL FORCES OF ANY BRANCH OF THE UNITED STATES MILITARY, this is because unlike the army, Spec Ops does not give a fuck about being politically correct, they set standards and if you cannot meet them, regardless of your sex, you can't become one. like the imperial guard, the army will lower performance to increase body count, but Spec Ops will sacrifice body count for performance.
Owen Turner
3.) so lets say We ignore both 1 and 2, female space marines are still retarded because the very act of becoming a space marine means throwing away what it means to be human and dedicating both your life and soul to defending humanity. Space marines dont even have sex organs most of the time, and the ones who do dont have libido or any semblance of a sex drive, such would be a distraction. The mission of the adeptus astartes is to make the perfect killing machine that isnt distracted by things like lust, love, envy or greed. Female space marines would probably just look and act just like male space marines, everything that would mark them as being feminine would be cut away and removed so there inst the risk of distraction. GW would have to change a shitload of well established lore just to crowbar in female space marines, and the difference would be non-existent beside the fact that they are technically females. You cannot think of space marines as humans, they are barely human as they have thrown away their very humanity to defend the imperium. this is why it would also not matter if a space marine was black, trans, or gay because they second they become an Astarte they throw away basically anything that makes them an individual. Space marines are the ultimate fascists, caring only about combat prowess and loyalty, nothing else. it would be purely token to crowbar in such things because they would have no effect.
please fuck off with this "female space marine" bullshit, all it shows is that you are not actually invested in the lore at all and know close to nothing about one of the most important factions of a setting you claim to care about. all this would accomplish is the destruction of GW as they betray the fan base that actually keeps it going in order to peddle to a group of people that dont even exist. now please fuck off with your retarded thread and the let the community that actually cares about the setting call the shots.
Wyatt Cox
Why are people so insistent on female space marine and not leave the lore alone.
Carter Ward
>We need female Space Marines. Why? We allready have them, you know they are called Blood Angels.
Evan James
It's because 40k players are worse than children. As for practical reasons, there's no real reason to make any. They already did a release of primaris and the codices aren't even fully released yet. No reason to go back onto marines until all the index gets shelved.
David Foster
friendly reminder to not fuck with autists as they will assault you with walls of text
Jaxson Walker
there are female armies, though we just need GW to remember they exist
Gavin Bell
This.
Joseph Thompson
I have the solution
>create female spess mreens, fluffed as 'situation is dire, we need more mreens from anywhere' >make them ugly as sin, no sex appeal >balding, brutish, scarred >fluff as 'turning them into Astartes is a gender-neutralizing process' >make them functionally indistinguishable from male mreens >SJWs can't reeee because muh evil Western standards of beauty >grogs won't reeee because c'mon, they're indistinguishable > ????? >PROFIT
you're welcome
Nicholas Miller
Twenty one fucking years Either squat the fucking army or release plastic models already, but this is fucking ridiculous
Evan Peterson
ya thats pretty much what this user said
Jonathan Perry
By the way, it's not true that women feel slightly less pain. Nature doesn't care if they suffer while they give birth because it has mechanism to make sure they remember it as a good thing after the child is born. Men require an higher pain tolerance because if they feel pain while doing thing outside they get distracted and get more easily killed. Women recquire a 33% higher percentage of painkillers during clinical operations. By the way, I don't know you faggots can allow the WH40K team to shit on your face this much. Isn't this like the 20th time they shat on the lore? And every time it gets worse. Just make hacked models with 3d printera
Jacob Cruz
Cawl uncorks the next batch of primaris marines. It's a 50:50 mix. nobody in universe even comments on this and everything continues as before.
What changes?
Oliver Thompson
I dont really care if there are femal SM or not. I think is just one of those who gives a shit things that can be solved with a handwave. Its 40k you think they know anything about science? This is also irrelevant and can be solved with like 1 sentence. "The process makes women as stronk as men." Finally, , I think you are missing the point, since its not about wether they can have sex with each other its about representation. I think its really nice that the Stormcast Etrnals have both men and women in their ranks and kind of have models for them.
I generally find that this topic is just bait and that the against argument is pretty autistic and unreasonable. Its a Sci-Fi setting WITH MAGIC, anything is possible. However, I think the fact that there are only men in SM is totally fine. I just wish GW would have more female representation in their imperial gaurd and necron lines (dont want robo tits, just some more named characters in the fluff). I also would really like the Sisters to have a more prominant role as something other than "the faction that gets BTFO".
Oliver Murphy
women do feel less pain, they are just panzies about it.
when women and men are challenged the women are typically able to withstand more pain. the amount is not large, but there is a difference
thankyou user for using my post.
exactly, it will literally change nothing, its completely token. the person that feels the change are the fans are their universe is permanently changed without notice
Ayden Nelson
Geedubs change the universe without notice all the time though?
Where are my Zoats GW. Where are my fucking zoats.
James Cox
>I dont really care if there are femal SM or not. I think (You) is just one of those who gives a shit things that can be solved with a handwave. Its 40k you think they know anything about science? This (You) is also irrelevant and can be solved with like 1 sentence. "The process makes women as stronk as men." you see, this is why you are retarded, you have a fundemental misunderstanding on what the gene-seed is.
please read this entry (yes i know its a wiki, but it is pretty accurate) and realize why thats impossible given the established lore.
to add "it makes women as strong as men" would require introducing a new gene-seed organ as the current organs that increase strength and durability only ENHANCE the already present strength of the initiate
Wyatt Baker
We don't NEED female space marines, but I'd personally like them to exist. What we NEED are plastic models for Sisters of Battle.
Hunter Roberts
>the fact that primaris marines exist is a reason why we can have female marines How?
Asher Mitchell
While as a whole I agree. This is filled with so much pseudo science bullshit it's painful. A few to note >small women were desirable This is not how evolution works, and this is only a recent trait people enjoy. >no women in the special forces There are women in the rangers. They do have a lower physical standard, but they're above the average soldier and are capable of running the missions. >feel less pain Higher tolerance of pain
Christopher Lee
Sorry, but you are wrong sciencealert.com/do-women-tolerate-pain-better-than-men Tl;dr: there's not a single reason for women to become space marines and if w40k happened in real life everyone would unsertand why Just 3d print them you moron stop giving money to this people, they don't care about you
Austin Anderson
Given the hormones and gene-therapy used, Female Marines would become Trans anyway. They'd be turned from females to bales by the process which makes Space Marines. That's arguably more progressive, but we all know the Feminists hate Trans people.
Colton Myers
Thanks for the ad-hom, fampia.
I suppose I should have added that 40k's fluff is pretty fluid and that GW changes shit all the time. Notice how Cawl just magically created new Space Marines out of thin air? Theres nothing stopping him from say, making a major discovery regarding the gene-seed.
Jayden Wright
This is pointless.
You are all trying to argue fictional hand-waving lore with people who don't give a single tarnished tin shit about whether or not it's consistent. They want what they want, and they don't care whether or not it makes sense in terms of story -- their egos and identities are so fragile they *can't* tolerate anything that doesn't "represent" them -- not one single fictional faction can be "no girls allowed." Ever. Story set in medieval Norway? Where are the trangender left-handed half-Arabic half-Africans! Discrimination! I don't feel welcome in this fandom!
They. Do. Not. Care. About. Your. Explanations.
So rather than approaching the issue from the perspective of "hey, that breaks established lore," it's better to just mock and ask questions like "what about male Sororitas?" and "well, do you *like* our incredibly disgusting prototype for female Plague Marines?" I'm willing to bet NONE of these people are thinking about CSMs when they post this stupidity -- they just want to self-insert as Mary Sue superheros.
Not that doing it that way will make a difference (except by possibly making them seem even more unreasonable to anyone who has yet to form an opinion), but trying to reason with the unreasonable is a waste of everyone's time and bandwidth.
Jaxon Jones
Wasn't the actual explanation in universe that there could be female space marines. They were just so much more rare and it's already so expensive to do males that even bothering to look for females would be mostly wasteful and too expensive to bother for the few that could actually make the cut?
Gabriel Morris
>This is not how evolution works, and this is only a recent trait people enjoy. ok, ill give you the fact that that argument is a bit weak.
>There are women in the rangers. They do have a lower physical standard, but they're above the average soldier and are capable of running the missions.
there are under 10 female rangers, thats less than 0.003% of the total ranger count (assuming current reported total as being around 3500), and to even achieve that 0.003% they need to lower the standards.
>Higher tolerance of pain you are right, I will have to change my wording
Chase Morales
There's be no point in my opinion. Under that bulky armor, everyone would look the same. If they wear a helmet, there'd be no way to tell their gender.
Adam Richardson
Only if we also get male Sisters of Battle.
Michael Garcia
fairly sure the women you're thinking of got a ranger tab, rather than becoming rangers. The process of getting a ranger tab is difficult, but nowhere near as bad as becoming a ranger
Leo Torres
I'd actually like to see female space marines. Too bad GW sucks at sculpting females and will probably just hump out another abomination.
Adrian Ross
>I suppose I should have added that 40k's fluff is pretty fluid and that GW changes shit all the time. Notice how Cawl just magically created new Space Marines out of thin air? Theres nothing stopping him from say, making a major discovery regarding the gene-seed.
GW introduced primaris marines as a means to kick start 8th to save their dying franchise. it was a necessary thing to do. introducing a gene organ that would allow for female space is totally pointless because it serves no purpose in advancing the plot of 40k. There is not problem to be solved by makeing female space marines.
Jackson Myers
"We need female space marines!" "No, because lore!" "No, because science!" "Might I point out that they change the lore all the fucking time?" "Fuck you!" etcetera, etcertera
John Watson
feeling the need to have female space marine proves the sexism of the modern feminism movement
Brandon Robinson
It's pretty heavily implied that Erebus is a woman, and Sisters of Battle wear Power Armour anyway.
Brandon Gonzalez
because women are useless and should only be used for sex, entertainment and to make more men
Robert Richardson
Is it time?
Hunter Gomez
>>fluff as 'turning them into Astartes is a gender-neutralizing process' We already have Blood Angels and their ilk to prove this isn't universally true.
Camden Sullivan
>need
Josiah Smith
so much autism in one post, I could not even finish reading it
Aaron Gomez
>gets BTFO by arguments he can't answer >"y-you're autistic..." I'm laughing at your humiliation and at your limp response to it, user. We all are.
Nicholas Myers
>THERE ARE NO WOMEN IN THE SPECIAL FORCES OF ANY BRANCH OF THE UNITED STATES MILITARY
Though, the Jegertroppen do exist so you can't really say that they don't exist in special forces in general.
Landon King
>exactly, it will literally change nothing, its completely token The difference would be that someone who is uncomfortable rp'ing having a penis would be able to not have that choice without breaking canon, and those who look for ways to break canon with their snowflaek characters (which I've had to play alongside / refuse a PC slot to, more than a few times) would have to do something else to be special.
Only if the matter is truly introduced in a way that doesn't play up female astartes being rare, available to/from a limited number of chapters, etc. of course.
Camden Williams
>The difference would be that someone who is uncomfortable rp'ing having a penis would be able to not have that choice without breaking canon GW is not responsible for your neurosis.
Gavin Campbell
Cawl: "Hey Guilliman, I figured out I can put gene seed in women, wanna double the pool of potential recruits for space marines?" Guilliman: "Sure, why not?"
Christopher Gutierrez
There's already a mostly female army, and you don't play them anyways. Why should GW make a huge change to the game just to attract people who aren't actually interested in the product except as a way to virtue signal?
Alexander Rivera
i never said in general, just in the united states. the United states has the best trained army in the entire world since we have been at war for basically decades now. We have some of the highest standards for warfighers.
that fact that norway has female only SpecOps just proves my point that they can't make the regular cut, or such a thing would not even be necessary
>The difference would be that someone who is uncomfortable rp'ing having a penis would be able to not have that choice without breaking canon
if it makes you uncomfortable just play as a inquisitor, futhermore this entire point is irrelevant because space marines do not even act like fucking humans. most no longer have a concept of sexuality.
also this
Camden Flores
>that fact that norway has female only SpecOps just proves my point that they can't make the regular cut, or such a thing would not even be necessary
Or maybe it's to deal with the other thing people bitch about, that putting men and women in the same group makes men protective of the women.
>if it makes you uncomfortable just play as a inquisitor
Someone playing an inquisitor in Deathwatch would be a damn joke (Despite the deathwatch...working with inquisitors so it would work fluffwise) as marines are better at literally everything than humans.
Oliver Robinson
>The strongest woman in the world is BTFO by the average male bodybuilder
I dunno, most SOB Cannonesses would likely kick the ever loving shit out of a bodybuilder.
Brandon Wilson
You know what? We don't give a shit about women. They are useless in combat, useless in game. We like them only as friends, gfs, mothers, daughters and sisters outside those situations. We don't want women in fucking games, we don't need women in fucking games. Fuck you
Kayden Lopez
>double the pool of potential recruits for space marines
The strongest woman in the world is BTFO by the average male bodybuilder
SM Chapters do not recruit average men.
Lucas Murphy
then just dont play as a space marine, GW does not make its money from dead rpg's, it makes it from the tabletop game. it retarded to piss of your money makers just to cater to a system you dont even fucking support anymore
Cameron Miller
This --> And this --> And this --> There are a huge number of options for people who don't want to deal with male characters in their armies/RPGs, and yet somehow people still spouting off about this are absolutely devastated that they can't self-insert as ONE particular faction (again, I have yet to see ANYONE pushing this talking about CSMs). That tells me it doesn't have a damned thing to do with "representation."
Joseph Gomez
>GW is not responsible for your neurosis. Nor I yours.
John Cook
>its about representation. Who gives a fuck about that?
Aaron Brown
this "geneticist" doesn't know shit.
The double X chromosome make women less likely to have mutations, as one can cover for the other if it's fucked. Guys only have the one, so if it's changed, you're screwed. That makes genetic modification a lot easier with males, as they only have to change half the chromosomes
Not to mention that providing the test needed to make women as strong as men constantly would place a massive strain on the empire's resources. SM recruit from shitholes, they aren't gonna have the ability to provide people with roids
Lucas Sanders
>calls the Y useless >later says how X0 is as healthy as XX
dumb idiot, not even worthy of a read.
Jackson Allen
>There are a huge number of options for people who don't want to deal with male characters in their armies/RPGs Sure. Until it's All Astartes Deathwatch, then it's, "Either you have a dick, or you're asking me to break canon as GM by allowing your PC into the game."
Lucas Wright
>There's already a mostly female army, and you don't play them anyways. Why should GW make a huge change to the game just to attract people who aren't actually interested in the product except as a way to virtue signal?
Said mostly female army also hasn't had any new support in literal decades.
Chase Brooks
My general solution to that would be 'You are now playing a SOB, use the exact same rules because you are a particularly badass one'
Landon Sullivan
He's not asking for male sisters of battle though
Brayden Brooks
>"virtue signal"
yeah fuck off with the /pol/speak there buddy
>wanting female characters in the army/armies that get the spotlight and most support is totally not about representation because there's a 20 year old all metal online sale only army of women guis
stop drinking the kool-aid user, you're not looking nearly as cool as you thin you are
Adam Watson
>again, I have yet to see ANYONE pushing this talking about CSMs I try to block out the bullshit I've endured from Black Crusade players and their justifications for why they have bobs and vegine under their super-sized power armour.
Dominic Wright
>we need female zealots in power armour gee I wonder
Camden Collins
>deep vain thrombosis I cannot recall a single marine having a fucking heart attack
holy shit this chick is fucking stupid
Xavier Ward
They feel the same amount of pain but it takes their body a bit longer to react to it.
Isaac Ross
Everyone here knows that sisters of battle exist, and this conversation would probably happen a lot less if SoB had more support.
Xavier Stewart
female space marines look dumb, sound dumb and would ruin the manly men doing manly war shit look dumb
>but we could make them very similar to the male marines why have them then?
Michael Wood
The important question is why does it matter if a woman is part of the infantry, literally the who gives a fuck of the military?
There are far more important and meaningful roles a woman could be in rather than >generic space marine with a CHAINSAW
Austin Reed
Yeah, which runs into 'There is more Primaris units than there is SOB at this point'. A small subset of space marines, only recently released already has more support than the faction that's existed for 20 years.
The 'want female space marines' thing comes down heavily to 'Want to have a female army that gets support' most likely. If SOB got the sort of support that Tau got, let alone marines, there wouldn't be complaining but people who want support for female models try to hitch the wagon to the faction that actually gets support regularly.
Jose Sanders
I'd actually like that as a canon option when playing Dark Heresy. They get interesting chargen choices, but it risks other players / GM sperging out if I ask about it.
Nolan Walker
Because it's purely for political reasons and not any actual desire to play 40k.
Michael Collins
So demand plastic Sisters. Show GW that there's a market for them, that they'll even bring in new people into the game, and you'll get plastic SoB.
Gavin Watson
I wonder if GW likes to see me hurt
Kayden Reyes
The reason there are no female space marines is because even if there was you still wouldn't be satisfied. The fact that you even want them to begin with is proof enough of this fact.
Think about it, for one there is already an entire female faction in the game, the Adepta Sororitas. I don't see you getting ants in your pants about there being no men in that faction now. As well, Tyranids can effectively be considered all-female because their hivefleets are controlled by Norn-Queens, which would make their species a matriarchy.
Then, we get into the fact that most of the other factions have mixed genders. Like the Imperial Guard for example. There's all men regiments, but also all women and mixed regiments as well. The Tau literally do not care about gender in their military. In fact, one of the greatest commanders is female. Necrons are considered either mixed or having no gender at all. This is because literally their entire race has been converted to machines. It's not like they just left the women out of the conversion process while doing that. The Adeptus Mechanicus are mixed, but it's almost impossible to tell which is which because they augment themselves so heavily they're effectively machines, sometimes even considering themselves more machine than human. Chaos does not care about who it corrupts, so you'll have both men and women fall to it. Orks are fungoid creatures that don't even have genitalia, so you can say they don't even have gender. As well, they wouldn't care about such things either because it's not about fighting.
See, all around you is all this gender diversity, and here you are still bitching about female space marines. I bet even if they did do that you'd just find some other gender issue to complain about. And to top it all of GW wouldn't do this because they're not going to sacrifice what trust of their fandom they have left to appease you and the other 10 feminists who probably don't even participate in the game itself.
Andrew Sullivan
Do you know why the sisters of battle came to be in the canon?
protip: having male sisters of battle defeats the point of the fluff.
Carter Ortiz
>The 'want female space marines' thing comes down heavily to 'Want to have a female army that gets support' most likely. There's at least one person who just wants to GM & play the RPGs without having genitalia dictated by campaign or character choice.
Asher Miller
>Show GW that there's a market for them, that they'll even bring in new people into the game, and you'll get plastic SoB.
People HAVE been doing that. The SOB cannoness model? Sold out, multiple times...then didn't actually get a unit in 8e. The GW quizzes about 'Who are you buying our trio of special characters for' was heavily leaning Celestine and they've been asked basically every single event since 3e they have 'SOB When'. It's been going on for 20 years at this point despite that.
Gavin Lewis
Well, the reason that SoB don't receive a lot of support is because people don't buy them, and they never will receive support unless people buy them. While I'd like to see them supported, I personally don't want them.
Jacob Rogers
Mind you, Guard don't have any actual female MODELS currently and SOB have not been supported in forever so those two kinda fall down hard as 'Diversity exists'.
Connor Ramirez
>Grenade has no pin rip sister
David Jones
>we need female space marines >no abhumans though, they’re ugly
Sebastian Jenkins
So we should change an already established faction in order to fix those problems instead of just, you know, fixing those problems?
Jaxson Jenkins
>Well, the reason that SoB don't receive a lot of support is because people don't buy them, and they never will receive support unless people buy them.
And people won't buy them unless they get support. It's like Dark Eldar, who people never bought until they actually got an update. Most people who are interested in buying SOB despite the lack of additional support already HAVE all the units they'll ever need until a new unit starts existing.
Julian Jenkins
i never realized that, o fuk
Owen Nelson
Then go ahead and do it, no one can dictate how you play your games.
Andrew Anderson
Thank you for reminding me, Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau, that this setting is totally fixed and immutable in tone and detail. What would I ever do without you?
Andrew Brown
What's the point of having a sister of battle if it isn't female?
Brody Wright
Which mostly links into The call for female space marines is a symptom of 'Marines are the guys who get all the support and they are male only'. If support was more spread out, it wouldn't be such an issue.
Hudson Morgan
That only works insofar as I'm the GM and everyone wants to play in a non-canon game.
Look around you and think a bit longer on that one.
Brandon Lopez
Plus who the fuck is stopping you from changing your models to be female anyway? Are you afraid you'll receive a cease-and-desist letter or something?
Logan Rogers
You seem to imply two are exclusive things
Jackson Young
How will changing the Space Marine's models and lore help make female Imperial Guard models and gain support for Sister of Battle?
Robert Nelson
>things would be actually okay >but things is factually not okay >BUT THING WOULD BE OKAY IF I COULD JUST CHANGE SHIT AROUND
What's the point of changing the setting to have male battle nuns or female roid knights?
Ian Gonzalez
You don't actually play 40k and you won't if they make female space marines so why do you even care?
Christian Davis
Boo-fucking-hoo. Either find people that want to play that way or find a new game.