So I've been getting into the Star Wars universe in response to the newest movie being a shitstorm...

Legit did not know that about the magnaguard. Cool stuff.

youtube.com/watch?v=LtP5lSQgll8

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>would fuck with the narrative the movies are going for.
That narrative was shit anyway.

General Grevious was truly the most sympathetic character in the entire series.

>Fights for the freedom of his people
>Jedi join the war against him
>Gets horribly maimed
>Becomes an robotic monstorsity
>Told the Jedi did it
>Is simply a pawn in the games Sheev
>No Grevious-Obi-wan redemption arc
>Dies to a fucking blaster

Better than that edgy twit Darth Maul by a mile.

I really like the episodes from the clone wars series (the 3d one) that makes the CIS more morally grey than what is depicted in the movies. There's certainly some merit to the issues the CIS had with the Republic, and having pure good vs pure evil feels a little too simplistic for my tastes.

I think the thing is though that the way the CIS was dealing with them was being controlled by palps so they were little more than pawns as well. Without that shit being stirred, diplomacy might have actually solved issues rather than escalating to war.

This CIS just wanted independence from the Republic. And keep in mind that the Republic started the war by invading the Sovereign planet of Geonosis after a couple of criminals had broken into a factory and was facing the punishment fit for the local law

>And keep in mind that the Republic started the war by invading the Sovereign planet of Geonosis after a couple of criminals had broken into a factory and was facing the punishment fit for the local law

As opposed to say, invading Naboo?

That’s wasn’t an action made my the CIS, that invasion was made by the Trade Federation prior to joining the CIS and after paying the immense fines and sanctions placed on them after the invasion.

Also Naboo couldn’t pay the trade federation and in turn broke their contract, making the Trade Federation our the blockade into place.

No?

>Prior to the invasion, the Trade Federation used the Free Trade Zones to conduct untaxed business. The Galactic Senate, however, decided to make them eligible for taxation. This angered the Federation, which decided to retaliate by blockading the Mid Rim planet Naboo.

Republic lies and slander.

>People don't let you get away with tax evasion
>You don't let people get away with outstanding debt

It honestly seems fair to me. You need to make up for your losses somehow.

NABOO DID NOT RESPECT THE CONTRACT

>You don't let people get away with outstanding debt

Which debt? The only source of that I can find is a non-canon book.

I think you mean jolly saturnalia

This is Star Wars. Do you really expect any villain to not be edgy?

Roger Roger!

It is mentioned in the film I believe.

How many clones did the Republic field?
And apart of that, how many local forces? Because a Galaxy spaning civil war should move incredible quantities of personal.

Not that I can find. The debt stuff purely turns up on the legends part of the wiki rather than the canon part.

Not jews.
They're space chinks

They only fielded like three million units originally.
Whether that means three million clones or three million units formations I don't know

I think unit = 1 clone

The Republic went with quality instead of quantity

The sad part is: The CIS was actually right.

The Republic was an overtaxing, inefficient and corrupt shithole. The CIS was somewhat justified actually.

Of course they were the pawns of Sheev all along but in a scenario where all force users suddenly die a painful death, the CIS would have been right.

A secession would have allowed the CIS to prosper while the Republic might have actually reformed after losing the war.

That being said: I am an Empire man myself.

Those robots were gay as fuck and seemingly made of pipe cleaners and toothpicks.

>gay
Nigga like that's a bad thing
>made of pipe cleaners and toothpicks.
They're cheap mass produced gun mounts with legs, what do you expect? It's the other variants that had some modicum of durability.

Those droids were clearly not meant for fighting Jedi which, given circumstance, seems like a significant oversight.

How would you even do that? Mount some automatic shotguns on them?

For a theathre than Spans hundreds (if not hundreds of millions) of planets? Seems very little. Like France and the likes could do that two hundred of years ago.

When was the last time sci-fi writers understood the sense of scale?

There is no way of mass producing droids capable of holding their own against Jedi. The programming, materials and R&D involved would all be far too expensive to produce more than a handful of elite units.

I think the shit excuse is that you need relatively few soldiers to hold strategic locations on planet, the "real" war being fought by starships

Then where do you get the ship crews from? The Republic has hundreds, if not thousands of ships that need to manned, and many of them require comparatively large crews.

True that.

The jedi are a couple thousand at best, and even a lucky shot from a shitty mass produced droid can kill one, you could lose a million droids for every jedi and the CIS would count itself lucky.

>When was the last time sci-fi writers understood the sense of scale?
Sci-fi writers tend to mess up scale even when writing relatively hard sci-fi. What hope does something like SW have?

>The programming, materials and R&D involved would all be far too expensive to produce more than a handful of elite units.
Or, y'know, just have them blow up when attacked with a melee weapon. That would do the trick.

They'd just force-push them into each-other.

To be fair, the wheel droids in Episode 1 seemed to have outmached ObiWan and Quigon...

The Jedi anticipates the explosion using the Force and escapes from it, before exploiting this weakness to cause a chain reaction. , is right, droidekas are the only real mass fabricated droid that can give a Jedi trouble.

well, they did get kinda fucked when they got surrounded in that arena too, and that was mostly just light and heavy droids

By the middle of the war Jedi learn how to deal with drodikas relatively easily

Chinks are the Jews of Asia, so it actually fits together quite well.

>space jews
>implying they arent anarcho-capitalist as can be

They crowd-sourced a robot army under the banner of "Hippity Hoppity get your trade route taxes off my property". CIS wasnt just popular due to muh force hacks, a lot of seperatists were into a Libertarian movement

The film says two hundred thousand units ready with a million more on the way, but never explains what a unit is.

One author tried to explain the Republic as only having three million clones, but that was quickly shut down by the editorial staff, saying that they could not and would not provide full numbers to the Grand Army of the Republic, but it was more than three million.

TCW (the 3d series) had an arc about them ordering an additional five million troops, with the caveat that it would all but bankrupt the Republic - and they went ahead and did it anyway.

>I am an Empire man myself.
talk about overtaxing, inefficient and corrupt

>but they aren't inefficient! They have fascist efficiency!
Which of the death stars was efficient? How short sighted would the design of the Tie Fighter have to be to be deemed inefficient? How many star destroyers have to be parked over every fringe fucking planet before people start wondering if rule through oppression might be a money sink like nothing else?

>When was the last time sci-fi writers understood the sense of scale?

Iain M Banks and The Culture series. Trillions of combatants, tens of billions of casualties, thousands of planets decimated.

Hard to say. Iirc, a throwaway line in the cartoon mentioned that the republic army was outnumbered 100:1. Since the droid army was in the low quadrillions or something, that would imply trillions of clones.

Now, in AotC, they mention that like 3 million units are ready, with more on the way. This could be interpreted in a few ways:
>There are only 3 million clones
Unlikely. Say what you want about George, but he at least seems to grasp scale; I find it unlikely that he wouldnt notice how small that number is for a galactic theater

>3 million units as formations
This is a popular theory. 3 million divisions would probably be sufficient for a galactic war, understanding that the Republic doesnt constitute the WHOLE galaxy.

>3 million "ready"
This could mean that there are 3 million clones in their battle-rattle, ready to deploy at a moments notice. The other clones then would be at a "low-ready" status. This WOULD be consistent with the Geonosis scene, where they take the "Ready" strike force and the rest of the clones are mobilized off-screen.

Personally I think a mix of points 2 and 3 are most likely.

Once again I think, but I'm not sure, that the bulk of the ship crews is comprised of regular humans rather than clones.
Or it could simply be that authors are retarded and can't into scale. Same thing is plaguing universes like 40k

Hilarious. The Soviets had 30 million men under arms during WW2 and they were only about 5% of planet Earth's population back then.

The Republic planets must have been thinly populated as fuck if 3m is the best they could manage. 300m would be a small under for the scale of the "Galactic Republic".

Original Clone Wars series General Grievous is God-tier Gen. Grievous.

To be fair, when everyone was first introduced to Grievous in the Clone Wars mini-series, he was basically to Jedi what Jason Voorhees is to horny teenagers: death incarnate.

>basically to Jedi what Jason Voorhees is to horny teenagers

Holy shit, was he ever. What a disappointment in the actual SW movies.

>Based Tartakovsky should have directed the Original Series

General Grievous really fucked the Jedis.

hentai-foundry.com/pictures/user/Dboy/253755/Clonewars-28-Animation

>the CIS were good boys who didn't do anything
except each member party have all the bad parts of a megacorp with none of the good

Isn't the CIS army more akin to the Saudi one?

>You go home CT!

Yeah, the inability of the shield to handle low-speed objects iirc (Needed to allow the droidika to walk about). I remember the clones learning that you could roll a grenade through the shield.

To be fair, Grievous' disappointing showing in the movies is kinda justified by the fact Mace Windu crushed his lungs during the Battle for Coruscant.

Speaking of Windu, Grievous is one of the few lightsaber duelists to fight on even footing against Mace (that he adapted to Windu's Vaapad style in a matter of seconds.). This is the same Windu who overwhelmed Sheev.

Grievous ≥ Mace Windu > Palpatine in terms of lightsaber skill?

But nobody can do a Sheev spin like one and only Sheev can.

Wait what, Palpatine was clearly holding Mace Windu because he knew Anakin would come "save" him and fall to the dark side in the attempt

...

I'll see your Sheev Spin and raise you one 'Grievous Buzzsaw'.

But what if we combined the two? What could possibly stop such a thing?

As dooku once said to the guy, fear and surprise were his most valuable weapons. Against a master jedi in the open, grievous would have no chance.

Grievous+prepared master jedi = unwilling train ticket.

The high ground?

That's one thing about the new trilogy. It's returned to depicting the Force in the same way that the original trilogy did, rather than the ridiculous acrobatic superpowers of the prequel trilogy.

It's nice to see the audience gasp whenever rocks levitate, rather than laugh at the daft back-flipping Jedi.

Even in Genndy Wars grievous was nothing compared to the real duelists.

Why did they let Count Dracula and The Wolfman become Jedi, but not The Mummy?

The CIS is the equivalent of every major corporation and financial institution in the US pooling their money together to build a robot army, and declaring independence from the country by taking over the local governments around their HQs

user, who may be a good PC from ranks of CIS? Some local leader/aristocrat? Corporative officials/captains? Some generic droid general?

George Lucas should have know that he's not a director's focus actor nor a good dialogue writter. I dont understand why he chose to begin with Anakin as a child who by their very nature and inexperience are very difficult to deal with. On the other hand, it is likely that we would have been forced to endure Jar Jar as a main protagonist for three straight films. All the mistakes of the prequels, midhiclorians etc, snowballed from starting at Anakin's childhood.

Nah, it's just that George wanted a cowardly and moustache twirling villain over a military genious and killing machine that Grievous was in the original cartoon.

FUCK OFF CIS SCUM!

...

>300m would be a small under for the scale of the "Galactic Republic".

Honestly around 300 billion would be a small number. During TCW Mandalore makes a casual comment that 1,500 systems have joined them in non-aligned status, and yet this is considered a small organisation barely worth noticing. The sheer number of inhabited systems in SW must be absolutely gigantic.

Fiction writers in general have no sense of scale, sci-fi writers especially. I'd rather they just continue to keep the numbers on both sides vague than try to say things like a galactic army only has a few million soldiers.

It isn't. Like most scifi. It understimates a true galactic population.

A single fully colonized solar system could easily have a population numbering in many quadrillions. This is beyond any form of government ever imagined.

>It isn't. Like most scifi. It understimates a true galactic population.
Well most important things happen at character's squad level, and this happens on planet X where troops number may be within WW2 numbers, so scale is not so important or different from what we are accustomed for.

While said WW2 scale wars happens on thousands of planets at the same time, it is only insignificant background to most stories.

>established order is massively corrupt and basically unable to perform most of its responsibilities
>still acts as a totalitarian state, if you don't like it's decisions you're fucked
>group of people say "no, this is bullshit" and split off, declare independence
>chancellor gives himself absolute power over the Senate, only then isbthe Senate actually able to function

Further, what makes them "Jews?" The fact that they have money? How do you think the Republic got it's army?

The fact that the CIS governing body is exclusively made up of the Galaxy's biggest corporations and banks.

Reminder that the Banking Clan was neutral for a good part of the war. As well, the Separatist Senate was made up of lots of entities, many of which were just planetary governments that didn't like the Republic.

As well, there is a significant corporate interest in the Republic: Kaminoan cloners, Rothana Heavy Engineering, etc. It's like saying the Third Reich was actually Jewish because there were corporations that had political clout.

Remember that time Sheev had a friend of Padme's who was a CIS sympathizer put in charge of moderating the bank holdings of the CIS and Republic? Who he then faked an assassination to get the two of them closer in order to get Anakin to think Padme had wandering eyes? And then he had Dooku break the arrangement and seize the bank with a token force just to draw Padme's friend in to kill him, all so Sheev could assume sole power over the galactic banks?

>Banking Clan
>Neutral
Pick one, they jewed the Republic hard throughout the whole war while giving great deals to the CIS. Nevermind that they had a guy there on Geonosis when the CIS was formally founded, and that they also manufactured battledroids for them as well.

Yeah but Hollywood pleb science fiction tends to think space colonization is limited to earthlike planets. How many movies have pulled the "Earth is overpopulated" card to justify colonizing a planet 5+ light-years away?
We will never see a mainstream SF setting as populated and varied as the Star Wars galaxy but in billions of O'Neill cylinder city-states orbiting one star.

That'd actually be pretty fucking cool, but then you'd have to factor in each species' unique atmospheric needs and each cylinder would essentially be suited for maybe a handful of species tops. Then again, that's more license to get even crazier with what aliens populate them, which is cool.

My bad, the Mummy is a Jedi too.

What is the point in colonizing everything in one system at a huge density, or building extensive orbital habitats, when getting to that earthlike planet 5+ light years away is almost effortless?

Which is exactly why it doesn't happen in most sci-fi. The Dyson Swarm hypothesis only works if FTL speed travel is impossible.

She(ev) thicc