/awg/ Alternative Wargames General

This is why they say not to feed the animals at the zoo edition.

>What is /awg/?
A thread to talk about minis and games which fall between the cracks, or people's homebrew wargames. /hwg/ doesn't entertain fantasy (for good reason) and the other threads are locked to very specific games, so this thread isn't tied to a game, or a genre, lets talk about fun wargames.

Any scale, any genre, any company, any minis. Skirmishers welcome. Rules designers welcome.

>Examples of games that qualify
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miniature_wargames
Grimdark Future, Age of Fantasy, Mighty Armies, Dragon Rampant, Of Gods and Mortals, Frostgrave, Hordes of the Things, Songs of Blades and Heroes, Freebooter's Fate, Dark Age, LotR and anything that doesn't necessarily have a dedicated thread (gorkamundheim).

>Places to get minis
docs.google.com/document/d/1D2DbNJ2mYAUxh5P9Pq9NZqS5tXHGn0i2JhZchEwbA2I/edit?usp=sharing

>The Novice Trove
pastebin.com/viWJ1Yvk

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Other urls found in this thread:

dropbox.com/sh/r53e3xgitpr4v9d/AACH9AT701jBszfuXo-0LXoWa?dl=0
lmgtfy.com/?q=a jack of all trades but a master of none is oftentimes better than a master of one
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Also this was posted over on Facebook today.

what's the difference?

Era? Resurrection says it takes place after the Ragnarok.

Also no indication if it'll be two Kickstarter or just one and then Res will just come out in 2019. Also pretty bummed I gotta wait until 2019 for it.

Something I'd like to see Knight Models do is release updated carda for all the 1st edition stuff. Especially because aome guys have rules that don't seem to exist anymore, and others (like Two-face and Black Mask) have been rolled into new factions with all sorts of crossover. Also it would let people with stuff from 1st edition take advantage of that new card holder.

I get why they haven't, and probably never will, since that's a huge undertaking, but man it'd be nice for everything to be up to date.

Well for one it would be a shitload of cards.
It goes to around 330 and not counting repacks if my count is right.

>prestige reissue
A whatnow?
Reissue sounds like making the old models again.
Prestige sounds like doing something fancy/expensive.

does there exist a skirmish level ruleset that allows for armies of different eras/genres?
basically heroscape in concept but not requiring a massive bin of terrain and allowing for miniatures from any line

sorry if obvious question I'm new to awg and there wasn't much info in the novice trove

Yeah, which is why I know it'll never happen.

Although it would appear that Arkham City Ras has a couple of special rules that don't seem to exist in 2nd edition.

Which one?
Aren't they all included?

>Waiting until 2018 for a re-release
>Waiting yet another fucking year for a new edition

Jeez, I won't be surprised when it crashes.

I didn't see Precise Blow or Master Strategist in the compendium.

None that I know of, but basically any skirmish game will require a lot of terrain to be worth while. Especially anything where modern or futuristic guns can be involved.

Chain Reaction and its various genre-specific incarnations is built to work with whatever minis you have, and you don't generally need a lot of terrain for it.
The rules are largely interchangeable between every game, meaning you can splice them together like legos.

snip li /TwoHourWargames

There both in there. Grand strategist is combined with strategist. Precise Blow is in the special attacks section.

There are a number of rule sets that allow you do fluff your own miniatures.

Stuff like Lion/Dragon Rampant could work for this, any kind of modern/sci weapon could be represented by magic or other projecticle weapons from those rules.
Rogue Stars is a kitchen sink game, it has rules for anything from knives and muskets to laserguns and lightswords. It's a game with smaller scope though, you get a maximum of 6 guys per side and it's almost an rpg in terms of granularity, although there are some rules to simplify the rules a bit on the FB page by the author.

Advanced Song of Blades and Heroes also has more extensive magic rules I think, so that may work for modern stuff as well.

The FiveCore games may be worth a look. There is a sci-fi version of the game called 5 Parsecs from home and a number of ww2 specific things like 5 Men in Normandy for example. Not sure how compatible the supplements are in terms of balance though.

>There
They're

Ah, must have overlooked it. Thanks for letting me know!

Savage Worlds Showdown or BrikWars.

There's a drop box with all the cards for 1st edition models remade in the new format:

dropbox.com/sh/r53e3xgitpr4v9d/AACH9AT701jBszfuXo-0LXoWa?dl=0

Do any of you guys know what's up with Fallen Frontiers?

It's been super quiet after they did the Kickstarter and it doesn't seem like their FB/Twitter presence is super active. No news to be found apparently. Is the game doing alright or are they planning on expanding in any way?

I've been tentatively keeping an eye out for it, cause I think with a nice paintjob the models could look spectacular, but I never hear anything about it.

I haven't kept up with the fluff in the latest book, but it looks like TOS is either getting a Criid cosplayer, or Sonnia is going through a rough breakup.

I'm pretty sure its dead.

she got her hair burnt off when she lost the mask

I'm not sure how I feel about Wyrd shoehorning Malifaux Masters into TOS.
I was hoping for, and was advertised, a separate game.

How is the batman miniature game? Love the models not sure about the rules?

Oh okay. Be interesting to see how her story folds out with the Burning Man cult's.

Speaking of TOS, has anyone seen the full version of the rules they are using? All the cards and such are on their site, but for the core rules, its only the stuff they posted in updates during the KS.

Rules are pretty great. Heavy emphasis on pre-planning your turn since you assign counters to stats to do stuff.

It's pretty fun, happens to be my main game so I might be a bit biased. Not as big of an emphasis on activation count as Malifaux, due to the player with less models getting passes equal to the difference in models, but it still requires enough to take objectives (usually 3-4 is the lowest you want). Every model has a certain amount of counters they can allocate to different skills (movement, attack, defense and special) and the bigger names will have more counters than a prisoner mook.

Balance-wise, everything is fairly close (although there are shit models and great ones, a great player can have success with the bad models). League of Assassins are a bit lower on the scale compared to other choices, as are the team lists (Suicide Squad, Teen Titans, Birds of Prey and Secret Six), but as I said they're still decent on the table if you play to their strengths.

I don't think it's that big of an issue, personally I like that the 2 worlds are so heavily connected. In the latest 2 books there's been a heap of stuff mentioned that's shown to be relevant in TOS (Kirai joining the Court of Two, Lilith fighting a bunch of Gibbering Hordes mooks, the Burning Man) and Broken Promises is basically "Guild Post TOS: The Book"

I've had a quick look at the book (friend is a playtester, that's all I'll say) and there's not all that much that's not been revealed. Triggers are my favourite part of the rules, simply being able to declare as many as you're eligible is a welcome change (and allows for some fun potential plays). Can't remember if they've mentioned that though.

It's Sonnia, there's a book 5 artwork that's almost identical apart from the pose (and the artist of the TOS one is the old, and better artist so it's not in the shitty book 5 style)

>League of Assassins are a bit lower on the scale compared to other choices
And yet still entirely irresistible to me.

I'm ok as long as the crossover is limited and makes sense. I don't want to see Boss Som'er running around in TOS, but a few characters that have easy access and reasons to come over, like the Guild or smuggler chatacters, is fine. It os the same world, afterall.

They did mention the multiple triggers thing, they did it while showing off some cards where its important.

I'm okay with the core rules being simple, since that's been Wyrd's strength; simple core, the extras are what make it. I'm just worried that the game will never really get to see its potential because of how limited the initial released are. Most of the stuff the showed is ok, but pretty straight forward, with even the flipping mechanic being slightly better stats and an extra rule for the unit. But then you get the stuff like the Abyssinian's artillery piece using the flip as a super-shot that is expended when used, or the breachling bombs, things that show fun use of the mechanic.

I think the biggest hurdle the game will have is finding its audience.

have you ever liked a mini so much, you declined to disgrace it with your average painting ability and lack of tools?

I'm going to be honest, its why I have a closet filled with stuff to assemble and paint. Its been 7~ years since I touched a paint brush for various reasons and the fear of how rusty I've gotten keeps me from busting them out.

That and lack of space, I've moved 4 times in that space of time, trying to really unpack has been weird.

Just don't try to make a card holder for them, or you'll get sued

It'd be nice if they either halted the obvious power creep, or updated a few of the older models' cards to be more in-line with the new ones power.

hey man, you don't owe anything to a mini ok

the only thing you owe to a mini you like is to buy it--it's the only way to tell the company "hey, you made something awesome, I want you to take the money I suffer for because you deserve to make awesome things"


If you fuck up a paint job you can always repaint it. Working with high quality paints you can get a couple coats on without obscuring details (assuming you thin your paints correctly, here's a hint: use more water--#1 tip from competition painters is that amateur painters don't thin their paint enough)

If you continually fuck it up, you can always strip it and start again.

And if for some reason, you supremely fuck it up and it's beyond salvage--just buy another.

You don't owe anything to a mini, the best way you can honor a mini is to enjoy painting it. Pick up your brush and have fun man, if you're not having fun it's not a hobby, it's a chore.

Fucking finally.
For the people wondering what the first one is, it's probably a boardgame set in confrontatikn's universe. They said they would have made a boardgame to prepair the terrain.

It's making the old models available again, but expensive due to limited runs.

what's some good 3rd party warmaster minis

Those Frenchmen are taking too many siestas. At least the OOP stuff will be in our hands in about a year.

The classic line is going to be them putting old confrontation models back into production. Resurrection is going to still be a skirmish game, but it will have some board games with miniatures that are also compatible with the skirmish game.

What sort of power creep? I haven't noticed any of the new atuff being grossly OP.

Cards did change in a few ways going between 1st and 2nd, things like AA Scarecrow for example getting way better just through trait updates. Plus, when things are getting updated (Freeze box and the updated Sirens) people are whinging about having to buy new models, even though the cards are online to print and they're allowed to use the old models.

Old rackham minis are still available though.

Magic, new version of the old are just straight up better (Nightwing, Catwoman, Gordon and such)
Most henchman are also sraight up better.
The newer guys are usally just a bit better desu
Though Freeze makes it possible to play the one in the set as a new models so you could use both the old and the new which I find stupid as hell.

What henchmen are better? Looking at the first month's releases we have the Arkham Guards, who are nice but QRT are still better, the Joker henchmen, where one is dogshit (Whiteface) one decent (hobo) and one great (Bouffon) to compare to the old Master of Ceremonies and Punker. Bane's stuff is quite good, sure, but Duke isn't just a simple upgrade for Dallas cause he's a fair bit more expensive, Kabuto fills a nice Bane didn't have in theme before (undercover objective runner) and Billy is kind of similar to Mohawk but not really. The Two-Face box is mostly shit, that's all I'll say, and the new SWAT are competing with Delta and Alpha, two of the most cost effective models in the Brave and the Bold (who they also don't invalidate). The prisoners are great, but they're also pretty different from what came before outside of High Security. Token black Tyrone is a cheap brawler without the bodyguard utility of Prisoner 4, but slightly better at hitting, the carbine is completely new, and the automatic pistol isn't as good as the smoke prisoner purely because he lacks the smoke (read: the main reason he's taken)

Without going into the full cards, which would take a ridiculous amount of text, that's 1 example of a henchman who's a straight upgrade on previous models. Not exactly a major issue in that case, and how many people did you honestly see use High Security Henchman before?

About Nightwing, he's just not better than the old Nightwings. AC, sure, he is better, but that's a 5 year old model that didn't see play after AK Nightwing anyway. AK Nightwing, though, is still a serious choice compared to the resin one, because they fill different roles. New Nightwing is a pure beatstick, with a bit of maneuverability, but AK is the better choice against any serious ranged threat, and the better choice to lead a crew.

With Catwoman and Gordon, they're effectively an update of the old models, so they're tweaked to be better in the new edition, no big deal. The card changes aren't that minor anyway, just sticky tape a bit over the old card with the changes (like you'd do with an FAQ anyway, only here you have the option of buying a nicer looking sculpt with it as well)

I play Brave and the Bold, am I whinging that my old purchases are invalidated? No, I'm happy that I have new options that don't invalidate the old, so I have more variety to play with. If anything, my issue is with some crews having less stuff (seriously KM, give me the Rogues and I will play Central City Villains) and being more predictable when it comes to lists

Great and unique Skirmish system, quite characterful
Don't compare the best with the average.
Over 2 third of the 300+ models are underpowered and just plain bad.
Also QRT are part of the new releases, the game is not that new.
I am personally fine with new models replacing old but also denying power creep is wrong.
Going away from rereleases, new free agent and releases this year, flooded tournaments, which already had a bit of monolist problem, as they just proved stronger.
Things like Arkham Knight, Willshot, now Magic are a cut above the rest.
Furthermore Azbat might start a bad practice.

My main problem is I don't really trust Knight Model as it is a shit firm.

How does the DC Universe version compare to the Batman miniatures game?

Different games system, with a stronger focus on a single figure doing a lot of different things in a single turn, some batman models have rules in both.

Considered simpler then Batman as you don't plan that far ahead (reactive instead of proactive).
The gameplay choices often come down to choice of ability and activation and therefore feel closer to Malifaux gameplay.

DC Universe is fun to play in an hour and throw a buildings at Green Arrow.

why do awg publishers do such a shitty job of presenting their rulesets on their own website?
a lot of their books will have no description at all, and the ones that do will have short copy pasted descriptions full of buzzwords that tell me absolutely nothing about how the game plays
it irritates me even further when they have multiple rulebooks for a single theme and the site tells me nothing about what the difference between them is

Lack pf funds and manpower?
Some have the information it is only well hidden

Re-issuing the question from last thread:
>57016880

I'm looking for anything with a similar look, so basically any truescale fantasy or historicals that aren't TRUEST truescale, since those tend to be a bit on the thin and "flimsy" side, wheras the Perry LotRs have a certain amount of cartoony chunkiness in them without going heroic.

>Though Freeze makes it possible to play the one in the set as a new models so you could use both the old and the new which I find stupid as hell.
Chalk it up to Freeze making a clone of himself to try and do the same thing he does every night, Pinky.

As implausible batman villain shenanigans go, that doesn't even rate.

>It's making the old models available again, but expensive due to limited runs.
They'll still probably be far cheaper than trying to find originals in decent condition.

>what's some good 3rd party warmaster minis
There are a ton out there:
- Copplestone
- Eureka
- Magister Militum
- Pendraken
- Kallistra
- Onslaught
- Polar Fox
- Trolls Under The Bridge
- Warmonger
- TB Line

to name a few. Not always easy to find sellers, but they're out there. Also worth remembering some original stuff (empire, dwarves, elves, orcs) can often be found quite cheaply used. And you can often dip in to other scales (6mm for goblins and ratmen, 15mm for ogres and trolls, etc) which opens up the field even more.

What?? I thought Rackham and all that was dead?

Feels like a hail mary to get people to give a shit about TOS.

[smoke bombs behind u]

heh... personnel ja nai... shounen

Some French dudes bought out the rights and are rebooting the game. The new game is set after the Rag'narok apparently.

Any Frostgrave player have advice on what sort of Wizard to make? I'm just starting out.

The best bet is to go for kill spells, as with an elementalist. Try to kill the enemy crew, and after that leisurely take your time to pick up the treasure.

>not "honh"

In testing my game, I have come across a design dilemma.

My core rules themself are fairly tight. I've done several tests, hammered out a lot of edgecases, etc. Mechanically, the game is relatively simple to learn since a lot of its shtick is "magic-like interrupt stack," and using Strategy Points as a Focus-like resource to manipulate turn order (consecutive activations, pre-empting other reactions, splitting a unit's turn into two "one action" activations/reactions, etc).

However, I lack a proper setting. I mostly wrote the game due to 40k frustration but think the mechanics can easily stand on their own.

Should I make the game engine "generic-purpose" and maybe write splats for using it for different genres, or should I go for writing a baseline setting? If I do the second, then I would definitely need to focus on making it grounded enough to be relatable, yet open enough for "your dudes."

Has anyone faced a similar dilemma writing a game? I know in many ways I have the opposite problem of many writers ("I want to make a Skyrim game. What mechanics should I use?" is cliche).

>not playing with revised rules
Have fun being irrelevant if you aren't elemental
>why do awg publishers do such a shitty job of presenting their rulesets on their own website?
why are awg creators so bad at testing and playing their own games?

why isn't there a singular perfect ruleset that is applicable in all situations and for all minis?

Have you ever heard of the phrase 'Jack of all trades master of none'?

That.

Universal Miniatures Battles? Even that is only made for somewhat larger scale encounters.

I think the perry stuff looks fine next to the GW minis.
If you want a middle ground check fireforge, warlord (except anything they bought from wargames factory) or northstar though.
Foundry may have some ranges that could work, but they have shitloads of old models from different sculptors and eras, so it depends entirely on what you are looking at.

>However, I lack a proper setting. I mostly wrote the game due to 40k frustration but think the mechanics can easily stand on their own.
I think - at least around these parts - you'll be fine if you write a generic modern/sci-fi/fantasy supplement. If you want to go after 40k players you'll definitely need to do more spoonfeeding though.

because perfection is subjective.

>testing
comprised of?

No, perfection is regardless. Can we comprehend it is a different question.

There is, but we keep it secret to protect the grimoire from filthy casual eyes.

Hey does any one have scans of the Zoraida crew cards for malifaux?

The full phrase is actually "a jack of all trades but a master of none is oftentimes better than a master of one"

So by your reasoning there should be GURPS but for tabletop wargaming

my pdf is too large. link somewhere to upload
also, did you check the archive you spoonbegging knucklefuck

I checked the paste bin and couldn't find any malifaux stuff and idk just put it on mega

that mud looks so wet

Cool models.
What is?

>Pointing out Anons' misuse of adages
Great minds think alike.

This is a blue board user.

>The full phrase is actually "a jack of all trades but a master of none is oftentimes better than a master of one"

Source on that?

I think it’s league of shadows ninjas from the Batman miniatures game?

lmgtfy.com/?q=a jack of all trades but a master of none is oftentimes better than a master of one

fools seldom differ

>Wikipedia:
>"Still better than a master of one" is the end of the full phrase,[citation needed]

So I repeat, source? Where does this allegedly original version come from?

probably some dead white guy

I suspect it's from one of Abraham Lincoln's speeches about the internet.

four score and many year ago I started downloading JAV R1490033 and it's still stuck at 99% today, I beg of you kinsmen to seed that shit

A few sample games against myself, noting exceptional cases in the system ("how does interrupt vs an attack that hits multiple units," "what if a unit cannot attack its original target post-interrupt", etc), and finding folks to test against on Tabletop Simulator. Since the majority of the rewrite has been "turn structure," I have been able to just plug in statlines for other games.

I eventually plan to do "double-blind" testing with volunteers, but getting the cheatsheet and table of contents together is underway.

They're not League ninjas, I think they're from the new Test of Honour box

closest is probably SoBaH -- it's great as a napoleonics skirmish game, fantasy skirmish game, dungeon crawl, campaign system, etc etc

the big problem with a "singular ruleset" is dealing with different technology brackets, how should something like a lasergun be statted versus a crossbow etc

at a heroclix level you just smash them together (ie port them directly into SoBaH and make the lasergun a slightly better crossbow) but from a realism perspective you'd need to add a thousand pages of rules on ballistic physics if you wanted something like march up country (it's a novel) to be playable in a tabletop format

>the new Test of Honour box
Looks like it - sick.
Hopefully they are cheap enough that I can just grab a few because.

Can't you hit the archives for the last /mfxg/?
Pretty sure they had faction sets in the OPs.

Found it thanks.

>I eventually plan to do "double-blind" testing with volunteers
What does this entail in this context?

Glad they put up some more pictures. Looking forward to painting these.

>tfw I won't get my preorder until after Christmas

>Though Freeze makes it possible to play the one in the set as a new models so you could use both the old and the new which I find stupid as hell.
Can you? Isn't there something in the rules that says two models can't share the same name?

The henchmen in his new box are icy, freezy and coldy instead of snowy [#] like the medal ones, so can be repeated.

As says, it's only an 'issue' for the henchmen, and even then it's bringing more options in-theme where he had jack shit before. Hopefully it's a stop-gap thing until we get another Freeze box, but it's nice to have a few more options

Probably giving players the rules and letting them try it out without him couching.

They are Test of Honour, they're really nice.

Plastic or metals?
I assume the latter, but if they are plastics I could be into them...
It's just a shame a lot of my games are 32mm these days, and ToH seems to be a small/realistic 28mm.

They're pretty fun and easy to do an ok job with. Bear in mind though, the standard bearer has a pole and cross, but doesn't have standards included.
You'll have to find some to use or make your own.