So let's suppose a jedi was in a big war like they always apparently are

So let's suppose a jedi was in a big war like they always apparently are.

and was in an absolutetly grim situation, stranded deep in a warzone, no support, no extraction.

they had to turn to using darkside powers to do what they had to not only survive but by time for civilians and to save people. And this kept going, stranded in this war hellscape for 3 to 4 years.

If they kept using the dark side as needed, would they be considered a dark side user? would the jedi expel him from the order after he is finally rescued? How would other jedi react? what if he still believes in helping people and such.

And while he can't prove that the couldn't survive without using the darkside, it's uncertain if he could have.

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Took the easy route. Yeah he gets kicked out, and other Jedi probably shun his dumb ass.

just be a grey knight like every other horseshoe theorist in the star wars universe

I think it entirely depends on the writer given how inconsistent as fuck the setting is, as well as how the Jedi are acting today which depends on what era of the something like 5000 years of history you’re chatting about.
That said the most consistent version is that the Dark Side, as has been repeated over and over and over, is NOT actually stronger then keeping yourself in balance, it just looks flashier and cooler, which is prolly why the edgy sort of nerds into superficially “cool” stuff love it so much. Kinda like the equivalent of working out a lot and putting hard work into getting swole and getting fit compared to taking steroids that swell up your muscles and make you look bigger but mostly just fuck up your system.

If a Jedi did it in the heat of the moment and was genuinely repentful and felt bad about using it (but seriously, that never happens and the Jedi basically act like heroin addicts upon the slightest taste of the Dark Side in most stories) I think the Jedi would understand and would start a conversation with him about why giving into fear and anger to survive won’t really help him in the long run.

>"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."
The Jedi cannot fight in wars without being drawn to the Darkside. It is impossible. Yoda only saw this too late to stop it.

This is pretty much what happened to the Exile from KOTOR 2, and as you can probably tell from her title, they absolutely kicked her out of the order.

>Yoda only saw this too late to stop it.
youtube.com/watch?v=lAM6FycAyqA
It's one of the great themes of Star Wars; recognition of the impotence of violence comes too late.

Y'all mothafuckas need Kreia.

>“The greatest teacher, failure is.”

It's just a pity the failure always has to be personal.

Isn't that basically the story and the question KOTOR asks. Raven was in a giant war fighting some sort of space spartan wannabes, pretty much alone on their home planet so he said fuck it and went berserk on their asses and when he managed to help win the war even gained the respect from the madalorians and when he came home the Jedi were all OH NO U SO EVUL!

Not really. The jedi council's issue with Revan at first was just that they didn't think jedi should be taking a side in the war at all, not any particular dark side stunts he might hypothetically pull in he process (though he did pull a few). And he wasn't stuck alone, he brought a bunch of jedi with him and had the backing of the republic army.

>and when he came home the Jedi were all OH NO U SO EVUL!
Because he came home as a sith lord with an army of dark jedi and an inexplicably huge fleet and started conquering the republic.

Fair enough, I've not played it in literally 5 years at least. You learn something new every day.

If it wasn't, would you truly learn anything from it?

You can't use Dark Side powers without giving in to the Dark Side, without possessing the negative emotions and letting them control you. That's the whole point of them.

Revan's methods were bullshit anyway. When you do that mission in the jungle where you have to answer "what would Revan do" all he ever did was apparently to sacrifice planet after planet to raise morale somehow, as if uselessly losing planet after planet would make people trust in him or his ability to lead them to victory. And that was, of course, also what made him evil: he engineered tragedy after tragedy against his own populace to fuel their hatred and make use of it. Supposedly he was also meant to be a tactical or strategic genius somehow while everyone else in the military were completely incapable of conducting warfare, but if he was, he could've fought back without letting planet after planet get wrecked.

Force is just force. Use whatever you find suitable in the current situation. Light and Dark can go fuck themselves, find your way. And who gives a shit about choice when you're not having fun helping people?

I think he would have "discovered" that he can save a lot of lives by killing the enemy quickly and without mercy instead of trying to reason and use non-lethal tactics. So, yes, he would turn DS.

>If they kept using the dark side as needed, would they be considered a dark side user?
Yes.
>would the jedi expel him from the order after he is finally rescued? How would other jedi react?
He would be expelled and most jedis would be disgusted at him.
>what if he still believes in helping people and such.
The jedis do not really care about helping people. They have a dogmatic religion and anything outside of their dogma is considered evil, even if it actualy help others.
You can see it in the Clone Wars. The goal of the CIS wasn't really evil, and in fact could be seen as good considering how corrupt the republic was but the jedis sided with the republic anyway.
The same could be said about the Empire, if you consider the EU as canon

>That said the most consistent version is that the Dark Side, as has been repeated over and over and over, is NOT actually stronger then keeping yourself in balance
The jedis are not really in balance either.
Originally the jedis practiced both the dark and the "light" side of the force. That was the balance, and that's why Anakin was indeed the choosen one.

>"how corrupt the republic was" according only to a lying Sith
>genocidal tyranny is better than a little corruption

>The same could be said about the Empire, if you consider the EU as canon
Why the fuck would anyone ever consider the EU canon?

>If they kept using the black tar heroin as needed, would they be considered a junkie?

>genocidal tyranny is better than a little corruption
But the Republic was tyrannical. If they weren't, the secession would've happened without problems.

The Republic led and manipulated by the same lying Sith who manipulated the Secession was tyrannical, yes. The same Sith who insisted the Republic was corrupt but oh no not because of him. The same Sith who wanted to create that same tyrannical, genocidal empire.

>The goal of the CIS wasn't really evil, and in fact could be seen as good considering how corrupt the republic was
The problem with this is that the Republic was corrupt because of Palpatine, and the CIS was headed by Dooku anyway. The whole thing was a sham, with "high ideals" and "their goals aren't evil" being literally bullshit designed solely to sucker people into joining them and being patsies for the big Sith plan to take over the galaxy.

People like (You), as it turns out.

That comic was trashed. It's not accurate. There was never meant to be a light side. It's just the force and using it in a corrupt manner, the dark side.

>Let's murder a young orphan for every really good deed we do. Gotta keep that balance!

Fucking retarded. The Force already encompasses ALL of life and ALL of death so you don't need to go around kicking puppies to death just cause you enjoy helping out the homeless.

Say NO to the Darkside.

Canderous explains exactly what was meant. Revan would make sacrifices for strategic goals: he would sacrifice a so others were more defended. If you consider the tactic the Russians have always used, they give to let their enemies supply lines stretch thin by sacrificing land, and that's probably similar to Revan's entry into the war. He took the defenders from those sacrificed worlds and fortified other worlds, then used feints, mass deceptions to make counter attacks to reclaim them. He'd pump up the reclamation as a greater gain to morale than whatever loss the sacrifice was, and like you said he used the losses to fuel a resentment of the enemy.

In Kotor 2 it's stated that even as a sith he was careful not to destroy vital infrastructure which he seems to have intended to take and use against the threat in the darkness. Malek would order ridiculous bombings like Telos and Taris, but Revan would capture and use the infrastructure, and didn't overly reliant on the star forge like Malek did. SWTOR butchered the gravity of that threat and ruined Revan but fuck it.

It's action that matters, not what power you use.
Windu use force crush and he is a Jedi Master.

They probably get forced to go meditate out the dark side effect and that's it.

>Revan would make sacrifices for strategic goals: he would sacrifice a so others were more defended
The thing said straight up that Revan would leave plantes undefended so that the loss of the planets would make people would be more fired up against the Mandalorians. Sacrificing people for such a shitty reasons is hardly strategic genius. And the idea that morale would be higher from losing world than defending them is retarded. Nobody feels good about a commander who loses planets all the time. Defending a planet is also easier than reclaiming it, because in one case you have the planet's defenses, such as they are, and the planet's resources. Aandoning all that to the enemy and then reclaiming it would be idiotic. But that's Bioware's shitty writing for you.

Powers aren't inherently evil, there were some Jedi who could use force lightning with no ill effects(Luke Skywalker in Legends along with others). It's the intent and the target of the powers that caused you to shift towards the dark side.

So, the Republic had such a shit system that it took one guy to disrupt the entire system?
I would rather live in the Empire than in this shit republic.

Clone wars had things like that too

>the idea that morale would be higher from losing world than defending them is retarded
I see you aren't familiar with the idea of manipulating information. Imagine you're a soldier under Revan. A defeat that you don't hear about isn't an issue. If you do hear about it, it's through a filter meant to focus on hating your enemies for something they did, and that hate will then be immediately used in the reclamation. You don't hear anything before then. I don't think you're blaming Revan, since he only put his name on the reclaimation. There were no Republic troops defending the planet in the first place, so nobody will label him involved in it's loss.

The thing is that if a planet was being abandoned it's resources and defenses weren't strategically important and mandalorians weren't going to use those: they were in a rush to have the best fight ever, and he knew his enemy. They were oriented for the offense with basilisk war droids. Like paratroopers, you can't easily use those defensively. He abandoned what he couldn't defend in the preparation for the counter attack. Also again it was his entry into the war, when he was slowing the mandalorians down and slowly gaining influence with the Republics forces. Once he started pushing Canderous describes that as if it were just the beginning of the end of the war.

You're not thinking things through.

If your commander Revan is tasked with defeating the Mandalorians, then defeating the enemy when they attack worlds is going to boost your morale more than losing it would've. I've never read about a commander who loses cities on purpose just to boost the morale of their troops. "Lol wasn't me, aren't you angry at the enemy", good plan.
youtube.com/watch?v=mpjieIRRAp8
Made me think of this.

>fall to the dark side using your anger to save innocent lives
>let the innocents die and in your grief you turn to the dark side

Nice try OP.

>uses Dark Side to save people
>continues saving people under the influence of the Dark Side
THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS

>enemy doubles down and starts shelling settlements instead of trying to occupy them, brings out the nukes and the chemical weapons
Good job saving lives, hothead.

>If they kept using the dark side as needed, would they be considered a dark side user?
Probably
>would the jedi expel him from the order after he is finally rescued?
Depends, sometimes they get spelled, some times reeducated, sometimes they get some time off to chill
>How would other jedi react?
Depends

In Clone War show there have been situations in where Jedi alegedly and actually tap into the dark side, some are treated harshly, others are treated nicely, there isn't a rule that says how to act. It all depends if you did good in the end.

And this talking about canon. If we use what is now not canon anymore the possibilities are infinite. If you're the GM, do what you feel, but remember Jedi tend to be merciful and if he didn't harm any innocent most Jedi will be lenient. If you're the player, ask your GM.

I think Mr. Bendu knows more about the force than your dumb ass.

What's that, a tauren?

Know he is an ancient master of the force he stays in the middle of light and dark. And no he isn't a grey Jedi before you ask. He is also the first being shown to do that summon lightning trick Yoda did in TLJ.

>"evil and good are both dumb lmao, I'm the smart one in the middle"
>does nothing until he gets provoked enough to sperg out at everyone
>blows up the Imperials and the Rebels with a lightning he might not be able to control
>gets punked by Thrawn
>mutters 'nothin personnel kid' and vanishes into the ether
Just what did they mean by this?

It's almost like Star Wars is a simple black and white setting not made for any degree of nuance.

>It's almost like Star Wars is a simple black and white setting not made for any degree of nuance.

not really; if anything, it's more nuanced than you're giving it credit for.
A good person can be compelled to commit acts of evil and be changed forever by them.

When would a Jedi have found time to practice dark-side powers in the first place if he wasn't already corrupt?
I was under the impression it worked like a point-buy system, you couldn't use powers you hadn't learned, or if you did anyway they would be very limited. I can't imagine anyone not named Rey would be capable of such a thing without SOME training.

I mean, people are literally winning elections based on disrupting the system globally...

>Dark Side Powers

No such thing, you dufus. There is the Force, and some people can access power from it. Being lazy, self-indulgent, and self-centered in your access of said power is 'dark side powers' because you accessed them without respect for either yourself, or the energy that binds all things.

Does this weakness mean you're lost? No. But consistently doing this, disrepecting yourself and all things by using the force for convenience rather than neccessity, belies the damaged personality that is unlikely to turn away from such debauchery.

'Light Side' is a stupid fucking notion; there is the balance, and there is the corruption. Nothing more, nothing less.

They let Mace Windu be one of the most important Jedi's ever and he uses the dark side

What is Powderkeg of Justice for $500, Alex?

Any Force User either dies a hero, or lives long enough to see himself become a villain.
The only exception to this rule are those who willingly abandon the way of the Force.

>one guy
An immensely powerful Sith, user.

No, he stuggled with the dark-side because he was a vain ('gotta have a super-special purple lightsaber to be different'), violent (literally uses the most savage form of lightsaber stances that most masters say can result in bad juju), and egotistical prick (yeah, none of your decisions can possibly blow up in your face, 'Judge-Jury-Executioner Windu').

Why the fuck can't we have Bindu?

The force is neither inheritly good or evil, it simply is. Jedi and Sith, Light and dark are two ways of interpreting its powers. It doesn't matter what powers you use it matters what philosophies you follow.

Dunno about nu-star wars though, but i'd be surpised if you considered them better.

Well, there was that period that Luke turned to the dark side, so...