/wmg/ Warmachine/Hordes General

If you want an ultra comp level game have fun. Prebuild Themes is what makes it different from 40k really.

I just liked the aesthetic. If it's ultra comp and more WAAC than hobbying, it's probably not for me, then.

It's just nearly dead, and keeps getting worse. So I wouldn't recommend getting in at this point.

They capitalized on AoS debacle and taken in good couple of disgruntled (formerly) Warhammer Fantasy players, but from Mark III onwards keep fucking up both those and their original player base.

I might pick up a starter box of one of the factions that looks neat, just in case Privateer Press manages to straighten up. Worst case scenario, I have some nice looking minis.

>Worst case scenario, I have some nice looking minis
If you're in for the minis there's Confrontation reboot just around the corner, it will likely fail as a game (again), but the minis look promising.

>What is Sorscha

You will not disrespect my girl, you degenerate!

We don't need a MAT - fighter

It's bled all the players it could and now on permanent life support. If it isn't dead locally by now you are fine.

How is Righteous Vengeance on a warlock useful?

>maybe "poor girl's Apparation", I guess.

Repositioning is always a good ability.

It's a solo, but
--->

It's not a warcaster, it's a solo.

Is that...seriously his name? That's like them making a gunmage called Colt McCoy.

I have always thought that Rackham's figures have been, and still are, cooler than anything that GW or PP puts out. I will see how that turns out, thanks user.

Being Americans, PP has a good idea about what's cringy for Americans. Not so much for Russians or anybody who knows the first thing about Russia.

Also Rocky IV.

I don't think it's dead, but like said it IS still going strong(ish) in my area, and enough in my region that there's still tournaments.

check to see if there's a meta in your area, and if not check to see if there's interest. you can probably develop your own group pretty quickly.

I stopped playing this game years ago, but the Manowars and the Greylords will still always be my favourite models with the greatest lore.

I've been enjoying games of Warmahordes at my LGS!

How does each faction play? I have a couple I'm leaning towards for aesthetic, but I'd like to know how they feel before making any decisions.

Honestly there's a LOT of overlap at this point, to the point where you may as well just pick an aesthetic you like.

Alright. Which of the following works best out of a Battlegroup starter:
>Convergence of Cyriss
>Protectorate of Menoth
>Legion of Everblight
>Circle Ouroboros

So, in terms of faction choice, your warcaster/warlock can often have as much effect on how a faction plays as the faction itself does. Just about every faction has a caster that can run a specific strategy, though of course the specifics and variation change that up.

A quick run down, however:

Cygnar: lots of very accurate shooting, super good at killing dudes. Not so good at killing armor.

Khador: Tough, hard hitting jacks backed up by solid infantry and very powerful warcasters.

Cryx: Super dependent on their warcasters to get anything done. Very infantry focused, they've got very cheap jacks, but they're often murdered before they can get anything done.

Menoth: Very defensive in style, lots of ways to prevent or muddle what your opponent does. Also have a decent focus on removing enemy abilities and spells. Infantry and Jacks often semi lack in the offense department, at least without buffs. Casters are often very fragile, but have tons of ways to be protected.

Convergence: Limited release faction. Very clockwork based, both in aesthetics and on the table. Any one thing in the faction is on paper not very good, but when added together can be insanely powerful

Mercs: The jack of all trades faction, they can do just about everything. Often have access to shitloads of random tools that can cover all sorts of situations. Extremely expensive to get into, however. Very solo focused.

Trollbloods: Big infantry focus, both literately and tactically. Their main draw is that 33% of the time their shit refuses to die. Warlocks are often more limited in their ability to project themselves, but they're often extremely powerful in the areas they can control.

I'm liking the sound of Menoth and Cyriss even more.

Skorne: Elite infantry, elite warbeasts, elite warlocks. Skorne hits hard, harder than anyone else. They've got a very attrition focused playstyle, with lists that often straight up refuse to die or get more powerful by doing so. Super good in melee, even their spellcasters and their ranged warlocks are dangerous in melee.

Circle: Fast, control based faction. Lots of ways to control the field, generally be creating forests or bypassing terrain. Defensively, their heavies have one of the best statlines in the game, and are adaptable. Can generally alpha pretty hard, but their attrition often leaves something to be desired. Their wold game is seeing a lot more play, however.

Legion: Glass cannon faction. Expensive shit that often dies very easy, but will murder whatever it gets too. Sort of in a rough spot right now, but getting a rework in the early new year.

Grymkin - Limited faction. Play very different from anything else in the game, even down to their core rules. They do a lot of very weird shit on the table. They're considered very fun, but have a pretty high learning curve. Regarded as a noobstomp faction because of this, both ways.

Minions - In a weird spot right now. People often love the way they look, but the subfactions often have some pretty glaring holes. Gators just got a massive update, no one's quite sure how it will pan out. Pigs are still fairly weird.

And that's it. Like I said, more specific strategies are generally capable of all the factions due to overlap, as noted.

However, super beware in your purchases. Some shit can play quite well on the table, but only with specific casters or in specific lists. You can't just throw together random models without major regard, because 99% of this game is about synergy between models.

Circle and Skorne also sound fun. Not really liking the sound of Legion.

Well, to cover CoC a bit more:

CoC generally have a jack focused gameplan, because their jacks are capable of being insanely efficient in terms of their actions once you figure them out. Almost everything they bring is often multi role, with most of their heavies packing both a gun and a melee weapon.

The weird part about CoC is that their warcasters affect their jacks very directly. How good a jack is in melee or at range is directly determined by the warcaster you bring. Every warcaster also provides an extra rule for their jacks, which really changes how they play. Every warcaster affects their army, but none of them do so much as CoC casters do.

Axis, for example, makes his warjacks very powerful in melee, with the ability to counter charge enemies that get close and a fairly elite MAT, but his ranged game sucks.

Aurora, meanwhile, has a fairly balanced statline, but makes her jacks super fast.

And Lucant is more leaned towards melee combat, but adds some powerful defensive tech to his lists.

Fuck it, let's just cover everyone.

Syntherion is the jack focused caster in a jack focused faction, so he's super, super good with jacks. He gives them the overall best offensive statline in the faction, and gives them healing abilities. On top of them, he makes them hit harder both at range and in melee.

Mother is more of a ranged caster, but in a weird way.

The new caster, Orion, is very powerful, but exceptionally difficult to play. He's good at both melee or ranged(but not both at the same time), has a lot of very powerful tools, and has an incredibly good feat, but all of these tools need a lot of forethought to make work.

I like the sound of Orion, Syntherion, Lucant, and Axis. The starter box comes with Syntherion, a Cypher, a Mitigator, and a Galvanizer.

>Skorne: Elite infantry
LOL, we don't even have weaponmaster infantry outside of a mini feat.
>elite warbeasts
None spring to mind. Please don't tell me you still think Molik Karn is in his Mk2 form.
>elite warlocks
Nibba no, one of our best offerings is a watered down Denny1.
>Skorne hits hard, harder than anyone else
The base PS on beasts is very mediocre. Beasts become very expensive when you factor in Handlers. Even then the Dire Troll Mauler makes our shit look like a joke.
>They've got a very attrition focused playstyle
Only Makeda2 could be described that way, and even then she has glaring weaknesses that cause auto-losses like anything that prevents healing.

Don't listen to this man about Skorne. Skorne is a fine faction, but nothing in the faction is "elite" in a vacuum, and if you want to have your stuff brought up to elite levels you're basically shoehorned into very specific things (Zaadesh2 + 3 Titan Sentries).

Alright. I think I'm probably going with Convergence anyways, looking at more of their models.

>LOL, we don't even have weaponmaster infantry outside of a mini feat.

Cetrati, Arcuarii, the Legends, Ferox on the jump, Swordsmen with mini-feat, PGMTs, Dakar at range, TyCom. Try again.

>None spring to mind. Please don't tell me you still think Molik Karn is in his Mk2 form.
Gladiator is still arguably one of the best warbeasts, point for point. Sentry is a lot better. DoA lets you run those sweet, sweet minion beasts, and those take Skorne buffs incredibly well.

>Nibba no, one of our best offerings is a watered down Denny1.
Zaal2, Makeda2, Zaadesh2, and Xerxis2 are all boasting some extremely powerful abilities. And I meant elite as in front line, which most casters can do quite well, especially with the spiny buff.

>The base PS on beasts is very mediocre. Beasts become very expensive when you factor in Handlers. Even then the Dire Troll Mauler makes our shit look like a joke.

DoA

>Only Makeda2 could be described that way, and even then she has glaring weaknesses that cause auto-losses like anything that prevents healing.

Zaal2's entire gameplan is based around losing 70% of his army and still killing you. Makeda1 does the attrition game same as Makeda2 does, though with the same weaknesses. Zaal1 does the same shit Zaal2 does, though not exact.

Attrition also tends to feature in Zaadesh2 lists, Xerxis1 lists, and Hexy's lists.

>Cetrati, Arcuarii, the Legends, Ferox on the jump, Swordsmen with mini-feat, PGMTs, Dakar at range, TyCom. Try again.
Cataphracts are unplayable, Legends are barely infantry considering you get 3 small character dude, Ferox get a boosted attack it's basically like charging, already mentioned the mini feat, PGMTs aren't infantry, neither is a Dakar, and a TyCom is a 2 model solo dressed up as infantry. I mean general use weaponmaster infantry that you can put on the table to scare heavies like Blighted Swordsmen or Dawnguard Sentinels.
>Skorne beasts are good because you can bring those sweet Minions beasts
LMAO
>Skorne beasts hit hard because you can bring those sweet Minions beasts
LMAO
>Gladiator is still arguably one of the best warbeasts, point for point
Tournament players don't even run Titans anymore outside of Zaadesh my dude. It's slow, not particularly difficult to kill, and can't reliably take out an enemy heavy. Rasheth, Makeda2, Makeda1, Zaadesh, Zaal2, and Xerxis2 don't even consider one. Hold on lemme check the 7 lists I have on Warroom for a Gladiator. Right my Jalaam list has one, but that list hasn't been played yet.

Are Clockwork Angels viable in any Convergence list?

The circle box is very strong against other battle boxes and has important models for a complete newbie.

The Menoth box is very easy to understand and play and is easy to expand on, but the caster and the models are very specific to one strategy that doesn't apply to the faction as a whole.

>when user tries to summarize your faction but you popped feat this turn

>Prebuild Themes is what makes it different from 40k really.
And, you know, actually requiring strategy.

Skorne is a top3 faction now, you fucking scrub.

its dead for all the players that matter - the fun players

the players remaining are all autistic competitive players who pitifully screech and throw shit whenever they hear anyone possibly considers playing a model for any other reason than muh competitive pairing

in the last month i've seen new players get crushed by these cock munchers dropping top level competitive cryx warlocks on them in 0pt battlebox games

seriously go elsewhere than this game unless the massively autistic community is somehow appealing to you

Sure. A unit or two make for good spot removal. Of course only in Clockwork Legions, because of fucking themes.

I mean, given the fluidity of that theme, and considering we only have two, you can run them if you REALLY want to in at least 50% of your lists.

they're tons of fun, probably some of my favorite models. Hard as fuck to assemble though.

damn man, your community sounds like absolute garbage. I'm sorry to hear that. like who even plays a non-battlebox list into a battlebox list? What the fuck?

Painting up some Blindwater gators today. Got a big backlog I want to get through before some of the new releases drop.

See, this really is a problem with wmg on tg. It's steered me off threads more than once- even when they aren't trying to be, anons are just the Worst at Games.

Also there really is a problem with actual board-camping threadcrappers with a hate-on for PP.

This is just the worst possible platform to discuss WMH on, though that is a somewhat recent trend. In fact it is becoming a terrible platform to discuss anything on. Nostalgia is all that keeps me here.

I never once said Skorne was doing badly in tournaments, asshole. But it's ridiculous to claim that anything in Skorne is "elite" the way Dawnguard Sentinels, Nyss Swordsmen, or Ironfang Pikemen could be considered "elite". Skorne is a synergy faction first and foremost.

I'm just here to drop pics, news and to show that we are still alive.

All to spite the guildball shitposters who can't sustain a thread for 3 posts so they have to ruin others.

so your complaint that an army that can synergy so hard it tops in tournaments is that... it does it so well that you don't NEED elite infantry?

that's a weird thing to have a problem with.

>Cataphracts are unplayable
You do realize the Centrati get play with Makeda2, Zaadesh, and Morg3, right?

And there's real merit to Arcuraii with Jalaam, given all that he provides them.

My problem is giving a new player the impression that models in Skorne are good in a vacuum the way some stuff in other factions is.

Nice PG-approved, regulation paint schemes you have there, user.

If Xerxis1 can't make Arcuarii playable (Pathfinder, Reposition 3), nobody can.

Is she not wearing any pants?

Who needs pants if you're immune to cold.

didn't the new edition kill this game?

I totally forget him. He's also got a perfect def buff for them as well.

That's what the trolls want you to believe. They jumped ship and need to justify their decision. If you want any good advice however, go anywhere but here. This is shitposting territory.

Defender's Ward is much better served on Ferox, Swordsmen, and even Cetrati. They're a bunch of RAT6 solos that do nothing but shoot really badly is the problem.

X1 can't make anything playable with his 10" control area. He's a strong contender for worst Skorne Warlock. I'd honestly rather play Xekaar.

Is there a problem with painting alligators to look like alligators? I’m confused.

It's a totally hot meme from a few years ago. Don't mind the guy, he's not mentally well.

Xerxis1's only problem is his control range; everything else about him is amazing. You know Trevor Christensen used him at the Las Vegas Open last year when he was the highest placing Skorne right? Comparing him to Xekaar is crazy, even if Xekaar is better than most people give him credit for now due to DoA.

Oh, I was talking about Cetarti when I said that.

You're joking, right?

Xerxis is one of those casters who can afford to lose half his army and still beat you.

To talk more generally, Jalaam gives them Pathfinder, possibly stealth, and gives them boosted ranged attack rolls, which is huge for him.

Makes the Incindrii good as well.

The major problem is that Masters doesn't let him take a Far Strike beast, which super hurts his personal output.

Is that before or after he loses hopelessly on Scenario?

Absolutely. The rest of his kit is solid. But he can't spread out and that really hurts him. Don't know much about Trevor, but my opinion of the American Skorne meta is not exactly high.

Fuck that, Jalaam wants a Gatorman Posse. Scavenger's Blessing doesn't state faction or even friendly for that matter, so a unit that can give itself concealment resulting in stealth is just dumb. The problem then being you really want a Task Master, but no theme allows Jalaam and a PGTM. It's one of the reasons why I think Jalaam doesn't want to be in a theme. Another reason is he makes Molik Karn unkillable under feat

Might just work in WoD/IWH.Take the Posse as your Minion unit, fill the rest with good stuff. Task Master would be great, but I'm not convinced she's mandatory.

>Puts 30 dudes in all the zones
>Somehow loses on scenario, I guess?

If you've ever played a PGTM with Brigands you'd know just how dumb this shit can get. Tough + Steady is tilting as fuck, not to mention the +2STR means way more on Posse who have 2 attacks. I mean, I won't tell you to play them without one, but man they benefit from one.

I think Jalaam has some merit in a lot of lists.

Exalted is super weird for him, but interesting. DEF13 immortals are super good on his feat turn, and they also activate the stealth. Plus, Void Spirits are DEF14 with Polty, which is fucking hilarious under his feat.

Masters of war is interesting for all the DEF13 infantry. You also get Legends, who are fucking DEF16.

IWH isn't bad with him either. Tons of insane movement abilities, you can do the posse route, and he can actually alpha hard enough to make the list worth it. If they make a mistake and give you a single Hyper Aggressive, you can often fire a warbeast across the table.

Plus, contesting Archidons. Or Contesting Razor Worms, which are also hilarious under his feat now.

I'm just saying, you could skip her as Posse are already tough. At least I wouldn't break theme for her. Molik is a different matter though.

Then 20 of those dudes don't benefit from X1's abilities. Might aswell play a different Warlock.

Even if some dudes aren't in control range, he can still Stir the Blood something 10" away. What, are MAT7 PS14 charging minifeat weaponmasters not good enough for you?

The only thing he needs his control for is his feat.

And he can put models out of his control to contest, then just move towards the models that need the feat next turn.

He also benefits super well from things like Archidons, and to a lesser extent, Razor Worms. Razor Worms are actually kind of hilarious with him now.

Does anyone have a scan of No Quarter Prime 2? I didn't see one in the textuploader document.

Not that specific color green, no.
But try a neon green or a shade of green leaning too closely to blue... that's a tourney ban.

Wait, there are tournament rules on how you paint them?

No

No, it's a bad meme. There are conversion rules which basically just enforce WYSIWYG - a Warjack with a fist and a hammer can't have a fist an an axe - but that's all, and they only apply to tournaments anyway.

I was a little worried with that comment. Also, is there anything important I should pick up alongside the starter box for Convergence?

dice (5d6 is plenty. with one being a different colour), measuring tape, some glue.

Alright. So stuff I already have from Warhammer. I don't need any other models to start playing?

not really, the starter is fine to learn how to play with. You'll probably want a Collary and another caster sooner rather than later, and further on down the line some Servitors and a Transfinite Emergence Projector.

Corollary looks nice, and I'm considering picking up Orion or Axis.

>Also, is there anything important I should pick up alongside the starter box for Convergence?

Not CoC related, but I'd look into getting a second Warcaster to play around with. Sometimes the first one you pick - or the one that comes in the starter box - just doesn't click and it's easy to get discouraged. Having a second one to play around and try different things with can be a good way to avoid that.

Not the guy you're taking to, but a hobby knife with the sharpest blades you can lay your hands on, the sculpting putty of your choice, and some really good beer. I dabbled with wmh models for years and the convergence release got me excited enough to buy in only to find that the starter box was one of my all time most frustrating modeling experiences. Tons of flash, flash in weird places, bizarre and seemingly nonsensical mold cuts and attendant seam lines and more sink spots than the Bermuda triangle, and all in that gross "sprueless plastic" that's a pain to work with. I've owned other PP plastic kits that weren't nearly as bad but the convergence starter was a fucking nightmare.

Alright. With the warjacks in the starter box, between Axis and Orion, which caster do you think would be a better pick?

Sounds like my experience with DEldar in 40K. Is it similar, or even worse?

>which caster do you think would be a better pick?
I honestly couldn't tell you, I've never played as or against CoC sadly. The mecha-angel girl looks pretty cool though, but I think she's mostly based around infantry so won't synergise too well with the 'Jacks you get in the starter box.

>Is it similar, or even worse?
Less fragile than the Dark Eldar models, but the material is worse. Most of PP's 'plastic' kits are made from a weird plastic/resin hybrid that is a real nightmare to work with. It doesn't file easily and trying to shave mould lines off leaves lots of little twirly bits clinging everywhere.

Aurora looks like she could be fun once I've got some more models. Axis gives all Warjacks in his battlegroup Countercharge, his melee attack can push enemies up to 1" with a free movement up to 1" towards that enemy afterwards, and can spend focus points for two additional attacks each. Each time Orion activates, I give him either +2 MAT or +2 RAT until the next activation (I'm guessing those are accuracy stats_. Warjacks in Orion's battlegroup get Reposition 3". Orion's gun allows me to, on hit, take each model within 2" of the hit model and move them each up to 2" directly towards or directly away from said model, and his melee weapon has knockdown.

What starter are you using?

If it's the Syntherion box, Orion does more with the jacks provided.

Axis doesn't really like any of the jacks with guns, though he can make use of the Cipher and the Diffuser. He's more fond of the two melee only jacks, more specifically the Inverter.

So, Axis's melee abilities very rarely come up. If he's in combat, you're either desperate or basically just clowning on your opponent. Despite his looks, his excels at battlefield control.

Orion is an incredibly complicated caster. So much of his kit does incredibly wonky things. He looks fun as fuck, and his toolkit looks incredibly deep, but be aware that some of the shit he does is super, super wonky.