/swg/ Big Guy edition

R1 > TLJ > TFA for me. TFA might have been more together as a movie but it was such a rehash and a lazy approach. R1 at least acknowledges the parts of itself that were an OT tribute and TLJ genuinely tries to be its own thing and sever ties, even if it's not very good. But TFA is the most profoundly unambitious of the three and as none of them are really all that great, I take away a lot of points for lack of ambition.

This.

I prefer the rehash to something that's new, but offensively bad.

Sup /Swg/? I've been in voluntary exile for a little while since TLJ came out and I finally saw it today. I gotta say folks that I quite liked it.
Yeah it kept me guessing even with the internet doing its best to spoil it for me, definitely my favourite Disney Star Wars.

I've not seen any of these disney film because it's not what i want but TFA is best simply for the memes

What about it did you like?

I considered adding a none of the above option but I'd rather we vote for something this time around rather than talk about how disappointed we are with everything.

I actually really liked Rogue One, a lot. There are things that can be criticized about it but I appreciate everything the movie did to expand and do justice to the universe. It is the first movie that I consider to be a real departure from the established formula in the movies (because the tone and style is significantly different, I'm not going to accept this argument from RLM that the movie is a rehash because it has TIE fighters and walkers in it). It expands the universe by showing us more sides of the Rebellion, the Empire to a lesser extent, and the force. It does justice to the death star, Vader, the struggle of the Rebel Alliance and has a strong sense of place of how its story fits into the star wars galaxy.

As a serious question, how much knowledge of the Star Wars universe do I need to adequately run a good Star Wars roleplaying game campaign? I love the original trilogy and I’m at least familiar enough with the other movies in the franchise to present the information from them faithfully, but that’s about where my engagement with the franchise ends. I’ve played KOTOR, but beyond that I’ve never seen the two television series or read any of the books in the supplementary lore (“Legends” or new canon)

I occasionally get ideas for Edge of the Empire or Age of Rebellion games, but I also know that the kind of person who would probably know a lot more about the setting than I do. I have this fear whenever I consider running one of the FFG Star Wars products that the campaign would inevitably devolve into a lot of the players going “that’s not how Mandalorians do things, you idiot. Chiss society doesn’t work like that, either, you absolute fool.”

Fair enough. I wasn't offended by TLJ on a personal level and I can understand why someone would have a desire to separate from the OT, because TFA was literally the OT again and that's a prison.

*that the kind of person that would be interested in playing would probably know a lot more

>Too bad, none of this shit is canon anymore

I've got to disagree.

I personally found Rogue One to be both a rehash AND offensively bad. I'd easily call it the worst of the new films, and I don't find RLM's criticism of it particularly wrong.

I do think they give too much hate to the prequels, and honestly I'd rather watch Jar Jar step in animal dung 750,000 times before I'd watch one scene of K2SO making a Guardians-style one liner again.

I just want a Clone Wars tabletop wargame. Is that so much to ask?

Since /swg/ is now somehow the least autistic Star Wars board, what are your honest, non-meme opinions of TLJ?

Personally, I though is was alright. It lagged on a little too much and had a few too many unnecessary twists, but was commendably ambitious and mostly stuck to the SW spirit. Plus, Driver and Hamill stole the whole show.

Also, TIE Silencer is my new shipfu.

Nah, people did that with Phantom Menace, but there was only so long they could be in denial before coming to terms with how shit it really was. TLJ is going to be forgettable at best or PM 2.0 at worst. Only time with tell.

Right but R1 is also set at their time. And now with TFA and TLJ what you have is the same plot but transposed to a point in time when, genuinely, we all should have moved pass this. But we can't give up the nostalgiabux so let's have Han back and Luke back and dial back their character development and kill them, among the trappings of a plot we've already been through.

Rogue One worked because it was already in the time period of that plot. It had shallow characters but it got a lot of things right - giving context and human cost to a lot of what we see (I mean R1's planet destruction scene is 10000x better than the one in TFA, because we see the planet and people beforehand and our protagonists are shown to have connections and to want to save the people there). It looked great even if it was a bit shaky on plot and characters. And it gave a bit of nuance to the Rebellion and Empire in its own way.

So like, I don't prefer R1 because it hit all the Star Wars hallmarks. I like that it handled them well within its own context and added a little bit extra. I don't think for a new SW movie you need to do justice to the death star, Vader and the struggle of the Rebel Alliance and the current timeline SW movies are in a weird place where on a meta level Disney wants them to do that but the writers and directors are struggling with actually making it work with a *new* story.

It actually would have been better to skip behind or ahead 1000 years and show us a new story then, but obviously that has a lot less draw to people who grew up with the OT or its re-release.

REEEEEEYYYYYYY

There's a scene where they bring the toys out in every single Star Wars movie, I thought that was a really weak criticism.

I liked Kylo and Ray, I felt their scenes really helped both characters Kylo already being the best new character and Ray needing the help. Getting to see Rays desperation and weakness improved a character I hadn't really clicked with last time. I liked that the crazy all or nothing plan didn't work. I liked what we got to see of Poe and how his overconfident flyboy attitude really backfired where cooler heads were needed.

I loved that we killed Snoke, great decision no one gave a shit about him anyway. The fight in the throne room is very nicely done and those guards looked great.

The costume design in the casino really tickled me. The Starfortress is an A+ ship design.

What rank would the CO of a Rebel squadron base roughly the size of pic related be? What would be his XO's rank?

>I liked what we got to see of Poe and how his overconfident flyboy attitude really backfired where cooler heads were needed.
Did you really like Admiral "Ummm no sweetie" Holdo?

>nuance to the Rebellion and the Empire

You mean turning one into a saintly built on hope whiteknight crew and the other into a horrifically evil yet hyper incompetent and immature evilgroup?

You’re not supposed to like Holdo until she is on a suicide mission sinking the last of the rebel fleet into sinking the First Order flagship.

It’s like people have never watched a movie before sometimes.

>saintly
I see you weren't paying attention to Cassian at the start of the movie.

In Rogue One? Did we watch the same movie? Rogue One gives you villainous actions in the hands of its Rebel protagonists and shows you the 'just doing my job' functionaries of the Empire as well as how 'just doing my job' can be a function of great evil, and how the Empire can bring people of vision to it even if they might be good people.

So your sentence is 100% not what I took from Rogue One.

Yes because prequels = marketing poison now apperently

I mean I didn't hate her, it was a little contrived that we couldn't just tell him the plan and "Godspeed" took me out of the movie a bit. I don't think I was supposed to like her, she was just a device to serve Poe's progression to me.

I also liked how the film was willing to be ambitious and experimental (especially after Episode 4 v.2). The butchering of Luke as a character combined with the million and one questionable plot points (Super Leia, hyperspace missile, Holdo in general, etc.) really keeps it down, though. Still better than I thought it was going to be.

it's terrible and i wish we could abort the whole disney franchise. apologize to Lucas right now!

The trouble is that little of it is dwelt upon, and brushed away as fast as it was brought in

>Yes it happens but I have a very short attention span

Base commander would be at least Major. XO would be at least a Captain.

There are also just straight up actual Rebellion terrorists in that movie. Sol's crew and the people he's allied with are 100% OK these guys fight the Empire but they are not good guys and this planet would not be better with them in charge.

I think it's dwelt upon more than in any other SW movie I can think of, including the OT and prequels. Both of the main characters are pretty shady: one murders a compatriot to evade capture right at the start. Tons of the ancillary shit you see is not necessarily black and white: Sol, Galen Erso's whole deal. Bodhi Rook.

I can't think of another SW movie that gives that kind of framing to the Rebellion and the Empire. Are you just annoyed that ultimately the Emprie are the bad guys? Because in Star Wars the Empire ARE the bad guys dude.

>two guys do things the rebellion would be realistically doing all the time
>film immediately lets you know they're outcasts and people like mon mothma are so pure of heart and good that they cry when they hear war is going on and talk about how hopeful and nice the rebellion is
>film also shows you imperials doing their jobs
>immediately reminds you they're all horrific and evil bastards while they run around dying incompetently as the main director tenses his neck muscles and screams and the big boss has a rivalry with him even though the director's like a cashier and the big boss is like a governor but it's fine because they're evil #notmyempire #safetypin

yeah, actually. personally dont know anyone interested in the system. i figure ill either do a party of freelance people or criminal-aligned working for whoever pays them or empire/republic party with actual missions and more. the former lends more towards eote with more freedom and more familiar OT-esque, social outcast characters; latter more towards AoR with a more "impactful" narrative and traditional, raised in X superpower characters. just depends on what people think is cool

What happend to the Trade Federation when the Empire took over? We know that Nute Gunray was considered a "rogue" asset of the Trade Federation, seeing as they still go a seat in the senate.

You seem like a fragile little bitch, m8.

I really hate empireshits.

>the rebellion would be realistically doing all the time
>#safetypin
Oh it's you.

The rebels in R1 have been cowardly, and distrusting, and ruthless. It presented the rebellion as a nuanced group with many different sides without falling into "the Rebels are actually evil".

Krennic is the closest we've gotten to having a normal Imperial officer as a big bad. He's evil, but not exaggerated evil, and to a big extent captures the mundanity of the commanders of the Imperial war machine.

The first half felt like an extended toy commercial, while the second half actually felt like a (bad) movie.
I think my one main gripe about the movie is that they tried to do too many things. Like time/fuel is a factor but Finn and fat Asian girl have time to go to a rich casino, find a code breaker and come back to sneak into the empire ship? There's no dramatic tension at all. It's just boxes being checked and stuff happening and I (the audience) couldn't care less

He also gets an amazing death scene.

Why are you giving the Mouse that much money?

I really loved the return to a more mystical/supernatural force where we aren't 100% sure what all the rules are and things run more on symbolism/importance/fate. I also like what they did with Luke.

Of course the Canto Bight stuff went on too long and I think the whole bit about mistreating animals was a bit too on the nose. Showing that Canto Bight had a less wealthy underclass (including orphans) and that these people were being exploited -like in Rose's story- and planting the spark of some sort of mini-rebellion among them would have worked better.

Overall, I liked it though. It did subvert my expectations, but in enjoyable ways. If you enjoyed KOTOR2, I can't see how you wouldn't really like TLJ.

>opening crawl from one film is de jure truth for entire franchise

Hi.

Krennic is an absolute joke of a character, a messily-written and lazy villain played by a great actor in a horrible role.

I mean, you sound like the type who would get triggered seeing the Rebels shown as bad guys.

Anyone with a Forged in Battle copy that isn't missing pages, a non-fucked full-paged version of Disciples of Harmony and a not-completely-shit version of No Disintegrations?

Stuff this bad really shouldn't make it into the troves, and if they do, they should be clearly marked as unfinished. Filing them like they're complete quality scans makes people that could potentially contribute think that they don't need to, because someone else already has.

Sheev had all of their assets nationalized once the war was over. They were essentially a puppet government until they got dissolved with the rest of the Senate around Yavin.

>I mean, you sound like the type who would get triggered seeing the Rebels shown as bad guys.
Why? I literally said that I enjoyed seem the Rebels portrayed in a more nuanced way and not all being clean-cut in that movie.

You sound like you want the Empire to be shown as unliteral GOOD guys, which is at best a very foolish thing to hope for from a SW movie.

>Guys, what if
>What if evil Empire is actually GOOD
I bet you're the kind of a player who plays "good" necromancers in DnD just because you're a contrarian

I still think there's a decent (though still "not muh") movie in The Last Jedi, if someone were to take a massive hacksaw to it and cut like an hour or so (maybe more?) From the stupid thing

Have Finn go do his own thing and say the next movie will be about that or we'll catch up with him next movie and you take out an almost totally redundant plot and maybe have some room to develop some good ones or even add some good shit in.

The problem is the Rebels are shown a little bit of dark/evil morality, but not enough. In the OT both the Empire and Rebellion are portrayed pretty neutrally. It's the main heroes that are good and main villains that are evil. The Rebel crewmen we're shown in Ep VI aren't good guys, they're just military dudes, and the Imperial admirals we're shown in Ep V aren't bad guys, they're just military dudes.

It's not until RO that the Rebels start spouting off all this "muh hope" bullshit and all of the Imperials start acting like sadistic and whiny manchildren that the morality is smashed apart.

Moral relativism.

From my memory I've only seen reverse character development pulled off well one time. The story dedicated an entire sequel movie to a character study of one person whose character arc concluded with satisfaction in the previous entry. Every part of the movie was created with the intention of examining different tendencies and flaws in that character, all to justify the one crazy thing they do at the end of the movie that sets themselves and everyone else back. And even then some fans hate the movie, even though they're generally in the minority.

The problem with Luke in 8 as others have already said, is that he's not just making any mistake. He's making a mistake that undoes the most important aspect of his character/personality and the culmination of his storyline in the OT, which is that when nobody else thought Vader could be brought back from the dark side he was the one person who still believed. The justification for Luke doing what he did in the movie is:

1) It's been a long time since then
2) He's a human being and made a mistake

This isn't an impossible thing to imagine happening, but to me the reasons given here are just not enough to justify what they did. You can't write a character to do the opposite and be the opposite of who they are, who people have dedicated 3 movies and a complete hero's journey to creating and watching them grow, and have your explanation for what happened be "they made a mistake". That's not good enough.

8 > R1 > 7

>Have Finn go do his own thing and say the next movie will be about that or we'll catch up with him next movie and you take out an almost totally redundant plot and maybe have some room to develop some good ones or even add some good shit in.

I really wish Finn and Poe had done stuff together. I loved them in TFA. I actually like Rose and find her little crush on Finn pretty cute, but I just wanted more Finn and Poe shenanigans with Poe coming up with some crazy plan and Finn going along all scared at first, but then totally getting into it.

alright but WHY did we decide to open this thread with movies arguing

why couldn't we talk about armada or legion instead

>In the OT both the Empire and Rebellion are portrayed pretty neutrally
Okay dude do you really think *I* can think you're arguing in good faith after this sentence?

Star Wars I was literally retitled "A New Hope" on re-release and I mean, pic related.

because the Nebulon-C is trash

Going by the decline of TLJ and the upcoming disaster that is Solo, I'd expect some more prequel products to pop up in the coming years as people get more and more disillusioned with new Star Wars.

>little of it is dwelt upon
On the one hand, i do agree it ought to have been. but on the other, it also stands to reason that the members of the Rebellion are indeed little more than terrorists (to everyone else) to the point where this desperation and assholery becomes so commonplace that to the characters themselves it becomes a non-issue. Which then translates to the audience as something that's not being dwelt upon.

In other words, once you've been bro-ing about with ISIS, Al-Qaeda, or those Anti-Franco guerillas long enough, Little Jane watching her parents die to a carbomb becomes the most important day of her life.
But for you it's Tuesday.

Gets to upgrade his gear for 'free', which is one immediately nice thing.

I'm not sure you watched the same movies as i did. The Empire is explicitly bad and the rebels are explicitly good. The scroll says so and the actions of each reflect it. Empire builds planet destroyer, kills family for droids, blows up planet, subjugates free people and teddy bears, chokes to death people who fail even once, breakes up elected body in favor of dictatorship, it's all pretty damning. In contrast is the rebels who are fighting for freedom and also against bad Empire which is enough to make them good.

I found it to be a badly-paced piece of garbage that basically ends where it started. It felt like a Marvel movie, right down to the constant quipping.

Episode 8 released a week ago. Last year after /swg/ shut down R1 discussion I tried going to /tv/ to talk about it. Now I don't know about the rest of you but I'm not going through that shit again.

>It's not until RO that the Rebels start spouting off all this "muh hope" bullshit and all of the Imperials start acting like sadistic and whiny manchildren that the morality is smashed apart.

In the first film, we see Vader force choke an Imperial officer who is a complete and utter ass that talks down to him. Also, they disolve the senate and the plan is to use fear of the Death Star to keep people in line. They also slaughter a bunch of Jawas and Uncle Owen/Aunt Beru.

And even in the first film, we see the Rebellion still uses "May the Force be with you," the mantra of the Jedi, the former guardians of peace and justice for a thousand generations.

So yeah, even in the first film, the Empire is painted as pretty bad and the Rebellion is good (or better). Even when you take out the personal actions Vader, Luke, and Leia out of it.

B-b-b-but... Muh Pellaeon...

>we see Vader force choke an Imperial officer who is a complete and utter ass that talks down to him
BTW on rewatch this dude looks stoned as fuck.

I liked it overall, and it had more emotion and ambition than TFA or Rogue One. First of the Disney films that hasn't felt like a corporate product, imo.

It felt kinda like the prequels? Loads of plot holes, character inconsistencies, and awful pacing. But whereas the prequels had wooden acting with fun world-building, TLJ had wooden world-building with good acting.

>The Empire is explicitly bad and the rebels are explicitly good

In your opinion.

>The scroll says so

Irrelevant

>Empire builds planet destroyer

Irrelevant. It's a weapon of war.

>kills family for droids

And refusing to give up the location of wanted fugitives AND hiding Obi-Wan's location AND having Rebel ties themselves (as per EU).

>blows up planet

That was a leading planet of the Rebellion. Talk shit, get hit.

>subjugates free people and teddy bears

Never bothered the Ewoks till the Rebels came and subjugated people who fucked with them first. Talk shit, get hit.

>chokes people

Only one person does that and no one in the Empire likes him and Palpatine told him to cool it (as per EU).

>breaks up elected body in favor of dictatorship

Depends on how you view the merits of democratic vs. autocratic governments, which is a debate for neither here nor there.

>pretty damning

In your opinion

>fighting for freedom

So do terrorists and historical insurgencies. Irrelevant in regards to morality.

>bad Empire

In your opinion.

>make them good

Subjectively.

What are the best specs in Force and Destiny?

mate

They have an explicit state doctrine of rule through terror and the stripping of the rights of the populace.

Was it autism?

we're not only doing sequels arguing but now we've got this asshole?

fuck it, I'm out, maybe the thread will be salvageable in a few hours

>force choke an imperial officer

To make a point.

>dissolve the senate

Irrelvant, and only happened years after the Rebellion was formed and told Palpatine explicitly he was going to be deposed and either imprisoned or executed.

>fear of the Death Star

Massive retaliation doctrine.

>Jawas

Attacked the Sandtroopers first as per EU.

>Uncle/Aunt

Rebel sympathizers who got violent and were harboring multiple high-value fugitives, as per EU.

>former guardians of peace and justice

Subjectively and in their own minds. KOTOR and the PT shows many of them as arrogant self-righteous douches. Not saying the Sith are any better though, so please don't misunderstand that.

Did you first see Star Wars as a kid or as an adult user?

...

She was wet

Is someone actually arguing that the Episode 4 Empire and Rebels are both morally grey AND that the Rogue One Empire is cartoon evil while the Rebels are pure white, all at the same time? I literally cannot believe I am seeing this.

Convincing Vader to come to the light side was not the entirety of Luke's arc. By the end of the first movie, he had never so much as spoken to Vader- and just happened to be in the same room for about 2 minutes before running away. He didn't even know Vader was his father until the SECOND movie. He didn't even mention trying to redeem him until the third.

This is like saying the arc of Leia was how she grappled with the discovery that Luke was her brother.

And it should be noted that Luke was tempted to kill the Emporer and then to kill Vader and was about to do both when he stopped himself. Just like he was about to kill Ben, before he stopped himself, like last time.

>i disagree therefore he's wrong

>rule through terror

Rule through knowledge that rebellion will bring the hammer down on you, which is what literally any major government in history has done. George Washington's first big presidential action was violently putting down a bunch of Continental Army veterans whom he lied to about their rewards for fighting in the Revolution, and when they protested it, he personally led the troops in.

>stripping the rights of the populace

Mostly aliens. Humans and most Near-Humans were fine. Not the best, but not everyone would find it totally evil. Remember that as per the EU the Republic Senate was basically the opposite, giving heavy favor to alien races who banded together in their distrust of Humans to keep them in check, as Humans/Near-Humans were the most numerous species in the galaxy.

>as per EU a bunch of stuff that was obviously implied was rewritten so some autist could argue in bad faith on a Kazakhstani Dog Washing Community Notepad
Christ I'm so glad it's dead.

>tonal inconsistency
>meandering storyline full of unnecessary scenes
>unlikable characters
>plot holes as an individual movie (why can't they call in another ship to head them off)
>creates huge problems within the franchise (why are RKVs not used all the time)
>characters who are built up to be bad asses don't actually do anything cool
I wasn't a fan.

Probably just because I'm drunk but this is extremely funny to me right now. I can just start at the top and start laughing all over again.

I like to imagine this user works in middle management for like, a paperclip shipping company and he tries to apply Imperial lessons to his management style.

>racism is okay when the empire does it

Kid.

You're free to make an argument to prove me incorrect. Actually, it's not even really needed. I'm not pretending to be objectively correct myself, I'm just disputing you acting like you're objectively correct.

Who's evil and good between the Emps and Rebs is subjective opinion based on your own beliefs, views, and thoughts on morality. None of us are right nor wrong.

>I like to imagine this user works in middle management for like, a paperclip shipping company and he tries to apply Imperial lessons to his management style
Now this is funny to me too.

Good for you. Explanations of events like the Jawas attacking first make more sense and are more complex than just "stormtroopers killed them cuz they're evil"

Crude way to put it but I get that. I just didn't expect such a visceral reaction.