Warrior Cultures are dumb

Are you retarded?

It's a pity a lot of writers forget this when making Prussia expies.

Prussia (and later Imperial Germany's) might was from industry and organization, not battlefield skill.

Are you retarded?
Spartans were a leisure class, like all Greeks.

That's what slaves are for. While you and your bros go lifting the slave takes care of the shitty tasks in life.

Ahh, another one of these threads made by a contrarian who wants to "rebuke tropes" and feel intellectually superior.

There are cultures where everyone can be a warrior. The Germanics and Celts, for instance, were a warrior culture, where every man fought and the practise and art of war was highly regarded, single combat solved a lot of issues, etc.

However when we refer to these people as "warriors", it doesn't mean that they sat around doing nothing until a war came along(which is what many of you contrians seem to believe these guys were).

They were normal people, herdsmen, hunters, farmers, sheperds, etc, who when the time was right went to war.

The Germanic Tribes engaged in a ritualistic form of warfare against each other, where on a sunny day all the men of each tribes would go to a flat open area and start fighting. This form of warfare was designed to show bravery and courage, which is why many people went naked. It would have mostly involved a lot of arrows being shot and javelins being thrown, and a small bit of hand to hand combat. This footage of ritualistic warfare from Papua New Guinea is mostly realistic, just imagine those guys having swords and metal weapons and them being white.

youtube.com/watch?v=0BzqwOBneC4

The Germans and Celts were incredibly good at single combat, but due to their form of warfare, they got destroyed by the Romans, because the Romans just used group warfare against individualistic Tribal warriors.

I'll also add that the Germans and Celts spent more time hunting, herding and gathering than they spent tending fields, so they had a lot more free time to practise their fighting skills.

/thread

That's entirely unlike the warrior culture trope in fiction though.

In star Trek (like pic related) the klingons have a caste system, so the warriors can spend all their time fighting.

And in other forms of fiction, a warrior Tribal race is common.

Ironically, TOS had the most mature and interesting representation of Klingon (and arguably romulans as well). The society was far more believable and the whole warrior thing was a historical footnote of a clandestine and antagonistic society.

TNG improved the makeup but to change the Klingons from ussr metaphors, just used the warrior bit to rewrite their culture. However tng at least added some depth through worf by showing that Klingon culture isnt so honorable and pure as outsiders (including worf) believe. Then DS9 came along and totally ruined them by turning them into essentially bumbling incompetent savages that have literally no other purpose in life but to charge headfirst at enemies

Am I the only one that finds this incredibly interesting? Really makes me wonder how many cultures started with this kind of warfare and just evolved into the more industrialized (for lack of a better term) form of warfare.

Good shit.

Cattle raiding was also extremely common in places like Ireland,and there are cases of Tribes who have burnt down and completely slaughtered other tribes, but that kind of thing is rare. Ritualistic warfare is most common however, and deaths weren't too common.

Of course, when you're in a culture that belives warriors will go to the afterlife or be reborn, it doesn't really matter if you die.

The fighting of Tribes in papua new guinea has now involved homemade guns and even automatic rifles being used, it's pretty interesting old warriors using bows up against young guys using m16's. The warfare is a lot more brutal now than it was 40 years ago.

youtube.com/watch?v=hPM-gJA62Rs

>all Greeks

So the non Spartan Greek slaves they ruled were not Greek now? What about all the Greek merchants, farmers and tradesmen in other city states? Not all Greeks sat around in togas debating philosophy all day.

And they had 'leisure' so they could focus on the practice of warfare to an extent considered exceptional by other Greeks.

>And in other forms of fiction, a warrior Tribal race is common.
A warrior tribal race with the nuance you described isn't really. Most remove the "not a warrior all the time" part

The goal of citizens was to be wealthy enough so they would not need to do manual labour, of course they still did things like managing their estates, the society and defending it in times of war. But it was mostly just relaxation.

The under class Helots (slaves) that worked for the Spartans were not considered citizens and yet did all of the work for them.

No Greek states had the concept of a professional army.

>Not having a warrior culture where logistics and support are just as much vaunted for supporting the warrior as much as the warrior is for fighting

How gay.

But that is an unusual situation. In most city states the majority of the citizens were not wealthy landowners. And the Helots were still Greeks.

And for your original point, all men who were considered Spartans were expected to be warriors and their culture was geared around producing effective warrior-citizens. That is by definition a warrior culture.

This. Why the fuck don't writers make warrior cultures smart enough to under stand this. Warriors are of the highest order but farmers and smiths should be close seconds for the simple fact their trades are crucial to the warrior's glory.

Citizenship is Sparta had literally everything to do with wealth, for example only the upper class were considered citizens and held the title Spartiates; they had among the largest population in Greece with a citizen population of about 4000 near it's peak. Helots were not considered citizens but rather the personal property of an individual citizen.

They weren't a warrior class because there was no specific focus of martial abilities and they were by no means professional or even the best Greeks in warfare. For example the Agoge which is touted as a special Spartan training program meant to teach children from birth to be super soldiers was really nothing of the sort. It was supposed to teach young boys how to be effective citizens and did not involve weapons training. Similar things existed across the Greek world.

Man fuck guns. Their old way may have looked 'primitive' but hell they got to run around screaming their heads off throw some sharp sticks, and shoot arrows at random dudes to blow off steam and at the end of the day MAYBE one guy dies.

Tell me the world wouldn't be better if wars were still like that.

It wouldn't.

Eh I'll admit your not wrong but I still hold that their old way was better than the shit they do now.

*you're

Fuck phone posting.

Slaves.
But yes, most warrior cultures in fantasy are retarded

Citizen in Sparta had everything to do with blood relations, not wealth. In fact the early laws of Sparta banned having coinage, instead forcing them to use iron blocks. In order to be a Spartiate you had to have both parents be full blooded Spartans and you had to pass the agoge. If you failed that you were not a Spartiate but considered a Periokoi, which were free, but not considered actual citizens. So, you have Spartiates - Periokoi - Helots. All based on blood relations. Hell, Helots were often tied to the land so much that they were often sold and bought as part of the property, or given by the state when such land was given. There is no way for a Periokoi or Helot to "advance," regardless of their wealth. It wasn't until the later years that Helots were used in combat and Periokoi were routinely used as auxiliary units and considered unfit to serve the front line.

>did not involve weapons training
What? The agoge most certainly involved weapons training. Not only that, but upon completion of the agoge one joined a barracks, where you were expected to train with your peers till around the age of twenty-five. The Krypteia also existed, which was a Spartan military unit that routinely hunted down and antagonized Helots. Think of them like a secret police.

You still haven't explained why you think all Greeks were part of the leisure class.

>Most
Citations, nigger. Get these vague generalizations outta my face.

Those generic warrior cultures only really bother me in sci-fi. How the klingons ever became space-faring is beyond me.

>old way is better
Dude ritualistic war only happens between two tribes of the same people. You and the town in the next valley over have essentially a really violent football game over who gets to hunt in the hilltop forest.
When it came time to actually fight, they just genocided each other. You went in, killed every male, raped every female, then killed every female over like 16. No treaties, no negotiations.

Savages are savage, turns out.

Warrior culture =/= A culture that is only composed of warriors. Also you're not some deep genius for discovering that a functional society requires various labourers.

>A culture that is only composed of warriors is dumb. Someone needs to grow the food, cook the food, move the food from the farms to the boot camps, build the cart which delivers the food, harvests the timber for the cart, makes the nails for the cart, mines the ore for the nails, build the roads and all that. Go into an industrial/post industrial and you have the demands of maintaining an industrial rather than a rural economy.

It's called a Caste System.

...

>That video
That's the shit right there.
It's funny, you watch a video of a riot and it's exactly the same. Same darting forward and then running back. Same singing, same taunting.
Nothing's changed, really.

Aren’t you supposed to be banished somewhere Magnus?

This is some shit bait

They stole the technology from the space-faring race that previously enslaved them. Literally all the Klingon core worlds are former colonies that they zerg-rushed after they stole all the spaceships docked on their homeworld during the rebellion.
Klingons are exhibit A why the prime directive isn't as stupid as it first seems.

Klingons just treat everything as a battlefield. The klingon lawyer wishes to honorably crush his opponent in the court of law just as the klingon targ herder wishes to grow targs large enough to crush those assholes as the country fair.

Women and cowards exist.

>Thinking Warrior cultures are nothing but warriors

t. Thebes

Little brainlet doesnt know how spartan society actually worked

Exactly this.

Ah, that's fair I guess. Like how the Krogan in Mass Effect were uplifted, otherwise they'd have never gotten close to becoming space faring. Kinda supported the idea of the Prime Directive too, didn't it. I wanted to "save" the Krogan by curing the genophage, I really did, but it would have been an incredibly irresponsible thing to do. I can't quite remember if BioWare actually gave you a good reason to consider not doing it, whilst pushing the player towards thinking the cure was the most ethical thing for everyone.

Remind that for the longest time Feudal Japan was an army with a country attached to it rather than the other way around.

>grow the food
Replicator
>cook the food
Replicator
>move the food from the farms to the boot camps
Teleporter
>build the cart which delivers the food
Replicator
>harvests the timber for the cart
Drones, or Teleporters
>makes the nails for the cart
Replicator
>Mining
Drones
>Build roads
Teleporters and Starships.

Guess we can have a warrior culture now.

>Warriors
Drones

Why even have warriors when you can just make stuff to do it for you

>A culture that is only composed of warriors is dumb. Someone needs to grow the food, cook the food, move the food from the farms to the boot camps, build the cart which delivers the food, harvests the timber for the cart, makes the nails for the cart, mines the ore for the nails, build the roads and all that. Go into an industrial/post industrial and you have the demands of maintaining an industrial rather than a rural economy.

Warriors can multi task.

the problem is that we don't really see klingon holding a secondary job during the "off" season. They seems to be an entire race of samurai class during the edo period without the peasant and merchant/artisan supporting the actual economy.

and ironically the idea of "everyone will fight" is closer to the starfleet ideal. Everyone in starfleet are scientist but will have fighting as their secondary job.

Spartan society was based around their perception that they were foreign invaders in their own lands. Every day of their lives they were paraboid that the locals (slaves) would rise up and overthrow them. Sparta didn't have the best warriors it is true, but you can't argue that they weren't a warrior culture.

My faggots still beat your faggots.

Because being a warrior is fun and cool, duh. Same reason the federation still sends ships full of people to explore planets, rather than just probes.

those things are called women and slaves in a warrior sociaty.

The very first iteration of a klingon in TOS is a slimy, cowardly merchant that tries to undermine the Enterprise with fuzzy hermaphrodites

>What it "Mandatory service until X-age?"
>What is Slavery?
>What are outliers?
>What are non-warrior plebian classes?
>how do military supply work?

Seriously.
You planted bait, I'm fully aware.
But that bait was too delicious.

Based user. Cattle raiding was legit

This.

explain?

Except that's completely false. I can think of a few offhand.

In the first six Star Trek movies, there were Klingons that were Lawyers, ambassadors, judges, prison guards, ect.

The reason that you don't see this much is because the warrior caste is the one that is shown the most. Most of the time we see the Klingon Empire in some form of war or conflict so the warrior caste is the one that is there to resolve it.

There have been a few times, however, where we see instances of artists and showmen in the Empire. Opera is very big on the Klingon homeworld and Worf has an extensive collection to himself that he takes great pride in.

the merchant who sold the tribble (jone) was human, and he was just an idiot who were introducing destructive species into foreign planets

the actual klingon spy was disguised as a bureaucrat and poison the grain supply meant for a colony.

"The Legion" from Fragged Empire are a pretty fun twist on this concept.
They are a race created as foot-soldiers during a massive galactic war. After the war was over, in order to survive they have to actively force themselves to do thing that is not in there nature, but necessary for survival, so there greatest heroes are not warriors but farmers and parents.

Sparta. look into it.

basically the jemhadar if they ever separate from the dominion?

I guess they just want you to think extinction is bad. Maybe you should put the krogan in a zoo

the genophage itself was an bio weapon create by the council. In fact the krogan were adapting to the original strain before Mordin modified the virus.

kinda. They where sort of a slapdash creation, without a long term plan for there existence and now try to make the best out of it.

All of them? Tribal warfare is pretty necessary when you live in an extremely decentralized society and literally every person is important to the tribe but there's literally nobody important or powerful enough to bring all the people together and instill soldier (as opposed to warrior) values in them. Even the ancient Assyrians and shit, who invented regimented warfare, didn't have it before they did.

You mean warrior - aristocracy exists? And did around the whole world?

Curing the genophage was pretty unambiguously a poor choice because even Wrex, with his somewhat more reasoned stance than other krogan, was all about building up their population. It will definitely lead to a big war in the future.

It's funny how letting the Rachni come back into existance is probably the more sensible choice as with those you're always just talking with a handful of queens rather than with a gaggle of constantly horny battletoads.

Sometimes I can't tell what is intended as bait or if disinformation on a uruguayan wool processing forum is real

It's a lindybeige quote you daft bints.

I never wanted to end the krogan, but as you play through the series it becomes exceedingly clear that the krogan cannot be allowed to breed like they did. They almost conquered the galaxy until the genophage was deployed. Reducing its effects to a reasonable level? Maybe yeah. But curing it? No, you don't want to crush an enemy like that, let their anger fester for a generation, then give them back the tools to wage war against you. You either don't give your defeated enemy a reason to start a new war down the line, or you take away their ability to do so completely.

>Someone needs to grow the food,
raid for it
>cook the food,
female slave do it
>move the food from the farms to the boot camps,
male slaves do it
>build the cart which delivers the food,
steal the cart on a raid
>harvests the timber for the cart,
raid for it, we went over this
>makes the nails for the cart,
raid
>mines the ore for the nails,
raiding, can you not grasp this?
>build the roads and all that.
Don't need no stinking roads but slaves can do that work
>the demands of maintaining an industrial rather than a rural economy.
loot and pillage

...

One of the most widespread Klingon cultural icons besides their Warriors is their Coffee.

So I guess they have kick ass Baristas.

The Irony being here that the Celts, pretty much the people who invented being a Barbarian Warrior culture also had fantastic metalworking skills in Both Iron/Steel and Gold.

What is Sparta

>tfw the US is a warrior culture

19th century and even early 20th century Europe more so.

OP is a faggot, but this got me thinking:
Most successful ancient cultures had three basic castes- Priest/Clerical (i.e Brahmin, Mandarin, or what Plato might call Philosopher Kings)- those who administer to often both spiritual and temporal life, Warrior (i.e. Kshatriya, Chevalier, Samurai)- those who fought for, defended, and often held the real power in ancient civilizations, and the Peasant/Merchant (i.e. Viasya/Sudra, those with Bronze souls in Plato's Republic, the Plebeians) who supported the other two castes and were in turn ruled/defended by the other castes.

It's interesting because this roughly lines up with the big three classes= Mage/Priest, Fighter, and Rogue. Is there something we can develop from this?

In keeping with plato you got the abstract of an idea.
There are literally thousand of things you could develop from this. The question is so open ended it doesn't really go anywhere at all.

Add another ingredient to the mix or some set dressings at least.

Even after the genophage krogan could give birth to one or two health children a year, they just gave up.

>Doesn't want to play Space Vikings
>Doesn't want to play Space Samurais
>Doesn't want to play Space Knights
>Doesn't want to play Space Spartans
>Doesn't want to play Space Best Korea

What a cuck

>H'DURR, WHAT IS SPARTA, DURR!!!

Perhaps 10% at most, and more like 5%, of the population of ancient Sparta (Lacedaemonia is really what you want to say) were actual Spartites. The remainder were split between Perioikoi (basically middle-class types) and Helots (slaves). You aren't describing a culture/society, but a social class.

>Vikings
Literally just the old Norse word for "pirate." Most Dark Ages Norse weren't VIKANGS, and when they were, it was only a temporary activity.
>Samurai
Again, a social class, not a society
>Knights
See above

This is a good model to keep in mind. Keep in mind that there are also numerous orders within each class, and that individuals from a lower class can very easily weird more real power/influence than those of higher classes.

This bullshit again?

I don't remember where it came from, but there was a side bit of info saying that even with 1 in a 1000 births being stillborn, the krogan would still have positive population growth if they weren't such fucking niggers.

It clearly fucking was.

a social class that rule society. You were on the top of the food chain while everybody else was in the bottom.

By this metric, almost every pre-modern society can be described as a "Warrior Culture." The elite of other ancient Greek city-states were also a martial aristocracy.

The only exceptions would be something like a theocracy or a merchant republic, and these were far, far, less common historically than warrior aristocracies.

There is nothing exceptional about
>muh spartans
>muh samurai

Also, your comment about "everyone else" beignet the bottom of the food chain doesn't really hold as a rule either, since the nobility has almost always avoided (or been prohibited) from participation in commerce, meaning that they have several times throughout history actually been LESS powerful than the merchant class "below" them.

Edit: This all does seem to change if we go back far enough, and I mean REAL far. Evidence seems to suggest that prior to the early Bronze Age, societies were rules by a priestly class rather than warriors, but there's very little evidence from this era.

Also, there have been a few historical societies where the landed commoners were of sufficient number to challenge the power of the nobility.

The genophage is one hell of an issue. My question though is. Did anybody take the time to EXPLAIN the logic? where the korgans never told that not every planet is a Death World so they really cannot be allowed to out-breed everything. Ignorance cemented the krogan belief and gave rise to their racial apathy when it should have been sold as an enemy you beat by successfully reproducing.

Now undoing it completely? yeah in the long term that is one of the worst ideas. WE WUZ and revenge will see the stars drown in blood. But Mordin..well, doing nothing would have been better. He tells us the krogan where overcoming the genophage. Perhaps in a million years they'd be back to themselves. But that is literally too far away to worry about