Asoiaf Alternate Universe

>I do not think it is retarded, but it does undermine his whole works with the rampant brutality in the rest of his work. When characters do stupid things, they get punished for it, be it backstabbing, politics, etc. Jon, largely cautious and reluctant to do things, while Daenerys is able to fly through the book with the strongest plot armor we have seen in fiction.

I could live with Daenerys being awesome if she would actually utilize her Dragons Aegon the Conqueror style. Burning down the cities in the Slaver's Bay and liberating whats left of the population? That would be cool and it would legitimately allow the question if Daenerys is similar to the Mad King (something that the show lamely tries to do).

But with her plot armor and her holier than thou attitude its just retarded.

>utilize her Dragons Aegon the Conqueror style. Burning down the cities in the Slaver's Bay and liberating whats left of the population?

Yes, I would agree with this. If she was more bloodthirsty and ruthless. I do not understand why she has this motherly response to all things. Madness and brutality run in her family, as well as the situations she finds herself in. I would dearly love to see her become so.

>Yes, I would agree with this. If she was more bloodthirsty and ruthless. I do not understand why she has this motherly response to all things. Madness and brutality run in her family, as well as the situations she finds herself in. I would dearly love to see her become so.

True. I mean I don't have a problem with her values and her somewhat noble goals but what annoys me is that she constantly employs "noble" methods and still succeeds.

Eddard dies but Dany always has great success.

>Reading the books again.
>weeks without even opening
>why am i not reading it?
Open the book and see that i'm on a Jon Snow chapter. dropped. i will eventually read that shit i guess

I would rather have Adolf Hitler stroll in with Panzer tanks than have to deal with Dany's bullshit.

Nobody wanted to fuck Eddard.

Plus I think "great success" is a gross overstatement. Dany brute forces her way to power sure, but everything after that is just a spiral until chaos as she desperately tries to have her cake and eat it too.

So is she a Mary Sue or not? Make up your mind.

Ultimately yes because we all know she is going to unite the Memethraki with some bullshit and then will return to save the day.

The point about Dany being young and hot is valid but that only takes you so far.

Ehh even the Chaos she has created now is only so low due to Plot Armor.

Without Plot Armor we would have 3 wild dragons terrorizing the Slaver's Bay where the Masters are back in control.

I think in GoT someone says that the Dothraki think the Dragons are the children of the sun. Dothraki see Dani riding a dragon worship her for being a saint or some shit.

But I agree GoT like many things is good but not as great as some people make it up to be.

If I was Dany in Mereen I would've invited all the nobles to the palace for the excuse of making peace. Then killed the fuck out of all of them. the Ghiscari should've stayed down after the Freehold was through with them.

>If I was Dany in Mereen I would've invited all the nobles to the palace for the excuse of making peace. Then killed the fuck out of all of them.
This idea is discussed in the books again and again and again, user.

I've only read GoT and the Wiki since I'm waiting for him to release all the books before I read through the whole thing.

I'd still just purge the slaver scum.

Riding in with a bunch of savages would only make the problems in the Slaver's Bay worse though.

Emancipating slaves is incredibly hard and once Daenerys is gone (muh Westeros) the whole Slaver's bay will be a chaotic mess for a century. And Slavery would probably return.

>Riding in with a bunch of savages would only make the problems in the Slaver's Bay worse though.
Wrong. She only needs them to win the Battle of Fire. After that she can leave ruling to Hizdahr, leave a small garrison to ensure he does not forget who he's married to and leave. Hizdahr may look and act slimy, but he's actually a pretty reliable guy.

Of course, Dany won't do that. She'll probably slaughter the masters and sack the Slaver's Bay (plus Volantis and maybe Pentos) because of her character development in the last chapter. The more she drank and all that, remember?

I think Dany's arc should be about her personal failings as a leader and the realization that using Dragons to solve problems will only lead to ashes, but at the same time that is the only tool in her arsenal.

Realization that if you tear everything down, what you will end up with is not a brighter future but just devastation.

If you kill everyone skilled in statecraft, you cannot build or maintain a state. Moral High ground never built anything.

Basically, turn her into the villain of the story.
World needs to get over the need for Dragons and rise above, ultimately destroying them.

Relying on prophecy and magic will just lead to a new fall of Valyria.

But dragons are the solution to all problems, if she only took the idea to its logical conclusion. The world should be in a tug of war between fire and ice.

meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

You Won't Believe This 4 Part Blogpost About The Real Dany And Why Her Story Could Actually Pay-off!

You're a fucking retard. LITERALLY the first fucking chapter is snow elf zombies.
neck yourself.

Daario Naharis almost word-for-word suggests what you just said.

Why do people think that a society built on sacrificing humans to firebreathing lizards would be a good idea?

That's right. Dragons are tools of a ruthless empire of slavery and blood magic. In order for Dragons to survive, they must be let to fly free and hunt. Their prey being not just cattle, but your own subjects as well.

Dragons are and never were a force for good. They are a force of destruction and subjugation. Construct of blood magic which converts errant flesh to fire and uses that fire to feed itself more flesh.

Also, why do people think the Others are even invading?
All they have done thus far is stay on THEIR side of the wall and kill illegal immigrants that brought rape, theft and clan violence to their lands as well as wipe out an incursion of Night's Watchmen that pushed to their territory.

IIRC they were driven back a long time ago and the Wall went up to keep them there. Given the folklore around them, assuming they'll try to get past it isn't unreasonable. It's not like they show any interest in explaining themselves.

The knights in this setting wear full plate armor in combat and yet also seemingly are mentioned to exclusively use swords and shields despite the anachronism and uselessness of that combination against plate armor:
I’m sorry user, but the ENTIRE setting is intensely unrealistic. It’s like Ivalice from Final Fantasy Tactics; a pseudo-plausible fantasy setting with a greater emphasis on dynastic politics then most, but still a FANTASY setting nonetheless.

What is Arthur Dayne?

>Ultimately yes because we all know she is going to unite the Memethraki with some bullshit and then will return to save the day.
Why, because the show said so?
This IS the show that has Dany cross something like hundreds and hundreds miles of space to fly out and save Jon’s ranging party all the way from Dragonstone to and unknown amount of distance part all somehow before they starve.

I’m not overly fond of Dany either but the show is fanfiction taking some basic thematic elements from unpublished later books, pure and simple.

A minor but influential deceased character in the novel who’s biggest accomplishment on the bearing of the plot was to die to superior numbers, as often happens in seven-on-three fights.

>The world should be in a tug of war between fire and ice.

I think the point of the entire series is that it shouldn't be. Both the spread of fire magic and the spread of the Others were direct results of foolish mortal meddling.

nah, it's a greatsword that died to another greatsword and to some swamp thing, proving not everyone wields sword and shield and that they do not win every honorable battle

It’s made pretty goddamn clear in the book that they are moving so slowly in the books because they are killing every goddamn living thing between point A and point B, animals included.
So I guess you could presume that they’ll stop at the Wall peacefully, or you could assume that their basic objective is to murder everything just like it was 2000-odd years ago. Maybe this is in fact inaccurate (Martin has stated that the Others are very alien but mildly more complex then just “the bad guys”), but knowing only that aspect of their history you could probably assume that they mean you no good.
Ninety percent of the time a plot hole in the show is actually explained in the novels. Not always explained well mind you (definitely some moments where I went “eh, I’ll allow it” in the plot), but the plotting is significantly tighter as long as you have solid reading comprehension, though apparently a lot of Veeky Forums either doesn’t or flat out just watches the show.

Fucking Veeky Forums folks whine about normies and then do the most basic bitch normie shit in the world, I swear to god.

Have you slept through ADwD? Her refusal to use dragons to solve her problems is the whole reason for the plot.

I think you’re sort of missing my point.
My point is that the series is mildly more grounded because it’s got more focus on the politics and long-term consequences of things, but in multiple ways it makes no logical sense when you examine it.
It’s a fantasy series, just a sort of dark fantasy or low fantasy or whatever term you want to argue about fantasy.

>(Martin has stated that the Others are very alien but mildly more complex then just “the bad guys”),

I assume he means they're not interested in power or just causing harm for harms sake, but they might well just be omnicidal. I feel like the complexity comes from the fact they were apparently created by the Children of the Forest, which I highly doubt is a show only plot point.

He honestly likely never even read it.

Probably a show watcher.

Oh no, I agree that this is likely as well.
It fits the recurring theme in the franchise or time heavily diluting and confusing the truth of things that happened in even the recent past.
It also fits how he frequently refers to them as “Sidhe made of ice”. Faeries in folklore frequently take children of humans because they cannot HAVE children of their own and need them to propegate themselves.

That is what I’m insinuating, yes.

>Dude, let's pretend that blindingly obvious things are world-shattering news
Oh no, I never could have suspected that the shady spymaster Shavepate is up to something.

I think the correct term here would be “low” fantasy in that the magic is relatively rare and oftentimes explainable away by possibly just being weird coincidence or pseudo-mystical bullshit a false prophet is spouting to sound impressive.
The most blatantly magical parts of the novels are the dragons (who are only magical in the sense that there’s pretty much no way they could exist), the Others (killer snow Faeries and their ice zombie sidekicks), and Melisandre (who is indeed implied by her inner thoughts to be way older then she looks, so probably spent a damn long time getting as powerful as she is).

Wargs too.
Actually, a lot of the less dangerous magic seems to be similar to warging. Even riding dragons has some suspiciously similar aspects to it according to that one novella.

>The most blatantly magical parts of the novels are the dragons (who are only magical in the sense that there’s pretty much no way they could exist), the Others (killer snow Faeries and their ice zombie sidekicks), and Melisandre (who is indeed implied by her inner thoughts to be way older then she looks, so probably spent a damn long time getting as powerful as she is).
And glass candles. And Quaithe. And Beric Dondarrion. And Dragonbinder. And Moqorro. And the ghost of the High Heart. And the magic talking door at Nightfort.
A lot of magic, come to think about it.

Kek.

You really believe that R.R. has better Ideas? Sure he would do it less hamfisted but roughly the same stuff will happen in the bocks.

Its pretty obvious that he has written himself into a dead end. The way the story has lost steam clearly shows this.

>Who is Robert Baratheon?
>Ignoring the bunch of people using Greatswords, Axes etc.

The problem with that is :

Dany isn't really using them. It would be a-ok to root for the Evil Empire. No one would have a problem with a Dany that is reenacting Aegons concquest.

Instead we get a character with an atom bomb not using it. Instead of using it she bullshits through the plot with plot Armor so thick it hurts.

That would be surpreme Mary Sue levels.

>completely destroy Social Structure
>making it worse by being a shit ruler
>return with Memethraki and Dragons
>hey generic nobleman of the old order I am invading the other continent
>you can rule here but remember Slavery is evil!1!!1

Realistically this would cause a rebound effect that puts Jim Crow to shame. The former Master would reclaim their power in a heartbeat.

Why is George Clooney being crowned the new king of just?

We get it, you hate Daenerys.

You are making the assumption that most things they need to kill are actually knights.
If your day job is pacifying wildlings and bandits with the occasional skirmish between minor houses, swords are pretty good sidearms as your enemies don't tend to be other Knights.
If they are, you can prepare accordingly.

Exactly, it is the reason for HER problems.
The point I was trying to make was that Dany SHOULD use the Dragons in her frustration because she was doing such a shit job without them that she burns everything to the ground and essentially becomes evil because she is too incompetent to be good.

Daenerys as a character is fine as long as you don't hanfistedly try to write her into a saviour that solves everyone's problems by dragonfire and magically everything is great afterwards because she killed all the bad guys and now everyone loves her.
That is terrible writing.

Basically, don't do what the show did.

Actually I like it most when the books are set in Westeros, South of the Neck and North of the Dornish Marshes.

Indeed. And you don't want to pull a Robert Baratheon and kill an enemy knight. You take him as a hostage for ransom money.

Well, blunt instruments are still quite fantastic for ransoming people regardless of the armor they are wearing.
Robert was out to kill Rhaegar though, so he prepared an appropriate sidearm for the job.
No doubt he was proficient with other weapons as well. Most good fighters in medieval time tended to learn the strengths and weaknesses of various weaponry that way.

In the end daggers tended to be the biggest killer of knights in the battlefield rather than blunt instruments.

With a blunt weapon you have a higher chance of killing or seriously maiming a Knight though.

And we have to keep in mind that a lot of characters have Valyrian Steel swords or are exceptional swordsman.

With a sharp weapon, you have a higher chance of dying before pacifying your opponent.
If they die from being bludgeoned to submission, it was in God's hands. Most of the time though if you don't make a point of hitting the most vital areas, you don't die that easily from being hit with a blunt object.

At least not before the ransom.

>Who is the magical counter weight against the others? Ideas?
Dragons I would say, but I would've kept them a savage threat. At least, that's what I thought until the last Olympic Games...

>Who is the magical counter weight against the others

Diarrhea.

If we're doing different Asoiaf versions, I'd go with something like this imgur.com/gallery/wuLsm

All this shit discussion about how the plot will go on when even a retard and his grandma already figured out how it's gonna end
Jon and Daenerys will marry and kill the evil bad Others while Aegon will manage to get to westeros, stir some shit and then die like a chump.
Either this or Jon repeats the azhor arhai shit where he stabs daenerys through the heart to gain the magical r'llohr powers and kill the Others, while Aegon conquers everything.
Despite being a series of books based on the assumption that even "main characters" die it's already pretty clear who the winners are going to be: the main characters.
Even if Jon is actually killed in the mutiny Melisandre will pull a Thoros of Myr on him just like in the show

>Even if Jon is actually killed in the mutiny
>if
Confirmed showfag

>imgur.com/gallery/wuLsm

Nice but I honestly don't like the feudal Japan aesthetic.

My favorite timelines would be:

>Drogo survives and invades Westeros. The whole thing turns out similar to Hannibals campaign. Initial successes but the Memethraki are unable to conquer Kings Landing or the Great Fortresses. When Winter hits the Dothraki are unable to feed their horses and suddenly the hunters become the hunted.

>Dany and Viserys aren't evacuated to Dragonstone and the mountain kills them. Later on Edmure just defends Riverrun (maybe Robb isn't autistic and tells Edmure the plan) and Stannis is able to conquer Kings Landing while Robb captures Tywin. The ensuing political situation is really interesting.