40k Lore Discussions 2

Did the Q'Orl get squatted? Have they really gotten no mention since Xenology?

Dude Chaos won't win.

Orks will. Orks have already won.

Why, oh why, did GW cut these guys? They were arguably the most interesting things about the Necrons and had such YOURDUDES-potential.

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Have we gotten anything about the imperum since Guillimans return? A fucking primarch returning would have world shattering social consequences to the imperium at large. Equivalent to Jesus descending from the sky and leading an angelic battalion against ISIS. Many of the things Guiliman would say would completely shatter everything these people believe in. Had he kept silent on a lot of shit as to not stir the pot too much and cause civil war? How have ordinary people reacted to Guilimans return? These are the interesting bits to a primarchs return that have not been expanded upon. I don't want to here about Big G tossing titans or cleaving bloodthirsters, I want to here about John Doe who sees Guiliman the son of his god right in front of him for the first time.

So as someone pretty new to the hobby how often/how much at a time does the lore update? I was curious as to how ultima founding chapters deal with non-primaris marines (especially sense they're described more as reinforcements instead of replacements) but I don't think it's been covered yet in canon.

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Read Dark Imperium and Watchers of the Throne, Guilliman hasnt done shit except patch up holes and invigorate the Astartes force, he's so over his head and he knows he cant change too much without destroying it all plus people are more respectful of his mythological persona to be awed when he doesnt meet their expectations. Even Calgar is somewhat dissappointed and wished his Primarch didnt treat him as a tool soon to be discarded.

We've gotten some stuff yes. The Imperial Creed is both Guilliman biggest asset and biggest headache. He hates the religion and sees it as an afront to everything he believed in and fought for. At the same time the fanaticism he inspires is what gives him the clout to butt heads with more intractable elements of the Imperium. Joe Schmoe reacts exactly as you described and it makes him uncomfortable as hell so he avoids dealing with the Ecclesiarchy whenever possible, especially since extensive questioning leads to trouble. It's on the council of Celestine and Greyfax he's even playing along. At the same time while he has the Ecclesiarchy and the High Lords more or less behind him, the Mechanicus is still the Mechanicus and they aren't happy over Cawls techno heresy, and the Inquisition is butting heads with him.

That's not all he's done. Calgar feels left aside, especially since Guilliman seems to favor Cato Sicarus, but aside from neutering him by virtue of existing Guilliman hasn't done much but leave Calgar in charge of overseeing ultramar.

Guilliman has also established literal armies dedicated to collecting and restoring Imperial records and information and they're armed to go up against thr inquisition. He's also reinvigorated the Sisters of Silence and the Custodes. He is mired in Imperium politics yes but he doesn't have much choice, with the galaxy burning and the smallest mistake carrying the risk of undoing anything

Glacially. This thing with Guilliman is a huge sea change, since prior the plot had been more or less in complete stasis. So it's hard to predict exactly what the future holds.

Guilleman would have an easier time if another primarch like dorn or russ came back to lead the war side of things so he can focus on politics

In my head cannon Guilliman doesn't even bother trying to fix anything and is just out and about around the galaxy stomping peons in simple scouting missions. Considering you can take him in a thousand point game to deal with a small cultist battalion or a couple uppity Tau it seems pretty much his MO at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up to fix some agri-worlder's space tractor or something.

>Dorn
I see him brought up a lot in "Who's coming back next?" conversations, but I thought he was pretty much confirmed dead. Did I miss something, or is it more under the assumption that they'll just make up whatever excuse to hand-wave it and bring him back?

He survived

Dorn is MIA, they only recovered his hand so he is quite possibly alive though presumed dead.

He was MIA i believe

Dorn was MIA except for his hand and I think they lost the hand or something recently?

Corax is also MIA, as is Russ, and Khan. Vulkan is a perpetual so he died but he literally cannot die so he's somewhere. Sanguinius is dead but is connected to Dante pyschically or something which is why he can't die. Johnson is MIA and probably imprisoned in the Rock. Ferrus Manus is dead dead though people joke about his headless spirit leading the legion of the damned and Fulgrim canonically clones him constantly

very few non-playable xenos have been mentioned since the xenology era, even Kroot/Vespid.

Hrud only recently got re-mentioned in the Perturabo book.

the novel dark imperium cuts to 100 years since guilliman has returned. It took him that long to re-organize the imperium after the chaos caused by the great rift forming.

There are a lot of clues to him being alive.
But most point to either a fate worse than death or character death.
A few of these "pointers":
>Vulkan says he'll talk to Dorn about how great Koorland, all this AFTER Dorn was thought to have died.
Sure, it was an insane, WAAAAAGH! infused Vulkan, but still.
>Dorn's hand was found at all
When Ferrus Manus got his haircut from Fulgrim, servants of chaos swarmed his body and tore it apart, since they knew that any tiny piece of a primarch would be bragging rights like nothing else.
And yet, a whole hand was just left there to rot? The hand of one of the most, if not the most loyal primarch? The hand of the Praetorian of Terra?
Am I supposed to believe that they didn't want his hand or something?
And even if that's the case, how the hell did they manage to actually kill a fucking Primarch? Inside a ship, nonetheless, where space and firepower are limited?
Abaddon sure as fuck couldn't do it, if he had that kind of power it wouldn't have taken him so long to rally chaos together and fuck Cadia up.

fyi, the latest space marine battles book ashes of propero basically confirms the next 2 primarchs to return.

He says Russ will return one day, but not before the sleeping lion and a guy riding a chariot.

So Lion El'Jonson and Khan, then maybe Russ

>guy riding a chariot.
This could also be the Silent King

oh and I forgot, that one necron dude that collects stuff had some huge guy in golden armour locked in stasis, didn't he?
Some people think it's Dorn, since huge as fuck, wearing golden armour and important enough to be locked away rather than killed is kinda too specific to be anyone else, really.
The other guy in golden armour fucking died to Horus, there's custodes, but they wouldn't mention it if was just one of these degenerates.

Isn’t Russ in the Warp looking for the literaly Tree of Life from the Bible so he can bring Big E back to life?

He thinks the Codex was a mistake and builds a "not legion", legion in Ultramar. Dorn is right again.

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He intended he codex to be temporary and a stabilizing point, he never intended for it to be worshipped as gospel

Hence why he's not the hottest on the Ultramarines actual leadership and is instead looking more towards hotheads like Sicarus

Pretty much. To give more detail, he went and fucked off some time after the Horus Heresy with the entirety of his first company to go look for that. Now, there's reports of "unknown Wulfen" or something along those lines causing havoc for Chaos forces in and around the Eye of Terror.

Why did the emperor make the sisters of silence only talk in sign language?
For what purpose?

Have you fucking heard more than three women blethering on at each other? It's more annoying than sonic shriekers.

Did the silver knight manage to fugg Slanesh at least?

Oh he totally fugged that boypussy

Because they didn't really fit with the newcron fluff.

Oldcron fluff had it so it seemed that C'tan had a hand in the evolution of mankind by making it so that blanks would appear in the population.

Newcron fluff has it so that there was no C'tan active during the evolution of mankind and that the only active Necrons were busy with other things than to be bothered with mankind.

truly our emperor is wise and just

Wrong.

The Oldcron codex had the C'tan place the pariah gene in the primate ancestors of mankind. Guess when did the primates emerge on Earth? 60 million years ago. Just in time to look up to the sky and witness the War of Heaven.

The real reason why Pariahs were removed was because the Lychguard took their role.

Do you think he could let it rip if someone loosens his straps?

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Still is.

The guy in the snake body is the laer blade demon. Fulgrim is either dead or trapped in the painting.

The headiest of headcanons my dear.
I'm afraid Fulgrim will come soon enough for us to find out.

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If Griffith was a Chaos Follower he'd follow Tzeentch (ambition is primary motivation + avian stuff)

Can old marines get the new upgrades or is it too late?

Dorn, the guy that would have rather caused another civil war with the remains of the Imperial gov't than give up power? Because yes, losing power was what it was all about. Corax and the Khan had misgivings, but went along with it because they could put the human race and it's survival before personal pride.

According to Index Astartes, Dorn's BODY was recovered, and his hand was used as a holy relic to mark chapter masters.
If he is simply MIA, then sauce it, because it smacks of fancanon.

It would make sense for it to the Khan based on the Ullanor art work. Plus Guilliman's alliance with the Eldar and members of the Scars entering the webway to search recently.

They can receive them, yes.

Rogue Trader in 1987 was actually pretty different, lorewise. You still had a grimdark Imperium, Emperor and all, and navigators, and shirtless Custodes, but Space Marines weren't necessarily genhanced and there was a half-Eldar Ultramarine librarian. It was more Dune.

In the few years after that, they fleshed out Chaos and came up with the idea for a civil war set in the past (in order to sell an Epic-scale box set with just one set of minis - they couldn't afford two). That was when 40k really got established. 1st ed. Epic had the Horus Heresy (including Isstvan III and the Imperial Fists and 'Whitescars' at the Siege of Terra - no Blood Angels yet) and vague references to daemons, but 2nd ed. ('91-'93, somewhere around then) added primarchs (they were previously just generals), Chaos cult legions, daemon primarchs, etc. 2nd ed. 40k came out in '93 and it was pretty close to pre-8th 40k.

One big exception: Squats had a 2nd ed. get-you-by list and when it was time to write a codex, the GW guys felt they were too transparently silly space dwarves and couldn't do it.

In late 2nd they started hinting at Necrons then released a few metal models. 3rd came out in '98 or so with Dark Eldar, and then Tau. That led up to stuff finally happening in the 2002 Eye of Terror campaign - the 13th Black Crusade - which brought back Craftworld Althansar, damaged Cadia, saw Eldrad get swallowed by a Blackstone Fortress's soul, and stopped Abaddon yet again. People complained about how nothing really happened, so towards the end of 7th (like around Death Masque) GW pretended that the 13th Black Crusade never happened and did it again.

I haven't been a fan of the quality of the new stuff, but something did need to happen. Ynnead and the Tyranids reaching Baal had been hinted at since the '90s - good to see those kinda resolved. We'd been stuck at M41.999 since then.

When does the Imperium come to planets to collect the Tithe?

Depends on several things:
What the Tithe consists of
How urgently it's needed elsewhere
Availability of Transports to ship it in
Warp conditions on the relevent routes
Whether the Administratum have misplaced the file

So for a mining world producing high value ores urgently needed for weapons production, it would make sense to have several ships visiting regularly on a rota, providing the Warp conditions aren't near suicidal, in order to maintain the supply.

Whenever the adeptus terra remember they exist

I’m asking because I’m writing up fluff for my Imperial Guardsmens homeworld, the produce Promethium and create/send guardsmen to the Imperial Guard. Would it make sense for the ships to arrive every 10 years to collect promethium and a regiment of Guardsmen?

A few people keep saying that, but after one off hand mention in a livestream and/or an intern's word from the facebook, has there been a single source to back this up?

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No its just a meme.

>NO CHAPTER MASTER THIS IS NOT A PHASE
>I WAS BORN TO BE A PRIMARIS MARINE

How does one worship and praise Tzeentch?
I mean the other gods seem straightforward enough like killing people for Khorne but how do you worship the god of change?

>losing power was what it was all about
It was about tossing the last handful of dirt on the memory of the Great Crusade, and it being done by the asshole who wasn't even there when it mattered the most to boot. Also, do keep in mind Dorn had just gone through some of the biggest trauma a sentient being can experience, and his sons hated the Codex and the idea of separating from their father even more then he did.

Fluff in the novels.
>it being done by the asshole who wasn't even there when it mattered the most to boot
This meme again? It was done by the one guy who actually understood the political situation of the failing Imperium and wasn't so high up that he couldn't understand what ordinary people wanted.

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>facts i can't argue against are memes
BTW i wasn't actually arguing against Gulliman's reforms, what i was doing was giving Dorn's point of view and state of mind.

The more there are orks, the more there are challengers for the biggest, baddest ork. The more there are challengers, the more likely the supreme leader is to die. If he dies, orks lose their unity and start fighting each other. While they're doing that, they are in no position to be an existential threat to the rest of the sentient races. This means that orks can never grow much beyond certain point, always regressing back to it. Orks can't win.

You worship him by getting Swole

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>he's so over his head
Guilliman should be an amazing empire builder. He single handedly made Ultramar the greatest segmentum within imperium during the Great Crusade, and he did it from scratch in a mere century . He was an amazing military commander, who could outmaneuver the best void commanders with ease. He could order space ships around massive void battles by relying on his mere sight. He has survived fights against demons, primarchs, demon primarchs, xenos and traitors. He has even survived for hours in the void of space without a space suit.

If the authors are writing shit about him being over his head, the authors are shit. Which everyone already knows that they are, when it comes to the dark imperium and its pussified xenos tolerating Black Templars and brain dead Ultramarines. I hate it when authors try to 'humanize' space marines and primarchs by introducing stupid weaknesses in them. In Warhammer 40k, you don't make the story interesting by making your overpowered Superman weaker, you make his enemies stronger.

You need a change you can believe in. Yes you can!

Can Astartes change "career paths"?
by that i mean, tech marine to apothecary, apothecary to captain, chaplain to chapter master etc etc
I know librarians have become Chapter Masters

desu it's not so much that he's in over his head, it's that most of his underlings can't operate on the same level as him and regularly fuck up or contradict his plans

You are chosen for your aptitude, not for personal interest.
A chapter master/captain is a position granted by merit.

>chaplain
I seem to remember that once a battle-brother becomes chaplain, he's not suposed to go back to "secular" life. He can become interrogator-chaplain or above, but he doesn't meddle with the politics of the chapter (in theory)

The meme is "hurr guilliman doesn't know what he is talking about because he wasn't there for the siege, when other legions also missed out".
Dorn being illogical and unreasonable isn't an excuse. Vulkan opposed the reform as well, but saw the sense in it and accepted it.

>Dorn
>sentient

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I wish 'If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device" was canon

Are there any good books about Konrad Curze? I love that guy. I read a short book about Sevatar, where Curze had hung corpses in his bedroom, since he wanted to assign bodies to the voices he hears.

>when other legions also missed out
Other legions didn't start swinging their dicks around like they were the heroes who saved mankind, though.
t. pertardo

Is the Great Rift a bit too grim? Is it really necessary?

there's another short story about him (the Dark King), set right after he pushes Dorn's shit in and gets locked up for it, but it's extremely short, although pretty good.
I think it deals with his decision to exterminatus Nostromo.

>toilet seat envy

so what exactly would happen if the Dark Angel's secret ever came out?

I like it. It gave 40k much needed breath of life in the stale-ish galaxy

Honestly how is he going to react to the imperium as of now
the whole primaris marine stuff I would imagine he’d be cool with
but the whole thing with bobby g and his waifu would be pretty awkward for vulkan
considering vulkan’s experience with eldar human interaction have been less then pleasant

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They'd change their name to Rainbow Angels.

I hope he would take over the imperum with dorn after they learn that girlyman was always plotting to take imperial throne for himself

It was confirmed to be a Custodes.

My moneys on it being the custodes thta took drachnyen into himself.
That necron really fucked things up

>Guilliman already had the title of Regent, and gave it up once he set up a civilian gov't that could stand without him

Do Harlequins perform for non eldar?
if so what do imperil critics think?

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t. manletarius

Girlyman is not stupid
It's just a smoke screen

>all media outside of RT presents Guilliman as, while ambitious, genuinely caring about the Imperium and humanity
>he MUST be evil!

Why is ghost Sanguinius such a asshole?

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They do the high lords permit it but the show ends usually with a volley of lasfire instead of applause.
Apparently they're really good.

>but 2nd ed. ('91-'93, somewhere around then) added primarchs
Actually Primarchs as we know know them (and the setting itself really) coalesced in 1990's Slaves to Realms of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned.

>Slaves to Realms of Chaos
Looks like I crossed some wires there in my head.

Because it was better than feeding Dante's enormous ego and saying, "Yeah senpai, you ARE the golden warrior to stand between the Emperor and darkness. haha, JK son, it's me. You didn't actually think anything like artistic integrity was going to stop GW from bring me back for them sweet sweet $$$$ did you?"

Horus was also a nice guy before heresy. Also I've never said that girlyman is worshipping chaos. I only say that he always wanted to have HIS OWN empire.

But Dante certainly deserved his rest he has fought for mankind and the Emperor for over 1000 years.

I was going to cite Index Astartes since that's what I remember and that's what lexicanum cites but it does say that they "recoverd what remained of Rogal Dorn. His skeletal hand...". I could see that as being read as his whole body was found, but I can also see why it'd be read as only his hand and Dorn being missing presumed dead.
In any case, even if it was fancanon, fans run the show now and Dorn's been implicitly mentioned as living by Vulkan as late as The War of the Beast.

And Guilliman's ambition has not led him to seizing power, he willingly gave it up.
Horus' vanity and fear led him down his road.