Bitcoin Cash vs. Bitcoin Segwit

I'm an early Bitcoin investor(2011), and I fully support BCH as the "real" Bitcoin. These arguments have been repeated over and over, with no actual rebuttal, but here we go again.
LN is a laughable scaling solution that centralizes payment routes and naturally evolves towards a hub-and-spoke model. The argument that routing is NP-hard is laughable, at the scale of LN, that shit doesn't matter. However, that doesn't detract from the fact that LN has many blaring problems.
If we're talking about concrete issues that are apparent right now, having hubs that are central points of failure is horrible for censorship resistance. Regarding future issues, it's likely that according to US regulations at least that LN hubs will be classified as 3rd party settlement organizations, and it will be illegal for businesses to use noncompliant hubs. These regulations require hubs to collect KYC information and adhere to AML laws.
Meanwhile, on-chain scaling solutions don't require an additional network that is open to centralization or attacks the same way LN is. The most obvious on-chain solution is to simply increase the block size. While Blockstream shills argue that increasing the block size will lead to fewer full nodes, the reality is that

1. storage costs are continuously going down
2. "full" nodes without hashpower are meaningless(more on this later), and
3. it was in Satoshi's vision to increase the block size as time went on.

cont. (1/2)

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g
youtube.com/watch?v=sbD0kiTddEs
youtube.com/watch?v=QbvtAlmfYQI
archive.is/kRLn4
youtu.be/QbvtAlmfYQI?t=5m3s
yuki.la/biz/4406345
yuki.la/biz/7414667
news.bitcoin.com/7-million-transactions-a-second-research-paper-declares-1tb-blocks-feasible/
medium.com/@WhalePanda/asicboost-the-reason-why-bitmain-blocked-segwit-901fd346ee9f
markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/Shyft-Introduces-Revolutionary-Blockchain-Based-KYC-AML-Network-For-Global-Economy-1015123156
bitcoin.com/bitcoin.pdf
crypto.youcollect.co/

You have no idea what you are talking about. Kys immediately.

Expanding on the second point, the only thing Bitcoin solves is the double spending problem(look it up). Signed transactions in a ledger is nothing revolutionary. Bitcoin is revolutionary because it doesn't require trust to keep the ledger in check, which it does via PoW. The network rules(size of a block, reward in a block, difficulty etc.) are irrelevant since any miner who breaks them will fork themselves to another network. It is in no one's interest to break them. However, miners with enough hashpower can rewrite the ledger with no consequences, and "full" nodes(with no hashpower) can't do JACK SHIT about it. "Full" nodes simply blindly accept whichever chain has the most proof of work.
I'm not even going to go into RBF which gimped zeroconf transactions.
The hard truth is, Blockstream is a company, and they're gimping the actual blockchain in order to sell their proprietary solutions to companies. It's sad to see the direction BTC is taking. /r/bitcoin is a prime example of the censorship that is going on.
Look all of this shit up and you'll agree that Bitcoin Cash is the legitimate Bitcoin.

>inb4 called a shill
I own no BTC and no BCH. Bitcoin(either one) has no future as a mainstream currency.
If you have a rebuttal against my arguments, please reply.

lets face it, this is the only fork that matters

Bitcoin vs Ethereum
bcash.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>faggot cashie cunts think it is a binary choice
>faggot cashie cunts think that a gen 1 shitcoin like bcash will be the future
cashies are mongloids

>reading comprehension
Read my second post, you pathetic faggot.

> OBLIGATORY Veeky Forums VIEWING
> OBLIGATORY Veeky Forums VIEWING
> OBLIGATORY Veeky Forums VIEWING

youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g
youtube.com/watch?v=sbD0kiTddEs
youtube.com/watch?v=QbvtAlmfYQI

> OBLIGATORY Veeky Forums VIEWING
> OBLIGATORY Veeky Forums VIEWING
> OBLIGATORY Veeky Forums VIEWING

>Muh blockstream conspiracy
>Muh copy paste

That actually sounds more promising.

>>Muh copy paste
I wrote this by hand(granted, I edited a shorter version I posted yesterday). If you have an actual rebuttal against the points I make, please go ahead.

> The full story of /r/bitcoin - info about Blockstream, etc:

archive.is/kRLn4

"Shortly after Blockstream came active on the scene, every single anti-bitcoin troll on /r/bitcoin disappeared. In the years before that, there were a large number of anti-bitcoin trolls. Up until last year, you could go down to the bottom of pretty much any thread in /r/bitcoin and see many of the usual trolls who were heavily downvoted for saying things like "bitcoin is shit" and "you guys and your tulips" etc. But then suddenly they all disappeared. Instead, a new type of people appeared - people who said they were fully in support of bitcoin, but they just so happened to support every single thing Blockstream and its employees said and did. They had the exact same tone as the anti-Bitcoin trolls who had disappeared. Their way of talking to people was aggressive, they'd call people names, they had a relatively poor understanding of how bitcoin fundamentally worked."

FACTS:

Blockstream receives their funding from AXA Strategic Ventures (owned by Henri de Castries). And from Digital Currency Group - a venture capital firm whose board director is Glenn Hutchins of the Fed Reserve Bank. MasterCard also invested in DCG.

Nobody will fall for your retarded bitcoin propaganda conspiracy and bcash shill. Bcash sucks and the marketing and community won't trick me, they can hoard all brainless naive faggots but us smart people see through their bullshit.

>muh bcash is the original bitcoin

No idiot kys. It's a fork so altcoin

BTC, after Blockstream took control over it, /that/ is the fork.

BCH is the original Bitcoin, free from Blockstream's control. Uncorrupted.

No you brainless, spineless, retard. Make your own conclusion. Compare pre-fork, post-rock and NOW. It's bcash deceptive marketing tricking low intelligent people like you.

So in other words you don't have a real argument.

youtu.be/QbvtAlmfYQI?t=5m3s

5m 3s

roger pls go

>i cant refute a single point of substance so ill just pout and say no

> "Bitcoin is the currency of the Internet. A distributed, worldwide, decentralized digital money. Unlike traditional currencies such as dollars, bitcoins are issued and managed without the need for any central authority whatsoever. There is no government, company, or bank in charge of Bitcoin. As such, it is more resistant to wild inflation and corrupt banks. With Bitcoin, you can be your own bank."

THAT is what Bitcoin is! Exactly that.

And that description does NOT describe BTC anymore. BTC (since Blockstream took control of it) is going in the opposite direction of that description. Blockstream is turning it into the opposite it of what it's supposed to be.

And in fact, Blockstream paid shills are now even trying to change people's "perception" or "idea" of what Bitcoin is supposed to be. They want people to now think "Bitcoin was not meant to be a currency" and that it only is supposed to be an investment and a store of value for rich people, and nothing else.

So they come here and write shit like "it's not a currency" and make fake threads like these:

yuki.la/biz/4406345
yuki.la/biz/7414667

where are your arguments against bitcoin cash?

>XLM
>1000 tx/second
>Basically, non-existent fees
Why are we still talking about these two shitcoins?

Because 1000tx/second is fucking nothing in the long term.

prob because bitcoin is more of a commodity than an actual currency which bch is trying to be

Shoo shoo roger ver

news.bitcoin.com/7-million-transactions-a-second-research-paper-declares-1tb-blocks-feasible/

...

Love seeing more of these type of post here as more people are waking up to see the truth and reality as we move forward. Roger continually says that this year Cash will replace Core as dominant market cap coin, I think he knows why more than any core shill here.

Don't be ridiculous. I have nothing against the project itself bcash but their retarded gimmick and advertising is stupid and malicious.
Bcash is a fork from bitcoin thus just as much bitcoin as diamond or gold.

>ASICBoost, the reason why Bitmain blocked Segwit.
>Bitmain produces around ~70% of all miners and put quite a few companies out of business.
>Mining is a small profit margin business, if 1 company can boost its profits by 30% that is significant and get up to an extra $100 million per year.
>Bitmain wanted to push Segwit either through a hard fork, or in Extension Blocks which would be compatible with their ASICBoost. A soft fork of Segwit, which is by far the safest option, isn’t compatible and they would lose their advantage over other miners.

medium.com/@WhalePanda/asicboost-the-reason-why-bitmain-blocked-segwit-901fd346ee9f

Coretards appear to be getting desperate.

>having hubs that are central points of failure is horrible for censorship resistance. Regarding future issues, it's likely that according to US regulations at least that LN hubs will be classified as 3rd party settlement organizations
As if regulation is a bad thing. Blosckstream is already working to make the hubs compatible with law: markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/Shyft-Introduces-Revolutionary-Blockchain-Based-KYC-AML-Network-For-Global-Economy-1015123156
BTC will never be adopted without being a regulated bank. What could an investor hope for more than the blessing of the banks and governments?

The LN isn't a 2nd layer, it's really a new PoS fork of BTC. It'll be BTC 2.0, backed up by the old ledger but using completely new solutios.

And so the narrative shifts, "LIGHTNING WILL MAKE BITCOIN DECENTRALISED FOREVER AND TRUE TO THE CYPERPUNK VISION BCASH IS A SCAM BY BIG CORPORATES" becomes "Of course lightning will shift Bitcoin to ground where it can be bought under the necessary regulation, AMLKYC compliance and other essential features will be implemented" all the while ignoring that this is exactly what the Bitcoin Cash guys said would happen.

Why didn't they make Bitcoin Copper Private Cash with all of the pros of all? We need more forks, that will help with the scarcity.

That is NOT what bitcoin is. It always was a pump and dump, you can't explain 200B MC of a product which nobody uses for anything otherwise.

Nobody is using XLM.

>needing to adopt bitcoin, then segwit, and then LN, and then probably KYC compliance

Yo dawg, I heard you like to cripple adoption. So we put adoption in your adoption so you can adopt while you adopt.

GEE IT SURE IS CONVENIENT TO USE BLOCKSTREAM CORE

I didn't know there were so many bch supporters here...

Ding ding ding. XLM is the future. Like I said here , BTC/BCH(or any coin which uses PoW for that matter) does not have a future as a mainstream currency, simply because PoW is flawed. PoW is linearly broken, will always be an arms race of better performing hardware, and is extremely inefficient. XLM uses a federated Byzantine agreement, which reaches consensus within seconds without any staking/mining going on. It's efficient as fuck, and federated means the network is not under control by an entity like Ripple. The Stellar network can carry any kind of other currencies/tokens as well.
The future(let's say 20 years from now) will have 3 main cryptocurrencies:

XLM for mainstream use. You would use XLM to pay for your cup of coffee and your Amazon order.
XMR for privacy use. You would use XMR to pay for your baggie of heroin on a DNM.
ETH(will most likely be replaced by a better alternative) + LINK for smart contracts. Self explanatory.

Ethereum will either undergo massive revamps or be forgotten. EVM is a clusterfuck. Unsafe math in a smart contract language? Seriously?

Why even use crypto if it requires all these things? srs question

You Blockstream shills will continue to try deceive people into believing Bitcoin is what Blockstream says it is. You count on people being ignorant, for your deception to work.

Blockstream only cares about the name "Bitcoin" -- they don't give a shit about the technology. The entire purpose of the Blockstream takeover, is to destroy what Bitcoin is intended to be. The more you change Bitcoin, the less it is Bitcoin. Today, BTC is approximately half intact, half destroyed; it's half of what Bitcoin is meant to be. A few years from now after Blockstream is finished with it, it will be fully destroyed - the only thing BTC will have in common with Bitcoin will be the name. And that's all that matters to Blockstream.

BTC is is not Bitcoin anymore. BTC is Blockstream Coin. It is the Banker Coin - that's what they're turning it into.

Bitcoin on the other hand, that is the currency of the Internet. A distributed, worldwide, decentralized digital money.

Unlike traditional currencies such as dollars, bitcoins are issued and managed without the need for any central authority whatsoever.

There is no government, company, or bank in charge of Bitcoin. As such, it is more resistant to wild inflation and corrupt banks. With Bitcoin, you can be your own bank.

The Bitcoin whitepaper can be read here: bitcoin.com/bitcoin.pdf

When will these losers get banned for spamming?

>BTC will never be adopted without being a regulated bank. What could an investor hope for more than the blessing of the banks and governments?
You look at BTC as an investment vehicle. Notice how I never said anything about which one of BTC or BCH would succeed financially. I'm looking at Bitcoin as a revolution of money. That is the difference between you and me.
Also, if you want a controlled coin, go invest in Ripple.

None of you bring up any points.

Work on your reading comprehension.

>Implying nothing better is coming along and the current cryptoassets are the only viable options

nigga...half of Veeky Forums came from /pol/ and is posting that ironically because it's a meme

Would you feel better if it was an infograph instead?

I should have clarified, those 3 particular currencies might be replaced by alternatives, but those will be the general classes and I firmly believe XLM will hold its spot as the convenience cryptocurrency.

We have a free to join group for ALL like minded investors. There will be absolutely NO VIP/premium subscription membership B.S.

It will be FREE forever. The group is fun and also Crypto oriented with LESS Spam, would you like to join? We don’t need 15,000 people, 100 contributing traders is enough. I'm only asking people I think will bring value to the community

|discord| |dot| gg (/) WMwVeW5

Dude we aren’t guna buy your bags and pump this shit more so you can cash out back into the real bitcoin lel

> "The LN isn't a 2nd layer, it's really a new PoS fork of BTC."
So you admit that with the introduction of Lightning Network, you guys are creating a piece of shit fork. Why would we want a piece of shit fork of Bitcoin? When we can stay with the original Bitcoin (now called BCH) which has super low fees, is super fast, and doesn't need to be fixed/patched with LN or other bullshit, and doesn't need any of the regulation and corporate control that comes with LN etc.

You're basically trying to sell people a rotten meal full of flies and maggots in it, for a high cost, when people can get a normal, non-rotten meal, for free.

Just some research you limp dicked faggot. Blockstream main investor is the DCG (digital currency group) and when you look at their advisors and founders it's full of fucking jews, wall street big heads and bankers from the FED. You srsly think they want btc to replace banking? Think again.

>Why would we want a piece of shit fork of Bitcoin?
>When we can stay with the original Bitcoin (now called BCH)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>us smart people
You're literally doing exactly what described. Except there's nobody here to upboat you and this place is filled with people trained in the art of seeing through bullshit like yours. The more you/your cohorts try to support each other, the more obvious the charade becomes.

Wow look I found a picture of you.

delusional Bcore cucks want all opposition banned immediately. Fuck them, were takin it back wether they like it or not.

Most of you dont understand that Cash is not like other forks of Bitcoin, and there are many. Cash is the only one that can replace Bitcoin as they share the same Hashpower and Miners. No other fork of bitcoin comes close. Cash also remains true to the original vision and white paper and developers.

Because

bcash shills are literally the scientologists of cryptocurrency

hows todays dump going for your bags?

What makes BCorporate the "real" bitcoin?

No, Core Cult is very real and way bigger and more violent than Cashies could ever think of being. Even Roger and Craig state numerous time of continued death threats against them from your ilk.

unanimous consensus

WRONG! It's the price.

By god people here are so fucking stupid.

...

Leftists are always violent first.

hahahahaha
fuck off back to plebbit. it's funny how you fags show up here to shill and think anyone outside of your echo chamber cares about bcash or your blockstream conspiracies. keep holding that scamcoin user, see you at .9 sats soon

It's not cult. It never was a cult. It's people who believe their bags will be worth a lot more only if there's no competition.

>see you at .9 sats soon

That's a good thing for us, you dumb nigger. Although we all knew parity and beyond will be reached this year anyway.

nope, not a leftie. forgot to add also violence to their families too.

>becoming worthless is good for us, its part of rogers plan

the absolute state of bcash shills

cool story bro

How fucking dumb are you, nigger?

1 = 1 BTC

.9 = .9 BTC

BCH is currently at .144 BTC

The Enemy wants to change the whitepaper. Why? Because they absolutely HATE Bitcoin and hate what it's supposed to be.

obviously theres a zero missing there pajeet
hey, remember when bcash was .34 sats?

its worth less than half of that now.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
im done giving your shitcoin attention, you can keep samefagging with the other shills now

...

What zero?

>remember when price action happened

>keep samefagging
Do you even know what that means? We have IDs on this board, stupid faggot.

>your shitty pasta has been rebutted a million times
>"Work on your reading comprehension"

Last time your dumb asses predicted a flippening the $20k bull ran was about to start. Of course, during the bull market all of you cucks disappeared, now that we've been correcting you fucktards are out of your caves again, which is where you will return as we get closer to a new ATH, and so follows. This is to be rehashed a million times, like Mike Gavin's asshole.

They believe if they send their shills here and tell them to use "Veeky Forums language" it will make them blend in and make them seem like real people.

>too retarded to realize that BCH mooned harder than BTC from Nov 24th

kek, also idk why you think that's me. My name is David btw.

Bitcoin cash is proof that there was no consensus. if there was consensus BCH would never have been created.

Think on that for long enough and your view will dissolve. Which is how I know you won't think on it at all.

...

Peer to ((((Corporation running node))) to Peer is not Peer to Peer and certainly not cash, you muh whitepaper autists.

It's so obvious literally all cashies are redditors.

Why haven't you done this yet op.

Stop brigading our board. It's sad and pathetic and only makes people here hate your scamcoin even more.

Kys ASAP.

UASF caused Segwit. UASF is not consensus, that's why there was a chainsplit. It forced Segwit onto everybody and now we're here.

I don't see how larger gains is cope, but okay.

Non-mining nodes don't do dick or decentralize anything, you're a fucking idiot.

He was agreeing with me that the guy using "samefag" doesn't understand the term, again you're stupid.

Newfag detected. People holding bitcoin during the fork received equal amounts in BCH. That's how a fork works.

LN payments are encrypted you fucking brainlet. Even if payments had to go through a big super evil hub the hub literally couldn't know where payments come from or where they're going.

Kill yourself. End your brainlet life now.

Who the fuck cares? Do you even know what newfag means, newfag? Buy a noose, google how to make a neat knot and end it now. Thanks.

>nano and iota are the futtuuuurreee!!!

>LN payments are encrypted
Get a load of this retard. All businesses will have to comply with KYC. They won't accept privacy routed payments. The only work around for this is for you and a friend setup a Onion routed channel together and you route payments through him. You stay user, but he doesn't. So it doesn't actually help anyone because A) nobody will assume the risk of routing potentially illegal transactions and B) even if they do assume the risk, they're going to jail for falsifying KYC on top of an already illegal transaction.

>who cares kys
U mad bro?

>All businesses will have to comply with KYC. They won't accept privacy routed payments.

Just like no business accepts cash right? You're so fucking retarded I can't even find the proper adjective.

Using cash isn't the same as a payment processor, brainlet. That's why crypto doesn't require KYC now. jfc

The bankers and VC's pushing the blockstream plan have deep pockets, but they're not going to be able to outspend the entire global economy.

...

As if any of you can afford bitcoin cash.

Maybe as collectible on crypto.youcollect.co/

One of these CryptoCelebreties clones again....


Ripple > all

Western exchanges already do KYC. Stop making shit up, no one is buying it.

Still no rebuttals.

I posted my "pasta" once before(which was a different text that I typed on my phone, so it was lacking crucial points), and no one posted anything amounting to a rebuttal ever since. Please point me to a proper rebuttal or present one yourself.

>an exchange under KYC is the same as the entirety of Bitcoin being under KYC

>exchanges are the same as transactions on the network

EVERYDAY I'M SHUFFLING
>Noooo!!! MY COIN
WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>I'M TRYING TO SCALE BITCOIN YOU BIG DUMMY LN WILL NEVER WORK
SHHHRRRRRRRRRLLLP
>HEEEEEEELLLLP
WHIRRRRRR
NOOOOOOOO
[Braps]
[Walks away]

Such low effort.

i ask that in every coins telegram group to all the pajeets that want money. we seriously need to clean out the bootlickers across crypto who only want money. I suggest getting rid of fiat pairings soon and keep crypto as pure coins.

>prove bullshit wrong
>fail to comprehend
>"not rebutted"

try to comprehend context better - he was talking about the blockchain shills