What are some good books on toxic masculinity?

Not really, it's more about males who don't want/feel like having to live like the hypertrophic male stereotype (Chad, I imagine, could be a decent portmanteau) while not wanting to. I'd argue it's something that affects many people negatively.

>Laugh at how /r9k/ and related sites fuck up young men's lives.

You actually think that /r9k/ is the cause and not the symptom?

And people told me Veeky Forums was smart.

The gender wars dynamic of the 2010's has luckily enough not spawned much serious academia, mainly because it is being fought by incredibly stupid people who are twitter/tumblr/reddit/Veeky Forums addicts, not academics. If you find yourself literally getting angry about the proliferation of these ideas, and are not in a college class run by a post-structuralist, I would recommend pressing the x button at the top right.

There has however been some pretty laughable third wave feminist academia on the matter, exposed here: twitter.com/real_peerreview

As far as I'm concerned, toxic masculinity=red neck abusers and white collar types who dont hire women for management positions, not what you are talking about.

You actually don't realize that it is self-perpetuating cycle where both things are part cause and part effect?

And how the fuck could you think Veeky Forums is smart? How long have you been here?

It's a symptom all right, but going on that board will only worsen your life. In that respect, I think it's a cause of suffering.

Also,

To be honest, it feels good to play sports, shoot guns, chase pussy for fun and do over-the-top shit with your friends. I think people talking shit about it just don't understand.

That Twitter account is a god damn goldmine of lulz.

Yes, it does - I just think it's hrmful when you think about this way of life as something that you shluld by anny means do, a stereotype towards which you should always confront yourself. My point is, any of us should just be able to do whatever the fuck we feel like without these cultural images we feel to need to confront with.

The poorius incident of the poo in the night time

What you just said makes more sense than a "toxic masculinity" label though. Even within the US, different regions have distinctly different models of what is masculine, and trying to hammer everyone into that mold isn't healthy in any case.

Like, I know guys who are just gay as hell but grew up in rural Alabama, and guys who are outcasts from their liberal Long Island Jewish families for being super into football because to them a real man is into intellectual stuff and would never upset his mother with an activity where he could get hurt.

Pic related

I think the self perpetuating cycle is the interplay between tumblr, /pol/, /r9k/, r/redpill, and the vast twitter world that unfortunately many formerly reasonable journalists are starting to tap into for page clicks.

Its creeping into real life. I actually had one of my cousins call another of my cousins (one who isnt an internet type) a "shitlord" and a "fuccboi"

None. Masculinity is not toxic.

Not really. It refers to the anti-social aspects of masculinity which hurt men. The unmanliness of needing help is a great example, as the need to be tough is actually killing many men.

Why do I see so many people blaming 'toxic masculinity' for today's problems when it seems that your average (western) male is less traditionally masculine than ever? Like if we were diagnosing the problems of the 1950s, citing the hyper masculine values would seem quite valid, but you're telling me a WoW-playing, basement-dwelling, virgin autist like Elliot Rodger is emblematic of some form of masculinity? I don't get it, am I misunderstanding something here?

Do you like Fight Club a lot, didn't you?

Do you not know how to form a sentence or know a statement, don't you when?

Can someone point me to books that talk about what it means to be a male?
It's embarrassing that I have to read about it.

Le irony is le killing le me

>o'malley

Poo by Pooer McPoo is good.

what makes it more interesting is that he is a gay activist that feels that feminizing the gay movement has completely ruined a good thing

>I actually had one of my cousins call another of my cousins (one who isnt an internet type) a "shitlord" and a "fuccboi"

>Mfw living in spicland has kept me from these things due to language barriers.
At least for the moment--my eight year old nephew curses in English. Don't know whether to laugh or cry, honestly.

Knausgård has occasional reflections on modern masculinity in My Struggle.

>reflections on modern masculinity
I want something before we we're plagued by education.
it seems education teaches of everything except sexuality - and there aren't any role models for anyone anymore since everyone is working. It's fucked up.
Looks good, is it good?

I always thought Hemingway did a good job. Junger as well. Hollebecque when he isnt showing off his knowledge about some obscure work.

do you think that the Elliot Rodger-type makes up a large enough portion of today's society to cite it as the definition of modern masculinity?

>Looks good, is it good?
I think it was well done, but may not apply to NEET types, as its primary thesis is that men thrive in tribal groups, teams, military companies, competitive bodies, and begin to die off in their basement or in a closed marriage situation.

This book is beyond horse shit

No, he is an absolute outlier. Look at his bodybuilding.com posts. Its the people responding to him that are the vast majority.

And they arent all chads.

It's just a scapegoat for the feminist movement.

If anything there are a lot of things women can improve on by adopting """toxic""" masculinity. I fought dozens of kids as a young teen because they were bullying me over my race. Most of my best friends are people i fought in the past, and I've known them all for over almost 15 years.

When i see kids getting buttfrustrated over mundane shit like microaggressions and having panic attacks over nothing, i think a little bit of toxic masculinity would have been very productive in their upbringing.

>look it up
>recommended by rooshv
really?

And he's right. If you look at how gay men act, it's like a woman with a cock: all of the promiscuity and all of the resentment.

Does that thesis completely ignore craftsmanship and scholarship, y'know the things that were reserved for men for the last couple thousand years? I mean, sure military force was a big deal, but a big deal about heroism was that the man in question functioned on his own.

>look him up
>PUA

doesnt mean anything, and may be right. It didnt change my life but its def an attempt to properly describe/address "what is masculinity" (fuck the idea of toxicity in masculinity, post structuralism still hasnt had any great thinkers, just a bunch of assholes suffering from sour grapes)

>Does that thesis completely ignore craftsmanship and scholarship

He considers the ranking of men within tribalistic groups based on 4 key elements: courage, honor, strength, and mastery, which includes martial, artistic, and scholarly mastery

I can't read the shit on the read image. The person who made this needs to learn contrast, along with how not to draw like shit.

What makes you say that?
To be a NEET is completely opposite of masculinity anyway, so sounds about right. I know that much; men are suppose to be going for something.
>Junger
Looks interesting but is it work on war mainly? I don't think that's what masculinity is.
>Hemingway
I only read Old Man and the Sea. What books would you recommend?
>Hollebecque
Looks interesting. Thanks.

ha

left image*

>Looks interesting but is it work on war mainly? I don't think that's what masculinity is.
Storm of Steel is about war, but the brotherhood aspect.

Eumswil and Marble Cliffs are most certainly not. He is a very prolific author

>Hemingway
The Sun Also Rises and For Whom the Bell Tolls

>Hollebecque
The possibility of an Island and Submission are all about modern masculinity and how empty it is.

Everything Mishima has ever written

...

This, Sun and Steel esp is about finding the ultimate in masculine expression

>What kind of academia do you want?

>Hemingway
I think he was gay and/or had a micropenis

>micropenis

Average is like 4 inches erect anyways, way overblown.

lol retard. he wasn't gay and he had ED.

>based on 4 key elements: courage, honor, strength, and mastery
Interesting. I'd divide honor between stength and mastery (or rather discipline) though, if we're getting axiomatic.

That wasn't exactly my point however, but rather that men who are heroic are outside of the group, they're incomparable and unique, closer to a force of nature than a man. Does he address that kind of thing?

...

>the brotherhood aspect
will it teach me how to into brotherhood? I never had much of it when I was younger. I was a fuck up when I was younger.
>Mishima
I've been meaning to get into him more, but forgot/wasn't sure where to go after The Sailor who Fell from Grace into the Sea. Was enjoyable though, yet confusing. If you read it, does marriage really mean the death of a man? Or am I interpreting it wrong?

it's basically a fanfiction of the homosexual lifestyle, don't read much into it

Fanfiction can be interesting though.

He's definitely an extreme case, but I think modern men leans closer towards that extreme than they have in preceding decades. Also, blaming his actions on 'toxic masculinity' strikes me as nonsensical, since his temperament seems to me as inimical to traditional masculinity.

>am I interpreting it wrong
Yes. The sailor was the boys masculine dream. It was traditional, militaristic, daring. The boy loved the sailor. He loved him so much he brought the sailor to his mothers attention.

His mother made him quit being a sailor, and start working in her store selling women's clothes, WESTERN women's clothes. And when the boy was caught spying on them making love, and was not punished, he and his friends sentenced the sailor to death for being feminized, subjugated by the feminine, subjugated by western influence, and for losing the discipline of masculinity. Its as much about post-war Japan as about masculinity.

Lets remember that Mishima WAS Eliot Rodger tier nuts tho.

Lesson: Asian men are insane.

What in the hell is toxic masculinity?

>The sailor was the boys masculine dream
>boys
since it was the boys dream, is it to be discredited?
How can one go into marriage without being subjugated by the feminine?
I guess one would have the female be absorbed into their world instead. But it's a bit tragic since the sailor had no basis within land to absorb her.
Mishima was nuts because he lost what he admired in his society I suppose
>you'll never commit seppuku for ideals

Reported for misandry.

The most socially acceptable way to scream "RRREEEEEE NORMIES OUT" in public and academic circles.

I kek'd and it's true

I just have a hard time with everything because, as if the feminine wasn't confusing enough, I really don't know what masculinity is beyond vague actions and manners. And of course we shouldn't base ourselves in what we read, but I would like to have something to question. There isn't anything to question. Education and my upraising have me so disconnected as to what a male is.
I want out of the cycle of influence, but I don't know where to begin.

Where are all the women on Veeky Forums lately coming from? I'm not one of those who care in the context of this board, but the goodreads thread had like 8 female profiles, and this thread obviously has 2-3 women in it. Was the board linked somewhere?

There is a lot of straw-manning going on here.

Toxic masculinity usually refers to having to be unemotional to the point of repression, or solving problems with aggression and violence. Basically the impossibility of showing any weakness for fear of being picked on or called "gay"

It has nothing to do with traditionally manly pastimes like sport or eating a big steak or whatever.

Masculinity is not being a pussy. Masculinity is not fucking overthinking what masculinity is.

Lost a leg? Own your fucking wheelchair and don't let it stop you one bit from doing what you like/want/have-to-in-order-to-provide.
Blind?
Deaf?
Who gives a fuck. Disability is a feminine concept.
Fuck you,
Either live your life or kill yourself right now.

what's wrong with r9k. I thought it was original and shit

I'm far from a twink, but I'd have to argue that toxic ideas of masculinity do contribute to people eating shitty diets because "hurr durr that health food is for women and gays."

The great Pepe explosion was a high point for /r9k/. Fresh Pepes, tendies stories and such every hour for a month or so. It's pretty shit right now.

>What is masculinity
>lost a leg

I always thought of Masculinity as being embodied by the captain and mates and harpooners on the Pequod, with all their flaws and virtues.

I literally almost killed myself after spending 6 months on r9k for 8 hours a day. That place really does fuck with your head.

>Masculinity is not being a pussy
>Masculinity is not fucking overthinking what masculinity is.
again, that's very vague. Of course overthinking isn't helping me either, but I have no compass on how to act. I just need to question my actions more, I suppose. I know I do things wrong, I just don't know what. Although I know a base, and that's enough.
I think it's just a desire to have one concrete definition in things, since schooling has us that way.
>in-order-to-provide
I have a hard time finding any women I want to provide for.
>Moby-Dick
One of the books that was about masculinity, and it was beautiful. The funniest thing is that they just are, nothing more.
Ever heard of the theory that some ideas are infestations?

>lookism

Is far more common among women than men

>I have no compass on how to act. I just need to question my actions more,
no, [in order to be masculine] you need to make decisions and own up to whatever goes wrong as your own responsibility.

And I'd say that when this attitude grows to an unhealthy level, that's where you'd unironically start using the term 'toxic masculinity'

That's the premise of lookism.net, correct.

Women are awful

Supreme

...

...

BOASTING IN EPIC BREAD

we could have done better

>you need to make decisions and own up to whatever goes wrong as your own responsibility.
I already do this, but I want to start making the right decisions, or rather assess every situation vaguely.
Nice.

...

WOMEN ON SUICIDE WATCH

(not true by the way)

WEW LAD

thanks for ruining the thread

>Drop the zeroes inside my perimeter.
>Yes, all of them.

>I want to start making the right decisions
Well that's just being a wise person, not being masculine.

A much better thing to aspire to, though, than just raw masculinity, in my opinion. Wisdom you can never get enough of, whereas masculinity you really can overdo.

>"toxic masculinity" in OP
>not ruined from the get go
You're just a butthurt hag.

...

...

kys